Argumentative mother - find it awkward to be around her

[BlueberryBuffin]

Hi,
I'm not sure this is the right board, my DM is in her 70s. It's not an AIBU so much as techniques/support I need!

I live a few hours away from DM so don't see her much. But when I do I find her very argumentative if that's the right word.

Eg if we're talking about car seats for my DC she'll say they never had car seats in her day and everyone was fine. But I know if I had said car seats are a waste of money, why do we even bother she'd be outraged we wouldn't get one.

Eg I gave my DC plain yogurt mixed with fruit but some spoonfuls were just yogurt, some had more fruit. She made a face and said that yogurt was awful stuff, how could baby even eat it.

Eg we were talking about baby names, not my DC , just general conversation. Say the name "Doris" came up. I said Doris is not very popular these days for babies. She said well she knows three old ladies called Doris.

I say I'm going to buy X for myself. She says well why would you not buy Y?

I know these examples sound petty but it's most of the time . And it's her tone is challenging. Then I feel if I reply "yes but your 3 Doris examples are not newborn babies, they're 80 years old" or "well DC seems to be eating this yogurt just fine" or "I'm buying X because I prefer it to Y" then I sound like I'm the one being argumentative. And it also leaves scope for another comment from DM like "well she might be eating that yogurt but I'm sure she'd prefer a strawberry one, the poor child"

So I sit like a plank and say very little which is awkward and unfortunate.

If she has visitors (eg neighbours) she then complains about them afterwards and rolls her eyes at them saying AB or C.

My siblings seem to manage but they can be argumentative themselves. I'm not sure what I'm asking - maybe techniques to handle this that would allow me not to sit like a statue? And to want to spend time there?

At the moment my DM does not need care but would like company but as time goes by I'm sure she'll need more.

The answer is to not go there, don’t have any conversations where you know you will get an opinion or an argumentative answer.

If you have to see her, I'd probably talk about it. Is she the type who would start a row in an empty room? Tell her that.

if she doesn't change, then just say "mm" when she talks rubbish.

She's obviously bored! Try taking her out when you next visit and just ignore and change the subject as required.

@KangarooKenny
Thank you. I would love this option 😂
But I do feel it's important for my children to have a relationship with their DGM. She is a good grandmother and is kind in other ways. I don't think she realises she is argumentative.

In terms of not starting any conversations , you are right. That I suppose is my MO at the moment.

But every innocuous statement I make eg I'm going to buy X (for myself that she's never going to see or use) is met with a contrasting opinion. It would never even occur to me to tell someone they should buy Y instead.

It's literally anything. An alcoholic dies of cirrhosis of the liver and I say it must be terrible to be an alcoholic and DM says well she knows plenty of people who are alcoholics and lived til they were 90!
It's not like I'm debating the rights and wrongs of capitalism where there's room for debate!!

I can't predict the argument

Tell her to mind her own business. Bite back. My dad is the exact same, opinionated and gets snappy. I was basically conditioned to take it from childhood and say nothing. Now I've started telling him to shut up and if he goes too far, I leave and go quiet on him to get some space. I've noticed lately he's making some effort to be more civil. But basically vow to yourself that you won't take it anymore. You don't deserve that crap.

I do like the mmmm idea . I should discuss it I suppose though I hate conflict. Which makes the constant battle of conversation awkward in the first place.
A lot of it could be explained away by her as just her opinion. Like the yogurt.
I'd love a polite way of saying "who asked you?"

I have small DC who she loves seeing so she would prefer to have them in her house. We could definitely break up the visits with a trip to the park.
Any change of subject is a potential argument/negative comment trap!

Sorry, badly worded. I don’t mean don’t visit, I mean don’t go near those conversations that you know will end up negative.

Ah ok, 😁 upon re-reading I see exactly what you meant.

The issue I suppose is, that ANY conversation can unexpectedly turn negative. And even when I'm doing something entirely neutral and not even talking to her (giving the baby yogurt) DM makes an argumentative comment.

Or she says what are you buying and I say "new shoes" she'll say "well why would you not buy boots?" (for example). I think in a normal conversation I'd say to someone what are you buying, they'd say new shoes and I'd say "oh lovely" or "I heard X shop has nice shoes" or "are you going somewhere nice for lunch after shopping". I'd never think to interrogate them as to why they'd buy shoes and not boots.

I'm not starting conversations about what political party I'll be voting for next or saying Man Utd is the best team ever and she's an Arsenal supporter. It's literally anything

I'd recommend reading Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It might help you with some strategies to help it not get to you.

No answers, OP, but my DM is exactly the same. She's early 80s but looking back has always been like this to a degree.

I think it's a conversational habit as much as anything. She creates tension on the conversation to maintain traction in it. I think it's a way to keep it surface level while maintaining conversation - somehow she hasnt learned the skills to really connect so setting up a pointless argument by being oppositional keeps it going and protects her subconsciously from intimacy.

Every coat I put on is too hot or too light, my DSis wanting to discuss whether to stop her part-time study course at the level she's about to reach or continue for another 2 years to the max qualification was told she'd be a quitter, sll management is bullshit (I'm a manager) even her DGCs are 'noisy brats' when having (loud) fun.

She loves us deeply and is generous and interested, but it's so bruising. Depending on my resilience at the time, I either 'hmm' it away, carry on as if she hasn't tried to yank it off course, or, when I'm at my best, respond with interest about why she thinks that.

@schmalex thank you, I will send order that book
@WishIWasACavewoman yes, I think that it's a conversational habit rather than her true opinion. Your use of the word "oppositional" is a better choice than my "argumentative"
I will read your post a few more times and consider the underlying psychology

I think it's a conversational habit as much as anything. She creates tension on the conversation to maintain traction in it. I think it's a way to keep it surface level while maintaining conversation - somehow she hasnt learned the skills to really connect so setting up a pointless argument by being oppositional keeps it going and protects her subconsciously from intimacy

Thank you. You have just explained my late mother to a T. EVERYTHING became an argument, of course she was always right, and pointing out she wasn't was met with a snapped 'Don't start on me!' Then she moaned that we never told her anything. It was exhausting and frustrating - I don't think I ever had a meaninful conversation with her.

I can't really help but my mother is like this too, also mid 70s. You're not alone.

As others have said, I think it's her way of having a conversation. I don't think my Mum realises she does it but it's so bruising and wearing.

Like you, I noticed it most when my children were small (they are both teens now), perhaps because I had the least energy to deal with it and most wanted a supportive mother at that time.

Now my Dad is retired I notice her talking to him like this and he is noticeably happier when out without her. Its really sad.

What would happen if you just agreed with her?
Kind of like 'gosh, I didn't look at it that way, I see what you mean..more tea?'

Try the broken record technique - repeating the same thing without explanation or justification, with some supporting phrases to mix it up. Find a few phrases, and repeat them whenever she says something combative. Let’s say your your phrases are “That’s what I/she likes”, “Thats what I’ve decided to do” and as a general catch-all “Oh well”, perhaps accompanied by a shrug. For example:

You: I’m going to buy some new shoes
DM: Why don’t you get boots?
You: I’m going to buy some new shoes - that’s what I’ve decided to do.
DM: But boots would be much better
You: Oh well.

DM: why don’t you give her strawberry yogurt instead of that muck?
You: that’s what she likes
DM: she hasn’t even got any fruit in that bit, and anyway, yogurt is disgusting stuff
You: it’s what she likes
DM: Surely she’d prefer a __
You: No - this is what she likes
DM: But why? Yogurt isn’t real food.
You: Oh well. It’s what she likes.

You get the idea. She can’t argue with you if you aren’t arguing. The caveat is, you don’t try to change her opinion. Just ignore it.

My mum (78) became very judgmental, quite suddenly, about 6 months ago. I wonder if there is a medical cause, given how quick then change was.

If I psychoanalysis her, I think I can identify the cause - a specific event happened where she felt judged. She's never been one to behave in a way to feel judged before (shes a kind, selfless person), but this event I told her that I thought her response was out of order (ie I judged her).

Since then, she projects her judgment onto me. So she will be argumentative and confrontational with anything she thinks us not the way she'd do it.

In terms of dealing with it. Initially I challenged back every time. But that just created more and more tension until one day she yelled at me thst I was being condescending and then started crying. It wasn't nice. So that didn't work out well.

Now I adopt a "smile and redirect" outlook. I keep conversations as non-challenging and benign as possible. If she goes off on one with a "My opinion is right" tangent, I stop engaging. Smile, give no opinion either way (nodding or agreeing to keep the peace only encourages), then change the subject.

There is often nothing to agree with. Though I suppose I could...

me: I'm going to buy shoes
DM: why would you buy shoes, why would you not buy boots?
The old me: because I've decided that shoes are right for me for these three reasons (feeling defensive)
The new me : good idea. Maybe I will

Me: very few babies are called Doris these days
DM: well I know three people called Doris
The old me: either ends conversation or says "yes but your three Dorises are 80, not newborns"
The new me : is that right? (In an interested tone of voice)

Yes, I will definitely try this.
A few non-committal, non- confrontational phrases are just the thing

Also - I never try to change her opinion! Often if I agree she'll further change her mind

Eg
Me: what a shame John died of cirrhosis of the liver. Terrible to be an alcoholic
DM: yes well I know plenty alcoholics who lived till the age of 90
Me: oh right. And imagine, if they hadn't drunk so much they might even have reached 100
DM: who'd want to live to be 100?!

No matter what I would add, she would find a way to be oppositional. The only way not to get an argumentative answer is to say nothing

It is utterly wearing, isn't it? My dh, lovely in many ways, has a tendency to treat any conversation as a debate, where he feels obliged to take the opposite view, no matter what.

Also something DM did 'to get a debate going.' No mum, if you are going to shout people down and not listen to them, that's not a debate.

Me: very few babies are called Doris these days
DM: well I know three people called Doris
The old me: either ends conversation or says "yes but your three Dorises are 80, not newborns"
The new me : is that right? (In an interested tone of voice)
Love this. Give it a try! 😂

Just one theory....

Could it make sense that she is very needy for your attention when you are in the room with her?

Whatever is taking your attention gets in the way of your attention being focused solely on her. And that annoys her.

Therefore, rather than get angry with you for turning your attention away from her, she gets angry with the thing/topic/opinion that you are currently holding.

Therefore any you say you like, she is jealous of that and needs to insult that?
So if you say 'oh I see this lovely cream kettle here on the Argos website!'
She says 'what do you want cream for? Cream is a stupid colour for a kettle!'

Non-committal, non-interested, non-answers is a way to go.

Hmm.
Interesting.
Probably.
Really?
OK
and if you're feeling brave... 'I'm sure you're right'.

Mine is the same. I've become very vague and say "oh" and "mmmmm maybe" a lot and she hates it. She really does bait me (and DC) for any type of argument / disagreement.

It's tiresome.

She doesn't do it with my siblings or nephews. Just me. I grew up trying to keep her happy but not anymore