Can't claim any credit I'm afraid - I think it was Bink who started the very first 'dreamers' thread. But it is a great title isn't it?

No idea about the rest of the thread. But just had to post to congratulate you on the marvellous thread title.

Update after ages - don't know if anyone still looks at this. DS1 is now 8 and was diagnosed with dyspraxia a month ago. We're just about to have a private appointment with an OT. School being a bit more proactive this year - partly the dx, partly the fact he has a great teacher who actually DOES stuff rather than just talking about it.

Most importantly the dx has made DS1 more confident - he just says that it has 'explained this about myself'.

How are all the other dreamers doing?

Duh! Ignore that. It was on the previous page.

I'm wondering and so is DH now. Someone told me that his new school does a screen for various types of 'dys-' including dyspraxia and dysgraphia, so I'm not sure if we should wait until September and see if they pick anything up.

Remind me, as it takes a long time to go through this thread - did you instigate your DS's assessment yourself in the end?

He could be singersgirl. Certainly explains DS's quirkiness and I was simiarly told I was mad for thinking it about him for so long. Could you take him for an assessment just to rule it out if nothing else?

DS1's trumpet teacher just asked me today if I though he might be mildly dyspraxic. I said that I'd thought so for years but everyone else thinks I'm barmy. He can't clap in time at all - he can hum in time and play music in time, but can't clap!

Meant to say, it has a big effect on writing too - hence your DD's messy writing possibly, my DS's unusual pencil grip and 'spidery' writing.

G&T it could be that your DD is a bit SPDish. My friend's DS is and sound's like your DD, esp the falling off chairs etc . He has proprioception immaturity (as does my DS) and the brushing is the key thing for this. Just to explain briefly: proprioceptive information is received through the muscles and joints and helps a person to be aware of his position in space and the position of body parts in relation to each other. It is necessary in fine postural adjustments which assists in keeping balance and coordinating movements. When it is out of sync children can be a bit 'all over the place', sort of clumsy, possibly sensory seeking, distracted by classroom noise etc, usually bright.

Other things (which you can do at home) are heavy pushing and pulling, being squashed under heavy cushions, snake-like crawling . Trampolines are excellent for proprioceptive input. Have just ordered an 8ft one today. And a therapy ball which is a bit like one of those birthing balls for DS to roll around on!!

BOGOF, I hope this answers your questions too

CastlesintheAir what does the brushing and pushing eventually achieve? I'm really interested as I think my ds2 has sensory issues

Hi Castles
Thanks for your reply. My dd doesn't get dizzy and isn't scared about falling (good job really!), but does fall off chairs for no reason (probably at leats once every meal time), falls over her own legs, has problems when trying to do things with both hands - like for eg, holding her bag and putting her drink in it - she gets all confused about which hand should do what. Her writing is very messy and she is always accidentally scuffing things up, dropping things.

I don't think she has dyspraxia, but I do think she is unusual amongst her peers for this. This, and her inattention and dreaminess tend to be overlooked (as you said earlier in the thread), because she is achieving well at school - top sets for everything etc. However, I see that she is not like her (younger siblings) and would like to see if there is anything I can do at home to improve these issues.

I am glad things seem to be improving for your DS

No it's a plastic thing the OT gave me. Quite small with plastic bristles. A bit like a nail brush!

Castles, that's great news. Do you just use a hairbrush?

G&T, I think the biggest benefit is the brushing. It only takes a minute 3 x a day. Just his arms, back of legs and back. We also do other things but they are quite specific to DS's dx. He spends an hour with the OT each week (without me) but I know she does a lot of swinging, spinning and bending backwards exercises. She also does handwriting with him but again that is specific to his weird pencil grip. DS is stimulation seeking (fidgets) but also get very easily dizzy and is (or was) very tense and frightened of hurting himself/falling. If your DD is like this I can tell you more. Don't want to waffle on otherwise!

Wow Castles! That sounds impressive! If you get a chance, could you give us more details on the exercises your DS is doing - I saw you posted some earlier, but didn't quite understand how they worked. My dd has several similarities to your DS, so if you could, I'd be really grateful (I used to post here about my dd, but namechanged ages ago and haven't done recently. She is 8, bright but dreamy, falls off chairs, messy with food, voracious reader, forgetful but delightful )

Just an update on the OT if anyone is 'watching'. It has really been quite remarkable to see the difference in DS in only 3 weeks since we have started the OT programme. He swam alone for the 1st time on Friday, walked along a high beam alone and unprompted. He did his maths homework in 2 minutes last week (he is good at maths but usually takes 10 minutes) with no fidgeting. He also slept for 3 hours yesterday afternoon (unheard of and he is 7!) I'm guessing because he is so relaxed. Am impressed

You have to alternate singersgirl, so left, right, left so to speak. The OT gave me a special plastic brush for the brushing and you have to be quite firm which helps if they are ticklish like DS. He was very cooperative today esp likes the pushing against each other bit. Hadn't realised how strong he is when he wants to be It's also cumulative so pointless unless you can do it 3x a day for a week.

Mmm. I might try with DS1 if I can get him to co-operate with being brushed 3 x a day.

Do you have to alternate the colours when pointing at the circles ie red, green, red, green, or do you do them each 10 x randomly?

Don't worry about the retained reflexes until you've got time.

Hi just a quick update as finally saw OT today. DS is highly sensory seeking (fidgets is best example). I have to brush his arms, legs and back quite firmly with a 3 x daily then do pushing against each other to count of 10. I also have to put 2 different coloured circles on the wall behind him and get him to turn and look and point at them quickly 10 x once a day. Will let you know how I get on! Anyone want to join?

Singersgirl, will come back later about retained reflexes. Sorry not to have done so before but got distracted.

hi singersgirl, we'd probably move dd as soon as we can - she might even start the new school after this coming holiday, to get a bit used to it before the big summer hols. I just hope we are doing the right thing, I think we are but you can never be sure! We've talked to dd and she doesn't seem to mind the idea of moving. Hopefully we can get her in for a taster session to see how she likes it.

Castles, I would love to know about the retained reflexes so I can test DS1! Have you got exercises? Let us know how you get on.

Paddington, the thread is very long, and I too keep it on my watch list. If you have a few hours to spare, it's an interesting read. Every so often I do a search on Mumsnet for something (usually to do with DS1) and lo and behold, it's already come up somewhere on this thread.

It's such a shame there's no role play etc in your DD's classroom; it's so important for little children to play. Would you move DD from next term?

hi guys, this thread is very interesting - although I've not managed to read all of it!
we are considering moving dd to a different school, one which will think of some of her qualities (eg great imagination) as a plus rather than a minus. Went to see the head of new school today, both dh and I really impressed. Their infant classrooms still have role play stuff and toys (dd's current has none of this, in fact it's like a junior classroom).
dd's current teacher has nothing good to say about her, and now dd has stopped participating in lessons completely. Is not progressing at all. It's a very academic school, and much more is expected in yr 2 - not sure dd will cope with it.
Interestingly, the school we went round today has had a few parents from dd's current school enquiring!

Just seen this. Thanks Sphil! We just saw our OT today. DS has both 'forms' of retained reflex which come under the vestibular system and proprioception problems as well. It all makes so much sense and it is so interesting. If anyone wants me to expand in lay-mans terms let me know! I can't wait to get started now

Welcome paddingtonbear. I keep this thread on my watch list as we are a patchy bunch of contributors! Although, it's been a tremendous support and source of information for me.

Only a week late

OT talked about retained ATNR (Assymetric Tonic Neck Reflex) and STNR (Symmetric Tonic Neck Reflex). ATNR affects the ability to use both hands together, cross the midline etc. and STNR affects posture, causes fidgetting etc.

Hi singersgirl! Yes we went to the hospital yesterday. They said dd's hearing is fine. She cooperated pretty well during the test, although in the doctor's office afterwards she wanted to know what every bit of equipment did! The doctor said she is still young (not 6 yet) and would probably improve in time. I think I will still make an appt with my own GP though, explain to him what the school have said and see from there.

Oh, sorry, Paddington, I didn't 'see' you there. Welcome to the thread. It does come and go in fits and starts depending on when people have stuff to post. Did you have your hospital appointment and have you got the results yet?

oh dear I seem to have killed the thread now!

hi all,
I may have posted on this thread before a long time ago, but I can't find it now. Hope it's not too late to join.
we're just starting out on the route of trying to find out if dd has anything wrong, or if it's just 'her'. Her school repeatedly say she has poor concentration, doesn't listen, is in her own 'world', and so far her academic achievement has been poor - she's pretty much bottom of the class. She gets a bit of extra help but not much at present. She's started to notice she's way behind most of her classmates, and keeps talking about it. Nothing we or the school have done so far have made any difference (dd is in yr 1 but has been the same since nursery). Her speech has never been great. She's had a couple of bouts of glue ear, and we're due to go back to the hospital next Monday (she's never had grommets). After that, I'll try our GP.
dd is a lovely girl though, (I would say that!), loving, has a great imagination. She likes to please but can't focus for long!
This must be my longest ever mumsnet post!

That sound's like it. Looks like I need to read up on retained reflexes!

Ah - our OT report went on about retained reflexes too. Will dig it out later - she sent a useful explanation too. Am sitting on edge of running bath typing this as DCs run amok in the garden .

Maybe he has those 'retained primitive reflexes' or whatever they call them that seem to be important. Sorry not to be more use...

He's so physically not ahead too. Maybe it was a typo or it's the discrepancy between mental/physical ability.

Thanks singersgirl. It also says he has reflexes of a 2.5 year old, so maybe that is it

Well, I don't know, but I'll bump it for you. If nearly 8 is the lowest, it sounds fine, doesn't it? It's even a bit ahead physically. Clearly it shows he's very bright too. Hope someone with some answers comes along!

Got the OT report. It's completely baffling in some respects for example, DS has an intellectual age of 13 in some areas whereas he has a physical age of nearly 8 in some areas (he's 7.2). Soooooooooooo, what's the problem I ask myself? Going to see the OT to talk about it next week but just thought I'd run it by here in case anyone is around.

I caught DS doing press-ups (albeit with feet on the sofa) this morning, so that's a tick for gross motor skills then

" I hate keep having to go in..." Eh, what? It must be late

We're private too. I'm not managing to do the programme every day - but I make myself feel better by counting things he's done voluntarily. So for example yesterday he built a Bionicle, so I ticked off fine motor skills!

DS1's school have agreed to do a weekly OT programme with him - it happened last week and then this week the TA concerned only took two of the boys and not DS1. So not sure what's happening there at all. I hate keep having to go in and push - especially as I know the SEN dept is very busy with children like DS2!

Sphil, we are going down the private route and I guess that makes a difference to the number of visits [cynical emoticon]. Although going down the NHS route where we live involves an 18 month wait (min) then 6 visits to school a year (mostly to assess apparently). A friend who is doing the same as us with her DS is finding it very hard to do the exercises at home, along with all their other commitments. It's worrying me. I'm hoping I can get DS's school to incorporate some into his day ...

Gosh - really? Our OT has given us a programme to do every day at home and school are doing a once-weekly programme for him, in a small group. She just said to see her again in five or six months - but maybe that's because we haven't had a formal assessment yet?

Totally agree Bink. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the 90% (surely?) of un-natural athletes were catered for? I always think of lottery funding/the olympics whenever I hear of new sporting initiatives for children. Cynic that I am.

Love the sound of your school's sports Sphil - just what DS needs. I don't know about the programme yet. The OT is sending a report and then seeing us for a talk in 2 weeks. However, my friend who recommended saw her every week for 6 months. Gulp!

Thanks for the update, Castles. One year to get major improvements sounds very positive and also a confirmation of dyspraxia means that, if necessary, you can start to get accommodations for exams etc at a later stage. Let us know how the programme goes and how DS feels about it.

Totally agree about the sports. DS1 is keen as mustard on football right now but there just isn't anwyhere that a keen but not really very good 10 year old can play. He plays playground football every day and every day comes home with his confidence in pieces and some new story of something awful someone's said to him.

DS1's school sports is good in this respect - they have an afternoon a week where they learn a particular sport for half a term, then change. It's very much based on breaking down the sport into its separate skills, teaching them in isolation and then putting them together - which is just what DS1 needs. I don't think he'll ever be an athlete - but he has improved hugely as a result of being taught like this. It's taught by local sports coaches while the teachers have their PPA time - and contrary to what I expected, they seem to have been very sensitive with DS1 and the less sporty ones - he's always getting 'ticks' for good team playing, effort, sportsmanship etc.

Castles - well we've always said our children were alike! As you know, the OT has said that DS1 is almost certainly dyspraxic and we only need the formal assessment to confirm it - so you've been quicker off the mark than us with that one. What sort of programme has she given your DS?

I agree absolutely Bink. Everytime some new 'sport initiative' is announced funded by wads and wads of cash - locally or nationally - I glimpse up hoping it might be something that for once might target all the children who are not natural athletes. But no, it's always more money to fund activities for the select few who show particular talent for basketball, football, tennis ... whatever!

Hi castles - I've been a bit absent, I'm sorry, but I've just seen your post. I completely understand about the missed-time feeling; and even more so about the lack of priority these physical difficulties seem to get. If only one of these sports-club-franchises would just realise the gap in the market for supporting, nurturing and very gently bringing forward non-sporty children (like Kip McGrath say, but for motor skills), instead of just all competing for the fleet & nimble cohort (and therefore contributing to the vicious circle our children are in: not being able to do playground football, so withdrawing from physical activity, so getting even less able to join in).

As suspected, DS was diagnosed with dyspraxia this morning. I feel a bit sad at the time that has been wasted but also quite relieved. I've been saying it for years but when children are quite 'capable' (especially academically) it seems to get dismissed. Or so it appears. We have gone down the private route as the NHS one is almost non-existant round here. On a positive note, she thinks about 1 year to get him 'fixed'.

Singersgirl, the note story made me chuckle. So pleased he didn't follow it through. They are all so alike.

Off to rob a bank now to pay for treatment ...

at the goodbye note. DS1 can be melodramatic but his 'failed human being' comment was said in a very matter-of-fact way.

I think we will go ahead with the assessment - he seems to want it and school are more supportive now they've got the initial OT report. We'll wait until he's been doing the OT programme for 6 months - which will be August. It'll be interesting to see the outcome - his motor skills seem to be improving quite quickly to me and we've only been doing the exercises for two months.

Oh, Sphil, I'm sorry to hear that your DS is feeling so low. Is he given to melodramatic utterances or is it all just resigned and downcast? Will you go ahead with the assessment, do you think?

DS1 is a real melodrama queen and is always saying things that sound heartrending but in context often make DH and me laugh. Only last week we found a pencilled note from him saying "I am leaving because I keep messing things up. I am only taking a few clothes, some comics and a book. Goodbye." He'd obviously forgotten about it, though, because he was kicking a ball about in the garden.

I'm also quite hard on him (and DS2) re homework, music practice etc. He quit orchestra because he didn't want to miss playtime.

Yes, I think we have a bit of that too. I am quite hard on him, I suppose - I crack the whip a bit with homework, spellings etc - and I wonder whether the 'life's so hard' comments are a delayed response to this sometimes. I also think that DS2 plays a part. He's autistic, and as a result gets quite a bit of attention and also cut a lot of slack - so DS1's comments could sometimes be attention-seeking (for perfectly understandable reasons).

DS1 was a very musical toddler and then decided to eschew all things musical until this year, when a great music teacher at school has turned him on to the recorder and singing. I am very very gently trying to encourage this - I also think it'll be very good for him - so am crossing fingers that lessons are in school time!

That sound's familiar Sphil I also suggested a musical instrument (he is very musical) and he didn't want to miss out on playtime either despite frequently relaying the agony of playtime to me. I have decided that things cannot be so bad and that he has realised what a pushover I am and has learnt to ham it up hence the "world is such a hard place" comments. I hope!

Oh I didn't think it was flippant at all - I laughed! It's possible that other children say things to DS - I did ask him and he said they call him 'wrong writer' and 'sleepy head'. But he followed it up with saying that this 'doesn't happen very often'. So it's hard to know what to think.

He is such a contradiction. The other day he was going on about how he's 'unlucky' because he's 'picked on' by other children in the playground. Then yesterday I was trying to persuade him to learn a musical instrument next year and he was adamant he didn't want to do it if the lessons are at play time. Playing devil's advocate, I mentioned the 'being picked on' conversation, to which he replied.
'Sometimes it's fun being picked on. I can run away and then all my friends come and help me and it's like two teams, one against the other'

Sorry if I sounded flippant Sphil. Was not intentional. I always make a joke out of things - my defence mechanism. I meant to ask: have other children being saying stuff to DS at school? As I am pretty sure this is where my DS's low self-esteem comes from - getting it wrong in the playground/games etc, general wonky/dreamer moments and then being laughed at or other children getting annoyed with him.

Oh sphil, I am sorry to hear that But once more, our DS's are spookily linked and I was just searching out this thread to post on it. DS has been saying frequently how he is rubbish at everything (sporty) before he has even tried and since the start of term has said a few times "I wish I didn't find the world so hard". I am slightly relieved however to discover they are (probably) doing their SATS at the moment ... which explains a lot

On the assessment front, I think getting a formal assessment is a good thing. Again, coincidentally, DS is being assessed on Monday by a paed OT as I really want to get to the bottom of things. My friend's DS (mildly similar to DS) has recently been dx with SPD and has improved so much in 6 months with exercises/intervention that he has been discharged!

I keep thinking of singersgirl's DS and his recent success and that really keeps me going

Bit of a sad update from me - since my last post in March about the informal OT assessment, DS1 has now decided he would like to be formally assessed for dyspraxia.When I asked him why he said 'So I won't feel like a failed human being' .

The thing is, he has made so much progress recently, with all elements of his motor skills - and his teacher is very good at recognising this (as, I think, are we) - so I am a bit puzzled and upset as to why he feels a failure.

Thanks Sphil, that's good advice. Yes it's very hard to get her attention verbally, and I've tried everything - shouting, whispering, singing! Doing the 1-2-3 thing usually gets her attention, eg. "DD I'm going to count to 3 and then I want you to tell my what you want for breakfast...1...2...3" It's the 1-2-3 that get her attention, so a single word prompt might do the same, I'll try that.

Also I like the sound of physical prompts. I find if I take hold of her arm and try and make eye contact with her, it's slightly easier to get her attention (still takes a while though!)

Thanks Sphil, that's good advice. Yes it's very hard to get her attention verbally, and I've tried everything - shouting, whispering, singing! Doing the 1-2-3 thing usually gets her attention, eg. "DD I'm going to count to 3 and then I want you to tell my what you want for breakfast...1...2...3" It's the 1-2-3 that get her attention, so a single word prompt might do the same, I'll try that.

Also I like the sound of physical prompts. I find if I take hold of her arm and try and make eye contact with her, it's slightly easier to get her attention (still takes a while though!)

Hi ChiefFairy
One tip I've been given recently is to prompt physically rather than verbally - so if you want her to return to her seat at a meal time you would perhaps tap the table rather than say ' Sit up DD'. The reason for this is that children can become very dependent on verbal prompts and a physical prompt is easier to fade out than a verbal one. Or if you do have to prompt verbally, keep it to a single word.

I have to say I'm not very good at it - tend to gab on with the best of them - but when I do, it really works (for both dreamy DS1 and DS2 who has ASD)

I've just found this thread again after Parents Evening where DD1's teacher described her as the dreamiest child she's ever taught! She also thought the fact that she is dreamy and bright was a weird combination. DD1 is in Year 2 now and her teacher seems to be finding her rather frustrating. Although I find her less frustrating now, I think she's calmed down quite a bit and doesn't get as "hyper" as she used to.

The dreaminess, lack of concentration, and getting easily distracted are still big issues, but I think we've just got used to the way she is and how to handle her. For example, we have to clear the dining table of all distractions before she sits down to eat, and then we have to keep her on task frequently throughout the meal, reminding her to stay in her seat quite often. She's still clumsy and can go from sitting on a chair to falling into a heap on the floor quite easily and with no explanation.

I guess I've just got used to having to ask her to do things 7 or 8 times

Any tips on getting dreamers to focus in the classroom or at home? I think we probably do too much for her (as it's easier than trying to get her to do them herself) but that probably isn't doing her any favours in the long run.

The other problem we have is that she can talk to us and her friends in a very rude disrespectful way, but she doesn't seem to realise it. Today she got sent out of the classroom for shouting in her friend's face. Does anyone else have that problem? It doesn't really fit with the gentle dreamer type but she's always been stroppy.

Sorry this is so long but it's been a while!

Well, DS1 is exactly the same - not quite bad enough, somehow, but lots of traits: poor pencil grip, which I think is irremediable now, slightly odd running gait, clumsy, late to ride a bike and to use cutlery, difficulty chewing, problems with things like laces....

Sorry, rushing out now, but wanted to chime in as it sounds very familiar!

Has anyone got any tips for helping improve DS's poor pencil grip? I've bought the triangular pencils but I think he needs something thicker.

I've started thinking about dyspraxia again. Sometimes I just wish I wouldn't think . He ticks so many boxes: not great at riding a bike, poor pencil grip, swimming (just been reading about it - arrrgh!), fussy eater ... but still not nearly enough.

castles, I just found the thread again. Thanks for letting me know it had picked up.

I went to an Autism symposium on Wednesday and it was very interesting on many levels. I deal with these issues professionally and with ds1. Of course, I was constantly having to say "Well, we only have a diagnosis of Sensory Processing Disorder" while noting that ds1 fit in all sorts of categories that were being discussed including but not limited to sleep and gut issues. I still do not know whether or not I want to pursue a formal diagnosis of Asperger's/HFA but I do want to find out if there are any underlying problems with his GI functions.

Oh, and ds1 is always telling me that he can't sleep b/c his eyelids don't shut or that he sleeps with his eyes open.

We've had a lot of success with the sleep issues by using a book recommended on another thread here - What To Do When You Dread Your Bed. It's a programme you work through with your child - the sort of thing that is just up DS1's street. He's now generally asleep within 30 mins of going to bed, rather than the two hours of tossing, turning and muttering we were getting a month ago.

Castles, fingers crossed for your DH's job.

SS, that's interesting thanks. I really don't think the 8+ is a runner for us as 1. we can't afford it (and DH is probably going to lose his job tomorrow) 2. DS has terrible writing partly due to poor pencil grip (dyspraxia alarm bells are ringing) which we are correcting but it could take 2 years and 3. I really don't think he's up to it. Yes, he has the smarts but it's everything else, the 'dreamer' stuff. Plus I really like where he is and he's very happy there.

Sphil, wow! though I'm not surprised at the conversation ... again something I can see us having with DS next year

Bink, I agree, tiredness has a lot to answer for. DS will happily stay up until 10pm but if I force him to bed nearer 7pm he's often asleep quickly.

Thanks for all your congratulations; I feel like the mother of the bride . DS1 tonight has been weepy that we have, as of today, accepted this school and thus have had to decline 2 others we all really liked but were not nearly so easy to get to ("But I saw X School first and perhaps I don't really want to go to Y School...")

Of course, for your DS, Castles, 8+ is possibly worth trying as they have a much bigger intake than at 11; my DS1 would definitely not have been up to it at that age. I'm now going to regret not trying DS2 this year at the same time (though our bank account is not).

Apparently, the school screens all new entrants for learning difficulties, including dyslexia, dysgraphia and dyspraxia, so it will be really interesting to see if they pick up on anything. His writing is terrible, but he's been performing too well to be on the radar at primary apart from having 'handwriting club'.

Good to hear all your updates too. Sphil, your conversation with your DS1 does sound amazing - what a lot of self-awareness - and well done with the swimming. Let us know how all the exercises go on.

Bink, hope your blip irons out quickly. We've been very lax on bedtimes here and DS1 is very surly in the mornings but bouncing around like a jack-in-the-box come 9.30pm.

Oh WOW Singersgirl, fantastically well done to ds1. That is superb. Well done well done - can't think of how else to put it - also, of course, sorry that I'd missed this when you first posted it!

(We were going along OK, but today has been a big ole blip. I got a call from school to tell about (some of the, not all; it turned out there was more) blip, which involved the teacher slightly anxiously saying that they'd dealt with it at school, with him being frantic about how disappointed I'd be, and perhaps I shouldn't be overly cross with him at home. And then when I got home just after half-six he'd already put himself to bed & was asleep! So maybe I am thinking we just need to completely rethink bedtimes)

Fantastic news SG - well done to DS1.

Update from me too. OT last week didn't do formal assessment but is pretty sure that DS1 is dyspraxic. He was reading a book about Aspergers in the waiting room and following a lengthy discussion about the autistic spectrum on the way home, complete with diagrams drawn on the car windows, has decided that he might have Aspergers! Seemed very cheerful about it - talked very openly about feeling different and seemed reassured about a possible explanation. We talked about the pros and cons of labels (it really was an amazing conversation to be having with a 7 year old )and decided (as a three) that he should do the OT exercises given to us and go back to her in six months for a review. We'll seek a formal assessment of dyspraxia then if we feel he needs it. As far as the AS goes, I don't know. He hasn't mentioned it again - and certainly when I look at the diagnostic criteria, almost all of his traits are the ones that are the same for AS and dyspraxia, iyswim.

Meanwhile (since my last post) he has learnt to swim and received Work of the Week award at school for the very first time. So lots of positives here too

Wow, that is impressive SS. Well done to your DS. And you of course DS's maths teacher of sorts suggested we put him up for the prep school the year after next when he will be 8 which caused me to break out in a cold sweat - for several days - but I think we will try and hold off until the 11+. Am really chuffed for you.

Thanks for your congratulations; I've been so worried at various points about him that I still couldn't quite believe it when he got all the offers, particularly when the head of said school called us personally to let us know. I think the prep school, which DS1 will join for 2 years, has been mentioned by us on other threads; it's on the river south of Hammersmith Bridge. Not such a tiny hint really....

Of course now I can worry over whether we've done the right thing, whether he'll keep up and whether he'll be chucked out in 2 years' time for not making the grade! But, oh, his grandma will be proud.

Excellent news SG. Really delighted for you all! He sound's so like DS it gives me hope for us in a few years. Are you able to drop a tiny hint as to the school? I think I can guess but am being particularly nosey as the prep school has been mentioned to us a lot recently re DS. I think we live quite near to you. We've talked about this before - I'm not a weirdy stalker!!

Congratulations SG's DS1

OK, this is an unbelievably smug update, but I thought people on this thread would appreciate it. DS1 has done brilliantly in his 11+ entrance exams and got offers at all the schools he tried for, including one of the most academic and highly regarded (and expensive!) boys' schools in SW London. Other parents tell me they 'do' quirky kids, so looks as if we will be digging deep into our pockets....

Makes up for the fact that he was one of only 3 children in his class thrown off the cycling proficiency course for wobbling, and for the nudges and winks I saw some of his classmates giving each other the other day as he said something typically DS1-like.

I'm sure he'll still be the subject of nudges and winks, even at a new school, but I'm so pleased for him that he has managed to harness his ability and his charm to such good effect.

That's interesting, DS has been a bit arsey (for want of a better word) after school recently. I hadn't thought about the link with not being able to get to sleep (duh) up until now. His behaviour is great at school so he's probably bottling it up.

Sorry X posted! Thanks for asking Bink - he's now in a knee to ankle cast and can hobble about inside, but still has to use the wheelchair outside and at school. It's being removed next Wednesday - can't wait! A strange thing - where the top part of the cast was removed, his leg has developed thick black hair...looks most odd, as if someone's transplanted an adult thigh onto his body.

Bink-that's a good point about the slow adaptation to a different sensory environment. The other problem is that DS1's bed isn't particularly comfortable - it's a cabin bed and just not very snuggly. But being DS1 he absolutely refuses to change it - has a real issue about holding onto possessions. When he's in different beds, funnily enough, he tends to fall asleep more quickly - but that may be because we're on holiday etc, bed time is later, he's had more exercise.....

sphil, bit of a random question, but now I see you - how is ds2's leg?

Oh, it's all so similar, even down to the chuntering. What with DS1 muttering and DS2 shrieking at the top of his voice (has just discovered his 'higher register')nighttimes are not exactly peaceful in the Sphil household. We haven't got the behaviour differences atm, though DS1 is more of a 'hold it all in ' child so it's sometimes hard to tell how he's feeling.

DS1 chunters to himself (not really singing, more chattering and muttering) and I too yell up the stairs "Stop talking now!" He says he wants the door open and the light on, as otherwise he 'sees' things in the shadows, but in fact the light/noise keeps him awake. I am currently trying to read to him for a while after he has read to himself, but even if he is yawning during the reading he seems to ping back awake the moment the words "Sleep well" are mentioned.

Ditto about the looking tired and pale, but school work doesn't seem affected. His behaviour is, though - he's like a crouching, snarling Gollum in the mornings and very emotional about odd things later in the day ("I'm sad when I think about that time Grandma and Grandpa said goodbye to us in Singapore." This happened 5 years ago, but it's said with generous tears rolling down his cheeks.

Castles - at that description, which could have come out of the mouth of DS1. Last night it was 'I can hear the wind howling outside my room. I know there's no wind tonight but it's an imaginary wind'

Do there seem to be any knock-on effects with your DS? I think DS1 often looks tired and pale atm, but his behaviour/school work doesn't seem any different.

Yes it's just started with us this term. DS will be 7 in Feb. He's often up until 9/10pm with tales of how his eyelids won't stay shut or there's a cheetah in his room. He also seems to be getting really fidgety, something I hadn't really noticed before. Makes him more of an a-typical dreamer though I suppose

Yes, I have a tricky sleeper too - we all know now (including him, which takes some of the anxiety out of it) that he will find it dreadfully difficult to fall asleep the first night in a new place (on holiday, say). Other times he gets into a singing loop - just quiet warbling, and he thinks he's doing it to settle down, but it has the opposite effect. Poor thing, he's quite used to me shouting up the stairs Stop Singing Now.

I find making sure he has a good long read in bed helps - means the bed gets all cosy - I have a theory it is partly to do with adapting yourself to a different sensory environment, which ds does very slowly (he does any adaptation very slowly).

Can I pick up on something Singersgirl just said and talk about sleep issues? I'd be interested to know how many of our dreamers have problems with sleep. DS1 is finding it very difficult to drop off atm - it's been going on for a few months now. He is rarely asleep before 9.30 and last night it was nearer 10. We've tried different bedtimes, but it hasn't made a difference. He isn't at all relaxed when he goes to bed, even though we have a regular, calm routine every night. He often says he's scared or sometimes that he just can't relax.

singer - I used to have a year 7 tutor group - and you will be amazed how secondary school can change some children in even the first term - usually for the better tbh. It could be the making of him? I'd be inclined to view it as a positive leap and hopefully then so will he.

Welcome, Nomoreamover. I agree with you that the bedwetting is linked somehow (and probably allergies/intolerances as well). DS1 was wet till 7y4months - we had actually started seeing the enuresis nurse, but we got no further than the monitoring of drinking/bladder capacity. In fact it resolved itself in the 6 months between our first visit and the next scheduled one.

He's now 10.5 and has rather normalised since this thread started. He is still quirky and slightly oddball, but is beginning to seem more and more just a bright, fidgety boy with a dreadful pencil grip, rather than a Child With Attention/Sensory Issues. He does still chew on things (his coat collar is looking really manky this week), still can't sleep well and has a temper on a knife-edge; his glass is either absolutely drained or it overfloweth. This is his last year of primary school and that is terrifying.

well DS1 was also over 2 years ahead in reading and is exceptional at maths - but because he won't sit still on the carpet and because he asks lots of questions the teacher then deemed him disruptive - she put him in the bottom groups for everything...hence he got bored and therefore still more disruptive.....and so the cycle continued...until this term when I pulled him out of school altogether. Now I see he is just a bright little lad who is terribly sensitive picking up on others moods. He has quirkiness that needs understanding - but then so do I

Thanks for the welcomes and the advice re the GP - we're heading there asap. Did any of you also have issues gettign your DSs dry at night? I know its considered "normal" to be wet at night in boys til quite late but I wonder if its all linked somehow?

Yes, I get a bit pissed off by the blanket treatment of DS1. For example, his reading age is 2 years in advance of his real age but he's in a lowish group for reading because they test reading ability by....writing.

Hi NMM, we finally stopped scratching our heads over DS when we took him to see a developmental paediatrician. Good luck and welcome.

Sphil, that's interesting about the OT/fine motor skills. DS's school also play down his probably because he 'manages to get the job done'. He was assessed privately at the weekend for maths and his pencil grip in particular caught the assessor's eye and she really thinks we need to work on it as it will slow him down. I've got him some of those triangular pencils and am looking at private OT (the only way to go around here). On a slightly smug note, he scored 100% in both tests and she thinks he is probably G&T. We were gobsmacked as we thought he was rubbish at maths. It appears that being a visual learner, he is excellent at reading/written maths but not verbal which up until now has been our only evidence. I asked his teacher for a list of the maths terms they use in year 2 and hopefully we can work on those at home. I'm quite amazed his school haven't said something to us before but then I guess quirky boys like ours can't also be good at something in their eyes

Sorry for self-indulgent ramble

Hi NMM! - if you're new to this you have chosen yourself a mountain of a thread to climb!! (But my favourite one.)

If your son is a square-peg-type, ie his issues are not enormous (in the grand scheme of things) but all the same quite worrying in how much & how constantly they affect school, etc., then I would say the first stop is your GP, for a chat about whether your concerns are mainly around school/learning, or around behaviour, or other developmental things like motor skills, speech or social skills. As square pegs are square in so many different ways!

Then, and presuming the GP chat clarifies things, and you both decide some further investigation is needed, the next step would be a referral to the right sort of specialist - which could well be an educational psychologist, but could equally well be a developmental paediatrician, or some other person, depending on where it seems needed.

Um this is unreal - my DS1 is a mirror of so many of your boys....

How do I go about getting someone to "look" at him to see if he really has SEN? His last school's SENCO retorted "I just don't know WHAT is wrong with him - he just can't do as he is told...."

We have finally bitten the bullet and are taking DS1 for an OT assessment next month. DS2's NHS OT has left and we need to keep on top of his sensory integration programme, so the visit was originally planned for him, but we asked if DS1 could also be assessed on the same day. Will have to be done very, very carefully - DS1 is super-sensitive to any suggestion that he might be struggling with anything and also to any perceived links with DS2 and autism - but I've had a long chat with the OT about it and she seems very sensitive.

Will let you know what happens. School tend to play down his fine motor problems. I had to write a letter asking if both DSes could have the morning of the assessment off and that afternoon DS1 was summoned to the Head's office to receive a 'Headteacher's Award' for a piece of written work - his first ever. I hope it's just a strange coincidence but He was over the moon about it though, so .

Hope things are going well this term Bink. Great idea about the notebook.

Hello Sphil, good to see you. I always like to hear about DS1 as I often think he is my DS in 1 year + . That's also interesting about repeating the same bad behaviour at home even after a punishment. DS has been doing this since the start of term. I shall try your idea Sphil and see how I get on. I always thought DS was good at remembering consequences but maybe I am wrong.

Sorry I missed all this - will put this thread on watch as Bink suggested. The notebook idea sounds fantastic. We had a period with DS1 just before Christmas where he was repeating the same disobedient behaviours over and over again (at home not school).They were all minor things, but it was more the principle that he just didn't seem to be listening to us or learning from the punishments we gave. Someone on the SN board suggested that this could be because he just doesn't remember consequences, so similar to Bink's DS maybe? So every time he did something 'naughty' we started saying
'Do you remember, last time you did X then Y happened' and suggesting that he did the same when he felt an impulse to do it again. it seems to have worked - for the moment anyway. We were getting a lot of 'My brain told me to do it and I couldn't resist' type of explanations.

Otherwise, things this year are going well socially - far more invites and I can tell the other children like him, though they do boss him around a bit sometimes (the school play was a case in point - those on stage with him seemed terrified (possibly with good reason) that he would forget what he was doing, so there was a certain amount of prodding into position going on . Academically he seems to have slipped a bit - is in lower groups than last year - but his teacher is great and I trust her assessment of him.

Glad this thread is active again

I hadn't seen this update, Bink. I'm glad you've had such success with the notebook; it sounds as if things are looking up for next term on the behaviour and friend stuff.

I don't think DS1's teacher likes him this year. I think she only likes well-regulated small boys, not ones who stand up to do their maths. Actually, I could be wrong and it could just be me she doesn't like; she always looks vaguely displeased when I approach.

Issy - thank you! Ds's travails (plus ca change - although! maybe it is now changing) have only been a bit of the absentness - have also had monster job thing. Otherwise all well, but I am a bit conscious of neglecting lovely friends and look forward to putting that right as soon as possible (prob post new year, now)

Bink: I've just seen this. I had no idea that DS had been suspended and I'm sorry that I wasn't around to commiserate when commiseration was most required nor to congratulate you on your amazing success with the notebook. It really sounds like a most excellent idea because, as you observe, this is his system. And how lovely that the other children were encouraged to help him and that he now feels that he two friends. Having said all that, the suspension must have been ghastly.

MI and I have been worrying about you off-line as neither of us had heard from you for a while and, as is often the case, the answer was on Mnet!

Cheery update on Bink's ds below. This will probably break my record for long, so that was the executive summary :

- at the end of the first day back from the suspension we had a Meeting, which was a very sombre one, about what schools can be expected to manage & what they can't. We discussed getting someone in to observe ds, and agreed that the short time till the end of term was crucial [sword of Damocles sensation]. I said my bit about thinking memory issues might be an underlying thing to look at

- ds and I devised, together, a Notebook, which is divided in rows down the page per lesson, and against each lesson three columns headed "content" "me behave" and "they think" [note the important requirement to see things from others' pov] and ds was to go through the day filling in each column of each row with green dots (= good) yellow dots (= OK ...) and red dots (NOT good). A portable behaviour memory, you see

- this worked LIKE A BLOODY CHARM - we had every single day filled in, teachers commenting on how he wouldn't do his free time till he'd finished his notebooking, ds even canvassed the other kids at break for their view of his behaviour (which they were sweet about - I think while he was on suspension a talk may have been given to the others about trying to help him). There was a red dot or two early on, and then there was nothing but greens, and even a silver or two

- and then on the last day of term he won (jointly, must mention that) the class prize for coming top in the exams!!

He is very happy it's the holidays, but also very very looking forward to next term. And during/because of the notebook period, he also decided two of the boys were actually friends.

all round

Final thing: I think the key to this is that it was his system, devised by him, and run by him, and nothing imposed from above/outside. I'm not sure he could have done it before the age he is now, but he has so completely proved he can do it now.

Just adding this to my threads. Bink, sorry to hear about the suspension although a positive move in the long run?

A weak grasp of consequences... I've never thought of it in quite those terms but that could apply to ds1. <sigh> He's such a complex little boy, I feel as if I spent 90% of my day thinking and/or worrying about him.

Yep, "normal" methods don't work well with ds either.

In his case, it's to do with a combination of:

(a) memory problems, so he genuinely forgets stuff other people wouldn't (like tellings-off - hence repeating the same behaviours - the repetition is what he's been excluded for, rather than the behaviour itself if you see what I mean); and

(b) having a very weak grasp of consequences. This is a classic one - if you don't by nature develop the automatic habit of thinking & looking ahead, it's a really hard one to learn (or indeed teach - I'm still wrestling with how to).

However - ds is better at responding to the normal methods than he was. And, every now and then, grasping how much better he'd get on if he did try to "believe in" [his words] consequences.

Hi Bink, I'm dreading the day when we have to keep ds1 home for the same reason. The OT and the teacher have both talked to us in the last week about ds1's behavior He just doesn't respond to the normal methods of discipline. He did at first but as the teacher says now he's starting to "figure her out".

I ordered a DVD yesterday that a couple made about Sensory Processing Disorder. Their son was initially misdiagnosed with autism.

Hi jabber, I'm here.
I'm here because I'm at home (ie instead of at work) because ds has been excluded for today & tomorrow

Long story ... but in nutshell I agree with the school's line (it's a new mainstream one, which ds has just moved to this year from his previous "unit" specialist school), and do believe them when they say they're doing the suspension because they are totally committed to making the school work for ds & are therefore trying to nip stuff in bud.

Anyway, if you're in a mood for commiseration I definitely am!

Is anyone around? Just had nightmare morning with ds1. 30 minute tantrum over getting dressed for school that just kept escalating And then ds2 was being such a sweet normal little boy it made ds1 seem that much more abnormal iykwim.

PS

There is some really interesting new research showing that some children are misdiagnosed with ADD when in reality it is a vision problem

here and here

I talked with ds1's OT yesterday. There is a new gym in out town with a climbing wall. The OT agreed that it would be an excellent activity for ds1 with stretching, contracting, increasing muscle tone and strengthening core muscle groups. I'm hoping to give it a try this afternoon.

Thanks Bink. I was going to ask you about the cost. You read my mind! I was also just thinking of a fellow potential dreamer (whose mother isn't on this thread but should be ) who might like to join in with some of the football stuff etc. If anyone else locally is interested, let me know!

Oh, incidentally, as ds gets better at the basic stuff we began with (like throwing & catching), I've started to think it would be good for him to share the sessions with another similar child - you can get a little bit more of a game going then - football skills are less easy to practice 1-to-1.

Just mentioning in case you find even more kindred spirits in Richmond ...

I'm so pleased you like my idea castles!

It was one of those lightbulb moments when I thought of it - dh had his life (and, ahem, figure) turned around a few years back by having some sessions with a personal trainer, and I thought - this idea is all over the place for sedentary/non-sporty adults so why not for a child? (PS it might be useful for you to know that while the going rate for an adult's personal trainer is £30-50 ph, I asked my candidates to quote & the range was £12-20 ph.)

Oooh, do you think there's something in the air in Richmond??

We are very close, too, then, Castles - Richmond as well.

Hi castles, I'm glad you revived this thread. Headed out of town though so I hope it's still going next week when I come back. I could use a place to vent discuss ds1.

Hello Jabber, good to see you. Your DS does sound remarkably familiar ...

Thanks for the info Bink. Yes we are in the gumtree-carpeted area of Richmond (so is MrsGofG by the sound of it?). I had a quick look at gumtree last night. I'm going to post an ad. I think it's an excellent idea. 1:1 is right up DS's street.

Hi bink, thanks for the welcome. I had lunch with earlybird before I left TN and she mentioned that you and she had a meetup I think? Lovely person, earlybird. Too bad I moved away just as she came.

Interesting that you mentioned the bit about our dreamers coming to us this way. I think about it often and sometimes tell dh that ds1 got an overly healthy dose of both of our neuroses. We are currently doing listening therapy at home along with occupational therapy at school. I notice some improvements in things like doing up buttons (remarkably difficult for him) but then the outbursts and tears seem worse lately. He is 5 and in kindergarten (we're in the US). We moved to get him into this really wonderful school but the social strains are still a burden for him.

I read your post about the physical activity and it reminded me of a chapter in a book I just finished. It talked about children who have combination of over and under sensitivity. So on the one hand they can seem sluggish and lethargic and need to really move their bodies to get going but on the other hand can show sensitivity to labels on clothes, etc. The book is Sensational Children if you're interested.

Hi jabberwocky, lovely to have a new joiner! (On this thread - not suggesting you are otherwise new.)

I think an element of SPD is something others of us will recognise, though perhaps at a sub-diagnosis level - my ds is wretchedly tickly (not fun) and has noise-sensitivities (forks on plates, hands on metal handrails) which go beyond the norm. And lots of us have standard-issue other children (I have dd, who's 8, and a focussed & altogether down to earth merry little person) which help to make clear that we didn't "give" our dreamers these problems - they came that way.

Tell us more!

Hi there, can I join you all? Castles told me about this thread ages ago.

Ds1 has sensory processing disorder. He is also quite bright which tends to go with SPD and just makes the whole mix even more interesting IYKWIM. I seem to spend huge amounts of time either dealing with him and his various issues or thinking about the same. It's remarkable that ds2 gets any attention at all but I think we do a pretty good job at balancing it out thus far anyway. Ds2 is a sunny little soul who is my saving grace most days - and ds1's for that matter.

ps - lol re 'gumtree-carpeted' what an evocative expression!!!!!!

Bink - very interesting re Physical Education guidance... We had no specific advice, but I work at home, and I know that I work MUCH better when I have had physical exercise (eg a bike ride around Richmond Park, 100 bounces on trampoline ) and also when I have a deadline, and so with the DC we have alsways tried replicate those conditions where possible for the homework. Also, re Latin - I LOVED Latin @ school, and also Maths, becuase it had right answers, and now DS1 has started learning Latin formally @ school (he is a maths whizz - better than me, more like DH) and also has an affinity for Latin - glowing accolades from his teacher, and even DS2 is taking an interest in it, although sadly not taught at his school, because he also likes task oriented activities..

castles - I found him on gumtree - perfect sort of job for gumtree (if you're in a gumtree-carpeted area like London - are you?). You have to target your pool of potential applicants carefully on gumtree though - I put my ad in the teachers-wanted section, in the dedicated PE sub-category. I said I wanted someone patient, encouraging, and with some special needs experience/interest.

It got me lots of applicants, most of them with proper qualifications; and including one that we didn't employ as he got snapped up for a very similar job. So clearly the supply (and the demand) is out there!

Lovely to see you all

That is so interesting about the physical activity having a positive effect. It is one of the things I spoke to DS's (Year 2) teacher about at parents' evening. I think help with physical activity will really help him in all areas. He still has trouble in the playground because he's not up to other's standards etc. She said they would concentrate on it but I think I might have to go down Bink's route and find someone privately to do work with him. Do you mind me asking how you found your PE teacher Bink?

Also, sadly, like indignatio's DS, teaching seems to have gone off the boil in Year 2. Their Year 1 teacher did amazing things to them all. The first thing his new teacher said to me at parents' eve was "DS has arrived in Year 2 in a position we hope the high achievers might be by the end of it". I had to bite my tongue from saying "So, your work here is done"! I guess it is all about SATS after all

Oh, very definitely not hefty - small and thin as a rake and never, ever still. Sluggish is not a word that you could ever apply to DS1 . He stayed with my sister recently and she said afterwards, "He drew for two hours and talked non-stop the whole time." Absolutely bags of frequently unfocused energy - so the idea is to get rid of some of it, leaving just enough to get on with the task in hand.

Now DS2 is the sluggish sort and very unwilling to move at all. Perhaps some movement would stir up him up a bit!

That's very interesting Singersgirl, and not just because it supports my own hobbyhorse - one of the reasons I think ds needs the activity so much is because of his particular build (which is heavy-muscular): without activity he gets very noticeably sluggish. Your ds isn't like that though, is he? So it is interesting that running-around gets recommended for types other than the hefty sort.

Another thought about the physical activity. DS1's tutor suggested that before we get him to do homework we send him round the block on his bike several times or get him to run around the park. His best maths papers are the ones he does between coming home from school on a Friday and going out again in an hour to karate. The tutor says it's because he's physically tired so can sit still and let his brain take over.

Bink, I'm glad your DS is enjoying Latin. I think it would be right up DS2's street.

Indignatio, I think it really is just maturity. He's young in his year, and young for his age in some ways, and has the hyper-silly-fidgety-sub-ADHD stuff going on. What's happened in the last 18 months or so is that he can now concentrate on stuff he doesn't want to for short periods. He's not as highly able as your DS or Bink's so I think he is probably less bored by certain tasks. So sorry for your DS having to switch his brain off. DS2 was in Y2 last year and he enjoyed it much more than Y1 - his teacher though really got him and understood that there was more going on in his head than always appeared on paper.

Stuff we tried that may have helped DS1:
Kumon (which has done great things for his maths confidence and helped him with the short concentrated bursts on boring stuff)
Trumpet playing (good for coordination, concentration and confidence - again, 15-20 minutes focusing on something new)
Karate (he's been doing this for nearly 5 years now. It's a great physical outlet and fantastic for physical and mental self-discipline; he gets lots of praise from his karate teacher who's a laid back South African dude that DS1 really likes)
Drama (he's really into this and I think the Saturday class he's started is excellent for self-control and reigning in that silliness)

He's been having specific 11+ private school entrance tuition for the last 9 months, and that's helped too - timed tasks, really thinking about what questions are asking etc. His tutor gives him extra points (for chocolate rewards) if he can stay in his seat for the whole hour and NOW HE CAN!

Re "seeing" the answers - yes, that's exactly the issue (and why it's really quite difficult to get him to understand that the learning-goal wasn't, in this case, to get the sums right - but to be able to demonstrate grasp of a particular process. Ds is, er, not exactly a process-driven person. But I do think it is important that he learn to see that his way, however effective it is, is NOT the ONLY way).

Dh (who also can't bear process-driven-ness) is trying very hard to hide that he's on ds's side in this!

And yes, give ds a Latin translation that he has to decode in bits & he's all alert. Latin has been a happy discovery this term.

Aw Bink - I can see where your ds is coming from. If work was put infront of him and he could see how to do it, then chances are he would switch off for the explaination.

Food for thought on the focussed physical activity.

Is it the same for mental activity ? ie if it isn't easy then it is necessary to concentrate and vice versa

Oh dear indignatio. I can see where you are coming from, too, with the SATS angle. Early days though??

Ds (now 9 and a half, in Yr5 at his new mainstream boys' prep school) is doing - well, sometimes OK, sometimes not bad at all, sometimes not well at all. Three steps forward, ten back, twenty forward, six sideways, shake it all about ... that kind of thing.

We're all doing our best to roll with it, but he goes from writing the most superb "day in the life of a Victorian boy" (and getting a commendation in assembly for it), to having a stand-up row with maths teacher because he daydreamed through the instructions for how to set particular work out, did the sums his own way (getting them right, but that is not the point) and then was told to do them all again. The rollercoaster is just so exhausting.

However. On sports - I found him this summer a kind & rather inspirational secondary-school PE teacher to do some private coaching ("this is what you do with your arm when you throw overhand" "and let's try again" "and again") and that had an enormous effect - on his attitude beyond everything else. He's now having (quite) a good go at a football club on Sunday mornings - and, as always, the more focussed running around he does the less dreamy/vague/distracted/set on his own agenda he is. I do think there is a huge relevance of physical activity in all this.

Hi Castles and Singersgirl.

Singersgirl, good news, can you point to anything which helped your ds1, or do you put this down to maturity ?

Update
Well, after a brilliant Yr1 (because of the teacher who understood ds), Yr2 is proving (so far) to be just the opposite. Teacher is not interested in ds - cynically my view is that this is because he already hits the sats targets she needs him to achieve this year.

I felt like crying when ds said that he just switches his brain off at school because he doesn't need it.

Hello, Castles! As I said on the other thread, DS1, now 10, seems to be doing well at the moment. He still spins like Dizzy the cement mixer going down the road and can talk for 2 hours straight about nothing much at all. Academically he's much better at concentrating and showing what he's capable of. He is unpredictable, though, according to his tutor. He needs to learn when to stop trying to be funny before it spills into silliness, according to his teacher.

Have found him a new Saturday morning drama course that he is really into and this I think helps the whole sporting misery. He's got a really good close-knit group of friends (4 of them) and they are all very supportive; 3 of them do drama and aren't very sporty!

Is anyone still around and interested in an update? I stumbled into singersgirl on an education thread yesterday ... it would be lovely to hear how our collective dreamers are getting on.

That sounds like a wonderfully imaginative story, Castles, and he sounds as if he is doing really well. I too love to hear others' stories. So I will add a ramble of my own....

Having said recently I wasn't as worried about DS1, I guess other issues are coming to the fore now. He is very emotional at the moment, and very conscious of not being good at sport - found him in tears at a friend's party yesterday after he lost a table tennis match. He just kept saying, "I'm crap, I'm crap". Didn't think it was the time to pick up on the choice of words and told him he just hadn't practised as much. Several children at school seem to tell him he is 'mad' and this of course upsets him. He doesn't always want me to tell the teacher and I want him to learn how to deal with stuff like that.

He is being tutored for 11+ at the moment and we get the same message from the tutor; "got a good mind", "a sharp little boy", "better with difficult work than easy work because he focuses", BUT Needs To Concentrate and Not Get Worked Up.

Just thought I'd give this thread a little bump to see how everyone is.

Indignatio, I agree with your sentiments entirely esp the bit about HE and the merits of the rounding experience of school. DS is far more capable than he is given credit for in the classroom but socially he has come on enormously this year so I don't really care at this stage. Part of this is shyness to speak up. I don't see this as a problem as I was the same and always excelled in exams and like DS, I coasted until these times.

His writing astounds me. I'm sure it's below average (so his teacher tells me) but to me it's fantastic for a 6 year old with 'special needs'. He's just written 2 very long stories one about an owl who ends up intervening in a fight between a lion and an impala (sp?) on the savannah (lots of detail about the activities of nocturnal animals) which leads to the cycle of sleeping and hunting in a parallel universe between badgers, squirrels and rabbits and concludes with the observation about how the world keeps spinning and life continues at all levels. Several spelling mistakes (though phonetic) and going off at tangents all over the place but I'm sure at the end of last year he could only 'copy' words and write his name.

I wish I could find some of the stuff I wrote at that age (if indeed I could). As DH says, I might have had beautifully neat writing but I probably didn't have an original thought in my head. Rude but entirely honest

Sorry for long ramble but I just have so much to say on the subject of my little dreamer and this is about the only place I feel I can come and talk

indignatio, your posts really struck a chord with me. I think everything going on in reception does distract dd big time, and now I do have some hope for yr 1! dd's teacher also thinks that dd is quite bright, and could go far if she could focus more and apply herself. She just doesn't choose to do it in school yet!
I don't think dd dislikes school, she'd just prefer to bin the school work and do the playing At least her teacher does try to understand her and is fairly positive when she speaks to me - I imagine dd is pretty frustrating to teach!

In praise of this thread. It has given me the strength to accept what I cannot change - ds - and to change what I cannot accept - some aspects of school. It may sound trite - for which I apologise.

I now know that 29 children will happily go in one direction and ds will not. I know this - as to do school (after the Harvest Festival Fiasco).

I know that ds is far more capable than he shows in class. I also know that if I were a teacher, ds would drive me demented.

I know that ds enjoys school - which in itself is worth its weight in gold

I know that if I were to HE ds, he would learn far more in the academic subjects, but for him (at present) being at school is far more of a rounding experience than being at home would be.

BUT most importantly, I know that ds is not alone, he is not a freak (highly intelligent but clueless), there are others out there, whose parents worry as much about their dcs as we do about ds, who are like me/us just trying to find a way through primary to the benefit of our dcs.

Hi PB1. From my experience of ds, (limited but a subject close to my heart) his reception teacher did not "get him". We have just had the year 1 report which (apart from asking him to concentrate and change quicker for PE) basically said what a wonderful intelligent boy (with a photographic memory - not too sure about that but DH is), and a joy to have in the class.

I remember from school days having teachers I "got on" with and teachers I didn't. It seems the same is still in existence.

The change from reception to Yr 1 is great - far more emphasis on work and quiet - this has been great for ds (and also may be for your dd) - much as he complains that there is not nearly enough time to play ! The quieter atmosphere is good for ds's concentration (or less distracting - however you wish to look at it). He is flying - I will wait to yr 2 (or maybe3)before starting to push the teacher to pander to ds's unique charms. At present he is v v happy to coast and I am fine with this as he is not coasting at home. !!

I always read this thread with enjoyment and learn a lot even when I am not posting - thanks

hi all, have just found this thread again, after starting another similar in Primary!
how is everyone doing?
Just been to see dd's class teacher again. Basically she's not progressing much at all. still the same as ever! I think they are concerned that when she goes into Yr 1 she will have problems as she needs 1-1 still to get anything done at all. she doesn't see why she should do all this school work when there are other interesting things to do!

castlesintheair, I've never considered cubs/beavers for my own sons as they're a little too militantly atheist and don't particularly wish to be part of a group iyswim. However, if you wanted that sort of organization but without the religion, how about the Woodcraft Folk?

My dds do Rainbows/Brownies, castles. They love it. When I was small (100 years ago) it was quite overtly Christian. Now I'd say that the basic ethos hasn't really changed (the groups often meet in Church halls and there are Church parades or events for Harvest Festival, Mother's Day, etc at the relevant Church) but overtly they have become more inclusive. The promise now talks about loving 'my God' and the books that they get explaining what it's all about are more multi-cultural/inclusive in the kinds of girls they show enjoying Rainbows/Brownies. I can only comment on the girls' side of things though.

DS does art after school, can highly recommend it. Was wondering about cubs/beavers?? - does anyone have an opinion? My friend's son who is HFA is starting in september (same age) but there is something stopping me from enrolling my own DS, not sure what

DS is 6 and wants to learn the guitar. I spoke to a teacher who said it's best to buy one so they can muck around at home (I checked and you can get them for around the £25 mark which seems reasonable to me) as having lessons before 8 can dampen their enthusiasm. I think it's a great idea - IIRC all our dreamers are musical, mine certainly is, and it can only be a boost to their confidence, not to mention coordination.

Talking of which, DS was forever walking into lamp posts etc but it seems to be improving. Now I've noticed DD1 (4) doing it a lot so maybe she'll be joining your DS on here singersgirl, unless it's a genetic thing ... says the mother who's had just about every accident possible

Will have to find out more about Kumon maths, singersgirl. I'm sorry, but I am roffling at 'It's my chair's hobby to knock me off'! Bless! Strangely, lamp-posts seem to jump out in front of my dd quite a lot!

DS1 is now 9 and in Y5 and I am significantly less worried about him than I was. This year, for the first time, his teacher has said that she thinks he is working to his ability. Concentration is still a problem, though, and he is still the only child standing up to do his maths.

He's been playing the trumpet for 18 months or so, which has been a boost to his confidence and concentration - nevertheless, his trumpet teacher says he can't stand still and doesn't listen enough. He does after school drama too. The other thing that's been good for short, sharp bursts of concentrated effort is Kumon maths, which is dull but has really taught him his maths facts and how to work to a strict time.

I wonder if I should add DS2, aged 6, to this thread too, as his teacher says he falls off his chair a lot ("It's my chair's hobby to knock me off") but is absolutely motionless when engaged in something.

Thanks Hallgerda and good idea about hiring the instrument (though knowing her and the way she loses things, I'd end up paying for it anyway as she'd leave it somewhere!). She is doing drama at school at the moment, and loves it, but I can't find a club locally that we can get to (the only one is after school and quite far away, and her CM doesn't drive). I'm liking the fact that a musical instrument will engage her brain and her hands at the same time!

Yes, the music idea sounds like an excellent one, Ellbell. DS3 has got a lot out of starting to learn the piano - and his piano teacher says he's doing really well. (And she's not a softie - she scares DS1 ) I'm not sure I'd get the instrument as a birthday present though - might it be better to go for a hire in the first instance just in case it doesn't work out?

To find a local music teacher, try your local music shop if you have one - they generally have lists of teachers.

Other ideas - I considered drama, and still think it might have been a good idea, but was not able to timetable that one. DS3 has also been doing football in an after school club, about which he has been very enthusiastic. I'm sure that has helped both with coordination and with getting more sleep at night. He amazed me by getting a hole in one in Crazy Golf yesterday (OK, a fair few holes in 10 as well, but DS2 and I managed those too...)

It's lovely that your daughter wants to help the others on her table, but I understand your frustration - I frequently have to stop myself from screaming "Stop being so @$£! nice".

Hi all... Just had to come and tell you all about dd1's parents' evening tonight.

She is doing really well (though I am a bit at the extent to which the school seems to measure this by SATs-type tests, even in a non-SATs year). She is in Year 3 and is 'scoring' a 4b for reading and a 4c for writing (English is her 'thang', as you can see). She's more 'average' for maths, but is doing perfectly well, at 3b. However (and I knew there was going to be a 'however'), she is (still) easily distracted, doesn't focus, often 'forgets' what she has been told, sometimes helps the others on her table (she's on the table at the front of the class for those who need to be under the teacher's 'beady eye', some - though not all - of whom are those who struggle a bit with the work) and then forgets to do her own work. I was told that one day recently she spent 15 mins 'working' and ended up with three pencils and a blank sheet of paper [don't know whether to or tear hair out in frustration].

Her teachers are lovely and they really appreciate her for who she is. Unlike her Year 2 teacher, they never present her as a 'problem child'. But when I asked what I could do to encourage her to concentrate a bit more, they were at a bit of a loss. They said she'd grow out of it. But I teach 18-21 year olds, and I know that it doesn't always happen (the guy who did a whole year of an Italian degree without noticing that he should have been attending some Italian language classes springs to mind). One of her teachers suggested music as a good way of engaging both sides of her brain and also an activity which requires a certain discipline. She definitely wants to join the school choir next year, but I'm wondering about getting her an instrument of some sort for her birthday (she's 8 next month). Maybe a flute? She can make a noise blowing over a bottle top! I'd need to find a local teacher, though. I can help a bit (got Grade 6 clarinet and Grade 6 theory, though all about a zillion years ago), but am not the best person as am basically tone deaf.

Sorry this is so long. I just thought that you ladies might have some ideas about ways of trying to get her to focus a bit better in class (and out of it for that matter). Does the music thing seem like a good idea?

Actually quite often I sort of sidle over to listen into DS just in case and find he is coping quite well with the conversation. I know that I have to keep out of it because I am not always going to be around and he has to learn social skills by himself as well as with my help but it is sooooo hard not to make it easier for him.

I try to see that even though I am all torn up inside when DS is rejected by the other kids - he, in fact, doesnt actually care. I am the only one bothered by it. The only thing I cannot stand is when they become rough with him. He just doesnt understand it and would never hit back. I think at his school it has happened out of frustration on their part because he does not respond to them. Everyday when I go to pick him up my stomach is churning in case he has been hit and he will come out and say "No one hit me today Mummy" .

I must admit though, I never thought I would get to this point of acceptance ie not feeling devastated everytime I thought about it. DH and I do have a laugh about him and his ways sometimes and I never thought Id be able to do that.

Lovely for yours who don't give you heart-in-mouth feelings any more.

Mine (the nearly-9yo) still does, I'm afraid - he went for another trial day at the planned follow-on school (ie, follow-on from his current specialist specific-learning-needs school) & every time I answered the phone at work that day I was sure I was about to hear "Nope, we've made a mistake, sorry about that, not possible, can't take him, in fact come & get him NOW." (So when the head actually phoned a few days later to say "Great improvement - good fun in class, contributed appropriately - can't see a problem for September" I felt quite a bit odd.)

The point of which being - the anxiety state gets to be a habit. So if you can manage, among all the other incredibly difficult keeping of tabs on perspective - so difficult in these particular cases - not to automatically always assume/predict the worst, then perhaps it won't eat you up as much as it has me.

<ancient crone passing down the wisdom of generations emoticon>

Do you know, ALM, I'd completely forgotten about that anxious feeling - and it's only been about a year since I stopped feeling I had to 'interprete' for DS1 with other children. I still have to poke him occasionally when another child says hello to him and he doesn't notice!

I know how you feel scorpio1. The only real reason I am pursuing a diagnosis for DS is I cant stand thinking he is being told off for things he cant help. I hate thinking that maybe I have told him off for things he cant help in the past.

When the GP asked me to describe my DS when I went to her with concerns I said "He does exactly the same as other kids but just not so much and about 6 months to a year after the other kids were doing it". Eg - he asks Why? Why? Why? about absolutely everything now but he is 5 and really I would have expected him to have started this earlier. He points at things and brings them to my attention to share interest but also has only really started doing that in the past year.

I know that anxious feeling as well when he starts talking to other kids and you have to hold yourself back from running over to ease the conversation or game along for him.

Hi

DS1(5.10) is dyspraxic, we havent had an official dx yet, just a matter of time. It is so obvious.

I have some upsetting issues though his behaviour is just terrible - i hate telling him off what feels like all the time. He is very physical with his brother (3)and also me, sometimes. He also wets himself nearly daily; though not at night. SENCO said he may not be able to recognise/understand the order of going to the toilet?

Sometimes i feel very that this is forever (for him, not me)

My mother in law, bless her, makes me feel better about DS2 and his quirks because she remembers what DH was like as a wee boy. She makes remarks about how she thought that he was going to go to school in nappies etc. She also says that he did not mix with other kids until he went ti high school where he found other kindred spirits (who he is still friends with 30 years later), it really gives me hope when the school is being negative.

I'd like to welcome all the new dreamers too This thread has been a great comfort to me. A year ago or so ago I was staggering around in the wilderness and now I know that DS is not the only one.

I totally agree with the 'late developer' thing. My MIL has always insisted on this. DS has done everything really late but once he has reached a milestone, you would never know he was late at it, in fact, he's usually better at it than his peers.

I was watching DS in the playground yesterday running around with all his pals and realised that I haven't been standing there with my buttocks clenched for ages He was in fact leading the game, something that happens quite regularly now, so I am told. Not by him of course!

Glad you've found this ALM . It's made me feel so much less anxious about DS1. Watched him in playground today as I was leaving a governors' meeting and he was so involved and integrated in the game. A year ago he would have been just dancing around on the edges.

I love this thread. Someone said in an earlier post that whenever they go past the coat hooks at their childs school it is always their childs belongings on the floor. Thats when I knew I was in the right place.

Took DS out for pizza today and he sat cuddled up to me, kissing me on the cheek in between bites of pizza, now I do love this but I realise that the average 5 year old boy probably doesnt do this.

I got our Ed Psych report today and it was pretty positive all round so what with finding this thread and that I am feeling pretty good today.

Bink - I agree with you completely about "late developers" My DH says that he is not worried about DS at all because he thinks he will "grow into" his traits IYSWIM, they will not be so noticeable when he is older. He thinks the other kids need to catch up with DS .

Just wanted to say hello to new thread joiners. DS1 is still dreaming along (the only boy in his Y5 class chewing his hat in his school assembly yesterday and the only one who had to leave halfway through to go to the loo ). Have been trying not to spend too much time on Mumsnet, but do still check into this thread.

Reading in recent posts about it not occurring to children to tell us about things that happen at school reminds me about a recent event at my sons school; I was standing minding my own business in the playground at home time when the headmaster came up to me saying he was very sorry about what had happened at school yesterday and it would never happen again, I looked puzzled as DS2 had not mentioned anything untoward and the heedie then told me that DS2 had been left behind in the local library (next door to the school)when the rest of the class returned to school, he had his nose stuck in a Star Wars book of course and hadn't noticed the class leaving. I told HT ,jokingly, that he could have got away with not telling me because DS2 had not said anything. When questioned DS2 told me that he had asked the library lady for help and she had taken him back to school ,Iwas quite proud of him for coping, the final part of tha story is that when I went to thank said lady for helping DS2 she said"Oh yes that is the second time they have left him behind". The fact that i did not make a big fuss about this has given me some leverage with the headteacher!

Hi, ALM - yes your ds sounds like he's one of ours! Welcome to the party. (And there should be one, one day )

My current take on this is that there might be a real truth in the old wives' term of "late developer". My ds will be 9 next month, and I do really notice the strides he takes - in particular because bits & pieces of (especially social) instinct were so patently lacking, in comparison with others his age, early on.

Example: if I now give him a pep-talk about behaving in a particular situation (perfect example is joining in performing school concert songs which he thinks are "babyish"), he now absolutely absorbs and understands what I'm saying - "so I have to ignore what I might be feeling and make the concert a success for everyone" - whereas, at your son's age ALM, I would have got a blank look. (And to my huge relief, he DID behave in the concert, and courteously sang all the babyish lyrics.)

The other thing I've noticed about him as he's got older (offering this as prognosis for the younger dreamers here) is that his facility for co-operative imaginative invention (so shared dreaming, not just solitary) gets stronger & stronger - he had his best friend here last weekend & the continual story-building improvisation between them was completely charming: neither leading the story, instead creating it between them in a back-&-forth collaborative way. I think it's a kind of friendship that not all children get to have (& one I'm a little envious of, myself).

Was referred to this thread by Sphill - thanks . Just thought I would post on this thread as I have been posting on Special Needs but for some reason this one feels like it might be more relevant to DS.

He is 5.1.
Up to speed academically but apparently has problems socially at school - always seeks out and prefers the company of adults. His teacher says that he doesnt seem able to socialise with kids his own age but when he comes home he will often tell us about what they got up to and laugh appropriately. He understands when things are naughty etc.

He wont focus on things he is not interested in. Finds it difficult to move on to different activities at school etc. We dont really see this because he just seems so happy at home or out with us as a family.

I still dont know if he is right or left handed as he uses both.

His gross motor skills arent the best - he never really rode a trike and finds his bike with stabilisers really hard work - is a whiz on his scooter though. Likes climbing but his running is a bit all over the place .

Does not ever seem to understand urgency, just drifts through life with me on his heels when things need doing. He doesnt really have problems with changes in routine or anything.

My whole impression of DS is that life is just happening to him. He is very happy and really kind and gentle with his younger sister - never gives her a hard time.

He shows me things and shares things with me but would never think to tell me something that had happened to him say at school. eg he came home with a big bruise on his face and his teacher had to tell me what happened because he never would. It just would not occur to him. He would be upset at the time but then just accept it.

We have been told it may be possible aspergers or ASD but I have read up loads on these and neither of them really fit. I do think he has some traits but as my DH says "Who is to say what is normal if so many kids have these traits?". The title of this thread is just so relevant to how I feel about DS. You all seem to know so much about what is going on with your kids as well. I just feel as though I am flapping around in the dark.

Sorry this is so long. Going to go back and read the whole thread in detail. Thanks if you read this .

I so agree with you about the behaviour issue Allytjd. I honestly feel that DS1's quiet and conformist behaviour stops him from getting sufficient focused help.

Funnily enough, DS2 (5 with severe ASD) has just started at m/s school and I can see that this might be an issue with him too. He is also very 'good' - ie he'll sit quietly and not disrupt the class - and I can see that this might mean that they start thinking he doesn't need 1:1. But in his case he won't LEARN anything without one!

This whole field is very confusing, in my experience (three DSs) two children can have the same academic problems as listed above but only the one who has behavioual problems in class that annoy the teacher will have their problems taken seriously! If they are quiet the teachers are not so bothered about sorting them out. I have read a lot of stuff trying to work out how my sons tick, I feel that there are a lot of kids out there who are "right- brain dominant" ie, visual learners who find it difficult to concentrate and listen in classrooms where most of teaching suits "left-brain dominant" ie, auditory learners and teachers who are good at learning by listening. I think it can be very common for boys (esp. left-handers) to learn by looking and doing not listening. Teachers know about this but don't feel they have time to teach both ways.

I just thought I would post an update - been to see dd's teacher today. She was very nice and pretty complimentary about dd in the main, which I guess I wasn't expecting! She said dd is very clever basically, but is easily distracted by everything that's going on and takes ages to finish her work without close supervision. She has a short attention span, and tends to go into her own world! but the teacher says that's not unusual for her age (she's 4 and a summer baby so one of the youngest). So we need to try and get her to focus on a task long enough and do it independently, as when she goes into Y1 there won't be a TA to help. I didn't realise this! So the meeting was very useful, I now understand more what they're trying to do and why.

Hello - nice to see you over here, paddingtonbear1!

My son is 8, in Year 4 and doing well now, but his Year 1 report suggested that he needed 1-1 support to get anything done whatsoever. He had some "social skills" sessions with someone who went on about how it was OK not to be doing well, which led to him thinking long-term benefit claimant was a reasonable ambition. I had to say some pretty direct things to him about that, of the type that if anyone on here had overheard me there'd have been a lovely thread slagging me off as a dreadful middle class pushy mum.

I know I was in a minority of one on your thread over thinking the teacher might have the right idea, but I do think encouragement to take responsibility for themselves really is the key. I'd have a good chat to the teacher about how she thinks that could be achieved - I wouldn't be surprised if she has personal experience of the issue, either as a parent or as a child.

Hallgerda linked to this thread for me - cheers!
Some of this sounds like my dd.
she is summer born, and fairly immature. She started reception last Sept.
She has issues with speech, poor attention span/concentration at school, and is 'behind' in most aspects of school work (according to school). The teacher has to supervise her a lot otherwise she won't finish her work.
On the plus side she is very sociable and has plenty of friends, she is v loving, has a good imagination and plays great with her toys.
Have to see her teacher after half term. She doesn't have any special help at the moment, not sure if her school will suggest any yet.

Fantastic, castlesintheair! I'm still having to be a nagging cow about handwriting (but at least DS3 can now write beautifully when he tries .)

Not sure what is happening to my dreamer at the moment (this is a positive thing though): he has asked his teacher to give him extra handwriting homework as he loves it so much

If DS1 is forced to play a game and loses, he's pretty graceful abut it - but it's as if it completely knocks his confidence, so he won't play it again. This extends to raffles and tombolas too! I think his sense of disappointment is so keen that he'd rather not suffer it again, even if it means losing out on the possibility of winning.

Both really. Especially football. He really wants to play but often ends up disrupting the game and annoying everyone. DH is out in the garden at the moment "teaching" him. We live in hope. Similarly Sphil, unwritten rules are improving. DS is fine with board games, he's a good loser (and winner) it just seems to be ball games. Glad it's not just me, IYKWIM

Do you mean formal rules Castles - or the unwritten social rules of games? DS1 isn't great with either - though better with social rules than he was. He absolutely hates games - would rather not play at all than play and lose. Doesn't mind team games - but board games or anything where the pressure is on him alone, he would rather avoid.

Thanks Maggiems and Sphil. Do any other Dreamers have problems 'getting' the rules of games? Or is it just mine. I sometimes think it's quite spectrumy how other kids just 'get' things and he has to be taught. Would be interested to hear other stories if anyone is in the same boat.

Gosh thats a great way to describe Dt2, i,e mind scrambles after a few minutes of concentration. Great news on that feedback sphil and Castles - sounds like your Ds is doing great too. I am not a fan at all of things alternative,however sometimes I hear good news stories like yours and Sphils and I think , well maybe I should give it a go.

Castles - I think Ds1 is a year older than yours (he's 6.5). The description of your playdate would have been exactly like DS1 last year. I don't think you need to do anything about it - an hour's joint play is good for their age imo!

I'm a great fan of all things alternative. Cranial osteopathy, the Bowen technique and nutritional therapy have done wonders for DS2 (he has ASD) and DS1 also benefited when he had a few sessions of cranial osteopathy at the age of 4. The cranial osteopath described to me how DS1's mind 'scrambles' after a few minutes of concentration and how he needs some time to refocus - this was before I'd told him anything about him!

I've just come back from my meeting with Ds1's teacher and am feeling very positive. She seems to understand him very well. Although she agrees his writing is a problem, she can see his brightness beyond that - he was in the bottom group for everything except reading but she's moved him up two maths groups, one reading group and one writing group this term. She's recommended a typing programme and he'll be getting OT fine motor exercises twice a week from now on. We talked about dyspraxia and she says the school can assess him for that - something I hadn't realised (I think it's because they have an OT on site). She also said he was delightful and unusual .

Well, when I say resolved I mean he is still exactly the same as he was last year, but is doing fine in the grand scheme of things. So apart from a bit of extra schoolwork in the evening to ensure he keeps up with his class we are largely leaving him be. His teacher still say he is polite, friendly etc, still forgetful, still slow to work, but he seems fine

Right, back to reading...

Hi Ellebell and thanks for bumping

I was on this tread many moons ago when I had some worries with ds. That seems mostly resolved now. I will have a read of this mammoth tread now - will grab a coffee and settle down

Bother, I can't find anything that explains it simply. This is the SEAL website, and there's probably something in the guidance booklet that's downloadable there. I'll try to look tomorrow at work, but my ancient computer here is struggling with the PDF file... and I need to go to bed.

Hi all. Sorry for the very brief bump-and-run earlier, but was at work and rushing.

Went to a meeting at dd1's school last week about the SEAL curriculum. It was very interesting and I'd be interested to know if any of your schools do this. I think it's a technique that will work well with dd1 and I am trying to use it at home too, though with varying degrees of success. I think it's going to take me a while to get used to it (especially the not saying please bit!) and not to revert to normal 'shouty' behaviour, but I am going to try. I am simplifying massively, but basically there are three steps.

1. State the obvious. E.g. 'Babybell, you haven't got your coat on.' The idea here is to avoid pointless questioning (I do this a lot!) along the lines of 'Why haven't you got your coat on? Don't you realise that we're all ready to go to school? Do you want to get soaking wet? What do you think you're doing? Do you think we've got all day? Blah blah blah-dee blah?'.

2. If this doesn't elicit a response move to stating the behaviour that you want. Don't phrase it as a question and don't say 'please'. Rather, say 'thank you'. The idea here is that 'please' sounds as if you are pleading (see above, re. questioning) whereas 'thank you' implies a positive response. Hence: 'Babybell, put your coat on now. Thank you.'

3. If the first two steps don't work you move to the vocabulary of choice. 'Babybell, you can choose to put your coat on now, or you can choose not to. But if you choose not to, we will be late for school and you will also be choosing to [insert 'punishment of choice' - e.g. spend an extra five minutes practising your spellings tonight]'. The idea is to make them understand the idea of rights and responsibilities. I'm not sure I'm explaining this well... I'll google and see if I can find a better explanation.

Anyway, I think that this will work well with dd1, even just at step 1, because she most often doesn't even realise that she's not doing what I want her to be doing. She is just genuinely lost in whatever fantasy world she's in at the time.... Anyway, watch this space... I'm going SEAL-hunting!

DS is the same as yours Indignatio "deciding what to write could take all morning". He was just doing his homework which he wanted to do and it was hilarious how he kept going off at a tangent and talking about totally unrelated stuff. It seemed to take him ages but when he actually did it, it was fantastic (imo ) Quite frankly I'm pretty amazed that 5 year olds are expected to do joined up writing but maybe my memory's gone!

I too am more concerned about the social stuff Sphil. It is encouraging to hear you have cracked play dates. If I remember correctly your DS is a bit older than mine? We had one last week (instigated by the other mother as always - going off at a tangent here but she actually had a mild dig at me about not being pushy enough with DS!). Anyway it was totally great (imo again!) but after about an hour DS really wanted to do his own thing. I whipped them all into the kitchen for tea but any other suggestions for dealing with this?

Another thing: not sure how you all feel about alternative stuff, but anyway ... I felt a bit desperate and took DS to a homeopath in early Oct as he seemed to be getting one ear infection/virus after another. He's not been ill at all since. I've also been taking him to a cranial osteopath. Now it could be total coincidence/age etc, but the overall difference in him is quite incredible. Extremely calm, focussed, "hardest working child in his class" according to teacher, understanding/language has flourished. His anxieties appear to have vanished, he told me last week "I'm not frightened of anything" - the list used to be endless: rain, dogs, pigeons(!), a crane one day, an aeroplane the next. I don't wish to bang on, but ...

Sorry for ramblings. Wonder where DS gets it from?!

Yep, spacing a problem here too. Do you do that thing of getting him to imagine a nice round letter "a" in the gap between each word? It seems to help ds, as it's a bit more tangible than "don't squish it all up".

(I suspect I would get War and Peace in a computer-minutes economy. I wonder if I should try it ...)

Oh we get the no spaces too. However sometimes he realises that he hasnt left a space and rubs out all that he has done and we have to go through the torture all over again. I know 12 sentences sound good but I think they all started with "I will" . he wanted to write about going fishing with his Dad and he wanted to write "I will catch a big one " lots of times having forgotten that he had written it already. So a start middle and end to a story is a while off yet. However am pleased that he stayed on the task for as long as he did. We get the lunging too. Dt2 never sits down properly. He sort of leans across the table with legs on the chair. I put it down to not having a proper desk for him but I suspect he is like that at school too.

' the next word right NEXT to it'. Maybe the OT can give me typing lessons...

I wish in a way that DS1 would take more pride in how his writing looks. He sort of lunges at the paper - there's very little sense of placing the pencil on the page and controlling it. If he makes a mistake he either tries to write over it or crosses out and then starts the next word right to it without a space. I'm very aware of the danger of promoting neatness over creativity and flow - but atm we don't really have either. I'm hoping the OT will have some ideas.

However, he tells me that he's been 'moved up a handwriting level' at school (whatever that means). And that his teacher is always telling him he's doing well. The meeting tomorrow will be very interesting!

12 sentences! I think someone would have to revive me if that happened

Thats a good idea about the writing sentences Sphil. I do that with spellings, i.e you can have such and such if you do 3 spellings for me. Must try that with the writing. Actually Dt2 said on Sunday he wanted to write 12 sentences and I thought Oh yeah right. However he did and he did them well although he is not great at the creative and imaginative sort of sentences. Still for the first time ever I had to say "you have done enough". I imagine its a one off though and i am going to try and encourage content as well as quantity going forward. His handwriting is not bad but if he makes a mistake at all or doesnt like the look of a letter he wrote he has to rub it out and then loses the flow. DT2 has started another 6 weeks of physio after having 6 sessions in the summer. He had an individual assessment after the first 6 and he seemed to be able to do all the age appropriate things that he had to do. This series of sessions will be it as far as I can tell.

Oh good - glad this thread has been revived (even if it has taken me two weeks to wake up to the fact!)

My first hopes and dreams for DS1 are exactly the same as Bink's first three: sporty stuff (especially ball skills), bike without stabilisers - actually WITH stabilisers first- and writing.

Am a bit peed off with school in fact - they have been promising OT input for writing since October. I haven't chased it up until now (DS2 is transferring to m/s from special school next month and we've been busy organising that). Anyway, I arranged a meeting for this week to see DS1's teacher and lo and behold, he came home yesterday saying he'd had a session with the OT TA.

I've found a good way to encourage him to write at home though. Each time he wants to go on the computer he has to write me a sentence (any sentence he likes) in a special exercise book. I then give him an amount of time based on spelling, punctuation, neatness etc. So far he's only written 'Please can I go on the computer?' but I'm going to start giving extra time for imaginative, creative sentences with good vocab etc. In two days he's moved from 'ples can i goonthe comput'
to 'Please can I go on the computer?' and best of all he's doing it willingly and even (dare I say it) happily.

One very positive thing though - I think he's finally cracked playdates. The last two we've had have been realy good - no input from me needed at all, no wandering off and playing on his own, good reciprocal play and conversation, arguments negotiated himself etc. Tbh I care about this more than all the other stuff put togther!

OK - hopes and dreams for this term for ds:-

1.To lose the silly baby voice he uses on occasions (this seems to be an age trait rather than a dreamy one)
2.To be able to quickly think of 3 sentences when he needs to write/type something. The writing he is really quite good at, spelling is excellent, but deciding what to write could take all morning.
3.To convince his teacher that I am not making it up when I say that he is good at maths. Thus hopefully having the knock on effect of him being given some ability (rather than age) related maths to do at school.
4. Use Bink's two words strategy to ensure the message has been received

Notes to self to help ds
1. Make sure he is listening before asking him to do anything
2. Do not bark orders over shoulder whilst exiting the room
3. Cut down the use of the threat of less time on the PS2 - not sure about this one as it may naturally lead to cutting down the use of extra time as a reward
4. Use Bink's two words strategy to ensure the message has been received

Bike riding (without stabalisers) I shall save until the weather warms up.

Bumping for hippipotomi...

Hi Bink and everyone else. Havent posted much here lately as I'm not sure I have anything new to add but I like the idea of having hopes and dreams. Dt2 is doing ok. I had parents meeting in October and teacher said he had made progress but still has problems getting stuff done. He is getting some reading and maths support twice a week which is good. He was doing ok with reading but I think last term saw a lot of children including Dt1 really taking off in terms of becoming fluent and free readers. Dt2 finds it hard to stay focussed on a book . Although he knows or could sound out words , once he has read a number of pages his focus goes and he loses the plot a bit.
Teacher says he is good at spellings.He is a bit funny on spellings. For example if I say spell "night" he may get it right but he may say "nite". However if I say what word is
"n-i-g-h-t" he would always get it right.
Also say,he reads a sentance with "night" he may not recognise it but if I say"spell it out" he will know what it is.
Sometimes he could get all his spellings right but if I ask him to reread them, he wouldnt always recognise them especially the ones that are not easy to sound out. i wondered if that was related to the visual processing problem that was being discussed on the thread sphil started about writing , although if I remember correctly her Ds is a good reader. Anyway enough rambling
My hopes for dt2 are for him to:

improve his listening skills and be able to finish tasks unprompted

become more fluent at reading

become more assertive with Dt1 and not allow him to always be the boss

DT has started a second lots of Physio sessions. I think he is doing well in this area. He had a one to one session with the physio after the first sessions and she did age appropriate tasks with him and he seemed to be able to do them all. They are giving him a second lot of sessions but that will be it for a while anyway. Despite the experts saying that giving the physical side of things more attention , it doesnt seem to have done much for the concentration side of things. However he can do things like " copy a sequence of 3 and 4 actions " like "hop, throw and ball etc. Whatever he did it was age appropriate anyway which was surprising

I'll stop now

Welcome to a new term!
Er, I said WELCOME. Um ... are you listening? What are you drawing? Well, put it down. Down ... Ears on now? Excellent.

I thought it might be nice to reignite our thread by saying what hopes & fears we have for our dreamers this term - a sort of objective-setting, & then we can report on how things go?

I'll start: the end of last term was funnily mixed for us. Ds had a nearly-glowing report, and won the class cup (for big improvements in "socially appropriate behaviour" - which sounded a bit po-facedly technical read out at a prize-giving, but is indeed true ) - but, just a few weeks before that, the follow-on school we hoped he'd go on to said (after he'd done a trial day there) that they'd take him only with a full-time shadow. Which was a bit depressing.

So we are still a bit in limbo, but with the nice feeling that his current school are enjoying him (and with a meeting planned with the other school, so we can see exactly what they think their issues are).

In that light, my hopes/plans for him this term are:

- to do more sporty things;
- to learn to ride a bike;
- to get into the swing of writing properly (stories, comprehension); and possibly
- to find a French club so that he can catch up a bit (it was in a French class at the other school where he was hardest work).

AlisonC, I am not sure I can specially help, other than to say - join us and read all about the other dreamers & chair-fallers-off - my best ideas are often stray inspirations sparked off by other people's posts.

I don't know anything accurate about French schools, but I know the common view is that educational expectations are more rigid & conformist than in the UK - could it be that it's just a setting which doesn't suit her, rather than being a bigger issue? It will be interesting to see what the teacher says when you speak to her.

If there is a bigger issue here, the only thing I am sure of from our experience, & talking to others, is that improvement does come, but slowly - be ready to be very very patient.

And - as encouragement - there is a lovely old thread somewhere on MN where posters themselves said whether or not they were dreamy, vague, distracted children - and I have to say that many of my favourite (clever, perceptive, articulate) people on here turned out to have been exactly that kind of child. (The time for emerging from the fog tended to be puberty.)

**Next I'm going to do a separate post on rejuvenating this thread for the new term.**

Alison, it has occured to me that DS3 might acquire a label of ADD were I to go looking for one. As would I, both my parents and at least two of my grandparents, all of whom have held down good jobs and do not have major mental health problems or addictions etc. As DS3 makes far more progress and is happier when treated as capable and given responsibility rather than when regarded as someone with a "problem", I'm steering well clear.

Can I gatecrash please?

I've read (most of!) this thread with interest but there's an awful lot to absorb.

I wondered if anyone else had a child like my dd, and could offer any opinions, or experience, or really any helpful suggestions of any sort.

DD is 6 and is currently in the equivalent of UK Year 3 in a French school (she is in a class one year ahead of her peer group). She is doing very well academically. However we have had constant comments, really since she started school, that she does not pay attention, is easily distracted, spends a lot of the time in a dreamworld, talks too much, and fidgets a lot (falling off chairs is her speciality). Up until now teachers have been prepared to put it down to age but based on her last report (have yet to speak to the teacher) it seems to be becoming more problematic.

At home she is capable of sustained concentration in some circumstances (especially if reading or doing arty/ crafty activities) but otherwise she is easily distracted, concentrates poorly, is very disorganised, and is generally a rather "difficult" child (impulsive, flies off the handle at the slightest provocation, poor loser, bad at taking turns, talks over people etc).

We are starting to wonder whether she has the inattentive type of ADHD.

Does this description ring any bells with anyone?

Hello and Happy Christmas.

Just wrote and then lost a long post about dd1. Will do the short version now.... was just saying how great she was in her Christmas play tonight. She managed coordinated dancing and everything and only 'went dreamy' at the end when she was tired. (She was the angel staring off into the middle distance, facing to the side rather than to the front and forgetting to sing, with her halo slightly askew .)

Overall she's doing well, though she announced last week that she thought she was the most unpopular girl in Year 3 (typically, she had given it a lot of consideration and thought that there might be a boy or two even less popular than her). Was a bit , but I think that these things come and go even with kids who are less ... how can I put it? ... exhausting to be around than dd1. She seems happy overall, though, and her teachers are fab, which helps a lot.

She has got a DS lite for Christmas, but her use of it will be severely limited and I will carefully vet what games she gets. She has also got 'Twister' (should be hysterical!) and lots of books and things. What she asked for? All she wanted was 'a piece of art'. Quirky as ever! She hasn't got one, but her request was prompted by an art shop opening up in our town, and I am thinking of getting her something for her room for her birthday.

Happy Christmas to all you dreamers.

Yours and others posters just sound like lovely normal little people at school to me. Enjoy the holidays!

Hi all. I posted here a while ago now about my dd (now4.11) She has settled into full time school very well and is really enjoying it. She has some TA support. My concerns at the moment are at home. Her focus on anything(about from TV!) is terrible and she has a gang of imaginary friends who are driving me to distraction. She never seems to be in the real world. Help! Will this soon pass?

No - I looked at that one but bought a normal earth one in the end. I was worried the ants would get all sticky!

katepol, see my very lengthy post of 19 March (on first page of thread) for DS3's details. We did have a spreadsheet (e-mailed to contributors only for obvious privacy reasons) giving ages and idiosyncrasies of some of the children on this thread, but I doubt I have the latest version (mine has four children on it). If someone can find the latest version, would you like to join in?

DS3 (age 8, year 4) didn't ask for anything in particular for Christmas. He will be getting a computer game (a castle simulation one) and a Rubik's Cube (with handy instruction booklet). We don't have a PS, Nintendo or Wii and have every intention of continuing to avoid them.

sphil, are you getting that lovely space-age ant farm with the blue gel? (I'm afraid we have the little blighters living free-range in the kitchen wall...not an ant-farm escape, don't worry).

Bionicle figures, Zoob Car Designer, an ant farm and Lego Star Wars for the PC because mean mummy won't let him have a PS, Nintendo or Wii yet.

Aargh! I meant hear, not here.

(plus bump the thread of course)

Hello Sphil, Hallegarda and castles.
Very good to here this thread appears to be losing its relevance to you all .
Would it be possible for you to do a little recap as I can't properly remember the ages and idiosyncracies of your dcs?
My dd (age 6 Yr 2) is having a 'better' phase at the moment, but still not what other people think of as 'normal' iykwim? She is much happier at school now than at the beginning of the year and I am enjoying seeing her increasing independence and emotional maturity. She still seems incapable of not falling over and not chewing stuff, but on the other hand is champing at the bit to be allowed to read the 4th HP book, so some of her brain wiring is in the right place
Just out of interest, what have you bought/what have your dcs asked for presents for Christmas?

Hi Sphil and Hallegarda. Glad to hear everything is going so well. The Joseph story made me chuckle. Sound's just like my DS! Same here re improvement and therefore not updating thread. Also the pre-christmas chaos. DS also has an Alpha male friend. Mr Popular so it's doing his street-cred a lot of good
We've also been told that he's probably not going to need any help at all next year because he's doing so well. I keep thinking back to how things were (in every aspect of the castle household) this time last year, and I feel like doing a little jig

Hello sphil - I'm still around, and not too immersed in Christmas. Lovely to hear that your DS is Joseph . My DS3 has an alpha male friend too - unfortunately, said friend tries to start a fight every time he meets DS1, which puts me off arranging too many playdates.

Things are going quite well in general, which is why I haven't posted on this thread for a while. A sympathetic teacher who isn't constantly looking for problems has made a huge difference.

Where are you all? Immersed in Christmas?

Happy Christmas dreamers! Just thought I'd bump this so everyone can give an update.

DS1 is fine - making good progress in fact, though still struggling a bit with handwriting. The school has been great for his confidence and social skills though. He had a very confident 'Alpha male' friend round for tea this week and I was delighted with the way the two of them played together. DS1 didn't go off and play on his own once! He's Joseph in the Christmas play, much to my shock.He said " I put my hand up for Joseph because I know it's an important part and Mrs X told us he only had three lines". Typical DS - wants the highest profile with the least amount of effort.

katepol, I'm so glad to hear that matters are improving. DS3 has been getting on well with his piano lessons and swimming. He is also taking rather more responsibility for organizing himself, and making a rather better job of not forgetting things than DS2.

On the brain gym point, I'm a sceptic over the pseudoscience element (no, the water doesn't get to the brain faster if you hold it next to the roof of your mouth...), but can see the advantages to our children of the choreographed fidgeting aspect (though there are other ways for the school to do that which would either be cheaper or have other virtues).

Resurrecting (or monopolising) this thread!

We have some progress! Since parents eve, we have been getting dd (age 6 Yr 2) to practice writing - the quicker she does it, the more reading time she gets afterwards. The writing has been of variable quality, but in general much better than it was. It has shown us that she consistently uses capitals and full stops and exclamation marks. She quite often uses commas, and also uses brackets (although she didn't know WHAT they were, she knew how to use them - picked that up from reading no doubt). All good stuff.

I told her not to worry about her spelling, but to get the words down - that has certainly helped her - I think she was freezing on difficult words and then tuning out.

Today dd told me that her teacher was very impressed with her writing said she thought 'someone has waved a magic wand over your writing', and subsequently moved her back to her top set. DD is very pleased with herself. She has also moved back up in maths.

It does seem like the parents eve and the phone conversation dh had with the teacher has opened the teacher's eyes to dd's ability, which she was happy to hide before!

DD has now had the 2nd and 3rd Harry Potter to read for trying her best at school, and today said writing was fun <<thud>>!

Am crossing things that this will last. DD actually seems happier at school now, and we are relieved the teacher is keeping an eye. Oddly enough, her swimming is improving at lot at the moment too, and she is concentrating more them too .

How is everyone else doing? - including old timers who are dreaming less these days...

Iwearflaires - you sound like you have a good thing there with your OT, and it must be a relief the nursery are being constructive. How possible do you/they think it is that a LA can be used for (say) an hour a day? Having support for your ds to help him cope with the obvious overload of a typical nursery room does sound like it is essential, and hopeful give him strategies he can learn to use on his own...

Castles - I thought your DS was older than my dd1 - doh! I recognise what you say about an extra adult in the class making a big difference. I am no great fan of the private sector, but the idea of a class size of 16 is very appealing when I think about dd1 (dd2 less so - she is one of the 'me, me, me!' kinds ). I have seen myself how the class is 'easier' when there are 25 in it rather than 30, so just 16...
Bit bizarre about the statement not starting till next term? Sooo, he doesn't have needs yet but will in a few months time??

Grr!
Castles and Iwearflairs, I replied to both of you jut after I posted my last message. My PC crashed and has only just let me log on to the net. Apols. I am not ignoring you and will try again this eve when children are in bed...

Thanks for your support ladies. I am a little calmer now, and telling myself that hopefully now that the teacher is more aware of how dd1 operates, she will approach her differently.
I supppose it was difficult for the teacher, having a child described to her that she did not recognise from her judgement in class. DD1's teacher last year didn't really get her either, although her reception teacher did (twas lovely!). Interestingly, her reception techer was really keen on brain gym. Her Yr1 and Yr2 teachers don't use it .
I have spoken to several other parents about the parent's eve. I'd say about half are also unhappy for various reasons. DD1's teacher certainly has areas of improvement in terms of her ability to communicate. Seeveral parents came out feeling like they had done something wrong, or otherwise nonthewiser about how their child ws doing.

Rant over. Will see how it goes in the firts couple of weeks after halfterm. DP tells me that things may well change now dd1's teacher is more aware. If not, I am not sure what we do, if anything.

katepol - I was also disappointed for you to hear that the teacher was so untuned to your dd1, but it's good to have the opportunity to meet her again and put her fully in the picture. I really hope it goes well.

castles - coincidence: I recently spoke to a special needs teacher who swears by the Brain Gym - and to save you the bother - www.braingym,org.uk and www.bbbooks.co.uk who supply the books. It is supposed to be fantastic and to help with concentration, focus and listening skills, as well as speech and language skills and behaviour. There are seminars as well as books. The woman I spoke to also really rates Tony Buzan's Mind Mapping as a visual key to language.

I also had a meeting this week with DS's nursery. It started out very badly as DS had begun that morning's session by hurling his activity on the floor and then flinging himself on the floor. I am so worried about the pattern that is emerging and don't know how to help. I decided to at least ask how they would see a learning assistant - it's clear that they can't cope and nor can DS as things are. As long as there's a balance, so that he can grow out of his reliance on adults as well as having someone to help before he reaches the explosion, I actually think it might be a good idea. So his OT is going to come and do an observation to work out where the problems what his IEP should be exactly - and so work out where an LA would fit in best, and not for every whole session, and just to step in when needed, which seems reasonable to everyone. If it's an hour a day, or something like that, it will be affordable and might be just what DS needs to start fitting in.

In the meantime am going to look into state nursery and see if it would be a better option in case the plan goes pear-shaped for any reason, but on the whole I feel the nursery is trying to be positive now that they can see a solution.

Sorry this is so long!

I agree with others Katepol (and sorry to hear it didn't go so well), it just shows what a difference a teacher can make.

In answer to the questions re DS (thanks btw) he is 5.8 and in yr 1. Yes, maggie, he does have a dx of language disorder (understanding) and a statement that comes into effect next term! The whole class benefitted though from a spare LSA (who was meant to support someone in reception who didn't show up). It just goes to show how having an extra adult in a class of 30 can help, particularly when there are 2 really disruptive boys in DS's class; the reason they were so keen to make use of the 'spare' LSA (long story).

Re. the language dx, his understanding has improved so much I wonder if he might just be one of those 'late developers'? I saw a homeopath the other day (someone on here recommended it, sorry can't remember who!) and she mentioned 'Brain Gym' for our dreamer types. Does anyone know/have experience of this? It's particularly useful for coordination etc, especially DS who never crawled so didn't make use of the early left/right exercises for the brain. Will find link if anyone is interested.

Oh Katepol - I'm so sorry about the teacher. I think the recent spate of parents' evenings has really brought it home to me how critical the teacher is in all of this. Next year - yr 2 we are due to meet one of the type you describe.

Perhaps she will think long and hard about all you said. This should be evident at the next meeting. Do you have an examples of "work" your dd has done at home to take in for the next meeting and produce if your word is challenged.

Be strong, believe in your dd and I'm sure you can get others to believe in her too.

Katepol, sorry your meeting didnt go that well. The lack of interest thing and having to check what groups your Dd was in would annoy me. If she doesnt know what groups she is in how can she claim to be surprised that your DD can read HP? However your dd does seem very bright and as she used to be in the top sets for everything, you know she has it in her. Hopefully you have given the teacher something to think about before your next meeting

Sorry to hear your parents' night hasn't gone so well, katepol. But it is clear that your daughter has it in her to do well, and at some point she will surely find it worth her while to put in the extra effort. It will also be more in the school's interest to encourage her after the KS1 SATs are out of the way. It is possible that you have made the teacher think about her first impression, even if her outward appearance has given nothing away.

Okay, so dd1’s parent’s evening…

Background is that her teacher has a reputation for being a bit sour-faced, with a strict attitude. It didn’t overly bother me, as I think dd1 might benefit from a stricter approach, and I am generally able to build rapport with most people.

However, dd1’s teacher was totally impenetrable. Offered very little info, except to say that dd1 ‘seemed fine’. As she seemed to have nothing to say, we said that we had concerns. In fact, I started off saying it, but my dp had to continue as I found her complete lack of response (verbal, body language etc) very off-putting and quite intimidating.

Anyway, we said that we were concerned that despite dd1 being described as bright and capable and yet not working close to her potential (her Yr 1 report), this year dd1 told us that she had moved down ability groups and was happy as the work was now ‘easier’, ‘easier than last year’, and that was ‘good because it means I finish quicker and can go and choose a book to read’. The teacher had to then check her notes to see which groups dd1 was in, and it looks like she has gone down either one or two ability groups.

We also said that while she gave the impression of not knowing the answers, she really was able to do it, just reluctant and not bothered. We told her that dd1 had just read Harry Potter (over 3 nights/mornings), and the teacher basically said that she was very surprised and suggested that dd1 was not reading it ‘properly’ and not understanding it. Why would a 6 yr old (who is currently re-reading it because she says it was really good and she wanted to go back to Hogwarts again ) bother reading it (twice) if she wasn’t getting anything out of it? I got dd1 to give me a synopsis, and it was pretty good, and she was quoting actual text from memory as well as retelling in her own words some of the funny bits. The teacher in fact suggested we get dd1 to read it out loud so we could check. That would be a fine way to kill interest – would you want to read HP out loud?!

So, basically, her teacher has pegged dd1 from her first impression. Average student, not really noticeable in class, doesn’t contribute much. Bland, bland, can safely be ignored. GRRR!

So, obviously we are not happy. We have asked her for another meeting, but what also worries me is the teacher's apparent lack of interest (in anything), and the fact we can’t talk to her constructively.

I am hoping she takes on board what we said and digs a little with dd1. However, I fear in the class of 30, with some children who require a LOT of attention, and several who DEMAND a lot of attention, dd1 will once again be allowed to sideline herself….

Sorry this is so long. Just to add, we were by no means the only parents to encounter this attitude from the teacher. It contrasts so much with our friendly, positive talk with dd2’s teacher, which happened ten minutes earlier...

Castles - great to hear another success story! Remind me how old your DS is, as I am clinging on to the 'they get better as they get older' theory... Seriously though, it all sounds very positive - a relief for you I am sure.
Lovely to hear about your dd1 too - bless!

Maggie - I am with you in the camp. We have had our parents eve, and it went worse than I had anticipated. Will post about in when I have finished sorting dinner.

Castles what a great turnaround! I was reading back over some of your posts and all his problems seem to have faded. I remember you being concerned about his language processing and I think you actually had a diagnosis and were hoping for a statement. If you dont mind me asking does he still have problems in this area? I imagine if he did you would not have had such a positive outcome last night. I'm just interested as Dt2 sounded quite similiar to your Ds some time ago.

Indignatio - fantastic outcome for you too. Your DS sounds very bright indeed. You dont sound like you have anything to worry about at all.

I love hearing the positive stories but feeling a bit as my meeting is on Monday and I know that although Dt2 has progressed my tale wont be anyway as positive as what I've seen here

That's great, castlesintheair

Another very positive parents evening here last night. DS is concentrating very hard <clunk>, extremely focussed <clunk>, better at maths than reading (he's an above average reader) <clunk>, behaviour is impeccable, has several solid friendships ... in fact his new teacher didn't have one negative thing to say about him It's such a turnaround and we feel so encouraged, I actually felt like I might be able to fly this morning And then (major boast here!!) DD1 (3) was 1 of the only 5 at preschool (65 children) who can write her name and I didn't even know she could. Really brought me down to earth with a bump how massively focused I am on DS and his problems.

Wow at your parents evening Indignatio - that sounds fab. Looks like your ds's teacher actually understands, and is prepared to do something to help . Good to hear that the social side of things are good too - that is so important for their self esteem.

As for the digging thing - my dd1 is like that! Give her a maths question - she either says don't know without actually thinking about it, or just gives you a random number. Tell her to think about it, and she will (sigh and roll her eyes) get it right, and when she gets into the swing of things she is great...

I suspect her teacher has been taken in by this 'I don't know the answer' trick, and dd1 is happy to not be challenged...

We are going to say that as at 6 she is able and motivated enough to read Harry Potter, there is something going on behind the vacant countenence she sometimes has...hmm...

indignatio, I'm so glad to hear your meeting went well. Amazing what a difference a sympathetic teacher can make.

iwearflairs, I'd worry far less about a one-off moving schools/moving house upheaval than a daily struggle against the system. Do take a look at your local state school nursery if you haven't already - you may be pleasantly surprised. Certainly, if ours is anything to go by, they'll be very supportive of the OT sessions (none of my children had OT, but plenty of others there did, or had speech therapy etc.). They can't turn you or your child away for not fitting in - they're there for everyone. (For brighter children, scruffy state is often preferable to upmarket state - more inclined to allow for various differences without getting jumpy about how they may affect the school's results.)

Katpol - digging for brilliance.

With ds I am constantly amazed at what he knows and what he says he doesn't know.

He seems to have learnt that if you say I don't know (IDK) to a question, you don't therefore have to answer it. He has therefore decided to take the lazy/easy way out and answer I don't know to most questions. This he took a stage further in a maths lesson the other week and wrote down the answer 1 for all the questions. This way, he figured, he could stop doing the maths and go and do something more interesting instead. You can imagine that this did not go down well at home when the story was relayed.

If you don't accept the IDK and tell him that he does know, he will happily give you, or work out the answer.

WRT flashes of brilliance. I spent 2 minutes explaining the concept of division (maths rather than racial) on the walk home from school. Later I included two division sums on his maths sheet. 100 divided by 10 and 45 divided by 9. I did this to see whether he had understood what I had been saying, or just Yes Mummying me. Well, he reached the two sums and said "What was division again ?" I replied, "What do you think the question is asking you ?" He said "How many 10's are there in a hundred...Oh that's easy 10". He then proceeded to do the other sum correctly with no further imput from me.

Thanks for the thoughts.

The meeting actually went brilliantly. The teacher started by saying ds is so so bright (in reverential tones) and so that got us off to a flying start. She proceeded to list all subjects and that he was doing brilliantly in each (including trying very hard in Art - genetically his talents may not lie in that direction). So masses of praise followed by BUT she did not think that he was fullfilling his potential as he was very slow to get down to work and easily distracted whilst doing it - so she did not think that she was seeing all he was capable of.

At this stage I could have kissed the woman. She really seems to have him pegged.

She told us what she had been trying to do to combat the dreaminess:-
Praise and stickers when he concentrated.
Keeping him in a break to finish work when he didn't.

I was a little shocked at the latter (the poor kid was only 5 at the end of July) and did manage to detail the sucess we were having at home ie a rewards based system. We came up with several ideas of what might be suitable rewards for ds in class for getting on with it - we did agree that the chances of Yr 1 having a PS2 installed in the classroom were nil.

Socially, her view is that ds has a lot of friends in class and can happily flit from one fluid group to another. She also said that he was perfectly happy with his own company. This also seems to be a great improvement on the previous year. Last year the teacher was very negative WRT his social skills. Having said that, he is to be part of some scheme where groups of children "talk to the teddy" and it is hoped that this will improve his listening and concentrating skills. He certainly doesn't need to up the amount he talks !

iwearflairs - good luck for your meeting too. It must be some comfort that at least you have some input, so your concerns are being addressed in some way, and while your ds is very young too. Hope the nursery are able to be supportive to you and your ds. Let us know...

Indignatio - how did it go tonight?

Hello again. Looking forward to hearing how things go for your DC Indignatio and Katepol.

Hallgerda - thanks very much for your post. I vacillate between fearing the worst at meeting with the nursery on Thursday and wondering if we might actually be able to have a real discussion. I have a sinking feeling that the latter is wishful.

I really appreciate your suggestion that we just take him out of it. It's very tempting. I am worried about doing it because we are quite likely to be relocating to Australia in 6-8 months and if I take him out, it will be two disruptions instead of one and in a way I think we should try to find a suitable plan as a first resort, but it might not be that simple, as above.

We got the assessment from the OT on Monday. He dx'd Sensory Processing Disorder - he has gross and fine motor skills way below average, motor planning difficulties as well as the auditory sensitivity. It's good to know where we can help and it also explains the frustration he feels all the time. He's going to have two sessions a week with a therapist he really likes, so I am v encouraged by this but not sure, again, how the nursery will respond to the news...

Indignatio - thanks for that. Would be v interested in your 'digging deeper' experiences...

Books are the currency for dd1, without a doubt. Excellent really, but a problem when she doesn't sleep enough because she reads late at night, reads the minute she wakes up, and has been known to read if she wakes in the MIDDLE of the night. Not great for concentration the next day...

Pleased you have had success with your DS with PS2 rewards, but my dd1 is very inconsistent. On minute she can spell and write very neatly, the next day she is looping all over the page and making really simple mistakes. I can't work out what is different on the 'better' days, but it is also hard to judge 'progress'.

DD1 can get distracted when it is one on one at home. She drops the pen, starts picking up fluff, her hair gets in the way, she hears a dog bark, remembers something she needs to tell me etc etc. No wonder she can't get her a*se in gear in the classroom!

She was saying tonight that now she isn't in the top set, the work is easier than last year (and she said this with a shy smile), but she is quite happy about this .

Am anxious about being seen as a pushy parent, but really want to say to her teacher 'she IS bright - you just don't see it unless you push', but doubt I will lol!

Ta for the empathy. Will update after parents eve.

Sorry - that WAS long!

Hope all is going/has gone well katepol and Indignatio. Let us know how it goes.
Katepol - also loved your description of your DD

Thanks Hallgerda - will let you all know how it goes

Welcome everyone.

Katepol, I loved your description of your dd and also empathise with not pushing self, happy to coast and flashes of brilliance - provided you probe hard enough.

As a self confessed pushy parent (couldn't say it out loud in RL, but OK on here) I have been working with ds on his concentration span and "not getting down to it itus". What makes ds tick is (unfortunately) playing on his PS2. In this household this is a privilege not a right SO he has to do some work before he gets time on the PS2. If he has no actual homework then I set something for him to do. This has worked really well WRT getting down to it and concentrating on it as he knows that he does not get to play on the PS2 until he has finished. It has also had the knock on effect of improving his handwriting immeasureably. This has also helped him as the tasks before him are no longer so daunting.

As an example, we had complete meltdown at the beginning of the summer holidays when he was asked to write "Happy Birthday" in his cousin's card - It was too difficult, too hard for me, cue weeping and wailing an gnashing of teeth. Last week ds was in trouble for talking at carpet time. I arranged for him to write a letter to the teacher apologising for this. The letter was 43 words long and he just got on with it and didn't stop until it was finished - Less than 15 minutes. I was so proud of him and how far he has come in the last few months.

At school it may however be a different story. As ds is an only child, it is quiet when he "works" at home. I am always there to answer questions immediately and there are very few distractions. Compare this to what must surely happen at school, so perhaps it is not surprising that concentrating is more difficult there.

I've wittered on for long enough - will post soon regarding my empathy in respect of digging deeper for the true picture of what a child knows.

Thanks Hallgerda - will let you all know how it goes

Welcome everyone.

Katepol, I loved your description of your dd and also empathise with not pushing self, happy to coast and flashes of brilliance - provided you probe hard enough.

As a self confessed pushy parent (couldn't say it out loud in RL, but OK on here) I have been working with ds on his concentration span and "not getting down to it itus". What makes ds tick is (unfortunately) playing on his PS2. In this household this is a privilege not a right SO he has to do some work before he gets time on the PS2. If he has no actual homework then I set something for him to do. This has worked really well WRT getting down to it and concentrating on it as he knows that he does not get to play on the PS2 until he has finished. It has also had the knock on effect of improving his handwriting immeasureably. This has also helped him as the tasks before him are no longer so daunting.

As an example, we had complete meltdown at the beginning of the summer holidays when he was asked to write "Happy Birthday" in his cousin's card - It was too difficult, too hard for me, cue weeping and wailing an gnashing of teeth. Last week ds was in trouble for talking at carpet time. I arranged for him to write a letter to the teacher apologising for this. The letter was 43 words long and he just got on with it and didn't stop until it was finished - Less than 15 minutes. I was so proud of him and how far he has come in the last few months.

At school it may however be a different story. As ds is an only child, it is quiet when he "works" at home. I am always there to answer questions immediately and there are very few distractions. Compare this to what must surely happen at school, so perhaps it is not surprising that concentrating is more difficult there.

I've wittered on for long enough - will post soon regarding my empathy in respect of digging deeper for the true picture of what a child knows.

Thanks Hallgerda
I think incentives may well be the thing. At the mo, we can't get her to care about what she is doing, but rewards may well motivate her (she learned to ride a bike without stablisers on the promise of a new book a few months ago).
Not sure if the school can do that. They aren't really into rewards anyway (very infrequent use of stickers, certificates tend to be only for those children who really have issues etc).
I suppose it is a bit much to expect a Yr 2 child to care about how well they are doing, when all they want to do is play with the fairies...
I think I need to get a grip too. I am frustrated that she isn't 'applying' herself. Maybe it WILL come with time, and I just need to relax about the fact she isn't showing what she is caopable of yet.
Ta!

Indignatio, all the best for tomorrow .

katepol, I hope your parents night goes better than you expect. I'd ask the teacher to give your dd honest and direct feedback, and to try to encourage her to take responsibility (could she have a job, or a part in something, that she could take a pride in doing well?). You could ask for extra attention from a classroom assistant, which might improve your dd's work in the short term, but it might also lead to her taking less responsibility for herself.

At home, you could get her to do some sums, with a reward for getting most or all correct and neat, or handwriting practice (reward an absence of horrid scribbling out); both should improve the simple mistakes problem (if you think that sounds dreadful, so did I, but it did work ). Work towards doing tasks more quickly. (If you're thinking the school really should do all that, well, so do I, but they probably won't... )

Plea for words of wisdom ladies...

Have parent's eve this week. Expect to be told that dd's lack of focus is holding her back, but no suggestion of what the school (and us at home) can do to improve or mitigate this.

So, what strategies have helped your dcs? I am thinking in terms of :-
tuning out unless in very small group,
not getting started,
getting bogged down on detail,
making simple mistakes which disguise true ability, and discourage further effort.

It is so annoying that dd is bright, and really capable when in full flow. Getting her there is bl**dy hard though. Obviously the teacher is constrained by class size, but any suggestions gratefully received...

Ta!

Some of the children described here are probably going to be the ones who push medical science a bit further or write the music we will weep over (in the best sense) in years to come.

Hello and welcome, iwearflairs.

I've read your other thread in G&T, and note that it's a private nursery, and that you'd have to pay for the 1-1. I'd get out, to somewhere that doesn't set unreasonable demands of conformity (or social skills, or motor skills) on 3.5 year olds. I'd be very wary of taking seriously any labels the nursery have tried to attach - I really think there's far more wrong with the nursery than with your DS. I had heard Montessori wasn't always a good idea with brighter children, though I have no direct experience. You certainly wouldn't be getting that kind of treatment at a state nursery, except possibly if your son was actively disruptive (by which I mean something a bit stronger than an occasional loud laugh). Even then, I think you would be dealing with home-school books and perhaps the odd social skills session (and maybe being watched a bit more), rather than full time 1-1. I don't think most boys have "real", unmanaged friendships at that age - any playdates I've done for that age group (I have 3 boys) have necessitated some planned activities.

I believe human beings are supposed to be diverse, and some are actually meant to be a bit unusual, and should not be shoehorned into someone else's definition of normality (and that you do have to look at who is making the definition, and in whose interests).

Hello, can I please, belatedly join in?

I've been reading this thread all evening and feel so hopeful and encouraged to read about all these gorgeous children who remind me so much of my DS.

He is 3.5 and does not have a proper paediatric dx, but has been called Aspergers as well as G&T. Increasingly as I read I think he may be dyspraxic more than anything. Defnitely has auditory processing problem/hypersensitive hearing.

Here is what he is like:

ds is 3.5 - March born
Half day nursery.

Finds socialising really tough - doesn't seem to 'get' social cues or how to play, but is really happy when I arrange a playdate for him and seems proud of himself for having had a friend around.
Really at sea at nursery where he doesn't understand group behaviour, e.g overenthusiastic in show and tell and crashes in at the wrong time
has problems with directions, getting around
can listen when he wants to but often gets engrossed or starts talking too much
can't concentrate on things he's not interested but can become engrossed for ages on his favourite things has has meltdowns if asked to detach

Silly made-up language which doesnt seem connected to the real world
Clumsy and way behind in any motor skills or ability to carry out physical tasks.
Bossy and defiant
Isolation at school
Poor eye contact with people other than at home and with friends
Repetition of sentences until he hears the acknowledgement
No herding instinct
Gets very hyper and 'silly' at times


Very affectionate and caring with family and adult friends
Highly articulate (but I wonder about pronunication of 'th')
Exceptional reader and good with numbers
Fantastic but quirky sense of humour - makes up words and names
Kind to younger children and concerned by distress of other children
Not aggressive towards others - but has temper tantrums when cross or frustrated; shouts
A gorgeous sweetie-pie

Not sure I would class him as a dreamer unless he is listening to music. Wierdly, I was sent to an ear test as a child but it turned out I was day-dreaming. I always found it hard to get dressed for school because of day-dreaming.

We have a big week because he had a motor-sensory assessment last week and I get the result on Monday. Followed by an IEP conversation with nursery on Thurs at which I expect them to say he needs one-on-one or else he needs to go somewhere else.

I was told today by an osteopath that cranio-sacral massage can be good for these children.

I think I may have said this before, but for me this thread has been such a source of comfort that I'm sure I've become less anxious around DS1 and this has had a knock-on effect on him. I'm much less bothered by his quirks now that I know they're shared by all your wonderful DCs! And as a result I think I give him more positive and constructive support.

I'm feeling the same singersgirl

DS1 (9, in Y5) seems to be becoming significantly less worrying. Today we had a parent-teacher meeting in which his distractibility and fidgeting weren't mentioned till near the end. He's doing well, in the group that is being 'stretched' in maths (he's very small, so that would be useful ), very imaginative, mature in his approach to work ....

However, he moves around a lot and distracts other children sometimes, and needs to work on presentation. I told the teacher that it was the first year that his books had been legible, so to me his presentation seems fantastic!

Glad that other meetings are going well. I'm beginning to feel a bit of a fraud on this thread.

Sorry - it was Maggiems who asked that question!

I do think the general pattern is that our dreamers seem to improve (or adjust?) as they get older. DS1's speech is less rambly but apparently he speaks quite slowly - I guess because he's realised he needs to be clearer and he's thinking about what he's saying.

Maggiems - it does sound as if DT2 and DS1 are making simialr progress - good news!

Katepol - she didn't say anything about dreaminess or distractibility . Whether he's managing to curb it or whether she just hasn't noticed I don't know. We have noticed much less dreaminess at home as well though.

Thats great Hallgerda especially as your Ds3 is an older "dreamer", it gives me hope. Of course I know thats a selfish attitude and am pleased when all do well but I just so love to hear when the older ones do well

Hallgerda, I was pleased to read about the good parents' evening. Ours is next Tuesday, so I am trying not to assume that it will be the same as last year.

I've just had a good parents' evening (if you can really call it that before 3pm) - so good I could do with some more emoticons, MNTowers - a Cheshire cat grin with ears, and a cloud to walk on, please.


DS3's teacher says he's a delight, pays attention in class, works well (and quickly!), ... a few minor quibbles over neatness, but that's coming on, too.

So I'm very happy.

Hi Sphil - that is very interesting, as what you report is just what I expect my dd's teacher to say next week, alongside dd not keeping focus on tasks...

I can understand the mixed blessing of a laid back teacher - I hope yours knows when to get serious lol!

It is hard, because it sounds quite positive, yet if you are like me, you want to hear something different - like dd is really enthused with being at school, really wants to get involved, and has to be told when to stop, not to actually get started.
Does that make sense?

Maggie - my dd's speech can also be less rambling (this is a recent thing - she is 6.5) , but still infuriating at times. I very rarely get a straight answer to a question, and it drives me mad

It sounds good Sphil, i would be pleased to get that sort of story. Good about the speaking aloud being good. My Dt2's speech has also become less rambling and I think it has coincided with a lot of positive things , like being able to finish work quicker and process instructions better at least at home anyway. Will find out more in a fortnight. What did she say if anything about his distractability ?

Well it was very quick! Just a general chat to flag up any problems. Just heard more of the same stuff I've always heard really - reading good, speaking aloud to class good (apparently not so rambly now ), maths OK-ish, handwriting poor. This is affecting his attainment in all areas, so the teacher said she'll talk to the OT about hand exercises. I think I'll need to keep pushing with her - she's very nice but extremely laid back. In one way this is good - she lets six year olds be six year olds - but I think she might also let things slide.

How'd it go Sphil?

Good luck for your parents eve tomorrow Hallgerda...

All the best for today, sphil

Ooh - I've got parents evening on Wed. We can compare notes!

castlesintheair, DS3, along with my other two children, usually ends the year with a 100% attendance certificate (though that might be partly down to my unsympathetic attitude ). So no link there. I hope your DS gets better soon.

DS3 got a certificate for history on Friday, so things seem to be looking up. First parents' evening of the year is on Thursday, so I'll see what the new teacher has to say then...

Only skimming (as there is so much to read!) but everyone seems to be doing really well at the moment.

DS is off school today with probable tonsillitis/ear infection AGAIN. Are other dreamers prone to these? Someone (a paed?) said they can have a marked effect on listening ability (because they can't hear for a while so don't bother listening when they are better) and behaviour.

Will try and catch up on everything later.

DS1 was taken out for extra help in Reception and Year 1 (in his old school) and liked it for the very same reason. I think for children with high distractibility and possible auditory processing difficulties a quiet atmosphere is very important. Since he's moved to his new school (where the classes are much more controlled) DS1 hasn't complained about the noise once - and interestingly, they don't see the need to give him extra help (though he does have a TA sitting with his writing group most of the time because it's the lowest ability group).

I don't think there's anything wrong with noisy classrooms btw - they just don't suit DS1!

meant to say welcome to all the newbees. Wont say all the names as I will leave someone out! I had not posted much recently as had nothing much to say but I have enjoyed reading all your stories and the similiar traits that many of our Dc's have

just after my last post I discovered that DT2 is now getting some extra help at school.Last year the head said that they hoped to get someone in to do extra work with some of the younger children that needed it. Then at the beginning of term a note came as part of the weekly newsletter to say that Mrs X who is covering Mrs Y's maternity leave would have 2/3 days a week to spend on yr1 and yr2 children that needed help as Mrs Y is on job sharing . Heard no more until today but apparantly Dt2 has had 2 sessions on his own with her. Some others in the other yr2 class have been with her too. He says he likes it as there is no noise and its easier to work. I was becasue he is getting some help and because he needed it. However once I heard from Dt1 that some others were getting some too I didnt feel so bad. Not surprisingly all the ones getting the help are summer born boys. I hope he continues to have the sessions on his own as I really think that will help.

Bink - it sounds like a wonderful school. So glad the meeting was constructive. Isn't it great when teachers are specific about problems rather than waffling?

Well done to little Maggiems - good news about the finishing work. DS1 also seems to be on a positive roll atm. He came home yesterday saying he'd answered a question in assembly - 400 kids - this from a boy who would hardly ever raise his hand in class last year. I think his 'badge award' has given him a real injection of confidence (despite the fact that I lost the back of it on the first morning - luckily we found it on the road at the end of school...)

That sounds like a really constructive and helpful meeting, Bink. It is wonderful that your DS has now got friends and it sounds like an extremely supportive environment.

Glad to hear that DT2 has got his stars and is getting on with his work, Maggie. I have this worry with DS2 now more than DS1; apparently he spends a lot of time with his head on his arms on the desk.

DT2 came out of school today with a prize for getting 13 stars. Am sure all get one at some point but am pleased anyway. he also said he got all his spellings and sentances done on time. First time he said that, he always says he didnt get finished. Unfortunately (or fortunately maybe) DT2 doesnt come home with his spellings test on Friday unlike Dt1 .(nobody does in Dt2's class for some reason) so i dont know if they were right or not but at least he seems to be working a bit quicker.

Just in from school run and had to check this out first! It all sounds very positive and it must be a great relief to have people at the school that understands and agrees with you about your DS.Hopefully you can relax a bot now and enjoy your weekend

Sounds like it was a good meeting - I am pleased (and relieved) for you.

Hi Bink! Haven't 'bumped into you' online lately, but that may be partially because I'm not here much, and even then, tend to appear at unsocial time zone mandated hours.

I'm so glad the meeting went well. It must be a huge relief to be in a place where ds gets the support he needs to thrive - sort of as if you've finally found the oasis in the desert instead of being seduced/let down by mirages?

Take care, and hope to 'see' you again soon.

Oh Bink. That sounds really constructive. I'm so glad you've found this school. I hope the meeting with the psychiatrist goes well. I am of the view that another point of view (preferably an informed one) is always useful.

Wow Bink. That sound like a very constructive meeting - the school are working with you - hurrah! They actually want to do their best for your ds, rather than tolerating (or not) his idiosyncrasies...
I get what you mean about diagnosis being a wild goose chase. The idea of getting perhaps a bigger picture from an 'expert' does sound very interesting though.
Really pleased to hear it went so well, so nice to be treated as a rational adult!

Thanks too for your advice to me earlier in the week - will respond when I have more time...

Well thank you so much everyone - does anyone else feel (like me) that this thread is a real "home"?

So ... trigger for meeting was apparently ds having reached the school's ceiling of time-outs (their sanction system) - so effectively just a formal trigger - but then also a necessary chance to talk about how things are going just now.

Meeting was every bit as co-operative and cordial as they usually are (that is big credit to the school and I will claim a bit of credit too ) - and we got very quickly into what they think main current problem is - which is not the intractability thing, but ds's non-processing of being told off (hence all the time-outs). He'll say sorry, fairly convincingly, but whatever he then goes on to do next shows that it's just lip-service & he hasn't any interest in doing anything to show he's sorry. So we talked lots about how to foster that & it was all very practical & constructive & optimistic.

And I got to say my piece about how ds's biggest fundamental problem at his last school (social alienation & his starting to make deliberate choices to alienate himself) has been so turned around by this school - and that some of the difficulties they're coping with stem (paradoxically) from having solved that problem - ie, because he now has so many friends, he's engaging with them instead of the teachers. (This all sounds self-evident doesn't it? - but that's the proof of a good meeting - that between you, you make sense of the whole situation.)

As to diagnosis, we did talk about pursuing that - turns out school still thinks (as do I) that ds has so many bits and pieces of different issues, without having an overall shape that says one thing or another, that pushing for something as specific as a diagnosis is going to be a wild goose chase. Instead, we've been given details of a consultant psychiatrist whose practice is especially with "limbo" children like this, & I think we will take ds to see him - not for a diagnosis, but for a bigger picture. And possibly a bit of help with the crystal ball of prognosis ...

Also I just think ds and children like him (in which I include all our dreamers) are so fascinating that I'd really love to see how an academic specialist looks at it all.

So there you are. I like his school.

Thinking of you Bink

Good luck Bink though I hope you're not up late enough to see this - don't know why I am really!

Hope everything goes well tomorrow, Bink. Your DS sounds as if he coped brilliantly with the school journey!

All the best for tomorrow, Bink.

Good luck tomorrow Bink. hopefully its not all doom and gloom.Let us know how it goes

Hey! Well done BinkBoy! That's great. Actually, since dd1 started Junior School I've been letting her walk home 'on her own' on a Friday (which is the only I pick the girls up rather than them going to the cm). It's really not as big a deal as it sounds as we live within sight of the school gate and I tend to pick up dd2 from the infants and then sort of lurk in our drive waiting for dd1 to emerge (last, of course!) and then I watch her home. Nonetheless, I have noticed that she takes this responsibility very seriously, crosses the road with great care and is very proud of herself when she makes it 'all the way' home on her own.

Just realised that yesterday I wished you good luck for today rather than Friday. I was labouring under the illusion that yesterday was Thursday. Wishful thinking!

Just an update. Ds did a very good job of staying on the ball during our
Tube trip this morning, including leading me to the barriers and saying "Mummy, you go through there with your Oyster card and I'll see you on the other side" as he went round to be let through the gate by the guard. And stopping by the map to work out for himself exactly which direction (westbound, southbound, etc.) we needed.

We did not miss our stop.

Disciplined but only after years of pain!

LOL Bink. That's lovely.

My dd2 is so undreamy it's untrue. E.g. yesterday we had this conversation.

DD2: So X said to me 'Fancy a snog?' [she is 5 btw, as is X] and, well, I was speechless!
Me [laughing]: OMG. What did you say to him?
DD2 [confused]: I didn't say anything. I was speechless.

Dreamy dd1 wouldn't dream of saying things and meaning them in such a literal way.

Your nanny sounds a good 'un, Bink. Sounds like she 'gets' your ds. Good luck for tomorrow.

You must be purposeful as well as dreamy, though, Eliza? - to be able to write your novels - that takes discipline. I'd be quite quite happy if my dreamer ended up that way.

Incidentally, because it is so lovely & not unrelated, I have to pass on what my daughter (not my dreamy son) told us on the way to school.

"I had a dream that two ducks
each as big as a person
came to my room and told me stories.
I told my friend, but she didn't believe me.
So I organised a playdate.
And then on the playdate, two pigeons
each as big as a person
came to my room and told us poems."

I was a terribly dreamy child. Really worried my parents and the schools, right up to the time I went to university and used to zone out in tutorials. I just liked my own little world.

I'm a novelist now. Still like to sit in my own little world, populating it with characters and settings. I had to work hard to get through school and university, and to hold down various jobs, but found, as I got older, that I could manage to control my imaginative lapses. Except for when I'm working on a book, when it's useful to be able to 'be' somewhere else.

Still get on wrong trains and miss my stop, though. Specially if I'm reading.

As a note of hope on the academic side for parents of dreamers, DS1 has now in Y5 just scraped into the 'top' maths group; he has always been in the second one. I assume he has scraped as all the other children in the group are the ackowledged 'good at maths' kids. I don't know if he'll stay there.

Katepol, both DS1 and DS2 are a bit like your DD with regard to maths - good conceptually, but not that great at basic number facts. Perhaps this is why DS1 seems 'better' in Y5 - he has had time to learn basic number facts and the conceptual stuff is starting to become important.

Bink, I think letting your DS take charge of the tube journey, and the consequences of zoning out, is a brilliant idea - if requiring a lot of calm breathing on your part. DS1 is allowed to go to the corner shop now, and so far has crossed roads safely and returned with the right order and the right change!

katepol, I was in a similar situation with DS3 in Year 1 - he was moved down a Maths group. I was not informed, but was able to work out the "code" because DS2 had been in the same class with the same teacher the previous year. I asked her straight out whether it was her intention just to let him bump down the Maths. groups, and what the school intended to do about it when he hit the bottom. After a face-saving (for the teacher) few weeks of "building up his confidence" in the lower group, he was moved back. I suspect that wouldn't have happened had I not been a pushy middle class parent, but I'm not going to feel guilty about it. I also gave DS3 some grief about exactly how he thought he was going to get through life without making any effort - it transpired he thought he could just live at home and not get a job. (Bloody social skills sessions really didn't help... seemed to be concentrating on making the pupils feel good about not doing very well, rather than building confidence in their own abilities, but that's another story.)

Don't worry Kate - I don't think my concerns take precedence over anybody's! (And I go up & down all the time in my feelings about ds, so the Gloom below was just a bit of a bad moment, oh and possibly a self-dramatising melodramatic one . School may not be planning to say anything Heavy at all.)

Now you. It sounds like you have two issues - how to wake your dd up a bit generally; and whether, if the standards she has to live up to (at school) are lowered, she'll do herself justice in the long run.

On the second issue, have you seen tortoiseshell's current thread about her ds? (OP is about coaching/doing extra work etc., but the gist is the same - how can you be sure a child is learning to its real potential.) As for tortoiseshell, I'd think your first port of call is dd's teacher? - find out exactly why she's been moved?

On the first issue, a long long time ago there was a thread (started by me, I admit) which asked those of us who were dreamy at school how & when we got out of that. The universal, fascinating, message was - we grew out of it: usually around adolescence. That may not be very helpful to you now, but it might give you strength for the future.

Also on that first issue, and depending on how old your daughter is, something that I have found wakes ds up is real responsibility, where he can't passively rely on somebody else compensating while he zones out. So - for instance - he's wonderful if I send him on an errand to the corner shop.

And another example: this morning he & I agreed he was going to be in charge of getting to school (we go on the Tube). We got to our stop - but he gazed out of the window - I bit my tongue - the doors shut and on we went. We had to go on to the next stop, change trains at complicated station (all done by him) & scramble back to be at school by skin of teeth.

I am quite looking forward to tomorrow's trip to school as, now he's had to live through the frantic consequences of zoning out, I do NOT think that will happen again.

Winge coming up - and sorry Bink, this doesn't compare to your concerns at the mo, but I need to vent.

DD is a COMPLETE space cadet at the moment. It is just like speaking to a brick wall. She is just lost to us for huges swathes of time, and when you do get her attention, it is short lived.

We have just established that she has been moved out of the top groups at school, and she hs said she is pleased, because she doesn't have to do such hard work now. Problem is, unless she is pushed, she never will do any good work. She just doesn't feel the need to bother, and is happy when doing shared work for the other person to do it all. It worries me that she will actually go backwards at this rate, as I don't think the teacher has seen what she is capable of, as her dreaminess has been so overwhelming since the start of term.

I am her parent, and I have to admit she comes across as quite slow for about the first 5 minutes of doing anything. Once she is interested though, she is very smart, but you really don't realise that unless you probe. It is like with maths - ask her a simple question (say 12+7) and she will umm and ahh and then get it wrong. Persevere, and she reveals an instinctive grasp of numbers and is quite able to do more complex sums instantly. However, I do not blame anyone for giving up before that point!

It is hard though, how can we explain this without coming across as pushy parents? I am worried that school will lower their expectations of her and that will be that.

More significantly, how can we get her out of her own thoughts all the time??? She is slightly under the weather, she is tired because she can't get to sleep easily, but we have tried and failed to change this....

Argh! (and sorry to go on...)

Good luck wishes for Friday from me too Bink. Must be very frustrating not knowing what they are gearing up for.
The new school sounds like it has been great for your ds, I really really hope they are thinking in terms of what more they can do. What do you think thye might be thinking in terms of a 'diagnosis'?

IMHO - hello, I am a newbie here too. I liked your comment to Bink about how to approach Friday's meeting. Plus being orbited by your lo. DD doesn't orbit as such, but trails around my legs often causing us both to fall over...

Issy - your description of 'big meetings' - spot on, unfortunately. Amazing how you can feel exhausted after 'just' sitting in a a meeting for an hour...

Sorry to hear about the meeting, Bink - and I know it's horrid being left to stew for several days. Would it be worth asking your DS whether he's been in any kind of trouble, or if anything exciting or funny has happened, or do you not want to worry him? (One of my really big frustrations with school is that the teachers call me in instead of talking to the children; DS3 is considerably more capable of responding to constructive feedback than they give him credit for - aargh!) All the best for Friday +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
(positive vibes - or you can sharpen the ends if it gets bloody).

Issy, your post on Big Meetings really rang a bell with me - I've got numerous rants among my computer files that were written as Big Meeting preparation. I generally console myself with the thought that the "other side" has to be professional and I only have to avoid abusive language (so have kept off the painkillers this far).

Welcome to the thread, IMHO and josiecat.

ds's best interests Issy ... such a big part of "children like him" is that no-one can quite tell what their best interests really are. As prognosis is so very uncertain. So it's all very individual and temporal, and I wouldn't blame the school (and/or any school) if they didn't quite know where to go with him.

I have some ideas (though they might not all be right ... ) though. For instance, without a shadow of a doubt, one of his best interests (if not the single best) at the beginning of this year was to be able to make & have friends again - and really the school has (as I said below) got a gold star there. There are other putative best interests about academic stretching - but I'm not as convinced about those ones. I don't know really.

Anyway, I'll report back. In true Bink-minor contrary fashion he'll probably be exemplary b/w now and Friday.

Oh, I should say you all (and our nanny) have chased the gloom away. Thanks!

Waves of support Bink ~~~~~~~~~~ (well it sort of looks like a wave).

I'm sitting here thinking about that sense I get, before any 'Big Meeting', of anxious energy as I assemble all my emotional and intellectual forces to analyse, persuade, cajole and prevail. It's exhausting beforehand and, whatever the outcome, absolutely flattening afterwards. I particularly hate that ghastly Big Meeting feeling where everyone, including me, is so damned measured and articulate, disguising a massive undercurrent of swirly emotion. Whatever the outcome, can I advise coming home after the meeting, taking a large prophylactic pain-killer (Imigran is particularly addictive) and lying down in a darkened room?

How confident are you that the school will equal or even exceed your understanding of DS's best interests and act in accordance with them?

We've simply not had to do this with the DDs ... yet. I nearly fell apart persuading the headmistress to allow DD2, who has less stamina than the average 4yo, to take one afternoon off a week in her first term. So, as Tony Blair would say, 'respect'.

Would a hug be just too naff? }} where "[ ]" means tentative!

Oh and Humble - destroying in an attempt to disassemble - oh yes indeed. Ds and I have had many a conversation about the traditional boy taking apart of toasters & non-putting back together (sigh).

We bought him an old portable typewriter (eBay, £3) and it has done several years of investigation (and still seems to work OK). Highly recommend.

Thank you lovely dream-weavers!

I've just had a long chat about this with our nanny and she says it's important I say at this meeting how much ds is "a different child" (nanny's words) socially than he was at the previous school - he has friends, he feels part of a group, he belongs - and the current difficulties come (ironically) partly from how happy he is - his self-control can't quite deal with this joy. So that even if the school is continuing to find him puzzling and difficult, we need to let them know that they have done this one really hugely important (the most important, I think) thing for him.

Hope it goes well on Friday, Bink, though I know there's quite a long time to wait until then.

Welcome, IMHO. I liked the description of your DS 'orbiting you like a small moon'. DS is always twirling and whirling about.

Thinking of you Bink. I hope it's a constructive meeting on Friday.

Support waves coming from here Bink. Nothing worse than having to wait...

Hello IMHO - sorry but pmsl about the cat's whiskers! He sounds lovely - and you describe him really vividly. I can just picture him in my minds eye from your description.

Hello all, including Humble!

I think the school do understand ds, I say ruefully. My guess is that they are going to suggest it really is diagnosis time - there is at the moment a very pervading (and, ha ha, intractable) issue of intractability (ie, what I was referring to below about dreaminess being superseded by own-agenda-following).

Being a specialist school I suspect they will have tried every strategy they can to motivate him to co-operate ... but if he simply won't, and won't see that the obstinacy is causing problems, then what?

Anyway, that's my guess as to what the problem is. School's been sort of unkeen on the phone to do more than arrange the meeting, which is also why I think we're being placed for a Big Serious Message.

Sorry for the ommission

Hello IMHO.

Bink - I am sending waves of support.

Do you know what the behaviour "problem" is ?

Is Friday the earliest a meeting is possible ?

Last March you were very positive that the school was going to understand your son. Do you think they do ?

Hello IMHO.

Bink... no advice, just lots of moral support for Friday. I guess, as IMHO said, the thing to do is to go in there as positively as possible and to use it as a way of looking for solutions. Have they said exactly what the problem is (apart from, I presume, dreaminess)?

Bink.

If I were you, I would go in with an air of "Well, what's the problem, and how can I support you while you address it?"

Don't llet them heap the guilt on - and don't do that to yourself.

Hi all, I have scanned this thread with my chin hanging, thinking "But ds1 does that!" every 3 posts ...

So, here he is.

He is 4.6, in Reception. He has a fascination with the way things work, but will destroy something in an attempt to disassemble it.
His concentration is poor for his age .. his eyes dance over things, rather than settle, especially if you are telling him something he doesn't want to listen to.
He never ever ever stands still ... he jumps up and down, or 'orbits' me like a small moon.
He has a speech delay, and often uses sound effects and hand gestures instead of words.
He is UberBoy - like a boy, but more so. More noise, more moving, more fiddling, jumping, shouting... He has huge strong hands, the size of a nine year old's, but very little physical grace.

He is Master Of All Things Jolly, he loves fart jokes, and people falling over. When he grows up, he wants to be a daddy. His teacher says he is lovely.

His speech therapist says his speech is 'moderately delayed' but he is catching up. The Ed Psych who assessed him (for I don't know what) said he was Borderline. (Borderline? LOL)

He once cut the cat's whiskers off, to make them all the same length, and cut the washing line down, to tie it all back up 'better'.

Gloom.
I have had a call from school asking for a meeting - urgently - to discuss ds's behaviour. It will be on Friday morning so I will be stewing till then. Can I have some kind thoughts?

I LOVE that

roisin, that is a brilliant story

I remember a dreamer friend of mine having a very confused moment at the petrol station after a dreamy day.

The car needed filling up with fuel, but it was such a nice day he decided to walk
He didn't realise until he got there

Bink - my dh's dad is just such a professor ( strictly speaking just a doctor rather than a prof - but university don none the less), so I do know where you are coming from. Interestingly, this is not me, I work best under pressure and time contraints. But, the other serious dreamer in the family is another grandchild of said FIL

There is definitely genetics in our case, but sporadic. Me, and my mother's father (the kind of child found having a bath but without having remembered to get undressed) (he ended up as a prep school headmaster, and was the loveliest, most child-wavelengthed person I have ever known), and dh's dad, who is quite the archetypical professor - but most of the rest of the family are all rather down to earth and efficient. I've had to generate my coping ideas myself, and did it late - I remember a (Supremely Efficient) friend at college saying "But you have no sense of urgency!"

Sorry - ds can't fit into a pattern WRT food intolerences, antibiotics nor difficult birth. Genetics (or a disposition that way) are another matter.

Could I have a PMM (Proud Mummy moment) please. Ds has had 2 (I didn't know about the first) "badges" for achievement already this term. It is hoped that each child will get 1 such "badge" in any given year, so to have two in the first month is a bit of a coo. The second was for his reading - on standing up in assembly for his award, he had his finger up his nose then and corrected the head... - I still have no idea what the first was for as he can't remember. ( could we have a shaking head in bewilderment smiley - I would use a lot of those)

The food intolerance is definitely an issue with DS1. Sometimes when he's eaten stuff he shouldn't, his eyes go quite glazed and 'drugged'.

But there is also a strong genetic component, I think. DS2 and I are both of the daydreaming but quite organised and diligent sort. DH and DS1 are both of the hapsy-flapsy, trust-with-your-life-but-not-with-your-toaster sort. My DB also reckons he would have been diagnosed ADHD today.

Hallgerda - I guess we all have different ideas about what causes our children's dreaminess. I agree that it can be inherited but I also think that other factors such as a difficult birth, food intolerances and nutritional deficiencies could play a part. I guess it goes back to whole nature/nurture debate.

You got me thinking about how far back it went in my own family, and I realised that my mum is a complete and utter dreamer! She was 'a late developer' at school and struggled with reading, writing and spelling. She's realised since that she was probably dyslexic but dyslexia hadn't been invented then! But she really does live in her own little world, she doesn't know what day it is half the time. My sister gets very frustrated with her and complains that she doesn't even know what planet she's on!

So thank you for that - it explains a lot. Oh and my fairy cakes are of course made with wholemeal flour, fructose, organic butter and free range eggs!!

Thanks for messages of support. Chocolateteapot, my dd's speech therapist has noticed lack of tongue movement and we have exercises to do. Is this another common link? We are lucky. Dd's delayed development was picked up early and she has some TA support already. She is loving reception and came home holding a little nursery childs hand(a real one not imaginary!) 1st parents evening next week but I'm feeling positive so far. School seem very encouraging and positive about her imagination.

Sorry Josiecat - just realised I called you Josiegirl a few posts ago!

Just sticking my head round the corner and read Josiecat's post. I know a big part of this is to accept each child for what they are, but just wanted to say Josiecat, I could have written your post a few years ago. Your DD sounds identical to mine.

My DD's speech difficulties were partly due to not being able to move her tongue very much. The physio asked her to move it up and down and side to side, I was shocked when it hardly moved. She's also had OT & Physio and a fair bit of help at school. Thought you might like to hear that she has made huge progress over the time she has been to school. There are still issues, but they are much less. Went to look at Middle School today. A year ago I would have been hyperventilating. Came out really positive about the whole thing, which was lovely. Just to say I know how it feels when this first comes up and things do improve.

Great news!

After my whinging post of 20/9, DS1 erupts out of school at the end of the day to announce that he's been made a 'badger warder' and has to wear a gold star which he can keep until Christmas. It wasn't until I'd questioned him for a few minutes on how he came to be learning about the care of badgers that the penny dropped.

He's been given a Badge Award .

Blueblob, don't worry, you don't sound like an OCD case. If I were you I'd encourage your son to take responsibility for his own spelling book - good experience for him and it'll go missing less often if there's only one person to lose it iyswim .

maggiems, I'm both and that you can leave £5 notes on your front step - I wish I lived somewhere like that!

Bink, it wasn't perceptive genius - I was describing my parents . The dreaminess goes back at least one further generation in my family. I should add, given the amount of doom, gloom and despondency one might find on the web, that the dreamers in my family have had interesting and fulfilling lives, and (to my knowledge) no drug addiction. Going back a generation or two, dreamers met with the full force of the school discipline system (or the even worse rigours of working life) and worked out some self-management strategies.

ChiefFairyCakeMaker, while I'm sceptical over the diet hypothesis (believing as I do that dreaminess is largely inherited, I'm not beating myself up over that dose of antibiotics while still breastfeeding either), I'm always interested in hearing other people's ideas and experiences (and recipes), so please don't feel you shouldn't be talking about diet on an education thread. Do allow me a minor <snurk> over the fact you haven't called yourself ChiefFlaxSeedandBananaSmoothieMaker though... (sorry, couldn't resist). If you want to talk to a wider range of people about food intolerances, perhaps starting a separate thread under Health would be a good idea.

I'm a list writing ex-dreamer. Infact I ended up studying information management, I nearly became a dyslexic librarian .

A childhood of loving to read factual books combined with the short term memory of a goldfish, resulted in an appreciation of the use of databases and information management systems. Knowing how to find things, then knowing how to store them so you can find them again is deliciously useful for somebody like me.

I also spent my childhood not remembering or listening to what I was meant to be doing and where I was meant to be going. As an adult I discovered the use of have databases, lists. My house is orgnanized with a place for everything.

It works most of the time for me now and what I've typed above probably makes me sound like an OCD case. However I still manage to fall into a disorganized heap reguarly. My systems work fine, long as nobody interferes or tells me things and I can't get to write them down.

Other mothers at school laugh at me (in an affectionate way) because I'm always getting something wrong. Turning up for parents evening on the wrong day, that sort of thing. Can any of you tell me where my sons spelling book is?? It was on the dining room table yesterday.

I had a better parents evening the other day She's only had them a few weeks so can't expect her to really know any of the children yet.

It's always a bit disconcerting when you can hear her saying nice things to parents before you. We get there and again it's all about the listening and day dreaming. But on the whole she wasn't so down on him as old teacher and said he was around average in the class. I'm pleased with that, average is fine for a day dreaming July born boy

His reception year teacher got him, it'd be nice if this one by the end of the year could have something positive things to say about him. Not for my childs sake but for me as a parent , I want to hear something nice. More seriously this teacher does seem quite sensible.

I'm not sure what sort of dreamer I am. In some ways I am disorganised in the sense that I stuff things in drawers and pockets and dh frequently finds £5 notes on the door step However in other ways I am highly organised to the point that I am a bt OCd ish. I just reread that and it doesnt look good!

Lovely lovely post Ellbell, I can feel your joy, it gives me hope.
Welcome Josiecat, hope to hear lots more about your Dd.

Welcome Josiegirl! Your DD sounds as if she'll fit right in here. It's great that we're getting more girls now - I find that reassuring, for some reason...

Hey,I'm the second type of ex-dreamer too. And DS1 loves lists - as long as someone else writes them

I'm glad you've got such lovely feedback about your DD, Ellbell.

DH is Hallgerda's first type of ex-dreamer - charmingly disorganised. Well, lots of people find it charming, but having lived through many years of lost passports, missed flights and mislaid keys, I don't find it quite so appealing any more.....

Hello. Only found this thread last night. Had a late one as had to keep reading!
My lovely dd is 4.7, has just started reception.
Her difficulties:
v dreamy,
easily distracted from tasks,
unclear speeech,
makes out of blue remarks unrelated to anything around her,
poor gross and fine motor skills(weak muscles)
limited social skills(cannot remember anyones names, seems on a different wavelength to other children,keen to make friends but often ignored esp by other girls)
asthma, eczema, recently has bad allergic reaction to dogs.
Her talents:
v imaginative(makes up stories,has imaginary friends, also tells me about things she's done at school which she hasn't,
good memory,
good vocabulary but hard to understand,
happy, loving, placid.
Can we join you?

Hello everyone - Ellbell that is glorious!! Well done to everyone concerned.

Hallgerda, I am exactly your second category of ex-dreamer (that was a stroke of perceptive genius). I want ds to be somewhere in the middle of course - not neurotically agenda'd like me, & able to see wood for trees - which is what I am so bad at.

As to dreamers getting more focussed as they get older - yes, we are seeing that with ds (who's nearly 8 and a half) but it seems to go with being less passive - so his focus is (increasingly insistently) on his own agenda. Which creates issues of its own - as always, at school, but not at home.

Hallgerda - I know what you mean but there were plenty of physical (as well as emotional) improvements when I sorted out my food intolerances.

Katepol - glue ear has been linked to food intolerance, namely dairy and secondly wheat/gluten intolerance.

Sorry to keep going on about nutritional therapy / homeopathy on an education thread, it's just that I know how helpful it can be. Perhaps I need to find/start an 'alternative therapy' thread...

Ellbell - I'm really pleased DD1's teachers are so in tune with her, that must be such a relief after last year.

Oh, just fire and brimstone

Seriously, we have parents' evening in a couple of weeks, so I'll find out more then.

Ellbell - that sounds great for your dd1, and a huge relief for you. I know what you mean about teachers making all the difference.
DD1's reception teacher 'got' her and dd1 was very happy and felt appreciated. Her Year 1 teacher just ignored her pretty much, and she has lost some confidence through this. I have had no contact with her Year 2 teacher so far. Reputation is good, but as you say, it is whether they understand or not that makes the difference.
Must be lovely for your dd1's talents to be recognised, rather than any diffoculties she presents being complained about.

Hallgerda - I suspect my dd1 is going to fall into the charmingly disorganised group (what a lovely expression) - I just cannot see her with a list and not losing it lol!

Sphil - do you any plan of action in case this years teacher doesn't get your DS1??

Ellbell - what a lovely post . The right teacher makes such a difference. DS1's teacher last year was like that - the jury's out so far on this year's....

Ellbell, that's lovely . Do let us know how the drama goes - I'd considered it for DS3 (and even started a thread on here about it) but it's not proved possible to timetable after school (must clone myself sometime ) and at school it's generally The Usual Suspects who get parts.

On the food point, I am fairly sure it's not an issue in DS3's case. His only exposure to antibiotics would have been via breast milk at around 8 months when I had bronchitis. ChiefFairyCakeMaker, do you think it is possible that the fact you were taking control and responsibility might have been the key, rather than the diet changes themselves?

katepol, I suspect ex-dreamers of a certain age divide into the charmingly disorganized and the exceptionally together, never late, write everything on long lists types.

sphil and singersgirl... interesting about the chewing. I'm sure dd1 doesn't realise she is doing it either.

Thinking about the antibiotics thing. Did anyone else have steroids before their baby was born to mature their lungs. I had dexamethasone (sp?) weekly for 8 weeks. (I know not the same as antibiotics, but just another drug factor...)

Hello all, and welcome katepol.

I just had to come and share with you ladies how happy I am tonight. We had dd1's first parents' evening at her new school (year 3) tonight and it was amazing. I am so chuffed with her teachers (she has two working together in what seems to be a huge class...). They just seem to 'get' her in a way that her year 2 teacher patently didn't. They said that she is obviously very bright, especially in literacy. They described her writing as 'wonderful' and they said that she was a 'deep thinker'. When I said (anxiously) 'But what about her fidgeting/dreaming/failure to engage?', they just said that they didn't see it as a huge problem. Yes, she sometimes switches off, but mostly she is capable of fidgeting and listening at the same time, and as long as she wasn't disturbing those around her they just let her get on with it. (Her favourite fidget in class is apparently to take all the pencils out of the pencil jar and put them back in again... repeatedly!) They said that they thought she'd enjoy drama and that they'd try to find her a good part in the Christmas play. (Compare and contrast with last year, when she was a 'musician' and had to sit to one side and occasionally bang a tambourine.) I came out of there walking on air. Yes, she's still a fidget and a dreamer and she needs to learn to control that. But she doesn't have a huge problem, and they like her kookiness and her 'different-ness' and her unusual way of looking at the world. They understand that she is my wonderful and frustrating and unique and sparky dd1 and not a weirdy freak. Hooray

Sorry... have read that back and I sound like a demented thing. But I have had a year of worry because of her negative Yr 2 teacher, and this was like a breath of fresh air.

DS1 is the quintessential fidgeter and chewer. He chews less than he did, and his chewing is definitely worse when he has eaten something that affects him. He is always falling off chairs and tripping over things.....

Oh yes, DS1 does the fidgeting thing too. He loses his balance easily (though is improving as he gets older) and I catch him chewing his clothes quite frequently, though again, not as much as he used to. The thing he does which drives me mad is to wipe his mouth on the shoulder of his shirt - he really doesn't realise he's doing it, but it looks awful.

Thank you for the lovely welcome ladies, and for your kind comments about my dd1. She is lovely, it is true. Just very frustrating lol!

As for the questions, there is no history of food intolerances. She did have glue ear for quite a while when a toddler, which I suspect propelled her on the route of tuning the world out, as she couldn't hear it very well .

In terms of her birth, it was completely fine, no intervention, and she was perfectly healthy, although quite small (5 1/2 lbs @ 40+9). She did have to have IV antibiotics when 6 months though (for pneumonia).

The school do not feel the need to do anything to try and engage her more, as she is achieving what she needs to. They do tend to conform to the stereotype of giving the most attention to those that shout the loudest, which dd patently does not!
It is very comforting to hear that those of you with slightly older dreamers are reporting more focus as they get older . Although I think inherently these kind of children will not change their spots, but maybe adapt to the world a bit more?

Lastly, one thing I forgot to mention is her inability to sit still. She regularly falls off chairs, trips over, walks into things and puts things in her mouth absentmindedly. It is as if her brain and her body lose contact somehow lol!
Enough from me. Thanks again .

Welcome to Katepol! DS1 (9 in August) has lots of similarities to your DD, though he's getting more able to focus on tasks not of his choosing.

He still starts stories in the middle often or, rather, fails to provide any context so I don't know if he's talking about a book, a DVD, a game or something someone said at lunchtime.

He still finds it very difficult to switch his brain off and go to sleep; in the past I've tried massage from me, relaxation tapes, story tapes and just going with the flow, which is kind of where I am now.

In Y2 his teacher said how amazing his work would be if he did what he was capable of. It is very difficult to persuade him to do something he doesn't want to. However, DS1 is now getting a bit more competitive, which actually I'm quite pleased about.

Welcome Katepol. Your DD sound's lovely! Without wanting to sound totally narcissistic she also sounds like me especially when I was young. I still have trouble getting to sleep, completely with your DD on not being able to switch brain off. Someone told me recently to play loud music to 'empty my brain' before bed. It does help when I remember to do it. I was also told to write thoughts down but haven't got round to that yet.

DS (my dreamer) shows all the signs of being the same but he's only 5 and I don't think he is up to realising/expressing it yet.

Glad things are going well Hallegarda. From posts about older dreamers, I wonder if things do start to fall into place around the 7/8/9 mark?

Hi Katepol. Your DD1 reminds me of how I was at school - a complete daydreamer, but bright and unstretched and SO BORED! I also had real trouble getting to sleep as my brain wouldn't stop thinking. My parents were both primary teachers so they did things like giving me simple French books to teach myself French, and taught me to play chess - things to stretch me which helped. I suffered from insomnia for years though until I saw a homeopathic doctor when I was about 13. I think my diet affected my lack of focus/concentration/motivation though as I've mentioned before. Has she got any food intolerances that you know of?

Good to see you here, katepol - welcome!

Things seem to be looking up for DS3 at the moment - I've been letting him make his own way to school and back and take responsibility for his own things, and it's going very well and motivating him. I've only once had to send him back to school for a PE kit at the end of the day (He's 8, in Year 4 and we live 5 minutes away from the school).

He's just started learning the piano, and that seems to be going well . Swimming lessons have had to stop for a while because the pool's closed, but when I took the family for a swim at the weekend I found DS3 could swim rather better than I thought - he has rather tended to mess around in the lessons.

katepol, is your daughter's school actually trying to do anything to motivate her or giving her any direct feedback, or are they just telling you she's not fulfilling her potential? (The latter attitude, sadly, seems to be par for the course these days. I keep meaning to get out DS1's old badge kit and make one for parents' night that says "Have you t