have been given the total heebiejeebies by a friend....can you all calm me down please

[Heathcliffscathy]

so, as bleeding heart liberals that we are, dh and i, having both been public school educated decided long ago that that wasn't what we wanted for any sprogs we had....we wanted them to be happy as opposed to successful whatever those terms mean, wanted a nurturing environment rather than an academic hothouse and wanted a broad social mix of potential friends rather than for them to be surrounded by the overpriviledged. now that we have a ds (2yrs) we still feel the same...sort of, but increasingly uneasy about it all...

basically, we've got the choice of a pretty crappy local state primary that is huge, or a v v good key stage results c of e school that we have to go to church to get him into (dh is c of e lapsed and i am catholic, lapsed but v spiritual and want to give my son the benefit as i see it of being brought up in a religion that he can later choose to reject iyswim).

we always thought there was no way we would even consider paying for his education until secondary and even then really look at the options before going down this route.

i had a conversation with a friend last night and she thinks we're mad. she said that if we had any doubt about the local state schools we should get him down for the private primarys in the area (there are numerous options) and that this was the way round to do it as then he had a chance of getting into a good grammar for secondary rather than playing catch up massively by being crammed for a couple of years before common entrance at home.

argh. the other thing i'm mega worried about is that i didn't fit in, either at the state primary i went to (was 'too posh') nor at the v good girls public school i went to for secondary (deffo not rich enough for there).

i want ds to fit in. i want his abilities or lack of to be maximised or compensated for. i want him to be safe and happy. i'm starting to worry that the only way to ensure this in london is to send him to a paying school.

i know i'll get totally slated for this. i'm slating myself in a way. but tbh, i'm in a flap and need talking down i think....

anyone?

[StarofBethleCam]

I can't calm you down because I agree with your friend

Sorry Sophable

[Heathcliffscathy]

you konw that emoticon on msn with the face with the sort of lopsided line for a mouth. that's what i need right now cam!

[LadySherlockofLGJ]

So do I, sorry.

DS(4) is in one of the top state aided schools in the diocesce, ( I am religious).

If the schools around here were not up to scratch, we would have gone private.

[Heathcliffscathy]

gulp

[tallulah]

I agree with your friend as well. Private schools differ as much as any other school and it must be possible to find one that isn't too "posh" if that's what you are concerned about. I can't understand why you feel your child could only be "happy" in a state school?

Two of mine were fortunate enough to get Assisted Places to a private school. I'd have given my right arm to have been able to send the other two as well, so I find all this wittering about principles very odd- it's a luxury that most people don't have.

It also IMHO doesn't seem fair that you are considering going to church just to get him a place at a c of e school & thereby denying that place to some other child whose parents don't have another option.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but you wanted opinions, and that's mine.

[mazzystar]

how do you know the school is crappy? what criteria are you using to judge it?

you could always get on the board of governors and help it to improve (i know i will get a slating for being naive for that one)

i wouldn't personally even contemplate private education - "a star shines anywhere"

[Heathcliffscathy]

errr. i go to that church as it's the nearest and as i explained i want ds to go to church with us. i object strongly to the fact that my spiritual life and my sons education are linked, in fact i find it the antithesis of what church is meant to be.

[Heathcliffscathy]

mazzy...thanks....it's a huge old victorian pile of the building and is a v big school with big class sizes. but you're right, i need to investigate a lot further.

i guess the problem is that if i sent ds there he'd have to either go through what i went through i.e. extra work every night to prepare for common entrance or alternatively he'd have to go to the local secondary school which is awful and there is no way i'd send him there tbh.

[mrspink27]

we have almost an identical dilemma, although not in london, our catchment primary is DIRE and the others are either huge, or more dire. at the moment dd1 is at a montessori nursery with the option to stay till she is 12, however it is very small and a bit of a tree hugging, kaftan wearing establishment and the grandparents have reservations about it much past 7. we have her name down for a very good local public school for september, but i am still not sure that this is the right thing either... i also never fitted in at secondary school, a combination of reasons; the location of my house, my fathers illness etc etc... and i want my dds to fit in and be successful... add to all that, that dd1 is incredibly able and you get a picture of the knots dh and i are getting ourselves in. we are still very unsure of what to do.... oh and just to be really hypocritical.... before i had the dds i was teaching in the state primary sector and strongly believe in state education! I'll be watching this thread with interest!

[foxinsocks]

both my kids are at a huge state school (90 in each year). It is a very good school in terms of SATS (has just shot up the league tables) but when we joined it was above average but nowhere near the church schools at the top (now it is the top school around here).

Don't let big put you off - I hear a lot of people spouting off on here about how they don't want big schools for their kids (and I don't mean you!). Some big schools work really well - the head at our school makes it very widely known that he wants every child in his school to be treated as an individual and I certainly think they do this.

The main benefit to private schools (to me) is the class size. I think if you ever ask to go into a state school, even one that is top in the league in your area, you will be surprised at how hard it is to pitch a lesson to 30 children and keep all their attention and get it right.

In your shoes I would go round your local school for yourself - meet the headteacher (to me, the most important person) and don't forget, schools can change a lot in a few years.

[foxinsocks]

oh and we are in London so it can work!

[Glitterygook]

FWIW, my response on your other thread:

Totally agree with peachyplumfairy - in your shoes I'd perhaps put his name down for private school anyway (no obligation but the option will be there if it comes to the crunch) and go and visit all the potential options armed with all the questions you can think of!

I totally understand the approach of putting a child in private primary as they have a better chance of getting into a good grammar in the first place, rather than state school at primary and paying at secondary but I've gone for the 2nd option because I'd rather avoid private education if at all possible (ds1 is only in reception atm but I'll pay at secondary if I feel I have to). However, the state primary he goes to is fantastic (in the recent league table it was 4th in the borough and the borough was 2nd in the country) so I didn't feel my gamble was that huge. I looked round the school and I had a good feel for it - ds1 is in his first term and he's very happy and flourishing.

Anyway, I ramble - that's what I would do in your circumstances - no harm in putting his name down for private now and then go round and research the realistic options thoroughly.

[PrincessPlumPuddingHead]

sophable, as you say your primary consideration is that you want him to be happy above all, then surely the school he will be happiest in will be the one which will suit him best. and you don't know what school that is now (because he is only 2), so by NOT putting him down for private primaries you are just limiting your choice. since you don't have any major ideological problem against private education it seems silly not to do that.

and I would have thought chances of your child being happy were much greater in a nice small private primary than a huge state primary with 32 in a class, if the c of e school doesn't work out.

sorry!

[Heathcliffscathy]

i'm hearing you foxin. i've actually tried to go down another primary a bit further but that we'd have a chance of getting into and they told me to bugger off until much closer to the time he goes there...

[Glitterygook]

Sophable - agree with foxinsocks re size - I've just told you how ds1's school did in the league tables and they have 70 in a year. A big school but it's fantastic and has been since I was at primary!

[Glitterygook]

Why necessarily happier in a small class than a large one?

Could find noone he connects with among the 12 or so he's with in a primary - much more likely to in a class of 30. Horses for courses and all that but ds1 thrives on the hustle and bustle of a big school because he's very outgoing and extrovert.

[Glitterygook]

'in a private' even.

[Blondeinlondon]

Go look at all the schools. Check out the good schools guide book
Not all fee-paying schools are academic hothouses

I would rather not pay for private education but where I live in London I consider it will be worthwhile expense to maximise my child's potential.

[Heathcliffscathy]

ok. so get his name down for all of them (that costs money!) and stop fretting for now? and go see the big primary. and stop being such a classic neurotic middle class tw*t!!!

[TheFish]

london eh?

[thecattleareALOHing]

You have to visit the school before panicking. I know lovely, bright happy kids who go to the enormous victorian schools around me and ds will start at the pre-school of the most local in Jan.
I do understand how you feel - it seems such a HUGE decision to take on behalf of someone else, doesn't it? And I also feel sick at the though of screwing up.
As for 'taking the place of someone else who doesn't have another option' - eh? Surely all children have the same rights to a decent education in a safe environment? And of course they have other options!

[Enideepmidwinter]

small is a pita sometimes sophable - there are 16 in dd1s class and that is half of year 1 AND reception mixed- makes it very intense sometimes

[Enideepmidwinter]

you could always send him to the big primary for a year or so and then take him out and go private at 7

[PrincessPlumPuddingHead]

my dd's reception class was 12, and my ds is in a reception class of 7, each with a teacher and an assistant. nobody can convince me that a class of 30 plus is going to provide them with similar levels of 1-1 care and be anything other than much more intimidating to the child. Difficult enough to deal with the social aspects of a class of 30 when you are 9 let alone when you are 4 rising 5.

[Anchovy]

Sophable - I think I live in the same area as you and have been through the same dilemna. Happy to have a chat about this off-line - I probably have some experience of some of the schools in the area as well, including the one you are talking of. We were in the position of our nearest state school being really pretty crap and other is the well-known, very good and hideously over-subscribed Catholic state primary (I am a "resting" Catholic!) We chose the private option and have been very pleased with our choice: the good thing about the area is that there are a lot of private schools to choose from and the one DS is now at is pretty low key.

Other thing you need to know about private schools if you are even thinking of it is the waiting lists, although I have a strong feling they have all got the same people on them and the situation isn't as dire as the schools like to present.