The awful incident in Cavan

(179 Posts)
hollyisalovelyname Tue 30-Aug-16 18:20:20

My thoughts are with the relatives and friends of those who died.
Just awful.
May they find some consolation somewhere.

TKRedLemonade Tue 30-Aug-16 21:04:11

It's dreadful and the note on the back door must have terrified the poor person who went there. God help the guards who had to go in too

LokisUnderpants Tue 30-Aug-16 21:05:34

It's heartbreaking. The poor little mites, he was supposed to protect them sad

quicklydecides Tue 30-Aug-16 21:06:14

What was the note?

TKRedLemonade Tue 30-Aug-16 21:07:48

Just warning whoever called not to go inside and to call the guards instead so you would know something awful had Happened and it was apparently a relative sad

quicklydecides Tue 30-Aug-16 21:19:11

That poor woman, and those poor boys may they rest in peace.

EsmeCordelia Tue 30-Aug-16 21:29:17

Poor all of them. I cannot imagine how awful his world was that he (assuming it was the father) thought his babies were better off out of it.

Amber76 Tue 30-Aug-16 23:58:41

Is it known if he had a history of depression or anything? Its frightening to think this would just happen out of the blue.
RIP to the family. I feel awful for the extended family - how would you get your head around it?

squoosh Wed 31-Aug-16 10:54:24

I find it hard to have any sympathy for him to be honest. If you genuinely think your wife and children are better off dead at least kill them in the most painless way possible. Do not stab them. How terrified they must have been. How agonising their deaths must have been.

If you think you're better of dead, kill yourself. Leave your family alone.

These kinds of incidents are becoming all too common. And 9 times out of 10 it's the man of the family who decides everyone needs to die.

That poor woman. Those poor boys.

What squoosh said.

I would wager this was yet another inadequate and controlling prick who wanted to hurt his wife in the worst way possible, by taking her boys.

Depressingly familiar.

MaudGonneMad Wed 31-Aug-16 10:57:25

I agree with squoosh. No sympathy for a man who murders his entire family, and I find much of the coverage really distasteful.

I saw a tweet which summed up the hypocrisy:

'Woman has an abortion - 'how could you murder your own baby you're evil
Man murders family - 'this poor man what could we have done to help'

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Wed 31-Aug-16 11:59:11

It's very true that we are crap with regards to mental health.

But we are also crap with regards to domestic violence, and the eagerness people (especially the media, every article, from the IT to the tabloids, are hagiographies of this guy) have to hand-wave this away is awful. "Oh, talk about your problems! Here's the phone line to the Samaritans! More money for mental health!"

Yeah, the Samaritans are great. More money for mental health is needed, absolutely.

But most family annihilators are also motivated by the sense they own their wives and children. Where are the links to Women's Aid alongside the Samaritans? Why are we so afraid to examine why men do this to their families?

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Wed 31-Aug-16 12:03:25

www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/words-ultimately-futile-as-ballyjamesduff-deals-with-tragedy-1.2773595

Rosita Boland is generally a good journalist.

But wtf is this bullshit at the end:

The first thing you see when you go in the school door is a laminated notice, affixed to the wall beside a copy of the 1916 Proclamation. It is headed “Child Protection” and carries the name of the school’s two designated child protection liaison officers.

Clodagh Hawe would have passed this sign every time she came to work. She could never have imagined that one unimaginable day her own three children would be in need of protection in their own home.

That may be true. But we have no evidence that it is, and in fact, it's overwhelmingly likely that it's false.

The worst part of this coverage is that it cloaks itself in "sensitivity" to mental illness, but it is actually compounding the real problem. It's increasing the social acceptance of male violence. Women who are victims of domestic abuse go to enormous lengths to look normal to the outside world. This media coverage is condoning that. It's encouraging it.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Wed 31-Aug-16 12:06:36

This is just a small thing, but look at how the papers report on the poor woman who found the note pinned to the door.

She's Clodagh's mother. She's the grandmother of the three murdered children.

But every report calls her the "mother-in-law".

He is the star of the show. Everyone else in the family exists in his orbit. This framing is part of the problem. We need to stop condoning the point of view that women and children are possessions:
www.stpatricks.ie/articles/%E2%80%9Cprotecting-little-innocents%E2%80%9D-irish-examiner-18032013-analysis-paul-gilligan-ceo-st-patrick

squoosh Wed 31-Aug-16 12:10:13

The worst part of this coverage is that it cloaks itself in "sensitivity" to mental illness, but it is actually compounding the real problem. It's increasing the social acceptance of male violence

I agree absolutely with this. Women and children are the real victims in these scenarios. Not only is the idea of 'ahh, but he's a victim too' letting murderers off the hook it's also promoting the idea that people who are mentally ill are to be feared. When in reality most people with mental health problems are far more likely to harm themselves than anyone else.

squoosh Wed 31-Aug-16 12:12:19

'Woman has an abortion - 'how could you murder your own baby you're evil
Man murders family - 'this poor man what could we have done to help'

Oh Ireland. It's all about the men.......

squoosh Wed 31-Aug-16 12:15:11

yet another inadequate and controlling prick who wanted to hurt his wife in the worst way possible, by taking her boys.

Yep.

It seems to be a pretty common occurrence in the UK and Ireland these days. Men who think the family unit is their belonging to control and their's to end.

SleepDeprivedAndCranky Wed 31-Aug-16 12:15:47

Such a tragedy, it's becoming far too common lately sad

MaudGonneMad Wed 31-Aug-16 12:18:26

I read that article earlier HoldMecloser and thought the ending was really jarring as well. I also was hoping that Boland or Roisin Ingle or Kathy Sheridan would have the guts to name this male violence for what it is. Maybe one of them is writing a longer piece for the wkend.

TKRedLemonade Wed 31-Aug-16 13:18:37

I agree with what you are all saying and indeed in many cases it is true just domestic violence and I do lack sympathy for him. He could have killed himself and left them as many do.

However being a small country I can see on FB that her family are very upset at the coverage that suggested mental health had no part to play and are defending him. So there is the possibility that he did have mental health issues and in typical Irish male style refused to acknowledge or treat it.

Mycatsabastard Wed 31-Aug-16 13:24:52

Utterly heartbreaking.

My own dad killed my mum while me (aged 6) and my sister (aged 2) were in the house. He then went and took his own life somewhere else. I am forever grateful he spared us.

It doesn't stop the heart ache it caused our family though and the ongoing consequences of his action over 40 years later.

RIP to this lady and her children.

squoosh Wed 31-Aug-16 13:28:30

Oh my God Mycatsabastard I am so very sorry to hear that. Can't begin to imagine what that must have been like for you and your little sister. But I can well it imagine it reverberating through your family to the present day.

Just horrendous.

flowers

TKRedLemonade Wed 31-Aug-16 13:31:36

God how awful for you. Just horrendous. flowers

NerrSnerr Wed 31-Aug-16 13:42:45

This is just awful. How are people able to harm their children, especially in such a brutal manner. Utterly heartbreaking.

The tabloid reporting of this has been dreadful, reporting how great he was and barely mentioning Clodagh.

hollyisalovelyname Wed 31-Aug-16 17:04:35

What I love about Mumsnet is it gives you a different view- Súil Eile- perspective.
Squoosh - great post. I hadn't seen it like that.
For example:
Domestic violence didn't register with me at all. Despite the whole awful scenario being violence in a domestic setting.
I was just thinking the poor man lost it.
Am I thick???
Maud great post from you too.
MyCats how dreadful for you. I hope you had happiness subsequently in your life

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