lily, i would speak to a herbalist before taking it, it can be v powerful and annovulation is only one possible cause of infertility.

thank you all for your kind words. am really feeling no better. i always thought that when i'd had enough i would feel a kind of peace, and i dont. i feel bitter and unutterably sad for the family that we wanted. we have ds, which is more than we ever thought we would, but i feel that i have cheated him out of an experience that would have made him so happy. i feel unfulfilled, but, enough is enough.

i think i need to leave the ttc boards now. i am sad and (as i said) bitter because other people are getting pg. i know that them having babies doesn't stop me, and there aren't just so many potential children in the world, but i hate the person that ftc has made me. last round of clomid. last cycle ttc.

i hope to still see you all around and that you soon get the healthy happy pg's and babies that you deserve.
love you all and thank you for all your support over the last 3y xx

I think I got as far as buying a bottle, but then started on clomid, then switched to tamoxifen and my cycles suddenly became text book (ovuating on day 14 and everything!) so I never really took it.

I would say anything's worth a go though. I've decided to start having acupuncture again...

Thanks Heebee. Sorry to hear about your af.

I was wondering if anyone has tried using Agnus Castus (think I spelled it ok)? I never heard of it and a nurse was telling me about it recently as she had success using it. Anyone got any info?

xxx

Hi all

lily so sorry to hear about your nana - thinking of you..

lissie - thinking of you.. look after yourself, and hope you see you here very soon

Rainbow - hope you're ok

Duritz - hi and well done on staying strong...

Well the waiting list for the lap and dye means I will probably have to wait until Jan/mid-Feb. I tried to fluff it a bit using my private medical insurance and say it was for endometriosis. They correctly assumed that there would be fertility problems in there, but said they would do it if my consultant faxed them. My consultant said she would do this, but as they want a copy of my original referral letter, which would be for fertility issues, I'm not sure how creative she is prepared to be...

And, AF arrived today. Yee hah...

Hello all, sorry not to have checked in for a bit (my Nana just died )

Duritzfan well done for holding it together with your neighbour.

Polly Thanks

Heebee my sympathies about the appraisal, life does seem sort of on hold when you are ttc. You don't want to do this or that 'just in case'. Best wishes for all that you are about to do.

Lissie I don't know what to say, so sorry you are feeling this way.

As for me, I'm just passed mid-cycle but for obvious reasons have not done much of the necessary to conceive, so I guess I'll be back in a fortnight breaking my heart about my period arriving even though a BFP would be a bloody miracle!!!

Love to all.

Huge hugs Lissie .. I saw my neighbour at the weekend for the first time since I mc'd ..we were due at the same time .. she is really showing now and I got the urge to run away from her ...
Managed to stay and be nice though ...

Huge hugs to you all xxxxxxxxx

Lissie xx look after yourself.
Hi Rainbowdays hope your doing ok.

Lissie - you sound the lowest I have ever heard you, I wish there was something I could say to help, but even a virtual batch of alcohol and chocs are not going to help you right now. Take care of yourself, and perhaps in a few days you might feel like being here and re-decorating to suit your mood. I will be waiting for you.

I have officially had enough now. its been 4y since our first mc. period started yesterday and today i take the 1st tablet of my last round of clomid. think i am now too despondant and hopeless for even the hut. dh has his PJFT on thursday and joins RAF in jan. time to stop i think.

Well I'm still here ttc no 1 - my NHS consultant told me to stop the tamoxifen, but my private consultant has told me to carry on. I produced 3 eggs this month so am just driving myself insane on the 2WW. I am booked in for a lap and dye soon, and then we're on the waiting list for ivf...

I have my appraisal next week at work and am supposed to come up with 3 objectives. Not sure that (1) get pregnant (2) have baby and (3) leave is quite what they're looking for..

Lilybunny - Im so sorry - it makes it doubly hard doesnt it ? Of course you are pleased for them, but the question is WHY NOT ME ??

I kind of wish I had done something so that I would understand why I keep miscarrying .. I started trying for a baby when I was 21 - because I had endometriosis - I'm now 37 - thats sixteen years, eleven pregnancies and just two babies.. ( I dont mean "just" two babies - I know how lucky I am - but why cant I have three ? )

LOL.. Hang in there .. It HAS to be our turn soon ..xxxxxxxxxxx

Lily don't worry - let it all out! I felt the same when my sis announced her good news recently. Of course I was sooo excited for her but it just feel so unfair.

Sorry, maybe a touch too much profanity

Fuck, Fuck, Fucketty, FUCK! Sister has just announced conception of number 3 (a whoops) last one is only 10 months. I really am happy for her (even if she isn't particularly happy herself yet) but I'm just not happy for her right at this second. I mean, ffs!!!!!!

lol sorry, this thread is a bit odd. i tend to really use it when I am feeling particularly sorry for myself.

Lol Lilybunny ... no .. lets see if I kill it .....

Please don't say I've killed another thread!!!

All welcome to the off licence, how about we go via the pub?

Lilybunny .. can I join you in that trip to the off licence....?

Sorry AF arrived.. life is very sucky around these parts huh ?

Oh Duritzfan, how awful. It is so hard to get things back on track when relationships become awkward. I'm certain that things are unlikely to end up as strained with your neighbour as they are with your sil, she may even be very supportive. I do hope things look brighter soon.

Well, af got me today (as I expected). I got swine flu at the crucial time this month so I don't know why I'm disappointed - but I am. So, here we go again.

Saunters off in the direction of a slinky underwear shop off-licence.

thanks Lilybunny .. my sil had a baby a few months ago - I had told her that we desperately wnated a third and that we had been trying .. since she announced her pregnancy things between us have completely been ruined.. there were other issues in our friendship but because she got pg and she knew I wanted to she has assumed that I am bitter and resentful .. she has told my mil that we want nothing to do with the baby - which is so untrue - we went to visit the day after she was born and stayed for hours .. we have a gift here for the baby but my sil has cancelled all arrangements to see us and I havent been able to give it to her.. mil now is angry that we are ignoring the new baby while we are all upset that we are being so ridiculously treated ..this situation has gone on since July and it is devastating to me and my dcs who were very close to sils other children ..

Becaus of this situation I am frightened to tell my neighbour about our mc .. in case she treats me differently or starts to avoid us like my sil...

Really dont know what to do ..

Sorry xxxxxxxxxxx

Thanks Duchesse and Lissie. I feel so blessed to have my dd and feel bad for even moaning about not managing no.2, but it just seems so hard to accept that we won't get another.

Duritzfan, so sorry to hear about your mcs past and present. You have done nothing to deserve any of what has happened I'm sure. Regarding your neighbour, I had the same problem with my mc in January. A girl at work conceived at the same time as me and has just had a little boy. I mc at 9 weeks. It has been really tough to try and not be bitter. I hoped that I would at least be pregnant by the time she had her baby as I thought that it would make it easier, but it didn't work out that way. Strangely I found seeing her pregnant harder to deal with than seeing the baby. I just tried remember how much I cared for my friend and she tried to be sensitive to my situation. It didn't make it much easier but it helped.

Sending you all lots of good wishes. xxx

Hi Lissie... I just saw another post of yours - seems as though we have a bit in common sadly..

I dont know why they have taken so damn long to get us referred ... I think maybe because I have two dcs already they think you are not a priority.. I have mixed feelings about that
its good to be able to talk to people in here who know what its really like.. my dh is great but I cant share the detaisl with him - he would never agree to let me try again

the thing I struggle with most is all the other women having healthy happy pregnancies...
it just all seems so unfair and I wonder what on earth I did wrong to deserve all this..

my two dcs both knew about the baby - so it is devastating to hear them talking about how sad they are too...but after a scan at 8 weeks, we thought it should be ok to tell them...although we havent told anyone else except my best friend..

my neighbor who we are usually quite social with is pregnant - due a couple of weeks before I was - not sure how I am going to handle that yet .. constant reminder living next door..

hi lily and duritzfan, sorry to see you here, but hopefully the hut can help you.

lily, ds keeps putting baby on his present lists, it breaks my heart. we have had 10 mc's altogether now and see cons in dec. i know he will tell us to stop, but there are some more tests i want them to do.

duritzfan, so sorry for your loss, why has it taken so long to get a referral? it makes me so !

Hi... can I join too... feeling sorry for myself today as we have just come home from the hospital where they confirmed that I have had yet another mc...
We have two dcs but this third one is completely elusive ..this was mc number 9.. I had fertility issues ( endometriosis) before dc1, but conceived dc2 easily.. I just dont seem to be able to carry them..



clinic have FINALLY this morning agreed to refer me for tests... have no idea what this entails to be honest .. was still too gutted by the sight of my now totally empty uterus on the sonographers screen...
I mc'd on Monday - at almost ten weeks...

Lily- unashamed moaning is exactly what the hut is for. It's for people who know that ttc can and is shit for them. I hope you don't have to be here for long, but in the meantime, there's always plenty of virtual Green and Blacks.

knock knock, can I come in?
I have been ttc number two for the last two years. I had a mc in january and a couple of earlier ones over the year since but nothing seems to want to stick around. I had my bloods checked and everything looks ok. We are waiting for a referral to our local centre at the moment.
My dd is desperate to be a big sister and doesn't understand why everyone she knows has siblings and she doesn't. Sorry to moan on, I just feel rubbish today (and PMT ish ). I keep thinking that maybe I'm doing such a rubbish job with my dd that I'm not allowed another child. I'm a drama queen, I know, I just feel so completely depressed today. Hey ho, there is always next month......Wanders off looking for chocolate......Look forward to chatting with you all.

I have to say Shrek that once I got to the stage you're at now, things actually got easier psychologically and a lot more pleasant than they had been for the previous 4 years.

Thinking hard of you all still. Wish you didn't have to be here, but glad it's here. It certainly helped me to be able to be as miserable as I wanted/was without having to cheer up for other people's sake.

Hey Shreks, I'll be sorry to see you leave but totally understand. Good luck and thank you for the advice and support. xx

shreks - will miss you, but do understand your need to re-focus. I hope that you are able to forget all the technical ttc stuff and really enjoy your family time. I guess at least some of us will be here when you pop back. Thank you for all the support and encouragement you have given me, and thanks for the choccies and wine too!

shreks, totally understand. will m iss you. much love xxx

hello all

i am just stopping by to say thank you for all the support and care that comes from being part of this thread. i feel now though that the time has come for me to move out of the hut. i am still gloomy about the whole ftconceive/carry thing but i am making a very concerted effort to stop ttc. i have a wonderful dd and a lovely husband and although i do feel like our family is not yet complete,i am very blessed. i am going to focus on what we have rather than what we do not have. i think that this last cycle may have been a ftcarry rather than a ftconceive, which in some ways gives me hope that i am still capable and i am not dwelling on the 'what if' of a possible ftcarry. i am preparing myself for the fact that we might always be a family of three, but am giving it til dd's 5th birthday in april before the bell finally tolls. in the next few months, i plan to stop charting and watching (if that is even possible after so long of subconsciously just knowing) and try to get our sex life back to what it used to be is meant to be - fun. i am under no illusions that this will be easy or even change the situation with regards to the whole relaxing and it will happen thing, but i think if we are not pregnant in the next 6 months, and in all honesty the likelihood is close to zero, then i will not be pregnant again and i don't want to overshadow dd's life by wanting another baby so badly. i know this probably reads like a heroic speech but the bottom line is that all hope is gone and so the only way is up. for me, it is harder to hope and be consistently disappointed than not to hope at all. no doubt i will still feel dispairing at times, and to some extent i think that i might even still have a little hope that the next 6 months will bring the stork, but i don't think it is likely and so am preparing myself for that. i will still look in on you guys from time to time and i really hope that i read of a flurry of bfp's in the near future. thanks again for all your support, it has picked me up when i have been really down and i hope that i have been of the same support to you.

i would leave babydust although clearly mine is dud so i will leave wine and chocolate instead; keep a glass out for me in case i can't go through with this....

af arrive but strange emotions of and not being pregnant this month and relieved for not having to have another miscarriage, but let my body have a break. Basically just very hormonal.

Poppy - you you need a drink you should have it, we are all the worlds worst at putting our lives on hold for ttc.

polly - hope you get some sneaky ttc time even though away for the weekend.

Shrek - sorry that the af arrived to you too.

Shrek Definately time for a drink - large glass of red coming it's way! Big hug- it sucks! It's so frustating when after all our efforts lead to nothing!!! I guess you'll be jumping back on our crappy merry-go-round for another spin, feel like I've been on it for the last 4 years, I'm just going into week 2 - here I go again!!!

Polly have fun - you'll have to sneak a quickie if you can afterall it's how all those teenagers seem to do it!!!! Oh and don't forget a litre of vodka and 20 fags!!

I am definately going to need a drink tonight , I've had a hectic week and have been really good as haven't drunk for two weeks, is it really bad to start when I'm going into week 2????

Oh Shreks, so sorry . Am sending you a lovely bottle of wine, and a box of thorntons. And I hope you managed to have a good birthday. 30 is fab, I loved it. I am 38 now and the ticking of my clock is practically deafening, its v depressing.

Hello to skihorse and snazzy. And Lissie, hugs for you. I can't imagine what you are going through at the moment.

Well I should be ovulating this weekend and guess what we're doing? Going to London for our first weekend away without DD... sounds great, yes? Not so much - we're staying with friends in a flat share (min of 4 other people, poss 6). Not sure there will be much opportunity for ttc! Feckin typical... must pay more attention to calendar when booking weekend activities.

OK, I'm off to finish packing, got to leave in an hour and DH will be back soon expecting me to be ready . Have a good weekend all. xx

well af arrived sure enough as i poas have dreadful backache.

lissie - good to see you again. been wonering how you are.

First off - drinks for everyone. <ski throws her corporate Amex at the sexy bartend>

lissielou Your colleague sounds absolutely vile - just how can she still do that? Now, I'd like to think I'm old and wise enough to know that people are going to smoke & drink. But you'd do it in the garage right? And you would never, ever, EVER admit to it!

I'm sorry to hear about your nightmares... I was lucky - I dreamt I met my mc when he was a grown man (23 years old). It gave me some peace - it'll sound bonkers - but it just felt like he'd grown up somewhere else but that he was fine.

Downside - if he was 23 that means I'm going to be bloody well dead in 23.5 years time. Arse.

Lissie - big hugs to you I know how tough it is, hope your consultant appointment is good, have you got anything nice planned in the meantime? I think you deserve a treat and some 'me time'. As for your colleague I can't believe the justice of it all!!! I had to work with patients who had taken so many hard drugs and then injured themselves and still had beautiful babies when I had my MC it was heartbreaking and really made me wonder about karma. I changed jobs as I couldn't be nice. I can't believe that she is moaning and groaning around you. Maybe she will get a baby who doesn't like to sleep!! she might also stuggle to loose the baby bump! It's the small things that I hope for now!!!

rainbow I agree I think it's good to name them and acknowledge lost babies, I had such a strong feeling that my last baby was a boy and still picture him in my mind. I too have completely pigged out today, got home from work and demolished an Indian takeaway! Now starting on some halloween chocolates

Shrekmissus Happy Birthday congratulations!! 30 sounds very young to me (I'm 34 now) I can totally understand about the testing, I've crossed my fingers for the weekend for you, we need a BFP around here!!!

not mad at all. we have a rose bush that we planted for them all, but this last mc has knocked me so hard i dont know how to cope. my hormones are still messed up, im still so tired. we go to see cons on 4th dec and i know he will tell us to stop. maybe we should.

OK I am officially pigged off with the lack of af at the moment. My temper is short-fused to say the least, I feel as un-energetic and low as can be and generally just ugggg. I am eating and eating, today as soon as youngest went for nap. I sat and just watched tv, I could not be bothered doing anything except stuffing my face with food and watching rubbish on tv.

I have had enough.

Lissie - no it is no justice at all, can I wish your collegue more discomfort so that she has to leave you sooner than 2w? Sorry to hear about your nightmares of your m/c babies crying for you. I wish there was something that I could say that would help, but I know that your pain is so deep, that most things I could say would just sound trite. Have you named each of your precious lost children? My m/c baby I miss the most is one I named Sarah and it is hard to think that I can't hold her but I am so glad to think that she has brothers and sisters with her keeping her company and that she is not alone. Does that sound mad.

shreks, i second rainbow, 30 is a good age!

i dont even have the energy to rant anymore, my pg colleagueis going on mat leave in 2w and i cant wait. she has continued to smoke, drink and take drugs throughout her pg and has the nerve to moan about her bump as if its an inconvenience. meanwhile I am having nightmares about my miscarried babies crying for me.

no fucking justice.

Shrek - for your pain, but happy birthday ye old one!!!! Oh the joys of being that young, I was depressed for the whole year that I was 29 worrying about being 30 single and assuming I would never find anyone or ever have any children. But my 30th year was great, I then met my now dh! Hope that you get your dream this year.
I am also a day late for af but huge BFN's for me not even a hint of an evaporation line to make me know anything other than I am definitely not pregnant, just waiting and seeing how delayed af will be, I know it will be arriving soon . Anyway, I hope you have a great birthday, and that you get spoilt rotten today.

Lissie - I can understand the need to lick your wounds. Does your reappearance here, mean you are ready to rant or is the pain still too raw? I have been thinking of you.

Hi newbies here (ski-horse, glad you feel relaxed enough here to rant), by the way it is important that all newbies provide all the virtual drinks for their first visits!!!! So where is my vodka and tonic?????

hi all, sorry Ive not been on. have been very selfish and been licking my wounds. hello to all the newcomers, im sure you with love the hut as much as we do, its the one place you can scream about the shittiness of ftc.

how is everyone?

hi snazzy and skihorse
@ skihorse's rant
poppy - i haven't tested yet. i am now officially late (by a day anyway). i am terrified to test. i just don't want it to be another bfn
apart from nausea - inducing hunger this morning, other symptoms are not so strong...oh, i don't know whether i even have symptoms no, my boobs are a bit achey still, but i don't know if that's because a) i'm thinking about it and b) i want them to be.
i also don't want to test because it's my (30th) birthday today and how rubbish will that be if i test and it's bfn (which let's face it, it probably will be) and then the red witch pulls up as i poas. i am really trying to hold out til the weekend if i can...
i wish i hadn't felt so grotty for the lsat few weeks. i have been pretty sure i have definitely not been pregnant for so long now, that i have never really built my hopes up, but this month, for the first time in ages i have given credence to the possibility that i might actually be up the duff and am too scared to find out that i am wrong.
got a 'happy birthday and i'm pregnant' email this morning from a friend back home; her third and all of her three younger than my dd
last night dd was telling us how much she wanted a little brother or sister and also asked God about it in her prayers at bedtime

Hello Snazzy and skihorse welcome to the hut!!

Skihorse I've also had two book bought for me, which although sweet of people I just wanted to say 'don't you think I've read all this before??' I guess it is better than when I am trying to lay off the vino everyone can't help pointing out that everyone else smokes and drinks their heart out and just fall pregnant and maybe I should try that!

Had a good day today however and feeling good Hope everyone is ok

shreksmissus hello how are you today? Still waiting or have you tested??

Sorry, I'm new to this thread and I've not had a chance to read it all yet - but can I just say that if one more arsehole recommends this fucking book to me I'll rip out their ovaries with a biro.

Thank you for your time.

Seriously gals, does buying the book guarantee pregnancy? Will we learn new and wonderful things such as i) don't be an alcoholic, ii) lay off the smack, iii) eat fewer pies, iv) smoke menthols because they're green - ergo healthy. patronising wankers.

Hello new here!

Oh and had two other people at work tell me that I should have children as life really isn't fulfilling without them! I really didn't need that today, I was only asking how their children were. I thought to myself 'you obviousl had no problems ttc otherwise you would never go there'

Apart from all that it's been a great weekend! and I am feeing quite positive this month

Hello

shrek I completely know what you mean about AF, I can't even remember what it felt like to be pregnant. When I hear about all the problems and hard work it is to have a baby I don't know how I'll cope as I 'm finding ttc so exhausting, emotionally draining and depressing!!! How shocked will we be when we get our BFP's!!!!

fishie AF arrived last week and like you although you get the down feeling that you are not PG it is also a little relief, so wierd!!

thought I might share with you this weeks main bug bear - friends who have only been with boyfriends for under a year already talking about ttc soon!!! I keep thinking that I was ttc years before they met and they will probably have two before I get another BFP!!!

I feel really mean and nasty but I would love to have a few other people around me who don't conceive in the first month of trying!!!

hi fishie - it's weird isn't it?

shrek i am starting to feel very relieved when period arrives. really messes with your head this stuff doesn't it.

i am in a very strange place right now. i am scared to test in case it's -ve but scared at the thought of being pregnant too. i have crazily symptom spotted and found plenty, don't know if i have dreamt them or not, i haven't dared to raise my hopes but i know that i the crash down will be a bigger thump than the last few months... well due tomorrow but no obvious signs of af except that now i have typed that on here, she'll be packing her big red bag and arriving shortly, i imagine... ho hum.

shrek - sounds like you have a good plan there. As for me, I am about 11dpo approx. af due in the next couple of days. I am not hopeful, but still wishful!

hi rainbow i thought i hada killed the thread.
how far through the 2ww are you? if last bleed was af then i have another 2 days to wait. i have felt rubbish ever since then but have resisted the urge to test again so am still in limbo. i am waitng til this af is actually late

Shrek - I know what you mean about the prospect of a bfp being scary. I am glad that your friend reassured you that your dd will not miss out if she gets a sibling.

I am in the horrible 2ww and hating it this time.

anyone else got to the point where the prospect of a bfp might even be a bit scary?

i feel like i have wanted this for so long and it has screwed me up that now i am scared of it actually happening. how will it affect dd? how will it affect our family? will i love it enough, as much as dd? one thing though, today i spoke to my lovely friend who helped me put some things into perspective, and she sadi a 5 year gap will probably be perfect for dd, as she is so grown up anyway that she will probably love teaching a little sibling. in fact dd says that's what she wants to do anyway

Hello pollypoo I am also borerline diabetic so I shouldn't really eat sugar so I'll definately go on that website.

Heebeejeebee - thanks for your post, I am feeling rubbish today as a really good friend is finishing work for mat leave, when I started ttc she wasn't even married and has been travelling the world etc... and then decided to ttc and fell pregnant in the first month. Am really pleased for her but am so sad thinking I will never be in that situation. AF arrived today to smack me in the face again!!!

I am hopefully going to try IUI it has taken me so long to convince DH that it is not going to happen naturally and he has just agreed to try it. He is not really keen on IVF andI am so worried that if IUI doesn't work we are going to have to have really difficult talks. I just feel it's so unfair as it seems to be taking all the magic out of having a baby!

Hello Poppy, welcome to the hut

I keep getting a candida overgrowth in my gut, and do sometimes get vaginal thrush too (sorry tmi!), although the two don't necessarily go together.

I know when its flared up again (usually because I am rubbish at eating the odd treat... one leads to another and another and another until I just gorge myself ). I usually get very very tired, sore throat, earache, headaches, muscles ache, bloating, constipation and/or diarrhoea, and when its really bad I also get very down, irregular periods, EVIL pmt.... the list just goes on.

Have a look at the National Candida Society's website (candida-society.org). They have quite a good checklist of symptons, as well as things that can set it off.

If you think you may have it, I'd suggest getting tested, although your doctor probably won't want to bother. I go to a lovely lady in Somerset who runs a company called Allergy Test UK - she does have testers around the country. Where are you based? If you have got it, you will probably have to cut out some foods and take some supplements to help repair the damage to your gut, but it shouldn't be forever and you can usually start re-introducing foods again slowly after 8 weeks. Unless you are like me - I am unable to do it slowly and end up with the same problems again and again.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I hope it is of use.

Poppy - you've come to the right place! I'm having the same nightmare as you - my friends are conceiving no 2 and I haven't managed one yet I am going to be referred for the lap and dye next month, then once I've had that, will be referred for IVF (at 37 apparently the chances of IUI working are minimal)

I'm taking the Zita West vits and also the Zita West omega 3 due to being borderline for killer cells. DH is actually taking more than me.

It just seems so unfair, doesn't it? Fingers crossed that it happens very soon for us

Whoops should be thrush not trush!!!!

Hello guys,

Can I join???

Used to message alot on MN then tried to forget about all this ttc thingy (it didn't work!). Am now hoping to try IUI in December and really need to speak to others going through ttc again. My story is ttc for nearly 4 years, 1 mc 3.5 years ago and nothing since. Diagnosed with unexplained infertility

pollypoo what is this Candida thingy and how did you know what it was?? I have diabetes and before I was diagnosed was constantly having trush, is it related?? What can I do to help it if it is???

Also does anyone know what I should be taking to maximise things for 3 months time? Am fed up after being on folic acid for 4 years but feel I should make the effort in the short term to maximise IUI

I'm really glad I popped back am so sick of super fertile friends who are all pregnant with number 2 and weren't even trying when I had my mc. One of my closest friends explained to me that I was over 30 and fertility does decline! Even though she waited until 32 to have her first and got pregnant straight away with no. 2 at 34!!! I really need some ttc buddies!!

Hi Rainbow - my friend ended up with a similar result. She'd had 2 mc and went for the tests. She took asprin + had a jab early on (also related to blood clotting)and I'm pleased to report she has a beautiful 6 month old now.
I take baby asprin too due to my pcos.
I'm good thank you - all going well at last!
I think of you too - I'll keep popping back to hopefully read some good news soon.

Take care x

Hi Rainbow. Glad to hear the tests came back ok. I take junior asprin too (though I take it all the time, not just from when I get a positive test). As you say, at least you feel like you are doing something constructive..

Well I got my blood test results back and next time I get pregnant I have to take asprin, no positive test except one that was borderline, so the asprin is as a precaution, well at least it gives me something to do.

Hi to everyone.

Hi Mowmi - I am back with ttc, but not raising any hopes too soon. I have an appointment on Monday with the recurrent miscarriage clinic, to get the results of blood tests to see if there is any reason for the m/c's, but I don't expect to get anything but normal results, so not sure that they will be able to do anything to help. Hope your pregnancy is going well, I think of you often.

Hello Ladies,

Just popping in to say hello to Rainbowdays - how you doing? What's the latest news with you? Just read you're trying not to think about all things ttc - really hope you get the pregnancy you deserve soon.

xx

Lissie - just wondering how you are, thinking of you.

Sigh... me too Isle... I seem to be surviving on food that tastes like cardboard and so many supplements that I rattle - the lengths I will go to to get PG seem to have no bounds. Still, at least I am half a stone lighter... every cloud has a silver lining and all that!

I am determined next month will be THE month. It is my new positive mental attitude.

Drink up now - medicinal purposes - its good for you!

Thanks Polly, I've been missing my glass of red lately!

Welcome Isle :-) (slopes over... offers large glass of red, and some green and blacks)

Why must everyone, including the nurse at the FC try to blow smoke up my arse??? "It's ok, wait two more days - those hpt don't mean anything, I've seen women get pg on day 14 with only a 40 hCG level..." ARGGGG!

yes, but I confimed with her that she's also seen plenty of women who had better response and embies than me also fail - right? RIGHT! So leave me to my gloom and doom, because there are no miracles on day 13 and 14 dpo.

False hopes and careening blindly into a brick wall doesn't help, people! At least I have my let down in stages - not all at once! Do they want me picking out baby names and browsing catalogs until the moment they call with the bad news??? I just don't get it!

rant over - hi everyone I'm isle - LOL

Hi all

Shreks - how are things?

Tatty - fingers crossed your bloods come back ok and you get your appointment through quickly (I think I waited about 10 weeks for mine).

Polly Glad you had a nice weekend! I put DH on the Zita West vitamen, but he did a bit of research himself and is also taking flaxseed, gingseng and saw palmetto. There is another one but I can't remember what its called. I love the sound of horneygoatweed though!!!!

Thanks Shrek. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. Any developments? I've been sort of putting my head in the sand, but nine months in I am going to start to be more pro-active. So, I'm doing blood tests this month, and after that will be referred to clinic at the hosp (according to GP anyway).

Hey all

Just come back from a girls weekend in Devon so feeling a little less like I want to bash DH with frying pan.

Tatty, yes I've had some bloods done, the first lot my FSH and LH levels were raised. But after a couple of months of acupuncture they are back down in the 'normal' range thankfully. The Doc won't do anything else now until DH does his test... and I will think I will die waiting for that to happen. So I guess all I can do is carrying on with the acupuncture and supplements, get some exercise and PRAY that I get pg soon. (and in the mean time try not to be jealous of everyone around me with their gorgeous bumps and/or try not to snap at people when they come out with the usual "well meaning" comments regarding our lack of bubba no2.. GARRRR )

What supplements have you got your DH on Heebee? Mine is on zinc, maca and hornygoatweed! If there is anything else worth trying though, I am happy to --force them down his throat-- get some for DH.

Shreks I know how you feel - it seems that every month is a rollercoaster of hopes and emotions and sometimes it is so bad I just want to give up. But like you I always find another reason to keep going. Still got everything crossed for you. x

hello to tattycoram*

*heebee - still in limbo. i still have all the symptoms but i just can't get my hopes up. they're all a bit hit and miss anyway, sometimes there sometimes not so bad. i decided i wasn't yesterday and tried to stop being so emotional all the time, but then i cried all afternoon and i don't know why and then last night my boobs were kind of throbbing! i just don't know. if last bleed was af then should be ovulating again around about now, and next period due day before my birthday. i am so sick of tracking my body and everytime i think, not going to do this anymore and am ok with it, something else happens to tip the scale and give a little hope

Howdy all

Polly DH doesn't really want to do IVF either, though we get our 2 free goes as we're 37 and ttc no 1. i think he just wants to do it normally. Personally I don't care - whichever is quicker!! However he is happy to do the tests (did one this week, in fact!) and is taking every supplement under the sun...

Shrek I hate that limbo state, where there's still an element of hope, but you just don't know... Any news?

lissie - hope you are ok

Oh Polly, that sounds really confusing for you. How frustrating.It sounds like you have reached a brick wall. Have the tests you have done ruled out any particular issue from yuour side? I'm coming up to 38 and have been actively ttc no 2 for nine months, so am in a similair-ish boat.

evening all <slopes in with chocolate fudge brownies>

polly - men are funny creatures aren't they? they seem to wonder, first and foremost, how something will affect them. i guess we're all a bit like that really. do you think he may come round with a bit more time (i know that is something none of us feel we can bear any more, time, i mean).

lissie how are things? heebee? rainbow?

well... should be due a period today if ov'd when thought and the bleed was not af. but nothing except rampant pmt: crying at nothing, sore boobs, bad mood, nausea/indigestion, why does pmt have to be so similar to symptoms? hpt=still bfn i know i am not pregnant really, but my body is making a good performance of it <sobs off, muttering "i'm not pregnant, i know i am not, or worse, i am and it's not going to progress>

Tatty

His concerns are valid I think, and things that have crossed my mind, like what effect will another baby have on our relationship. But he also thinks that my desire for another bubba somehow devalues him and DD, and I just cannot get it through to him that this is not the case.

He says that because of his concerns he is happy to try as we have for the last 15 months, but there is a world of difference between trying, and going for acupuncture/sperm tests etc etc. His only concession is to take supplements. He is against IVF for reasons I can't quite understand, and we wouldn't be able to get IVF for free, or afford it ourselves. But I just wish he'd do the damn sperm test - I've done as much as I can and the doctor can't just refer me to the fertility clinic. I would really like to know if there is a problem, so we can either stop putting ourselves through this, or work out how to fix it.

He did say something which made me v sad - when I was saying how amazing motherhood is and how its the best thing I've ever done (hence wanting to do it again and again), he said fatherhood is the hardest thing he's ever had to do. I think its because he's always been quite selfish and hates having to be the breadwinner (even though we both agreed before DD that I should stay at home), and he hates that he doesn't have the same free time to himself anymore, stuff like that. But at the same time he absolutely adores Boo, she is the apple of his eye.

He just seems a mass of contradictions. He wants Boo to have a sibling, but he doesn't want a baby. He wants us to have another baby, but he doesn't want to go as far as I would to have another.

I suppose because he is not that bothered, he kind of feels 'if it happens, great. If it doesn't, not the end of the world'. But that doesn't take account of my feelings.

Sorry, really long post again

Lissie thinking of you. And Shreks how are you? I can so empathise with what you are going through.

Have a good day all. x

Oh Polly . Did he say what his concerns are? Is this totally out of the blue for you?

Hello, anyone in here? [... stomps in, throws self in a heap in corner, open bottle of vodka...]

I am just wondering why on earth I bother... I am rattling with the amount of supplements I am taking, I've been for another bout of acupuncture, I'm sorting out my diet etc etc.

But had big chat with DH (see AIBU to want to hit DH around the back of the head with frying pan thread).

He has concerns about having another child, which he has kept to himself for months and months, and hence why it feels like I am the only one ttc. He won't go for acupuncture or do the sperm test for the doctor.

ffs I am 38, I haven't got time for him to play silly buggers - he said he didn't tell me his concerns before because he was waiting for me to ask. grrrrr!

He says he does understand how desperate I am for another bubba. Which makes all this all the more hurtful... I know I am being a bit overdramatic but I feel like he is digging his heels in to deny me what I most desire, because the thing I most desire isn't him. (He has never recovered from the fact he ceased to get so much attention when DD arrived.)

If I wasn't on this darn anti-candida diet, I'd be breaking open the chocolate and red wine. And trying to drown myself in it

Lissie - how are you doing?

heebee- that you got your hopes dashed.

shrek - I hope you are right and that something is afoot as you say. Can understand why you are confused though.

As for me I am focussed on work at the moment, so a bit distracted from mn and ftc.

how is everyone?
where is everyone?

no news here...except i cannot shake the feeling that summat strange is afoot. i know i am setting myself up for major disappointment because i am most likely not pregnant, but like i say i just can't shake the feeling. looking back, when i was pg with dd knew even before i knew, iyswim, and also when i had the last confirmed mc. i am over-analysing every possible symptom: do i feel sick? yes, from time to time. are my boobs sore? yes, today and armpits too. am i weeing more? hhmmmm, not sure, never really notice how much i wee. bleed in relation to ewcm just not long enough timeframe to be a period and it was very light by comparison, but i have forgotten what normal is, and i still have mild back and belly cramping. and tonight, my friend's 8 year old daughter asked me if i was pregnant (my poor friend who knows all about this carry-on, was dying with embarrassment) but bfn last night on hpt, although if ov when i thought then period only would have been due today/tomorrow. but who knows? i am so confused

shrek - any news today? Keeping every thing crossed for you.

Hello heebee, so sorry to hear your news

I hope the gin helped.xx

Hi all

Well AF has just arrived. Doubly depressing as (a) this is only day 24 and (b) I had a spot of blood on day 21 (8 days post ov) when I wiped (Shrek - you and I will be the implantation bleeding queens after this cycle). Took a test the next day (my prescriptions cost £350 so would like to avoid putting them in if poss!) and got a faint line on a First Response. Took a First Response, Clearblue and a hospital cheapie today - all negative then af arrives this evening.

So I assume I must have had a dodgy test last week?

Gone from being on cloud 9 back down to earth with a massive bump and am drowing my sorrows in gin

Lisse - how are you feeling?

lissie - how are you feeling today?

rainbow -thanks, you don't have to explain about not answering, like i said, i was fed up and over-sensitive <symptom maybe >

i was so past symptom spotting, but every time i come to the conclusion all hope is gone, something odd happens to my cycle that makes me think 'just maybe'...

so to add to that, have period pain, but bleeding/spotting stoppedhave intermittently achey nipples can't decide if i am nauseas or hungry feel very close to tears and quite sensitive, feel quite premenstrual actually. but who knows what's going on; a normal cycle for me seems to be a thing of the past

Lissie, so sorry that your hormones are giving you a rough time after such a sad time of losing yet another pregnancy. . Ironically in some ways the crying might be at least a little better than holding all the sadness inside you. But there is nothing good about this happening to you again. I hope the hormones settle again soon for you.

Shreks - I read your implantation questions but did not answer before as I don't know the answers! It might be implantation bleeding but I am not sure how soon after an initial implantation bleed a positive test would be expected, I guess like most things it is different in all pregnancies. I do know that it takes about 3 days after the levels in the blood start to rise for it to reach sufficient levels in urine tests to become positive. So therefore it would logically be possibly 3 days after the bleed for a sensitive test to show positive, and even then as you know it would not always be positive at that point. So I hope that it will be good, but just trying not to raise your hopes just in case too!

Hi polly - welcome to the gang here.

oh lissie
prayers for you. i am so sorry this is happening to you again.

am really rough actually. hormones are going nuts and have spent past few days crying pretty much constantly. advised to wait a month etc, but told dh that we should try again straight away. had ov'd from good side.

hey lissie stupid question, but how are you doing?

afternoon all and welcome to pollypoo.

shreks, if i were you i would leave it another 5 days and retest then. entirely possible that it is IB.

had scan yesterday and confirmed mc. again.
in double figures now.

shit.

thanks polly! i was googling too after i posted i did read one site that said ib occurs between 5-12 days, but the rest said 6 days onwards. i actually have no idea when or even if i ovulated this month, it's just that if i ovulated when i think that i did, then weird bleed began 5 days later.
who knows...? another bfn this evening but that is only 9dpo and even with sensitive tests it's rare to get a bfp then apparently.

Hmmm... think I had better start running again!

Morning shrek

I didn't have IB with DD but was just googling for you... Found this which is quite interesting...

•Appearance - Implantation bleeding tends to be a lighter pink/brown colour rather than the dark red that's usual for menstrual blood.

•Timing - If you conceive you will experience implantation bleeding before your period is due, usually around 9 days after you ovulate. (although most sites I looked at say IB can happen 6-10 days after OV)

•Duration - Implantation bleeding tends only to last for a day or two and occurs intermittently.

•Heaviness - Unlike the progressively heavy flow of a menstrual period, implantation bleeding tends only to occur as light spotting or coloured discharge.

Not sure how early you can test though, sorry. Keeping everything crossed for you xx

ok - daft questions to which i probably know the answers to, but this is very odd for me.
1) when do you reckon the earliest for an implantation bleed would be? is 5 days from conception really just a bit too quick?
2) if you have and implantation bleed, would the htp be +ve whilst bleeding or not til a few days after?
weird period now stopped: no pain, pretty light and only 2 days bleeding followed by nothing then very light dark spotting on day 4 now completely over (sorry tmi) but normally have lots of pain, lots of blood and spotting continues til day 7. what do you think? tried to ask on the rest of the board but question ignored unanswered <fed up and over-sensitive emoticon>

Hi all

Welcome Polly - they never told me the results of any of my day 21 tests either - just that they were fine. I don't think they like you to have too much information!

Well I'm mid 2ww at the moment. The bankruptingly expensive injections and double strength tamoxifen did their job and I produced 4 eggs, though much to my consultant's relief, only 3 were viable, though even he was looking a bit nervous with 3. Annoyingly, (or maybe not) the steroids I'm on for the killer cells stuff mask any symptoms so there is no point in me trying to spot..

DH, bless him, also read up on extra supplements for him and spent a small fortune in holland and barrett.

Incidentally, I had a friend who was ttc for 2 years and went on a detox and got her bfp.. I tried it but it didn't do anything for me, but you never know...

Lissie - hope you're ok

Hi again Annie - yes I had day 21 tests. I don't know what the numbers were - I was just told they were normal.

Hi annie - oh yes, I've been very studious! Apparently with candida you can still have vodka or gin with fruit juice (not from concentrate). But after my birthday blowout last weekend I am giving up coffee, booze, dairy, sugar and yeast... hence I am left with cardboard. Or food that just tastes like cardboard.

Ooh you are bfp?! So the supplements have worked?!! That gives me hope YAY!!! Congratulations and well done for not accepting the diagnosis handed out by the medical profession (did I read that you were told you wouldn't conceive without IVF?).

I used to run in my early 20's and would love to start again but on the few occasions I've tried I nearly died! Maybe cycling instead... I could get the bike out and dust the cobwebs off

Unfortunately we can't try this month due to the tablets I'm on.... but maybe if I take all the supplements for a month and try and get some exercise then next month month could be the month. I'll keep you posted!

Thanks for all the advice

oh fuck. lissie i've only just seen this.

so sorry, so so sorry.

annie- I also got pregnant as soon as I started running. In fact both pregnancies (the one I lost in 2006 and the now 2 week old Bug) in the last 6 years were a month or two after starting running again. I haven't run knowingly at any other time in the 6 years, and was barren as barren can be for most of those years. I reckon it's the boost it gave my metabolism (am very slightly hypothyroid) that contributed.

Good work on the supplements Polly - you have been reading my posts! That last FSh reading was pretty good. Maybe the 28 one was just a one off. I also started running in the months before I conceived - did a 10k run the weekend I conceived in fact! I will never know if that made a difference either but I do think the combination of factors must have been good for my general health regardless.

I don't think I ever had an LH reading - have you had your day 21 progesterone levels checked?

I was never actually formally DX with candida but I am pretty sure I had it. Big thing for me was drastically reducing drinking.

Ok, just spoke to the nurse at my surgery - she said my blood results in June were

FSH 28.8
LH 20.2

And the results from the bloods taken this week are:

FSH 8.9 (which is normal-ish, isn't it?)
LH 3.2 (I have no idea whether this is low or high.....)

And now I am more confused than ever! The only thing I've done differently since June is have acupuncture.

I've just been online shopping and bought wheatgrass, spirolina and 7 keto... I hope that lot will still be ok given new results? Now I am confused....

And from another thread, I have bought Maca for DH! Talk about throw everything at the problem and hope something will stick

Hey Anniemac - bloody candida . I was diagnosed 4 years ago and when I can eat sensibly I am fine.... however, I don't think drinking red wine, eating cheese straws and finishing DD leftovers can really be classed as eating sensibly . How long have you suffered? Do you manage it better than me?

I'm wondering if you might know the answer to this question... I've been given a really high dose of caprylic acid (amongst other things) for a month. And was told NOT to get pregnant whilst taking this. (She wanted me to do 3 months but I'm not getting any younger and I promised I would be very very good with my diet so we compromised on a month).

Do you know why shouldn't get pg (chance would a fine thing!) whilst on the caprylic acid? I did ask but she wasn't sure, and even thought it might just be a kind of bog standard warning they put on all supplements, just to cover themselves.

Of course DH is well chuffed to have a month off!

Thank you :-)

Snap to the candida too Polly!

Hi Anniemac and Shrekmissus, thank you for your comments. I am feeling better today, determined to be more positive and stop moping (as DH put it..... arghhh!). And it was good to hear that your hormone levels were up before conceiving - will have a look at the older posts as you suggested.

I'm on the case and cleaning the house and starting a very strict diet today (I have recurrent infections of thrush in my gut and my dietician told me yesterday that can cause fertility probs... and I have eating ALL the wrong stuff lately.. oops). So I'm now on a diet of cardboard and vodka... except I'm also trying to give up the vodka [mmm]

We'll see what the doctor says about the next blood results.

Lissie, I've just been reading back through all the posts and I know I don't know you, but I was so sorry to read your news. Why is nature such a bloody cruel mistress? I think we should all gang up on her and give her a good hiding.

Anyway... on with the cleaning/dog walking/washing/anything to keep me busy and therefore not moping thinking.

Oh god Lissie so sorry

Pollypoo - don't want to raise your hopes but my fsh was high - peaking at an astonishing 20 the month before I conceived (after over 2 years trying for number 2). Do a search against my name and FSH on teh conception board and you will find the sorts of things I took/did to try to improve my chances. May not have done anything but then again maybe it did.

Lissie - thinking of you

hi pollypoo - newbies, vodka and green'n'blacks always welcome, although sorry we have a new hutee - tis crap that you feel rubbish enough to be here, and yep, those inane comments drive us all nuts

lissie i am so sorry

Hey, can I join the hut? I bring offerings of vodka and green & blacks...

I'm in a grump. I'm 38, had dd (2) after 4 months ttc. Been ttc for No 2 for 15 months.

Darling mother told me today her menopause started v early, as did her mother's - but she can't remember how early is early.

DH won't do sperm test and says it will happen if its meant to be.

Doctor told me blood tests revealed my LH and FSH levels are raised slightly. So am now paranoid about being peri-menopausal.

And if one more person tells me 1) to chill out or it will never happen, or 2) you already have a beautiful daughter, can't you just be grateful for that? I will absolutely lose my mind... grrr

thank you heebee x

Lissie - I saw your posts earlier but I've been away and was just coming on here to congratulate you and saw this

thank you. am feeling a little better now, bleeding seems tpo have slowed a little. fingers have swollen though which is odd, rings are tight.

lissie -

I am just so gutted for you, this is a very cruel joke you poor love just don't know what to say this time its utterly shite and so unfair

hello all, have some v bad news. about 9.30pm last night i started to feel very unwell, temp soared and nearly fainted, about 1hr later started cramping.

bleeding started with a gush this morning. has slowed down significantly, still cramping a bit but worst cramps were about 11.30am when clots passed. sorry if tmi.

feeling very low and emotional calling cons tomorrow when im a bit stronger.

thank you all for sticky vibes anyway xxx

bah
i have a period!!! what is going on there? either:
a) i ovulated around the normal time (as cycle length bang on normal 25 days - which is a good thing given i have taken no meds this month) and missed the lh surge because it was so speedy - distinct possibility
b) i ovulated at the weekend just gone (based on cm) and this is just weird - unlikely; cm likely was pre-menstrual
c) this cycle - anovulatory - distinct possibility
d) this is an implantation bleed from normal ovulation <sarcastic laugh> and besides the hpt (after bleeding began) was -ve
i am fed up with this
i used to worry that i couldn't hang on to the ones i conceived, now it seems i can't conceive at all

fishie <hairstroke> its very hard and sad.

nothing much to report here, waiting for call from consultants secretary about scan.

lissie - just popping in to see how you were doing.

Fishie - it is so hard, even when people are sympathetic, it is hard to take.

fishie <hairstrokes>

lissie i think my period is due around the 18th sept,

i explained that the reason there was no no2 was just that one hadn't come. she was v sympathetic and we agreed that no children would be a catastrophe but the one i have is very nice. also lots of my family had children later.

i didn't tell her how long we'd been trying, no point in sharing the gloom.

thank you fishie, but how awful. what did you say?

lissie that is fantastic news. fingers very tightly crossed for you.

last night my mum offered me money to cover mat leave/childcare to have another child in case it was that which was stopping us but how nice of her.

thank you shreks, when is your period due then?

everything crossed lissie (except legs ) hope it sticks well

i think that i have finally ovulated based on ewm (which for the first time in i can't remember how long, lasted two days - yay!, some bloating and tenderness, so i guess i am now in the 2ww. i felt pretty positive based on the ewcm and timing os sex so we'll see, but been here so many times before...

well, dont know if you have all read between the lines (or seen my symptom thread, but am officially up-duffed (for now), no sign of anything going wrong yet though. call tomorrow for early scan <crosses legs> i know how bitter-sweet this is for you all, so just want to say thank you for all your good wishes, am not ready to leave the hut yet if thats ok?

Lissie I really really hope this is it for you this time.

Lissie - Still hoping and praying for you, this must be it this time.

thank you shreks, another day down and no sign of things going wrong!!! still not holding breath though.

really hoping for you lissie

im really good actually. thankfully still racked with symptoms, and have now moved across to knicker checking...

lissie - how are you? still racked with symptoms?

rainbows, not yet. although the clomid is making symptom spotting much easier have a hpt to use tomorrow!

Hi Annie - great to hear that things are going well so far. let us know how the scan goes in 2 weeks.

what thread should I be stalking???? I want to know what your should be confession is Lissie, ..... hoping it is what it could be?

lol, which one? the checklist? am driving myself mad! have a mild sneaky suspicion but dont want to raise my hopes. (but i really, really do!)

Also wanted to add that I agree about Lissie's "squaring up" comment. It’s a hard thing to do but its also a good thing to do. I know I tried really hard to square my shoulders about this whole FTC lark myself over the last years (not always successfully as most of you will know!) But I do know that when I did pull it off it was always when I felt my most serene (and god knows if you ever could do with serenity its when FTC!)

wow annie 18 weeks!
lissie i have just seen your other thread - is there anything you want to confess??

Hi both - holiday was great thanks Lissie - mostly a staycation with a few little trips to visit people etc here and there. I loved it just spending time with DD was so lush, she is the best kid in the world (sorry slightly biased opinion!).

I am 18 weeks pregnant now - so far so good, touch wood. Much more nervous about this pregnancy than with DD but thats bound to happen, right? I have my "scary" heart structure and anomaly scans in just over 2 weeks. Generally feeling pretty lucky to be here.

yes annie it is really good to see you how are you?

lissie you sound like you're being really brave (sorry i know that sounds twee but i don't know how else to put it) i really admire you "squaring up to what [you've] got"

ANNIE!! lovely to see you. how are you doing m'love? how was your hol (and thank you xx)

Hi all just saw this thread and as I have been on holiday a while have been catching up on everyone's Augusts - sad to see there is not much in the way of good news for any of you (excusing Duchesse - congratulations).

All in all it really isn't fair.

Rainbow gutted to hear about your latest MC you poor thing - but can also understand why you want to try again straight away.

Lissie what a shitty decision about egg sharing - I know you were counting on this

Shrek - just wish your body would start doing what you need it to do

And to all that I missed too… so sorry you are still stuck in this FTC limbo.

Its all so horribly unfair and you all deserve a break but as we know nothing except a viable pregnancy is going to give you that "break". Stay strong ladies I am rooting for all of you (not sure if that helps but I hope it does).

shreks, no, dont think so. i understand why they have said no, and think at some point we just have to square our shoulders and accept what we've got.

sex for having sex whats that like? dh and i have a 7d window for sex, cant post ov because of rmc, cant 1st part because of period (ick)

how's everyone else anyway? what's next for you lissie? are you appealing your clinic decision?

interestingly, as i was scrolling through the ttc board i was looking at the opk thread, and a few people said they never got a +ve opk and are now x months pregnant or their baby is x months/years old <i know given my history, i am clutching at cow fodder but hey>. anyway, it was doing my head in and i was stressing too much so i decided not to bother peeing on the sticks, so haven't for the last few days. no idea if i ov'd or not, have been at it every few days trying not to think about it - it was nearly like having sex for sex's sakei just didn't want to get to the end of 4 weeks never having had an opk and thinking my cycle was going to last another 2 weeks. if nowt happens, and af doesn't show - i'll know i haven't ov'd, go back to the docs and start again...or maybe i'll give up - ha ha NOT

shreks, any joy?

not feeling quite so gloomy this morning. perhaps i might ov in the next day or so.

hi all

lissie sorry to read about the egg thing. are you able to appeal at all?

rainbow and heebee have tried several times to stop trying but always bottle it around ovulation

decided not to take clomid this month to give myself a break (and also because we are away from home for just over a month, away from doctors and monitoring etc) but then thought i would opk instead [idiot] started using them good and early so as not to miss it and am still using them. i thought i had some ov pain, <tmi> cm is changing, was sure i would have a +ve by now, but no. if it doesn't show +ve tomorrow...<disappointment to the point of dispairing emoticon> i am scared that my body can't function at all without drugs... i am too young to go through the menopause...i haven't had any tests to check for that yet. my doc here just said that clomid was worth a shot but didn't really do a lot of testing before he prescribed it, actually he hasn't tested for anything in particular, except for a series of scans - he just said i probably am not ovulatiing every month as i am getting older. i was very regular (albeit upto 3 days either side of the textbook 28- still regular in medical terms) before we emmigrated so if the flights have cocked everything up i am completely amazed that it is still buggered up after 8 months.... i am so sick of this, i am just rambling now. i had really hoped that clomid would work, then i had a stupid notion that we would conceive whilst i was having a clomid break, but it seems i'm not going to ov without it and then we'll have to wait for af again, and so it goes on. i wish i hadn't opk'd

Lissie - I'm so sorry. I just saw your other thread too. It seems astonishing that they refuse your eggs over a problem that is more implantation. Can you appeal?

Rainbow - I have failed on the couple of occaisions we tried to take a month off. I would have to throw my blooming CB monitor out of the window (for all the use its done me)

rainbows, every month i say "no more" every month i give in. I use ftc, as i too fail to carry.

clinic has said no.
because of recurrent mc.
am in shock.

on plus side have you seen duchesses thread?

Heebee - sorry to hear that your dh is rethinking options, hopefully he will come around to the idea soon for you.

Lizzie - is there still no news from the clinics decision?

Shreks - sorry to hear you down about f/ttc, I hope you got hold of some european chocolate, if not I have brought here a barrel full of it.

Well my plans for the month off of losing some weight have gone out the window, I have been pigging out as much as usual and no weight loss is miraculously occuring. I am currently ovulating again and obviously re-thinking the month off idea! I know I need to take a month off, but hey, what is logical about any of this stuff.

I also have a problem with the abbriviations ttc or ftc, I seem to have no problem with the concieving part, it is the staying pregnant part that my body doesnt seem to be able to do at the moment, so I am not ttc or ftc, but failing to have a successful pregnancy, what abbriviation could I have for that!!!!!

Anyway I hope people are having a better day than me.

heebeejeebee, i understand your dhs reservations, its a tough decision to have to make. but i agree, the waiting list is long, you may as well give it a go. hope it wont come to that though.

still no news from clinic would be nice to know before our first appointment.

Rainbows - a bottle glass of wine sounds just what you need.

DH said last night that he doesn't want to try IVF, assuming we ftc between now and the end of the year (which is when they will refer us). I think he actually meant he wants a break from the fertility drugs and procedures. I pointed out to him that there would be a waiting list on the NHS for ivf anyway, so we might as well do the 2 free NHS goes and see where we go from there.

Lissie - any news?

oh rainbows, no wonder you want a break, i totally understand and think it will do you good.

how is everyuone?

Lissie - so sorry to hear that you are waiting to find out the decision, it is not fair sometimes how things work but I hope that this is not one of those times, and that the person who is making the decision can really see the full situation, and not base it on unfair judgements. Thinking of you.

Well I have decided to take a month off of conceiving! I think my body needs a break from being pregnant, then not, then pg again... It has been a big relief since I decided this, and I just have to work on keeping my dh away from me now until the danger time has passed. Nature has been nice to me this time, and the miscarriage was relatively easy. I am going to have a glass of wine in a minute and relax further now I have my laptop back from repairs I can give myself a big dose of MN!

Here you are ladies, a box of wine for us all, but just watch out for the chocolate truffles balanced on the top.

it is, and to give up after so long feels like a huge waste of time and energy.

<returns with large glasses and bottle of rose>
it's the never-ending roller-coaster you can't get off...

it's rubbish isn't it lissie?

aw thanks ladies, called yesterday and egg share coordinator is off til tuesday so no wiser now. will def appeal though if the answer is no.

shreks <hairstroke> youve just summed up how we feel about it

typo - can't seem to get on with my life

oh bum lissie just read your other thread surely if they are only worried about your mothers health in case it is familial issues, if it's not how can they refuse you, esp. if you are built differently to your mother anyway? hope it works out and that going to the head of unit means that an expert will look at your case and make a decision based on facts not if's and maybe's.

well, thoroughly depressed at f/ttc. i don;t think it's ever going to happen but i just seem to ge ton with my life; i just spend all the time, counting my cycle days and daydreaming about having more children and then i panic that the age gap will be so big i fi ever do get pg that dd will resent her siblings she tells me how she will be a really good big sis and teach a little brother or sister so many things, and i bet she does but i don't want it to mess up her little life - she's fab, and definitely gives us a reason to want another and also that if we didn't it wouldn't be the end of the world, even thhough it feels like it would be t the minute. i am starting to ramble now.... really need some european choclate and not the rubbish (by comparison) we get over here.

Lissie - just read your thread. That's so frustrating!!!

Lottie is right - you have to fight/appeal/kick and scream. It will be so unfair if it is down to your family history - that is only a part of your make-up, so can't totally count against you, surely?

Did you call yesterday?

thank you lottie, thread here i am really not happy about it. I understand, but i have worked so hard to keep my weight up, dont drink/smoke eat healthily etc, yet all thje stuff thats out of our control might scupper us.

lissie - so sorry to read of this. I'm sure you will but you must fight for this decision to be overturned, if it comes to it. What reasons are they giving?

oh heebee really must be something in the water, though with shreks in oz, i dont know how that would work!

had bad news about egg share, they dont think we are suitable. it is going to head of unit, so should know tomorrow.

Hi all

How is everyone?

Well I just joined Shrek and Lissie with an early af - though only 3 days early...

Rainbow - I'm so sorry I agree with Lissie - do what feels right for you..

Shrek - You would think it wouldn't be too much to ask for your cycles to stick to some kind of routine, to try to make an already painful process, slightly less painful..

Lissie - hope the paperwork gets cleared quickly (on the assumption the last round of clomid doesn't do anything).

I'm in the middle of the 2ww. Swing from feeling wildly optimistic, to not at all, which is just stupid as my m/c consultant told me that the steroids I take will mask any pg symptoms.. If this month doesn't work then my consultant's desperate quest for 2 viable follicles means i'm doubling the dose of the injections I take leading up to ov..

rainbows, that is really odd! re the ttc, you must do what feels best for you. can you get appt with clinic to go over options?

Is it a full moon or something! All these early periods, also I am currently working with another woman who is now also miscarrying. There must be something up somehow.

I am not sure whether to stop ttc this month. I am not sure how much good it is doing my body, to be pregnant on and off so much. But perhaps it is just the first day of bleeding causing me to question it.

shreks, how odd, my period was 6d early this month too!

i'm out for this month (explains the mood last night) and probably the next couple as i am not going to clomid this next month - for various reasons. i was clutching at the implantation bleed straw since i have come on 5 days early (i thought clomid lengthened you lp...) but it is only a straw and doesn't hold the weight. Plus the cramp, clouds that little fantasy i have so had enough of this f/ttc game.

oh rainbow i am sorry
cross-posts last night and i didn't check to see if someone had posted since it had been a while that stinks

when not would sorry

Oh Rainbow I really hope you get some where would you see the drs.

Rainbow, Im so, so sorry when do you see cons?

shreks, I do understand. its very frustrating and painful. have you had bloods to identify ov?

well, period came 6d early this month. I definately ov'd so christ knows whats happened. have arranged appt with fertility clinic to see implication counsellor re IVF, filled in all the forms (although mother made things as difficult as possible when I called up for family history) and will hopefully start asap provided this last unofficial round of clomid fails (as im sure it will) am oving from tubeless side. i know it and they know it. all that scaremongering about "too many follies, eggs can travel". maybe they can. but that doesnt mean they will!

Oh Rainbow . That really sucks.

Shrek .

hi all
i hope i sleep better tonight
i feel very gloomy in the f/ttc stakes tonight. stop reading now if you don't want to read self pity personified - and i have nothing to be pitiful about really. i have a beautiful dd, a lovely husband, my health and good friends....it's just.....
i really felt positive and like the clomid might have worked but i am going to be devastated when my period arrives which i know it inevitably will
i don't think i can deal with clomid next month if it hasn't worked this month but at the minute i feel like i can't bear not to be pregnant any longer
i just want to forget about this whole ttc lark. every month i feel like i say - that's it, if i'm not pg then it's over but then the next month comes along and i think well in for a penny and try to strategically time sex. it's totally crap the whole thing <sulking>

Forth miscarriage in 9 months.

anyone about??
i am far too tired to be mumsnetting, but i can't sleep
i never normally have a problem sleeping except when pregnant. however much as i hope, i think it is not that but i am getting pretty sick of it as i haven't slept properly since friday
does clomid turn you into an insomniac??
that said i am well past clomid days and into 2ww now so could it still even be that??

ooo heebee, thats great news!!

picknmix life really knows how to kick you in the teeth sometimes..

lissie just read your other thread about egg sharing - that sounds so good. I know what you mean as well (from the other thread) - if I get to the end of the year and they start me on IVF, I will feel so much relief that its out of my hands..

Well, the injections did do their stuff - I had a big fat (his words) 22mm egg on the right side (which was good news as that had failed to produce anything for a while) and a 13mm egg, so too small to be of use. Next cycle he's doubled the dose of the injections to get 2 follicles. I take the injection to make me ov today and try over the weekend...

picknmix, i agree with shreks, you are entitled to feel upset. ftc does odd things to you.

heebee, how did the scan go?

spoke to clinic about egg sharing and they were v positive, if needs be should have first cycle in a couple of months. just as well, dh joins RAF in jan!!

oh picnmix <hairstrokes>
you're not bitter and twisted, you're hurting and there is a difference

Oh fuck fuck fuck, don't mind me whilst I slump down in the corner....

My sister has just told me she's pregnant. First month of trying. Oh yes. And I can't even console myself that maybe she's lying and they've been trying ages cos she's really open with me about it all and been having tests as she was concerned, ironically because it was taking ME so long to get pregnant.

So I am now officially that bitter and twisted old woman sat in the [childless] corner.

I managed to do such a good impression of being unphased and happy that she went into the whole 'how she found out' and 'how she told her husband' stories. AND THEN she said those shitty words 'if its twins you can have one' hahafuckingha.

And breath.

Hi all

Rainbow - just adding myself to the list of quiet support

Lissie - I have everything (except legs) crossed for you this month. I would call the clinic if I were you - I don't think you can start registering interest etc. too soon. Obviously hope that it doesn't come to that though..

Shrek - I hadn't twigged about your posting times!

Well I've got 1 more injection to go (tomorrow) then my scan on Thursday to see how many eggs I have failed to produce this month!

hello all, rainbows shan't say a word, but am quietly supportive!

am on CD16 and ovulating today i think. v nervous. this is our last official month of clomid havent been too enraged this month, but am gathering info about egg sharing so when we see cons next month we are fully informed. should i call the clinic when if my period comes this month to register intrest in egg sharing ivf?

Hello bucky - nice to meet you, I have seen your name here before, but I was away from our wonderful hut for a while and only came back a little while ago.

Shrek - ah the time difference thing!!!! strange I had never noticed your odd posting hours before!

I am feeling yuk and going to go for a rest in a minute while I get a chance.

How are all the clomid-ites here?

hi bucky <waves>
and everyone else <waves to all>
hi rainbow we live on the other side of the world at the minute so it's actually 1pm when it's 4am UK time - it's 8am now. and i won't ask about what you are not telling about.

I'm a bit late with this, but I'm loving the new thread name! PMSL...smack round the head with TCOYF...LOl Haha ha....I know a few people I would LOVE to do that too.

[Bucky waves to Shreks and Lissie]

Hey PicknMix I came looking for our bench LOL....

I'm just generally peed off with ttc like 24/7 so don't have anything incredibly productive to add, but just wanted to say hi.

Bucky xx

nope I am still here, got some news but not telling, as don't want to consciously admit to it yet, as we all know what will probrably happen.

But shrek - what the heck are you doing here at 4am?!?!?!?

have i killed the thread?? <watches the tumbleweeds rolling through>

heebeejeebee hope all that works and doesn't exhaust you too much

Well AF turned up, so this month I'm on double tamoxifen and injections to encourage ovulation on days 3, 5, 7 and 9. it exhausts me just thinking about it..

hello all. <hairstroke for shreks> if its any consolation, the c.lomid hasnt been too bad this month tbh.

heebee, am on 50mg, mainly for the lining.

oh this is awful!
i am so tired i feel sick. i just want to sleeeeeeeeeeeeeep. it's 4pm here and dd is particularly hard to entertain this pm...or maybe i feel particularly unimaginative.
it is ages since i felt this rough, and i am dreading takinng the clomid tonight because i imagine it will make me feel even worse tomorrow

how's everyone today?
i am sooooo tired; my period is soooooo heavy. i mean, it usually is quite heavy anyway but this is taking the biscuit. it is ages since it has been this heavy - i know clomid changes things a bit, but this is awful. i am just hoping that it will actually stop, and within a reasonable time frame too. i am sure it will stop but at the minute it is just gushing - sorry way too much information
oh i could sleep for a week, but dd wants me to do something crafty with her, so i'd better go.

<Kicks door open, stubs toe, rubs foot> my turn to be driven demented by the 2WW. Spent the past 3 nights getting up to go to the loo in the middle of the night and generally convinced myself I was pregnant. Today, however, my friends, is another day and I'm convinced AF is on the way. Obviously, as I am going to visit my bf this weekend AF will wait until my return before starting, thus making sure that I don't even wallow in alcohol just in case..

PLUS dropped my next month's presecription off at Boots today and as its a private prescription with injections to liven up my overies it has apparently come in at £189!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lissie did you decide what dose of clomid to take?

Shreks - early just stinks

pnm - i bought a mooncup about 4 months ago. I have to say I love it (well, perhaps love is a little strong...)

oh pnm! english chocolate - yes please! the aussie stuff is vile by comparison. thanks for the fat free assistance too rainbow i have done well today til we had guests and watched a film and had popcorn and other crap.
cheers for the drink too lissie and everyone for the support.

i had heavy painful periods anyway, but yes i do think that this one is esp heavy - it never occurred to me it might be the clomid, which i will be starting again tomorrow or friday

<stomps in with alcoholic assortment, chocolates and duvet> shreks, im sorry. bummer. if its any consolation, my 1st month my period was 6d late, but this month it was bang on time. although i agree with picknmix (hello, btw, dont think we've "met")my periods have been much heavier and more painful on the clomid.

and did i mention the mood swings? im positively evil. rage is waking me up at night!

Really sorry to hear that Shreks Its shit isn't it? Early as well, just to really kick you in the overies whilst you're down. My AF had the 'decency' to wait until I had the hpt out the packet and ready to piss on - so a wasted hpt that wasn't even used!!

Have you found your period is much heavier than usual cos of the clomid? I did - far more pain as well. Thought I'd well and truely tempt fate and join the realms of Mnetters and buy a <<whispers>> mooncup the other day. Not sure why I did it to be honest as the thought revolts me - think it was to try and negate the clomid induced hope instilled in me.

I have some proper english chocolate for you here (never could get on with the Aussie stuff - apologies if you're a fan) if you fancy it?

Oh shreks it is so tough. <passes diet lemonade and piece of fruit, along with the painkillers, just trying to help with the few pounds that Rainbow can't seem to shift!> I am sure that lissie will be here soon with the alcohol and chocolate that you really need! Wish there was some way to take the heartache away.

bah! she arrived... EARLY!... as predicted. i should have known that as soon as i tested she would be on her way so now i am grumpy and in pain. on the plus side (if there is one) i have another few weeks to ditch a few pounds, which can only help, right?
thanks for the hairstrokes <sobs>

oh shreks, i went through the exact same thing first cycle. for the first time in a year i actually wanted to test early, i think its because the month seemed so long, i had my tracker scan on CD10, then my period was 6d late... <hairstrokes>

thanks <takes chocolate>
have not been tempted to early test for months but took the notion today - stupid, stupid, stupid - not surprised though bfn
<straw-clutching> may be too early as not really late yet, but think ov about 14 days ago, but who knows. also, mid afternoon and drinking water like a fish because it is so hot, therefore it must be too dilute...obviously...

<sneaks in with chocolate for shreks>
<refrains from any "i told you so's" re side effects>

i know that reads a little contradictory but i am feeling really grumpy and contrary plus i have sore boobs and no i am not symptom spotting.
sorry for ranting....you know how it is
<slams door on way out>

so i am pretty sure that i am not pregnant but still have to wait til af show up to begin again. this whole waiting for one part of the cycle to the next is sooooo depressing isn't it? actually i feel a bit permenstrual already as i am having weird aching/pains in lower abdo, goin and undercarriage, a sure sign she's on her way - EARLY!

then take 50mg if you still stim on that.
you could still ring the secretary though and that will at least confirm what to do and put your mind at rest.

because i over-stimmed on the 100mg.

if cons said 100mg, why did nurse say 50mg? depending on the answer to that question, i would take 100mg. usually what the consultant says goes and if you're not sure get him/her to confirm, even if it's just a call to the secretary as s/he will be able to ask cons nd let you know on the spot.

ooh yum!

bit of a quandary. no scans this month, and nurse has told me to take 50mg, BUT this is our last cycle. should i take 100mg (as advised my cons) or 50mg. my tubeless side is more active than good side, this has been confirmed by last two cycles... wwyd?

oh, lissie*
*fishie

nowt to say here either
<passes large squares of very rich chocolate fudge brownie around>

i know. <hairstroke>

period is very bad. very heavy, been feeling v dizzy. feel dreadful.

i haven't had any tests for years. can't face it.

oh fishie, thats crap. have you had FSH levels checked recently?

oh fuck that lissie. i hope you are going wild tonight.

in the mere 6m since i hit 40 my cycle has gone very wonky so i think it is all out of the window for me.

its ok (well, its not...) last round of clomid.

lissie

period came today. while i was peeing on my hpt.

fuck it.

"I have 'taught' myself to not be upset when af arrives - I have affected an air of indifference about it all, even though inside it stabs me in the heart. However, the clomid brought it all to the fore and I can't believe how upset I was yesterday."

picknmix i could have written that myself regards side effects - i have been very fortunate really; i had a bad bout of hot flushes after the third tablet and then i was light headed and woozy after that til i had done with the course and that was it really. kind of makes me wonder if it's had any effect at all in the department it's meant to.

Have you sufferened many side effects from the clomid Shrek? I've had awful hot flushes - just suddenly start pouring sweat! Also mood swings, laughing that will swiftly turn into tears without warning. As you say Rainbow, its mental as well as physical - I'm a bit of a drama queen so I thought I was just being a bit of a hyperchondriac but, actually, I genuinely am suffering all these side effects. It actually is shite.

I genuinely hate it - I hate this never ending cycle of ttc. I've seen it written on this thread before, but how do you turn off those ttc habits? I can't for sure.

I have 'taught' myself to not be upset when af arrives - I have affected an air of indifference about it all, even though inside it stabs me in the heart. However, the clomid brought it all to the fore and I can't believe how upset I was yesterday.

I truely hope it has worked for you this time Shrek.

I am starting to rate clomid in the same category as the evil pee-sticks. Evil stuff just designed to put folks into a state that is cruel mental torture, trouble is that with clomid is a physical as well as mental torture. So glad I am not having to take the evil stuff myself.

hey, picknmix sorry to see you here, but you are more than welcome. i know what you mean about clomid starting reigniting the hope. i am in 2ww following first round of clomid. i don't think it has been successful this time anyway, but i know that i will be ina state when the witch puts in an appearance.

Would you mind if I joined you for a bit? I'd just like to be with like minded people for a while.

We've been ttc our first child for 3 years now. Started my first couse of Clomid in June - then af arrived yesterday. Have managed, for the past 6 months or so, to be fairly unaffected when af arrives but clomid had obviously seeded that stupid TTC hope back in my brain which meant when the witch turned up this month, I was inconsolable. To the extent my DH had to come home from work. Although I'm pretty sure most of that was residue hormones from the clomid talking.

Lissie I read your other thread and I hope your family are coping at such an awful time. I was just speechless reading it. Totally speechless.

haha i know lissie
yep i'll have a drink with you rainbow - don't think we'll have conceived anyway, just think it is very unlikely - self preservation maybe.

shreks, possible to ov twice on clomid you know!!

rainbows, that a bit pants. ill drink with you!

Shrek - forget about those whitecoated men and have another drink! You might be in the 2ww madness but I need a drinking partner so that I can reach oblivion away from delayed ov freaking me. I don't want an annov cycle now, I have been having great time with dh having real sex rather than procrative timing and now would be perfect timing for ov to have happened, but nope ovulation is avoiding me. So bottoms up, lets drink.

i have a sore boob...and crampy type pains about a week after i think ovulation might have occurred <shreks looks suspiciously round the hut for the men in white coats, as she recognises the madness of the 2ww>

thank you. O is still in hospital, dont know full facts yet but dad said the situation is very bad. im still so angry. i hope they both go to jail and i hope they both rot there. how dare they? children are a gift, not a right. they are monsters. worse than animals. a tigress will die protecting her cubs, this evil bitch sat by and allowed her bf (and supplier) beat her children into hospital.

oh lissie how awful
where are you at now with your thoughts?
(((hugs'n'prayers)))

Oh god Lissie thats awful those poor children. I just hope they get someone as lovely as you to look after them now.

Lissie - so for you seeing your cousins children treated so badly, while you have all the love there is to give, it hurts.

Lissie i saw this yesterday, but didn't have time to post. I'm just speechless. It's so awful.

I also thought that everything you said in your op was so true - especially the added strain ttc/ftc puts on a relationship...

your thoughts although ive a clue.

that's awful lissie and whilst i try to remember that children sometimes need a telling in public and we only see what we see etc - there is no excuse for slapping and calling a scrote n- that is just awful and show no respect - what kind of self esteem is that kid going to have? poor bairn

i know. i want to scream "be grateful you idiot" and tbh i nearly did (clomid is turning me into Norman Bates - rage woke me up on sat night)

Ah yes... the bum propped up on pillows.. trying to watch tv between my legs

I think it was an HCG trigger - it was called Ovitrine and due to the short notice I had to trek to the Lister to get it!

Sooo annoying re your eggs. You put all this effort in to something, the least you think your body would do would be to co-operate..

That's horrible, what you saw.. It makes you want to shake them and ask them if they realise how lucky they are... (which they clearly don't)..

god, sex rather than an attempt at procreation... i think i remember it... and being able to go to sleep after instead of sticking your bum in the air... <wistful> i ov'd on CD17 last month but period was 6d late. v annoying, but clomid increases progesterone too, and i need the help on that side.

heebee, was it the HCG trigger you had? my left side is dominant too, unfortunately its tubeless but they wont discount any eggs from there because they can travel (yeah right) and this month 2 eggs from bad side released on CD14 while lovely big follie on good side was still there. am v annoyed.

shreks, my cons said i would be fertile from CD10-CD17 on clomid so sounds like you gave it a good shot, sperm can live up to 4d (the girlies anyway) so not lost at all!

at work today saw a pg woman with 2yo dd. woman slapped dd and called her a scrote. its so unfair i want to cry.

Thank you!

I wouldn't rule out hope then - as I understand it they can last 72 hours so your day 13 attempt may have done the job!

I know what you mean about precision sex. As I'm going private at the moment (the NHS think I'm doing fine, but the private guy I was seeing about the m/cs thought I should double the dose, which I can't do on the NHS) gave me an injection which released the egg 24 hours later. It was nice to have that uncertainty taken away for once.. Didn't relieve the pressure though, which is more of the problem in our house! Do you remember having sex just for the fun of it?

<hairstroke heebee> i am sorry

yeah we've been doing the deed every other day since day9 'cept we missed day15
he's here on holiday with me so we're still doing it, but have no idea when/if i actually ov'd anyway. i was regular in medical terms before this carry on ie within a weeks difference each month, but that's no help when you are having precision sex, and it doesn't really help me work out when i will ovulte while on clomid either, if it doesn't alter/fix the day, iyswim.

<storms in, takes absinthe and vodka and rustles up a cocktail>

It is official - the world is pregnant. And last month was my due date.

I had my scan which showed that despite me taking double the dose of tamoxifen, I still only had 1 egg (a good size, but only 1 nonetheless). Also, it was on the left side which is the 2nd month in a row that the right side hasn't produced anything. So now I have to self-inject myself with something on days 3, 5, 7 and 9 to try and galvanise it into action. Also, my uterine lining was only 7mm so am on progesterone supplements. So the steroids are making me irritable and the progesterone is supposed to (as a side effect) get rid of pmt. My hormones have no idea whether they are coming or going.

Shrek - the clomid (or the tamoxifen which I'm on now) didn't change the day I ov'd - it stayed pretty much the same as it has always been (obviously no help to you!). Did you manage to do the deed before you went on holiday?

no don't have another scan as on holiday now. initially, when i was trying to be oh so cool about it all, i thought i would be fine with that, now i find i am trying to work every last detail out. i just wondered when you typically ovulte in relation to when you take the clomid (i know there is no hard and fast rule).

i've been ok on the clomid. i felt woozy while taking it and a bit headachey. one night i had hot flushes too, although that may have genuinely been the temperature, but other than that i have got off lightly. i took it at night, which i think definitely helped. i think i would have felt more woozy / light headed /headachey / dizzy throughout the day, had i taken it in the morning.

shreks, do you have another scan? how are you finding the clomid? i have been particularly psychotic this month! ikwym though about it being impossible to have the "right" sex. we dont have sex after ov anymore, just in case and so only really have a window of 10d, if one of us is ill, we're screwed!

rainbow <hairstroke> its totally understandable to comfort eat.

we're all on top form then - jolly good <swigs wahtever booze is available>

we're on holiday - perfect for making the beast with two backs you would think, but we are so knackered that we arrived friday and just flopped friday night and last night (it's a looooong time since we had a break). the really irritating thing is, that i had ??ovulation pain after my egg scan which seemed to show an abundance of follicles, we had been doing it loads and we're all set for friday night but fell asleep at about 9pm - we fell asleep waiting for dd to go to sleep in a strange bed in the room next door; then, just as we were going to bed last night i noticed some <tmi > jelly like cm then some more stretchy stuff - not seen that in a long while either, but nothing happened as we just crashed, then there was a tiny bit this morning now it's gone again. i know it's the last day it is seen rather than the greatest amount, that you are most fertile, but how long have you got from noticing it, coz it's a long time since the days of the luxury of afternoon shagging - approximately 4 years actually.

i am so annoyed - i think my fertile window, if i even have one, which let's face it is wishful thinking in the first place given i am now on clomid, must be so narrow that i barely have time to notice never mind do anything about it. and no matter how hard we try to have a planned shag fest something nearly always screws it up in the middle and we miss a couple of days over the really important time. we could do it every day of the month but it is almost a certainty that when we need to be at it something prevents it

poor dd keeps telling me all the things she is going to teach a litttle brother or sister if she had one i hear ya lissie - it's crappy crappy crap crap

and yes rainbow the whole world is pregnant, even my 'infertile' friends who i was trusting not to get pregnant, and that realy bites because i am actually genuinely pleased for them - it just really hurts, not that they are, but that i am not

think i will stop ranting....

It is true everyone else is pg, even my dh commented the other day saying it, and he being male would never normally notice pregnant women and babies.

I am eating like a pig and scoffing all the wrong foods and making myself fat. I know subconsciously it is because I want a fat pg belly. But it is not helping my chances of getting pg by going from overweight to nearly obese!

Lissie, sorry you are having such a lousy time of it at the moment. You are sounding very depressed about it all. Wish there was some way of helping other than just the virtual absinthe!

nomore - it is so hard to not get hopes up sometimes, our bodies like to fool us and taunt us.

All I can do here is listen while we drink.

<comes in with absinthe> i take it everyone else is feeling shitty. why is everyone pg? seriously? everywhere i look i see bumps and newborns. in the meantime i have ds asking why he cant have a baby brother or sister. i feel like screaming because your mummy has a crappy body and fucks up being pg everytime.

im so tired.

Thanks just wanted somewhere to hide out and drink myself stupid drown my sorrows. Feeling cross with myself that I let myself get my hopes up this month.

<takes bottle of vodka from nomore>

Sorry I did not see this message earlier, can we help with listening?

<grumps in with vodka bottles in hand>
just want to be gloomy for a bit so glad the hut is still going (or is glad pushing it? relieved anyway)
<hands round other bottle of vodka>

that's what i meant rainbow - we're all too gloomy/apathetic to be here

Shreks - wish we could all think that it is quiet here because we are all in a positive frame of mind with ooddles of hope, but I suspect the opposite is true for all of us. Apathy is the feeling I have at the moment, haven't got the energy for anything else.

quiet round here at the minute.
how is everyone, or is the silence speaking volumes?

rainbows, thanks. the prob is that the last thing i want to do is have sex and working tonight, but CD13 scan tomorrow so must be done. hope that af arrives properly

shreks, i had my 1st tracking scan on CD10.

Rainbow - that so hard I hope af either ends or gets heavier soon.. My 2nd m/c happened exactly 1 year to the day that my dad died. I still don't understand why life is so cruel sometimes..

shrek my scans (both on clomid and tamoxifen) have been been between days 11-13 of my cycle (so 6-8 days after taking the tablets). I tend to go for day 13 as I ov anywhere between days 14 and 18

rainbow

good news lissie. how long after your last clomid was the scan? i am still trying to nail down which is the best day to have the scan but don't want to tell my doc i went for the uk schedule (i.e. start clomid earlier) rather than his day 5 start schedule

Lissie - great to hear you got good news, hope that you are shagging well despite the mood swings.

Heebee - Hope that the increase in drugs does the job for you.

I think I have progressed onto light flow . Not sure but it is now red and a bit more. It seems mentally I was so prepared for a heavy af with painful cramps that this half-hearted af is not giving me the cathartic emotional end to the m/c that I was expecting. Oh well just more mental torture from my own body. But it is also happening exactly two years to the day to my first confirmed miscarriage.

thats good news! i was advised last month to abstain, did we? did we buggery!

Lissie - that's great news! Go for it

My private consultant who I see about the recurrent m/c spoken to my NHS consultant yesterday about me doubling my dose of tamoxifen and they both agree I should do it.

BUT I can't do it on the NHS (increased risk of multiple births and something about monitoring) so I have tightened my belt and agreed to do it privately. At least i won't be advised not to try if there are too many follicles!!!

hi all, rainbows, sounds like a good idea to get the tests done. as heebee says try the asprin, just in case. tbh i wouldn't have sex until you get a bfn. if only to be on the safe side.

good news here, had 2 mature follicles (1 on each side) and 2 immature ones on tubeless side. womb lining was 9mm (was only 6mm last month) so all systems go. dh got a start date for RAF - 11/02/10 woo hoo!!

Hi rainbow. Very annoying that af is taking her time coming...

Good news about the tests - I had them in Jan for peace of mind, more than anything else and came back borderline for the killer cells test, so have been taking steroids from ov to af, though I think omega 3 is also supposed to help. I also take a junior asprin a day, as my consultant says while it isn't proven that it does anything, won't do me any harm.

Tricky one re the shag. DH is quite squeamish so it has never been something I've thought about. On the basis the spotting is AF I would have thought it would be ok?

Argggg, I am still just spotting, af has not properly arrived yet. But the good news is I did loose some blood from my arm today , I had blood tests for recurrent miscarriage, so although we are fully expecting the tests to come back normal, decided that should get checked just in case. Did mean that dh had to get blood test too!!!! Dh had been away for the weekend and just got back, I want a shag for shags sake, but not sure whether I should, having had all the advise about avoiding sex while bleeding during m/c due to risk of infection etc, I would be safe wouldn't I?!! oh the things I discuss here!!!!

Thanks ladies

Rainbow - I remember after my m/cs it was one of the few times I was pleased that my period had arrived and I was another stage along the process...

Lissie - how ironic re your skin! Got everything crossed for you (though not legs )

heebee, im sorry about your period, thats really pants

rainbow, must be such a relief!

well, hormones arent too bad today (but is only 8am) my skin however is dreadful. really, really awful. i feel so ugly and vile that sex is the last thing on my mind. however, dh is on schedule for a marathon week!

Heebee sorry to hear af got you today.

It looks like I have started af as well with spotting, but for me it is a relief that the chcg is finally leaving my system and I might finally be coming to the end of this m/c.

Lissie - how are the hormone rages going?

So AF got me today.. on to the next month. Just waiting to hear if I can double the tamoxifen or not. If not, roll on the end of the year and ivf..

lol heebee, i was a bit sceptical about the mood swings and didnt think id been that bad, dh however vehemently disagrees!

for the bfns and dh's bf's dw.. I'm starting to get twitchy that another of my friends is going to announce she is pregnant which would be their second child in the time I have ftc one...

shrek - my consultant asked me how I was getting on on the tamoxifen. I muttered something about mood swings and he leant forward and said "is DH still alive". I said he was, though only just. He leant back in his chair and said "well, that's alright then"

feel a bit better this morning, but still not in a good mood. the rant i wrote was in the middle of the night our time - i was up sulking. i was reading the aibu board (they're always good for a laugh) and was chuckling away at the one titiled 'i am, i am, i must confess...' about a woman who woke her dh up with her activity whilst still asleep - it was hilarious - i did think that maybe i should have got back into bed and kicked hima nd pretended i was asleep

i start clomid next saturday or sunday, lissie

Shrek - oh no, men are not good for hormones, at least the clomid will give you a definite reason to throttle him!

lissie - horrible dh's bf's dw....

I meanwhile am feeling a little too good, had good weekend and able to forget all the horrible stuff for a few hours was just what I needed.

heebee, ah, will see how i respond to the clomid. thanks!

shreks, <hairstroke> when do you start the clomid? i was horrendous last month. woke dh up one night to rant at him for going to the pub 4 years ago

dh's bf's dw is pg again. am truly fucked off.

aaaaarrrrgggghhh! men! he is making me so cross at the minute! i haven't even started the clomid and i could quite happily give him a kick - hardly good conditions for the beast with two backs. i am going to list all the things he probably isn't but right now i feel like he is: selfish, stubborn, arrogant, insensitive @2!$hole just about covers it in all honesty, i really can't decide if he is all/some of the above or i am just being emotional and oversensitive i am so i am crying !

Sorry to hear about the bfns..

Clomid thinned my uterine lining, and I think it has a tendancy to do this over time as well, so it just wasn't going to work out. Tamoxifen apparently does the same as clomid, but thickens your lining..

I take it exactly the same as clomid - days 2-5 then the scan on around day 11, though I've not had to have the scans for the past 3 months as I was responding well - the one the private consultant gave me was the first one since Jan..

lissie, i am starting on 50

hi all, happy birthday cedar, im sorry xxx

heebee, fingers crossed for you, whats the difference between clomid and tamoxifen?

rainbows, hope you are ok

darrell, sorry sweet.

shreks, i take mine CD2 on, and have tracking scan on CD10. think thats pretty much the norm tbh. what dosage are you on?

im out too. period started this morning. feel a bit foolish now. still, on with the clomid i suppose. wanted a march baby anyway

cedar- that all sounds lovely
well, bowing out for this month, cd32 , bfn, and I'm sure it is negative
lissie , good luck monday

cedar sorry that is rough

can i ask some clomid advice? when were you all advised to start it? we are not in the uk at the moment, and i've been told day 5 by my doctor but i thought you were advised it was earlier than that in the uk. he is not a fertility specialist and i wondered what you guys had been advised. i thought it was between day 2 and day 5 but preferably day 2? also, when do you ahve the egg scan in relation to the clomid?

hope the bit about delayed bfp's is right for you lissie

Cedar - so sorry to hear that. I'm glad you're being spoilt on your birthday - I've got a wii fit and they're great! Have a lovely meal tonight...

Lissie - everything crossed for you on Monday

Darrell - keep us posted re testing!

I went to see my m/c guy. i mentioned to him I was about to ov so he gave me a scan (I'm on tamoxifen via the NHS as clomid thinned my uterine lining. V annoying as I got pregnant first time on clomid, but tamoxifen doesn't seem to be doing quite as good a job). It showed I only had one egg, so he is going to speak to my NHS consultant about doubling the dose of tamoxifen. I mentioned to him my nhs consultant was concerned about triplets, which he dismissed with a wave of his hand - my kind of guy!

And so begins the 2ww...

Hi everyone thanks for thinking of me. All started last night quite bad cramps last night and lots of clots but its all eased off know. Spent the whole morning in our pjs playing my new wee fit that dh got me. Got very spoilt wee fit and a new digital radio I am addicted to the radio alway got it on. Dd got some nice knickers and some smellys all chosen by herself. Off out for a nice meal tonight then having a party in a couple of weeks with mates etc.
Hope the test goes alright on monday Lissie will have everything crossed at a course all day monday but will try and get online inthe evening.
Good luck Darrel with testing when will you test again?

cedar - so sorry to hear that you had bad news. I hope that you get extra tlc and that you manage to enjoy some of your birthday today, am thinking of you.

Lissie - I really hope that you have good result on monday.

Darrell - hope you get a bfp soon too.

Wow, I am full of emotion here, thinking of you all.

and your gp sounds lovely

I don't know
I don't think I want to which is odd

ok, gp has arranged a wee test for me 1st thing monday and whatever the result i need a blood test on monday too. she was lovely and said she was hoping desperately that it was a bfp.

i can hardly dare to hope!

darrell, thank you when will you test?

cedar
at least you know which way things are going
lissie , well, there's always hope and it didn't sound insensitive, just normal
I am Cd 31 and no period yet, but my cycle can go up to CD35 once a year or so
Neg test CD29
Am now thinking it isn't over until my period comes, but don't want to test as having a little hope is better than none at all
cedar, thinking of you tomorrow

shit, hope that wasnt insensitive..

oh cedar, honey im so sorry. <hairstroke> what a crap way to spend your birthday.

thank you, have spoken to FU and they said that i need a blood test. apparently clomid can delay bfp's (varying progesterone etc) but if CD10 scan showed 5 mature eggs then i should have had something by now. because of my history i need a test asap. so apparently it really aint over til the red witch sings. just waiting for gp to call me back.

Just back from my scan sac has got a bit smaller. I am off to hospital this after noon for medical management of a mc. Dr was great my local hospital wont let you go home once you have taken the tablet so she has arranged for me to go to the next town where they only make you wait an hour then can go home. Just want to get it over with now. It my 30th bday tomorrow so hopefully the bleeding wont be to bad.
Lissie it must be so frustrating hope you know either way soon.

thanks, its so frustrating. am going to call gp on mon if nothing.

oh hun, I found that the worst when i was doing all of this, hang in there

btw, still no period.

hi, gothic, that sounds lovely!

sorry to hijack Lissie do you fancy a night out its been ages I've set up meet up thread and am getting lonely on it?

lol thandeka, thank you. must say, your name is familliar... how odd!

cedar, thank you. how are you feeling?

heebee, might try the omega 3 myself. we were sort of offered the NK cells test in LWH, but it was too pricy

lissie

Lissie for the bfn

I didn't have to push for the test actually as the guy who developed it (he runs the miscarriage clinic on Harley St) has his NHS practice in Surrey. I don't see him there (hence me seeing him privately) but he works closely with my consultant and she offered it to me. He did say to me that omega 3 can help, so I've been taking the zita west omega 3 tablets as well as the steroids. I can't believe it is such a hard test to get, though..

Cedar - good news about the scan

nope that can't be it then I lived in scotland then.
Ah well you must just have one of those faces. and a very pretty face it is too.

ah, ive worked (and got drunk) in both towns from 2000-2003

Yeah all the time- used to get the X64 there regularly. Will add you now! Ooops!

And boo hiss for CB digital BFN.

hi all.

heebee, i remember you. its good that yu have a plan. did you have to push for the NK cells test? m y cons won't consider it.

cedar, glad you are getting another scan. your clinic sounds pretty good!

thandeka, fraid not, have you ever been to shrewsbury/ironbridge? and why havent you added me?

tested, bfn with a CB. so now just waiting for period to start

Hi all, Just spoke to the clinic again. They are going to scan me again before refering me to the epu. Scan booked for 2pm fri. Its an ivf clinic as this was a result of a frozen transfer they have been so great so different from my ectopic pg. Pleased I am having another scan sure it is a mc but at least I wont have that doubt after 3 scans.
Rainbow hope you feeling better today. Thanks for the link it amazing how many dr write off so many pg.
Lissie any news? hope no news is good news.

Hi all

Sorry - I ducked in very briefly a while back, but have been meaning to post for a bit.

Just to say - Cedar - definitly have the scan. With my second m/c (in December) I had an ERPC and my levels hadn't started to fall - they were just rising very slowly and I still had all my symptoms (including m/s on the morning of the op).

Rainbow - I had the tests after the send m/c and I came out borderline for the killer cells test (I happen to be in Surrey where the guy from the miscarriage clinic on Harley st is). The thing is I think that those levels can fluctuate so it might be normal one month, but not the next. I ended up seeing him privately on Harley St and am taking steroids post-ov.

Lissie - have been following your journey over the past week with everything crossed for you

Just to say as well I saw my consultant who decided i needed a PLAN. My PLAN is to wait until October, have the test where they flush your tubes with dye and then she will refer me for ivf. I felt really weird when she said that - depressed that we are at that stage, but I guess positive that she has a plan for me..

Lissielou in the spirit of internet stalking solidarity I looked you up on Facebook and my you look really really familiar- I see you are living in the same part of the world as I am from and I wonder if you ever went to that groovy dive heaven that was known as Chicos above the bus station ooop Hanley! I swear I have seen you somewhere before...... [Grin]

love your friendly neighbourhood weirdo

p.s fingers crossed on the testing front.

totally agree with rainbow!

still no period. may just have yto bite the bullet and get another test.

cedar - you really need to go back for another scan, just in case they have got things wrong see this thread, I don't want to raise false hope, but your levels should have been going down by now or they will see more on the scan. Last scan the sac had got bigger for you, with me the sac had decreased, my levels are going down. I would not advocate rushing for d&c having read the above thread, but I do think you have waited in limbo long enough. You are too far along to get useful blood tests now, as between 8 and 10 weeks hcg levels start decreasing in normal pregnancies anyway. Hope you get answers soon.

Darrell - sorry to hear about the negative test, life sucks sometimes.

I am not ready to start giving up yet either. It is so hard sometimes just keeping going.

good on you for your uni
when are you going to test again?

tbh i cant give up. while there is still hope we will keep trying. i feel that to give up would be to trivialise what weve been through. however, i am at uni.

A while back lissie, I remember you saying you were going to stop TTCing, and move and train in a new role
How did that go?
Where you able to put TTCing out of your mind, or did it sneakily draw you back in?
[what am I going to do, i'm going crazy]

DR, i know. dh said something v simillar the other day. we spend 2w disheartened because the last month didnt work, then 2w terrified. all the while waiting.

CD28 here and just gave in and tested-negative
Crap
Crap
slinks off
my life whizzes past me in 2 w cycles, 2 weeks trying, then 2 weeks waiting
I don't know where the last year has gone

oh cedar, im so sorry. how utterly crap.

rainbows, things can change quite a bit, anything from having a weird period to an op can alter your bodys functions quite significantly.

still no period. too scared now. odd isnt it, i have no prob testing early, but when im late i chicken out!

Oh cedar what a shit and prolonged nightmare you are going through. How agonising. I don't understand why you aren't getting your HCG levels tested regulalry by doctor like rainbowdays is?

Hope you can get through this.

Well it looks like I will have to have a d&c just did another pg test with conception indicator. Still showing 3+ weeks. My bloody body I think if I carry on waiting it could take ages. First shift back at work today my manager knows what has been happening but no one else does so I will have lots of question this afternoon feel like telling them all to fuck off really. If I ahve to have a d&c will have even more explaining to do!

Just spoke to my clinic about stil not bleeding not able to talk to dr today. I think they are going to refer me back to the epu. Not sure what to do. I dont feel pg at all but have had no cramps or back ache for over a week. My body dosent seem to know what to do any more. Its my bday at the weekend thought this would have all sorted its self out by know.

Lissie - it is funny, I thought I would be pressured into a d&c and was mentally preparing for it. I did not like the thought of it, so actually, I am in some ways relieved that I have not been asked. Although I am in limbo still, I had a good cry last night, and it was cathartic and so now I feel more able to wait it out. But part of me just wants to get back to ttc again too. I stopped bleeding last week, so I thought I could start ttc again, but the risk of infection and the retained products mentioned now make me think that we can't just resume normal activities. That will be tough. Perhaps a d&c would have been an easier option.
Is it possible to develop a clotting disorder or progesterone defect or anything else? I thought that most of the things they would look for would be things that you are born with? Am I way off beam here? Although I suppose something like a thyroid problem can develop later in life. Would they be testing for that too? Sorry my thoughts are just poring out here.

Hi Rainbowdays sorry everything is taking so long to settle down. Re tests I asked my consultant about having some she said she would do them but thought we were very unlikely to find any thing as we already have a dd. They usually test for clotting and chromosonal problems I think. So as we both have children it would unlikely to be these problems so my dr said. She said it was just probably bad luck not what you want to hear! I know its so heartbraking I really would love for someone to give me a reason. When I had my ectopic pg I knew why because my tubes are buggered. I am not sure whether to have any tests done or not either as its unlikely to show anything. But I think Maybe I will just to rule things out. To give you some hope my mum had 3 mc and then went on to have 2 healthy pg.
Lissie good luck with your test today.
Hi Anniemac.

its a shit decision to make and i do think your age is probably a factor that you need to consider. if i were you i would probably take the blood tests, it may well be something simple like a clotting disorder or pregesterone defect (well, not simple, but you know what i mean) im a bit shocked that they are just going to wait for you to pass any retained products. did they not offer a d&c? it may take a couple of months for everything to pass at this rate and its not fair on you to keep you in this hellish limbo.

Can I ask your advice? - I have just had phone call from hospital, they are not going to monitor my hcg levels going down now, they will just wait til next period and I have to do hpt then to check it is negative. But I was also offered blood tests for me and dh due to this being third consecutive m/c. I am not sure if I want to do this or not, what do you all think, is it worth it at our age (both in our 40's)? Or just keep hoping and praying an ttc?
Doc seems to think that I obviously have retained material, but she is happy for me to wait and if I get any signs of infection to go get antibiotis. She said any retained material will come away with next af. Sounds logical and sensible, but I am anxious that it will take ages for my hcg levels to go down, so it will take ages for af to arrive. I take it that therefore I can't ttc til then? My mind is racing with questions - can you offer me any help with these?

oh rainbows, is there nowt they can do?

im ok thanks, still no period so getting another test today!

My blood test showed hcg level down to 660 only. As you probrably know, it should halve in 48hours, it has not even halved in a week. This is going to take some time to resolve.

anniemac - love the idea of your dh banning you from diagnosises, absolutely right no more gloominess for you right!

Lissie - how you feeling?

Wow this thread is really busy. Bummed for your shitty news Shreks but don't give up or listen to hard to their diagnosis. The month I conceived I had a fsh reading of 20! Basically totally off the scale - I wouldn't be able to get IVF with a level like that. DH banned me from ever going to the doctor again - he says they are good at fixing stuff but bad at making diagnosises and always give you the gloomy outlook!

Aah yes to "enjoying" MS. I am not sure I would use the word "enjoy" exactly (although I do get the fact of being very pleased that I am able to feel so bad iyswim) but definitely would use the word "reassuring" and do not want to complain!

Sorry to hear of all the shit stories right now...

Nope I have to disagree with you all, I don't want morning sickness (thought I would spell it out for Thandeka!!!!) With two of my m/c's I have felt very sick, especially just before it started, so for me all it means is that my hormones are changing, but I can't tell if they are going up or down, so even now I have painfully sore boobs, and still getting constant nausea, at least at the moment I know the nausea is due to the levels dropping, rather than giving me false hope.

Shrek - good to hear your "thing" has gone!!! , not so happy to have to be going on clomid, hope you don't get too many horrible side effects from it.

Darrell - Can I wish morning sickness on you soon?

I am still sitting waiting for my blood test results, but a good mn friend of mine is in having her baby right now, so I hope for a good phone call soon, perhaps that will help me ignore the horrible one. Just to clarify the good news will be the safe arrival of her little girl.

Well it was Shrek in particular saying about how she loved her MS stories about all the places she threw up in. Was starting to think there was some kind of an internet trend to go round the high street retailer and throw up and then write up the story on the net! I was sooo confused. It really did take about three read throughs before I worked it out.

pmsl thandeka.

I'm a lurker to this thread and have to confess reading about Lissie crying at the M&S advert and then reading about how you all loved MS and how it was reassuring and I was getting really confused until I realised M&S and MS are two different things.

me too shreks, my proudest moments were throwing up in the highstreet (right outside greggs, it was the smell) and in the kitchen at work!

i know... i love ms. it's the one time you can be truly martyrish and totally get away with it. i love my ms stories too about all the places i threw up in - that is very sad - i only tell them to people who are interested and not all at once honest!! i had a truly crap pregnancy too but absolutely loved being pregnant <rueful>

lol, the last time i had ms i remember sitting with my head in the bowl, dh rubbing my back and whimpering "thank god, thank god, i still feel like shite, thank god" in between retches.

I know, everytime it rose to a peak I would think, 'the hormones are strong, the baby is growing'
Then if it settled down a bit, you get a bit panicky
I have to stop myself gatecrashing the ms threads to say, 'just be glad you're getting it, it means your levels are nice and high'

you know, this sounds odd but i love ms. its reassuring.

I reckon i ovulated CD 14-15 so period due maybe tomorrow, probably more likely wed/Thursday
I keep reading magazines at the supermarket with that Cheryl Cole blethering on about perhaps starting a family with Ashley and how she's worried she will become the size of a house

Wish that was all I had to worry about
And morning sickness, I just want to feel that crap again please please please

shreks, its totally understandable, i feel that way too. i have a points system that i use for pg women by which i measure just how happy i am for them. good news about the thing going, but bad about the clomid. however a soon as period comes i will be on second round of it. its not too bad, just made me v emotional.

m&s ads were the ones with twiggy. im sitting with dh sobbing "bbbb-hut they were just a puh-henny buh-buh-buhzaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrr"

rainbow, hoping that your levels have dropped <hairstroke>

darrell, is your period due tomorrow then?

I want to know which M+S adverts too
I'm normally pretty weepy but so far M+S doesn't make me weep , apart from perhaps the cupcake ones
and thanks to lulumama for clearing up the TCOYF acronym, I thought it would eventually come to me
Well, a lovely morning all round

I am CD27, and too afraid to test, as if it is negative, then all my hopes will be dashed as this is getting to be the last few cycles of trying.
No symptoms of anything
Will continue in hope which I am not meant to be feeling as it is most likely to not happen as usual

hi all,

not meaning to fuel the madness lissie, but could those be pgy symptoms. i was all for telling dh, what was the point of us trying to start a family if he was going to be such a sh*t (and he definitely isn't nor was at the time, i just remember being foul-tempered), that night i found out i was pg with dd and then of course he was the best dh in the world

well, have had a lovely internal scan today. the good news: the 'thing' on my ovary or whatever it was has gone, if it was there in the first place said the doc, he said it might have just been the view (that sounds pleasant given he had a us probe up me)
everything seems to be in order.
the bad news: i am running out of time apparently - i'm only 29!! much later and i may stop ovulating regularly - well that seems to have already happened anyway
so i am finishing the pill next week and starting clomid <long gloomy silence as i have very little else to say - and i do feel pretty gloomy>

<starting to go into rant mode> why is it that everyone is pregnant? those that are first time out of the box, so to speak and those who are 'infertile'? present company excepted, because i am thrilled for you guys, but it is making me more sad that the people i thought i could rely on not to get pregnant are pregnant, some completely au naturelle and some with a little help such as clomid < that should give me hope, right?> what a cow i am! i am thrilled for them really, i just wanted to be pregnant first <stamps foot and pouts> i know it sounds ridiculous and that they would probably feel the same if i was up the duff first. i feel really selfish which doesn't make it any easier anyway does it? actually, at this point in time, i don't feel anything, just kinda numb wish i could stop thinking about the beautiful babies i am meant to be holding

Hi all, I have been for my latest blood test, results sometime this afternoon hopefully. So will now take bets on what level it will be today!!!

Lissie - I had heard that clomid can be really cruel and extend your lp, hope it does not keep you in limbo much longer. Of course what I really hope is that you are preggers and this one (or more!) is a keeper for you. But can understand preparing yourself the the alternative.

Lulumama - never thought I would see you in the hut - hi!!!

thanks, now it makes perfect sense !!

Taking Charge Of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler..

It's big heavy book

sorry to intrude, but what is TCOYF?

Lol at cying at M&S adds ! which ones exactly ?

worzel, tested yesterday and bfn, but with FR which has always been a bit funny for me. will wait a few more days then try with a CB. the clomid has been ok(ish) mood swings have been bad. woke dh up to rant about him going to the pub 4y ago and cried at m&s ads 2x had hot flushes from CD4-CD7 and headache CD2-CD5 but got 5 lovely eggs from it, so embraced the crap part.

Maybe one of them has

Did you test again after the initial bfn ?

How have you felt with the clomid in general ? i have heard it can make you feel a bit shit.

yes, yesterday. i have definately ovulated and it was around CD14 (i thought 13, but continued getting pangs up to CD17) i had lots of eggs (joke is i was advised not to try this month because there were too many) and i treally thought that one of them had stuck!

When is it due, yesterday way it ?

not sure. don't feel like my period is coming tbh. i normally feel kind of full right before it starts but none of that. however, your cycle can change on clomid.

I'm good thanks

Are you feeling like the witch is on her way or still feeling pg ?

im ok thanks. no period yet, so have to wait and see. if nothing tomorrow will get another HPT and try again. how are you?

How are you this morning Lissie ?

oh rainbow, its totally understandable that you feel all over the place. were you offered a d&c? you are not being selfish and ikwym about being unable to give up x

still no period. pissed off, just want the next month to start so i dont feel so crap. i was so sure that this was the month.

Lissie - did the old witch make her unwelcome appearance then.

I am all over the place emotionally, mentally and physically. I still feel sooo pregnant and it is not fair. I just want to be able to move on mentally and physically and I can't. Emotionally I am very depressed, I am dragging myself out of bed and functioning, but that is about it. I know I should not be feeling like this, I have 3 wonderful children, and love them to bits, and to many it must seem like pure greed that I feel that I won't be complete without the 4th. But I am sorry it is just the way I feel and after 3 miscarriages in the last year I am running out of time. Ok I am only 41 but I know from the miscarriages that my eggs are now shot to pieces. So all I can do is pull myself together, and try again with the vague hope that there might just be a good egg amongst the bad.

i have 2m worth at 100mg or another 4m worth of 50mg. follow up appointment at clinic in sept and will discuss options then. they only like to prescribe 6m before making IVF sounds, in which instance we are screwed. cant get funding because we have ds and cant afford private.

Oh, bad luck, chicken.

How many months' worth of Clomid will they prescribe?

hello all, duchesse - good to see you, 31w!!! thats getting close.

rainbow, cedar silly question, but how are you doing?

well, think period is on its way. am v bummed out. really thought this might be it. just waiting now...

Hey, ladies. Have just pointed a friend who is struggling in the direction of this thread. Hopefully you should see her soon.

Welcome to new Huttees. Hope your stay is not too long. This is the place to be when you need it though.

Sorry about the miscarriage, Rainbow. They really suck.

Lissie, annie, how goes it?

Shrek- am pg, 31 weeks. Complete effing miracle. Still can't get my head round it. Won't believe it till it's here and healthy.

Bummed for everyone here

Shit shit shit.

Having not had any sort of scan yet I am in blissful ignorance of anything that may be wrong. Think maybe thats preferable...

Lissie - surely there is still some hope. And if not then there is more clomid next month?

So sorry you going through all this to rainbow. I really hope you can get back to some sort of normality soon.
No more scan etc the clinic said they can refer me for a d&c if I want, but would rather not to many bad memory at the hospital I would have to have it at. Look after your self.

DarrellRivers and all you wonderful people - thank you. It really helps knowing someone understands.

Cedar - my bleeding stopped a week ago, when I had the scan that showed the sac still there. So I can really empathise how you feel right now too. When are you having another scan/blood tests?

oh Lissie i am sorry.
I few familar faces here. Hi Rainbow sorry your having a crappy time. Its rubbish isnt it I havent even had any bleeding yet just waiting and waiting and it doing my head. Really know what you mean about getting back to normal. Just wish the last few months hadnt happened at all. To top it all have just noticed my neighbour is pg again and her ds is only just 1.

Oh Lissie (()) xx

Rainbows, that slow decrease must be so dreadful
Feeling low because of what's happened
Feeling tired and sick due to bhcg
And just wanting to get back to normal
Support from me

rainbows, im so sorry. it must be tortuous.

oh lissie .

Well I am getting resigned for the inevitable now. HCG from 1024 to 842 over 2 days. It is slowly reducing, not at normal rate, just to annoy me further. I have to have another blood test on monday. In the meantime I have major headache and feel sick, and very low generally. So glad I have somewhere to come to here.

lol, i was so sure this month, suppose the first response devil tricked me again.

Lissie
although you never know,
it is a strange strange business this TTC (although strange when it happens to others, never to me )

tested today, bfn. oh well, back to the drawing board i suppose (although period not due til mon)

hows everyone doing today?

I am lissies friend on FB too - I'm Stephanie C.

lol red.

rainbow, good title!

i definately feel pg, all the signs are there, but the waiting drives me insane. and i hate the knowledge that even if when i get a proper bfp i can't really relax.

Lissie - thank you, hoping is all I can do right now. I have an extra piece of hope for you too.

I just went to my bookshelf to find a trashy novel to distract myself, and found a book I had forgotten was there but has an excellent title that fits just where I am at presently it is called "Pain is inevitable but misery is optional: so, Stick a Geranium in your hat and Be Happy". So that is where I am at!!!

I'm one of Lissie's friends on FB and my initials are CVT - feel free to add me.

<LilRedWG scurries off after crashing a thread that she's not entitled to be on. .

worzel, im from the west midlands. am also on the mumsnet fb page.

rainbow, theres nothing wrong with hoping. sometimes its all you can do!

worzel - I found her quite quickly, she looks just like I imagined she would. There is only one of her on fb but perhaps you were thinking of a different mountain family....?????

Sorry I am in a positive frame of mind at the moment. That although logically I know it is only a matter of time before the docs can say I told you so, until then, I am pg and will allow myself to dream of the impossible and live like things will be ok. when the inevitable happens then I will deal with the emotional fallout, but not til then.

Oddly i cant find you

I didn't put Lissie Yeti either !

lol anyone can add me!! its nice to be wanted

Annie sorry to hear you have a UTI too, they are horrible.

Are you nearly 7 weeks now ?

can i add you to my facebook ?

when you said "mountin dwelling family" my brain scremed YETIS.

Anniemac - sorry to hear you have a uti to deal with now too. remember to drink loads of cranberry juice..... (yukky though it is!)

Lissie - I have cheekily asked to be a friend on fb!!!! I know the message was not for me, but since I was on there anyway I did!

done.

I have been asked twice today when I will be having children. Think I might just stop going out and speaking to people.

Lissie

Hello Scorpio and Worzel - not seen you for ages.

thanks annie, uti's are v common in early pg, any joy with an early scan? may reassure you.

ps, are you on facebook? have asked before i think... if you are please add me. im lissie and surname is well known mountain dwelling family with a son called john boy!

Rainbow = that is so shite!

Lissie - got everything quietly crossed for you...!

I am still feeling like crap just saw a nurse and she confirmed I have a UTI - but won't get results back until MOnday which will confirm how to treat it. SHe said this is probably why I feel so terrible.

UTIs can be bad early pg right - great - another thing to stress over!!!

Lissie - , great to hear you got a BF-WTF!!!! look forward to hearing more soon.

Thanks Lissie, I may just come and hang out every now and again.

wow scorpio, thats fab.

PL, sounds sensible. is your gp sympathetic? ps, you are always welcome in the hut.

I'm good thanks Lissie, relieved my exams are over but getting a bit down about this whole conception business. I know we've only been trying for six months but I have a horrible feeling it's just not going to happen. Got my period on Saturday and I was so upset, could have done with camping out in the hut with you guys for a while.

Anyhow, DH is going to the docs tomorrow about a lump on his leg and I'm going to try to persuade him to ask the doc for tests at the same time - because he had a tortion on his testicle when he was younger there is a possibility that it damaged something down there and if that's the case I think I'd rather know now than later on IYSWIM.

Sorry everyone else for butting in again.

It's the hard part isnt it.

congrats scorpio

Well....LMP EDD is 22/12, MW says 24/12. Whenever near Xmas it is then

worzel waiting game now

thats fab!! although pants that you didnt get it last fri.

im ok, clomid side affects have calmed down now, just waiting to see if anythings happened.

whats your EDD?

Oooooo ExCiTiNg !

<crosses fingers>