TTC Super Ovulation part 3

(978 Posts)
Arianrhod Mon 08-Oct-12 08:30:07

Hey ladies -

There are a few of us who are ttc after mc's, however there will be ladies out there who are also ttc for the first time or second or third without success. If anyone is on, considering or had success on a super ovulation programme then do join us. How long did it take ? Did you try IUI with it.. ? Did you have PCOS?

Kicking this off and hoping some of you will join....

part 1 here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1385998-TTC-Super-Ovulation

Part 2 here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1475108-TTC-Super-Ovulation-part-2?pg=1

brownstag Fri 23-Nov-12 11:27:01

Thanks BellyD and HavingKittens. I will talk to Mr S again. I now have a vague date for my laparascopy, early January, so I will have that, and then talk to Mr S again. I am hoping to get another FSH test at my doctor's on Monday. What I don't understand is why I've responsed reasonably well to letrozole before, 1 follie on 5mg and 4 on 7.5mg. Shouldn't I be a 'poor responder' with such rubbish AMH?

lemonsherbet Fri 23-Nov-12 11:32:11

hi brown been having a google look. Apparently AMH is very temperature sensitive so needs to be transported/analysed in the right way. In view of the problems they had with your sample could this be the cause of your result?

AMH levels tend to be lower in people with endo but also fluctate eg in response to surgery. Your FSH is good and some places put more stock in this than the AMH. You are responding well to SO which I would take as a good sign.

lemonsherbet Fri 23-Nov-12 11:34:33

also recommend a chat with Mr S, or could you telephone Louise and see what she says

brownstag Fri 23-Nov-12 11:57:39

Thanks Lemon, I did wonder about the sample, but I thought I was clutching at straws. I sent it on a Thursday and as far as I know it wasn't analysed until the following Wednesday. I don't know how long it took in transit; knowing Royal Mail lately it could have taken several days first class.
Thanks so much everyone; it really helps to have you here when I'm feeling so low.

LJ71 Fri 23-Nov-12 20:17:39

Hi everyone

Just a quick post to say I've not been on here for ages as we've been mega stressed and busy at home, with us both starting new jobs, moving house tomorrow and my dh has been really poorly. All of which have led to us not dtd at the right time - so new news at all.

Big hugs BellyD - we went through our mc's together in July, so sorry you are going through it again.

In some ways, I'm focussing on moving and sorting out my financial situation, and its been quite nice not to worry about conceiving. It may well be time for us to stop trying now anyway. If we do, we'll just try one more - 7 mcs and the cost make that a definite.

Brown - I'll pm you xxxxx

duggs1976 Sun 25-Nov-12 08:19:36

Just posted on Pred thread - 6th SO cycle over and no luck. No natural pregnancy since starting dr s programme in July 2011 sad going it alone in 2013 - NK cells were normal in may according to dr g so don't think dr s has solution for me! Will still pop in here ...wishing you the very best of luck ladies x

lemonsherbet Sun 25-Nov-12 13:06:43

duggs sorry that 6th SO cycle did not work. I hope you do not leave this thread. It will not be the same without you even if you are not continuing with Mr S, we do share alot of other info on here.

Belly How is the backache going? any news on the repeat scan?

Holl hope everything is going OK feel free to post

brown ari hope you are having a good weekend.

Waves to anyone have missed

holldoll Sun 25-Nov-12 18:09:23

Duggs - good luck in 2013

Lemon - thanks for asking. Ok at mo, just waiting and trying not to wish time away. Scan not till 7/12/12 so 2 weeks away still. interestingly I am not mentalling anywhere near as much I have previously so I am feeling in a much better place this time.
Going back to lurking again!

hope everyone has had a good weekend

Mel3062 Mon 26-Nov-12 06:01:51

Well looks like the so cycle no 6 hasn't worked for me either got bfn so expect af thurs. it's so heartbreaking sad now debating when to take month off steroids. Don't think ill make it dec as it makes sense to have scan when I go for tnf alpha test what do you think ladies? Do you have to totally stop trying for a month? X

brownstag Mon 26-Nov-12 10:29:30

Sorry to hear of your BFN, Mel. And good luck with going au naturel Duggs and everyone else with the treatment.
I'm also probably not going to be on here much now. I've moved from being stunned by my AMH result to realising that it does explain everything, so for me, the mystery is solved. I'm still going to retest, still going to have my laparoscopy and also see Mr S one last time in January, but really I think that is it now. I realise now that it was less a wonder that I'm not currently conceiving than that I ever had a child at all. It always has made me feel a bit guilty that I was trying for no. 2 when so many of you are still trying for no. 1.
My last little 'research gift' to any of you who are still trying to work out what's wrong is that of homocysteine.
Google it: it might be relevant, who knows? High levels of it are implicated in infertility, miscarriage and all manner of pregnancy problems. The good thing about it is that it's theoretically easily fixable, with specific vitamins. I know a lot of you are veggie and vegetarians/vegans have higher levels of homocysteine. I read a whole book on it by Patrick Holford (for anyone who's read Bad Science by Ben Goldacre, alarm bells may start ringing at the mention of his name, but it is a real phenomenon, honestly!)

Arianrhod Mon 26-Nov-12 12:46:19

Morning ladies ... So sorry to hear that your 6th cycles haven't worked, duggs and mel. It's a bugger to keep on going when even ovulation support medication doesn't seem to make a difference.

brown Interesting about high homocysteine being an issue - being one of those who is MTHFR homozygous I am already taking l-methylfolate which brings down high homocysteine levels. Hope your lap gives you some hope, I do understand where you're coming from.

/waves to everyone, hope you're all doing well.

BellyD Mon 26-Nov-12 19:32:00

Duggs and Mel so sorry that the SO has not done the trick for you. Let's hope going au naturel does the trick for you in 2013 Duggs it has got to be better for your body. Will keep everything crossed for you. Brownstag I hope that having a retest of your AMH and your lap provide positive news and that Mr S has words of wisdom when you see him in Jan. You should not feel the slightest bit guilty about wanting to complete your family when some of us are trying to have our first, you are just at a different but equally important stage of this difficult journey.

Thanks for your kind words LJ - I very much hope that next time everything works out for you.

Went for another scan today. The fetus has shrunk but the pregnancy sac has shown no sign of collapsing so they advised to sit it out for another two weeks to see if anything happens. If not they will probably recommend an ERPC. I am as happy as I can be with that advice. I would love to have it all resolved well before Christmas so that we can just enjoy ourselves and start to plan what we will try in 2013.

Waves to all, lurkers included x

brownstag Tue 27-Nov-12 14:25:53

I really hope things get a move on for you, Belly.
Well, I just had my repeat FSH test results from my GP's. 9.7. It was taken on day 1, not sure if that makes a difference, but my last one was too, in January, when it was 7.8. Obviously things are going downhill rapidly, but still not too horrendous? They considered it 'normal, no action', anyway. Does anyone else have non-correlating FSH and AMH results?

Arianrhod Tue 27-Nov-12 14:42:23

brown Bear in mind that FSH levels can (and do) fluctuate to a degree from month to month. As far as I recall 9.7 is still a good level for FSH, mine is much worse ... !

Breezyweezy Tue 27-Nov-12 18:22:09

Delurking to say, Brown, my FSH and AMH results are non-correlating too. Had them done on day 1 back in June and results were very low/untetectable AMH 0.63 with FSH 5.6. Total shock to me (something that I am still finding hard to believe almost 6 months later). Mr S was taken aback too as I am 34 so not the result he, or I, expected. He suggested SO, which so far has been a complete waste of time and money, but I am just starting month 4 on a higher dose of letrozole after a crap month 3 (1 follicle after 2 the previous 2 months on 5mg), so I will try to remain open-minded and positive that it could happen - yeah right! I find the whole SO thing such a chore as it is a nightmare to get an appointment for a scan on the day you need to go.
Also as an aside, I went to a few initial consults for IVF and one was with Dr Gorgy. He told me that there is a connection between low AMH and NKC activity but I haven't found much information about this on Dr Google. Interesting since I have v high NKCs. He wanted me to have futher NKC testing done, but he overwhelmed me with his list of tests and possible treatments and I'm embarrassed to say I haven't been back to see him since. He didn't see the ridiculously low AMH as a stumbling block and said they would use the highest stimms possible to get the most eggs. However, another clinic said they would probably recommend mild or natural cycle IVF in the hope of getting a few eggs. Two completely different opinions!

Duggs and Mel sorry to hear SO hasn't worked for you. Let's hope 2013 and going it alone is the way forward and works for you both.

Belly sorry to hear about your mc and I hope things get moving for you sooner rather than later. I certainly admire your patience in waiting for things to happen naturally and avoiding an unnecessary ERPC. Patience is not one of my strong points!

Kittens fantastic news on a great scan. I'm so happy for you!

Waves to all.

brownstag Wed 28-Nov-12 08:13:08

Thanks Breezy, that's very interesting and I can imagine what a shock your AMH must be at your age. From what I read, though, you're still in a much better position than someone older with the same low AMH, because your eggs are younger, though I'm sure that doesn't feel like much of a consolation.
I need to ask someone, like Mr S, whether this low AMH means an early menopause is on the cards, or whether it's possible to hang about in this rubbish state for some time, particularly when FSH is okay. Do you know what age your mother went through menopause? Daughters are meant to follow suit, and that just doesn't fit in my case because my mother was 55. I've been thinking about it and the ovaries are only one part of the whole system, after all, with the hypothalamus being another, and maybe with our FSH being okay, the hypothalamus 'thinks' everything's okay. It may be different if there is a specific disease state or condition that causes the low AMH in the ovaries, like NKC activitiy or endometriosis. I'm clutching at straws here! My problem is that I often come up with these theories and then can't remember if I've read them or made them up.
Would you take DHEA? Not that I've been a great advert for it! But even if I give up ttc, I'm going to carry on taking it, prob 25mg, because I feel so much better on it. Maybe it's worth trying it for a few months and then restesting the AMH (via a cheap online test).

Breezyweezy Wed 28-Nov-12 10:19:49

Brown to be honest, I find the whole low AMH thing almost unbelievable. I wish Mr S had never done the test. When he gave me the results I didn't even know I had had it tested so it was a double shock!!

From everything I have read, low AMH would seem to indicate early menopause, but there doesn't seem to be anything out there about low AMH and perfect FSH. My periods have gone from 28 days to 26 in the past 18 months since my last mc but they are as regular as clockwork and since I chart, I know I ovulate just about every month. I asked my mum about when she went through the menopause and she said at about 45-46, so not that young. I find it ironic as I have 2 sisters, one older, one younger, who have always had problems with their periods. Both late starters, one was told she would never have kids as she didn't ovulate and had very irregular periods. She now has 3 kids. The other had hypothalamic amenorrhea (complete lack of periods) due to excessive exercise - she'd run a half marathon every day the lunatic!! She was told she'd done irreparable harm to her ovaries, but 3 months after stopping running, putting on 2 stone and a course of clomid she got pg and now has a gorgeous 8 month old girl. I on the other hand have always had regular periods and seemed to get pg quite quickly (within 3-6 months) and now nothing in the past 12 months.

The only thing the consultants that I saw for IVF agreed on was taking DHEA 75mg a day. I have some sitting in the cupboard but have not taken them yet. I had my testosterone and DHEA measured and they are fine, but I made the mistake of asking Louise one day and she said that she and Mr S do not recommend taking it at all. I just don't know. I am taking so many different drugs and supplements that I actually wonder whether that isn't the problem. My previous 3 pg and subsequent mc I was only taking a preconception vitamin and that was it!

Sorry for the ridiculously long post!

Arianrhod Wed 28-Nov-12 10:38:27

breezy Just chiming in here, I asked Mr S about DHEA once and he said he had tried some women on it previously and never found it made any difference at all, so he doesn't recommend it. If you have your DHEA and testosterone regularly checked, then there cannot be any harm in taking it, I would have said? I took it for 5 months but unmonitored, which is why I stopped taking it in the end, as I was very nervous of it unbalancing my estrogen/testosterone balance. I have also wondered if taking too many supplements etc might be a problem, but then I know exactly what everything I take does, and I cannot see what I take could have an adverse effect.

I do wonder how you can have low AMH but perfect FSH, seems a bit of a mystery to me (and I am talking from the ignorance of never having had the fright of having my AMH tested. I can't believe it would be a good level if I did.). Remember you can be perimenopausal for 10 years sometimes, so even if that is the case it still doesn't mean you're not fertile - it may just mean you have less eggs than someone younger. Doesn't mean the eggs you do have are all bad, just that there are less of them. My mother tells me she started menopause proper around age 55; I'm only 44, so theoretically I shouldn't be heading for that just yet.

Seems all a bit hit and miss to me, which is rubbish sad

brownstag Wed 28-Nov-12 10:59:22

Just a quick post in reply about DHEA, though I will reply more fully later, but since I have been taking DHEA my oestrogen levels have gone up from 101 in January (pre-DHEA) to 160 this month. Is this good or bad for fertility?
Just had my hair cut too and far from having less hair, my hairdresser told me my hair was thicker, and said 'I don't know what you're doing, but carry on doing it'! DHEA and Co-enzyme Q10 are the two supplements that I'm personally sure I feel better taking. If you find you have side effects you could always reduce it. I have only benefits on 50mg, but bad acne on 75mg.

Arianrhod Wed 28-Nov-12 11:53:03

I don't know if this helps or hinders, but I just found this very interesting article about DHEA: http://www.fertileheart.com/576/

I was looking up another article on there on low AMH/high FSH, also very interesting. The website is by the author of 'Inconceivable', which possibly several of you may have read (I have it, I just haven't read it yet).

brownstag Wed 28-Nov-12 19:03:17

Thanks Ari, I have seen those Fertile Heart posts, but I've always got suspicious of them, that they're trying to sell me something, so not finished. They start by telling you their story and end by how doing something Fertile-Heart-related saved the day.
Breezy, a friend of mine also started puberty and her periods late (16), which was mortifying for her at the time, but she's the friend who's pregnant at nearly 43 with no trouble, so maybe starting late can be an advantage. Also, just before conceiving her second child, she'd had a day 3 test, and was told her testosterone was high, but it obviously did her no harm. Also, from what I've read, testosterone may used directly (instead of DHEA) in the future to help develop follicles, so I'm not particularly worried by testosterone being too high from taking DHEA.
Having said that, Mr S told me not to take DHEA too, because of the risk of bladder cancer. Something I haven't come across in the literature.

Mel3062 Thu 29-Nov-12 05:39:49

Well af arrived yesterday v painful so I've booked the tnf test for the 11th and having scan at same time. Do you have to go back for the results? When you have month off steroids does that mean you can't try?? X hope everyone's ok

brownstag Thu 29-Nov-12 16:14:29

Sorry, I don't know much about the scan, but I would have thought they would advise you not to try because without the steroids you're more likely to miscarry if you do conceive. But I would probably try anyway!

brownstag Thu 29-Nov-12 16:14:54

Sorry, not the scan, I meant the test.

Arianrhod Sun 02-Dec-12 10:20:50

Morning ladies .. Well, that's a big fat raspberry for my 6th SO cycle too, 12dpo and not even a hint of a hint of a line. Probably not going to do SO this next cycle due to costs of Christmas, DD's 6th birthday and her school fees all due within the next month .. I can't do £335 of SO on top of it all. Looks like this third Christmas won't be our chance of a baby either.

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