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Infant feeding

talk is cheap

66 replies

kiskidee · 30/01/2008 09:22

'comment' in the guardian on bf

OP posts:
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PuppyDogTails · 30/01/2008 09:26
Hmm
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berolina · 30/01/2008 09:29


FFS. How spectacularly is it possible to miss the point?
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berolina · 30/01/2008 09:31


God, it's depressing, isn't it?
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InTheDollshouse · 30/01/2008 09:38

Look at comment @ 11:45. It claims that the writer of the article has worked on an Infant and Dietetic Foods Association initiative on behalf of the UK infant formula manufacturers SMA Nutrition, Nutricia (Cow & Gate,
Milupa) and Farley/Heinz. Rather interesting, if that's true. What could possibly be his motivation in arguing against an advertising ban?

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aurorec · 30/01/2008 09:59

'and it risks turning the clock back to those dark days when women were considered little more than Milk Dispensers, human udders, whose role was to impart their special mother's milk to the next generation.'

This is typical, isn't it. How is it a 'risk' to give your child nutrition designed specifically and individually for him/her?

IMO BF (which I didn't 100% enjoy btw) is empowering, there is something so special knowing that I was making milk for my child. I was lucky that I didn't have to work and was thus able to fully concentrate on BF for a long time (it is time-consuming, hats off to all those of you who expressed whilst working, I don't think I could have done that).

I know some women can't, but it's articles like these, with demeaning references to 'udders' and 'dark ages', which will make some women not even try, and potentially miss out on so much.

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hunkermunker · 30/01/2008 10:03

I've posted a comment - are they moderated?

It's here in case it doesn't make the site:

I'm struggling to word this in a way that might make the author of this post pause momentarily and consider that he might not have thought this through. I'll give it a go!

Brendan, I am in regular contact with hundreds of women who feel great sadness about not being able to breastfeed, for whatever reason. Often, they are let down by ill-informed health professionals who pay lip service to the Breast Is Best message and dole out formula if supporting these women to breastfeed looks like it might take a while.

The important distinction to make here is that it is INTERNAL sadness. Most women want to breastfeed when they are pregnant - more than 80%. 78% do indeed start to breastfeed, but 90% of women who stop breastfeeding in the first six weeks do not want to stop. Poor support is cited as the major reason for them stopping.

Why is support poor? Well, the health professionals whose job it is are bombarded for adverts for formula - infant formula, since it can still be advertised in health journals. That's part of it. Follow-on formula (a product created solely to get around the advertising ban - a product that often constipates babies due to the unnecessarily high levels of iron it contains) can be advertised across wider media.

You compare formula to alcohol and cigarettes - and yes, of course these are different products. But they're not subject to advertising bans for quite the same reasons. Infant formula is often the sole nutrition for babies in for the first six months of their life (and it goes some way to making up the diet of 92% of babies throughout their babyhood) - so isn't it only right that we should place restrictions on advertising? Why would you want profit margins, shareholders and advertising executives having a say in how women nourish their babies? Prescription medicines are also subject to advertising restrictions - you don't mention that.

If you want to create a supportive environment for women to feed their babies however best fits with their lifestyle, you don't write inflammatory, poorly researched pieces like this.

There are plenty of people out there who just get on with supporting women to do what they want to do - which, over 80% of the time is breastfeed. Yes, there are some gobby, insensitive idiots who don't understand the issues and say crashingly unpleasant things about women who are formula feeding, but it would be nice to think that you understand the difference between them and the people who are trying to make it better. From this article, it would seem you don't.

Also, it would be nice if you understood that those who are campaigning for formula advertising to be banned completely aren't trying to sweep the issue under the carpet. Those who want this to happen ALSO want there to be more factual information out there about the contents of formula, the safest way to make up bottles (especially from powder - the instructions on formula packs are incorrect and have the potential to make babies ill), the best way to feed, etc, etc. At the moment, there's a lot of misinformation out there about formula, some pictures of ducklings and building blocks on follow-on formula ads, formula helplines which give out incorrect advice and the "don't make women feel guilty" message - not enough, not for such a massively important issue as, as I said, the sole source of nutrition for babies in the first months of their life.

I'm fairly sure this won't make much difference to you - your motives for this article aren't clear - but have a quick scan of any parenting forum and you'll see the sort of very real grief women feel when breastfeeding goes wrong. Articles such as yours aren't helping future women avoid this sadness, which often lingers for decades (yes, really). Feel free to visit my blog and have a read around the subject though. I look forward to your comments:
www.howbreastfeedingworks.com

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constancereader · 30/01/2008 10:14

God, I could barely get through that article, it pissed me off so much.

I feel better after reading your reply to him Hunker.

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hunkermunker · 30/01/2008 10:26

CR, it's not to say I wouldn't love two minutes alone with him in a room, with a sharp pencil in my hand.



Do...you...understand...yet...how...important...this...is?

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StealthPolarBear · 30/01/2008 10:28

good reply hunker, although that last post sounds like a scene out of 24!

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Lyra75 · 30/01/2008 10:36

That's a fantastic reply Hunker. When trying to post a comment I dissolved into an incoherent rant with much expletives and little point, so I've not done so yet, but will try and take the lead from your eloquent and fair post.

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hunkermunker · 30/01/2008 10:38

If you like what I posted, recommend it, please - am sure he's more likely to read it that way

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WigWamBam · 30/01/2008 10:41
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TheOldestCat · 30/01/2008 10:45

Hunker, you're so gracious under fire! His post annoyed me so much (poorly thought out and badly written - cliche alert or what?) that I wanted to leave a nasty comment. But that must be my militant side rearing its ugly, lactivist head...

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hunkermunker · 30/01/2008 10:48

There is NO point being snippy with him. He's posted to get a rise out of "us" - I prefer to post kindly. I never forget that there will be women out there who are grieving over this and aren't helped by snide - on either side of the debate. A bit of kindness goes a long way to relieving that knot of parental angst, imo and ime.

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TheOldestCat · 30/01/2008 10:53

You're quite right, hunker - being cal, rational and kind gets the point across so much better. Am just feeling grumpy cause I have mastitis.

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hunkermunker · 30/01/2008 10:54

Oh, bugger, TOC

Are you:
Taking ibuprofen?
Massaging/combing your breast across the lump, towards the nipple?
Feeding your baby with their chin towards the lump?

Really hope you feel better very soon.

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VictorianSqualor · 30/01/2008 10:58

I posted a comment too, can you link to yours once it has been approved hunker so I can recc it.

(my comment)
Brendan, you wonderful, wonderful man.
Well done, you have noticed that women aren't breastfeeding as often as they previously were, and think that it is up to them to decide whther or not they do.
That's great, in fact it's more than great, it's very true.
Now, instead of whinging about advertising campaigns maybe you could help these women get the real facts about breast/bottle feeding?
See, there is a bit of a problem with having formula milk advertised, it means that when a new mother has to make an incredibly important decision on how to feed her baby she is given absolutely no information, bar advertising.
Personally I think that every women should be entitled to feed her baby as she chooses, but I worry more about the lack of information surrounding formula milk and the message it is giving rather than the advertising ban.
The way it comes across to me is that by not allowing advertising, we as a country are saying that it isn't fair to profit from a babies nutritional health, which is a good message in this society of capitalism and consumerism.
If only we could increase that message by saying "This is exactly what is in each of the formula milks on the market today, this is what each of these ingredients do to your child and their precious body and these are the benefits of each one in comparison to one another."
Unfortunately, there is not any information of that type so until then we have to make do with not passing on advertising slogans and promotions as a reason for buying formula milk rather than a well thought out researched alternative to breastmilk.
So maybe a person in your position could make others more aware of this and help in the campaign to give women the right and information required to make such an important decision, maybe then we wouldn;t need to ahve a ban on advertising to stop formula manufacturers taking advantage of new parents.
I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated.

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hunkermunker · 30/01/2008 11:00

Mine's here

Yours is just below and now says Recommendation received on my screen

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TheOldestCat · 30/01/2008 11:05

Hi hunker - thanks for advice re: mastitis (sorry to hijack thread). Am doing all of those except taking ibuprofen as am on antibiotics (not sure you can take both). I'm only feeding 14-month-old DD morning and evening (so twice a day) as I'm at work. On doc's advice will express from the affected breast at lunchtime.

cheers again.

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hunkermunker · 30/01/2008 11:05

Yep, you can take both. Hope it's better soon.

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TheOldestCat · 30/01/2008 11:08

Thanks! Once I'm feeling calmer, I'll post a thoughtful response to Mr O'Neill.

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VictorianSqualor · 30/01/2008 11:08

Ha, you can actually recc your own comment

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fletchaaarr · 30/01/2008 11:55

I have recc'ed both

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fletchaaarr · 30/01/2008 11:57

I can't post a comment. It would not be coherent

Too annoyed

Actually annoyed isn't the right way to put it

"I feel like cutting off my own right arm just so I can use it as a club to beat him around his stupid, patronising, self-serving head"

That covers it a bit better

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VictorianSqualor · 30/01/2008 12:04

Lol fletchaaar.

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