HELP pls - very close to giving up BF....

[blossom2]

i'm almost at the end and really close to breastfeeding. DD2 is now 7 weeks and although is generally happy during the day, and generally follows Tracey Togg's 3 hr routine.

However during the evenings, she is a nightmare. its been happening for the last 10 days now, where she wont do to sleep from 7 - 11pm. last night, she was up from 5.30pm and didn't sleep until 10.30pm. She didn't want to feed and was actually sick. she then woke at 3.00am and 5.30am (which is normal for her) but needless to say i'm exhausted. she's not crying and fairly calm. will fall asleep on me but as soon as we put her down, she's wide wake. it seems that she will only sleep when i'm in the bed.

I don't have any support from family or friends. DH works loads and i never know when he's going to be home. also have a 3.5yr old DD and its all rally really hard.

DD2 seems very attached to me, seems to be using me as a dummy and needs me to sleep. she's developing habits i don't want. we're currently using the swaddle, sit, shush & pat techniques suggested by baby whispher but they didn't work last night.

Please Please help, i don't know what to do and am really close to giving up breastfeeding so that DH can at least help at night and the early mornings... how do people get through this stage???

[SleepySuzy]

Aww, poor you, you need someone to help you. Where do you live?

[SherlockLGJ]

Haven't got a clue about BF


Bump anyway

[blossom2]

live in paris, have joined the english speaking mothers group but haven't met anyone that i can really talk to - everyone seems to have their own groups already. we're also going back to the UK in 2 months time (can't wait) but its so hard at the moment.

bottle fed DD1 so breastfeeding is all new to me.

[elsmommy]

Have you tried expressing milk so DH could give a bottle when she wakes in the night?

TBH it never worked with me though, dd used me as a dummy and I did all the night time stuff until she was way over 1 yr old

It is probably best to break the habit now rather than later. But if you want to stop BF its your decision and don't let anyone stop you.

[blossom2]

we were giving her 10pm feed from a bottle of EBM or formula, but recently she hasn't taken it because she's already so full from feeding off me, whilst using me as a dummy. sometimes, she sucks and as soon as there is milk she pulls away crying...

[elsmommy]

When I was trying to stop bf I tried to subsitute the breast for hugs and then distract her. But I think 7 weeks is much too young to try that.

Maybe if you didn't let her fall asleep on the breast and just handed her to your DH when she was starting to go you could somehow get out of the bedtime routine and just bf her once in the night.

[blossom2]

will only take a dummy when she's desparate but then spites it out and crys again. i really don't know what to do. i'm thinking about going back to bottlefeeding because its what i know...

[blossom2]

DH is NEVER home before 9.00pm.... by then she's been up since 5/6pm....

[yawningmonster]

could she be refluxy, classic signs can be wanting to nurse continuously but then pulling away in frustration. If you think this is the case you could try elevating her bassinet/cot at one end, keeping upright after feeds, winding several times during a feed, changing position when feeding, eg if she is fussing in cradle hold, try football hold,get a gp to check her out as sometimes medication is the only way of really helping reflux.

[blossom2]

i don't think she has reflux because she doesn't vomit after every feed, although she does have really bad wind. And she does cry when farting (even in sleep). i think this contributes to her not going to sleep because she does seem to wake herself up when she needs to fart...

[elsmommy]

If you want to bottle feed do it. Don't feel guilty

Or if you just want sleep just relax and take her to bed with you for a bit. If you don't wear a top she could just reach across and have some milk without really disturbing you

Probably crap advice but I did that for about 6 months

[blossom2]

she is in bed with us, which is something i'm not happy with. i never wanted this and i don't sleep well with children in the bed. also DH smokes which i know is really dangerous....

[Merlot]

Hmm - dont know whether there are any breastfeeding counsellors around? I know a few trusty advisors left over all this Milupa stuff - what I do remember is that the HV said that all babies suddenly have this growth spurt around the 8 week mark when they need more milk and are therefore unsettled in the evening (when your milk is at its lowest) and they seem not to be satisfied by what you are giving them.

Do what suits you btw. I fed my 2 ds's until they were 16 months and a year (respectively). It is tough in the early days, but I found that it just got progressively easier and by the time they were about 6 months when everyone else was saying...`are you still feeding that baby!'...it was just SO easy and convenient that there was no way I was going to stop.

If you really want to keep bf - I am sure you will ride this out, but if you have had enough, then that's fine too.

[beansprout]

You poor thing, it does sound hard. From your first post though, it seems you are just as concerned with her sleeping patterns as the feeding? My ds has never needed much sleep and the patterns you are describing sound very familar to me. I gave myself a really hard time as I thought he would fit into a Baby Whisperer type pattern, because the book said so, but he really didn't. He has a pattern now but at 7weeks many babies are only just beginning to discover that there is a difference between night and day.

From here I think you sound like you are doing really well. Your dd2 has a different idea of when she would sleep but surely her being awake in the evening has to better than all night? Could your dh help you out a bit more in the circumstances?

[alux]

sweetie, you are having all the same anxieties i had at 7wks except I don't have a toddler - and dh worked in scotland all week so home alone. I remember once sitting on the stairway at 4 am sobbing for 15 mins with dd screaming upstairs as I knew not what to do next.

forget the routine for a while. I was trying that at 7 wks too. sleep whenever you can. take baby to bed with you to sleep, feed. - you can't spoil them at 7 weeks - I now know. In fact, if necessary, all 3 of you go to bed together. It may seem a treat for dd1. I remember my dd being so wierd at 7 wks too. I put it down to working out of that new born daze and being scared of all the sensory overload they are currently experiencing. Try some gripe water given with a medicine dropper before you start to feed and after - it will help with the sicky-ness. one of the funniest things that put dd finto a coma like sleep at this age (in 2 mins flat) was to take her all swaddled out into the bracing wind off the north sea. Brought back inside and stayed down. Some of the craziest things may work in the short term.

another thing that worked to put her down without startling her awake was to feed to sleep and then inch by inch slide her off me and moving slowly away so that when she was on the bed she was on the warm spot I was laying on with my mummy smell. (oh, was on the tummy on landing on the bed but then slowly as she was in a proper sleep, moved her onto back.) If you don't want to do that, put a hot water bottle in the cot and remove it before placing her down on the spot.

I have read baby whisperer and tracy hogg so I know these go all against what you want to achieve but some decent sleep to you is much more precious than putting a routine on a 7 wk old. In a couple weeks this phase will be over. You will find that once you can get some decent sleep, you won't have to do this all the time between now and then. I only did it when I was desperate for sleep.

[alux]

since dh smokes, go to a separate bed with her - or kick him to the couch. it is only for the short term. or once she goes into the deep sleep phase, move her out of the bed

[LIZS]

Firstly, you have done really well to get this far whatever the outcome. Having a feedathon and not sleeping deeply at the times you state is really common but this phase does pass, probably sooner than it feels at the time. I know it is hard with a toddler too - can you find a way fo carrying dd2 close in a sling so she can snooze whilst you sort out dd1 in the evenings.

I think you may be a bit premature in fretting about bad habits just yet although I could never sleep properly with a child in bed too. Can you find a way of getting the cot close to the bed as a compromise or try keeping a muslin on you during the day and putting her down with it so she settles to sleep with a familiar smell and warmth.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

[LIZS]

sorry posts crossed with alux (kiddie interruptions !) Agree about the routine - it just doesn't always happen so readily with no.2. I don't think dd was in a recognisable routine until around 6 months, it all revolved around her being fed in between ds' commitments (had a similar age gap) and muddling through.

[sweetkitty]

hi blossom

I had something similar with my DD at this age all she wanted to do is be held by me she wasn't too fussed by the feeding though, I remember one evening whilst we were visiting relatives when she was up to 3am (she slept till 11am though). Course she's attached to you until a couple of weeks she was inside you she just wants her Mummy.

I didn't listen to anyone else took her into bed with us and quickly fed her if she woke. It was the best thing for us to get some sleep. It was just a stage and it did get better she's now in her own cot (went at 9 months) and we finished BFing at 12 months.

I wouldn't worry about her developing bad habits she's so little spoil her (and your other DD), it will pass soon I know thats really hard at this stage but it will.

If you want to bottle feed then do it follow your instincts do what makes you happy as a family. Good luck.

[Demented]

This happened with my DS1 and 2, I had a thread about it when it happened with DS2, will try and find it as it had great advice from Mears and Tiktok on it. Be back in a minute.

[aloha]

Think Alux's advice is superb - I really do. Remember the 'problem' here is sleeping (actually think your baby is really normal - she just hasn't read the babywhisperer book ) and giving up breastfeeding won't necessarily do anything to improve that.
I think people get through this stage by going with the flow and prioritising their own sleep over worries about routine/habits. IMO a baby of seven weeks cannot have bad habits.

[Roobie]

I know it doesn't help with how you're feeling but really, you shouldn't have any expectations about baby being in a routine or developing bad habits at this early stage.

ds used to cluster feed in the evenings from 6pm to 11pm which suited me fine as I could just sit on my bum in front of the TV! He would periodically drop off or spend some time just idly suckling but eventually he would fall properly asleep and then go until 6am. Is this something you could try and get going? I know you have a dd, but once she is in bed can't you just settle down with baby?

[SoupDragon]

I had one of those mini electric blankets meant for back pain (had it already!) which I used to warm the moses basket whilstI was feeding. When it was time to put DSs back in, I removed it and put them in ontheir side (not quite the recommended sleeping position but seemed less startling than on their back. They always rolled onto their back when asleep anyway. Seemed more comfortable after a feed to me.)

Another thing we used to do if DSs wouldn't sleep at bedtime was that I would go to bed, DH would stay up with the baby and bring him up when he needed feeding.

What is she doing when she's awake from 5pm ish? Is she whingy, clingy or just lying there. Have you tried keeping her in a sing so you at least have your hands free to do other things?

[SoupDragon]

(I'm rambling and just thinking aloud btw)