My kids are driving me (and DP) nutty! Major sleep issues ... please, any advice would be so appreciated!

[kittylette]

Hiya

I need to let this out and hopefully someone will be able to help me!

We have hell at bedtime! My sons co-sleep with us, but not by choice! Its just gradually happened, I don't know how.

Anyways we take them to bed at about 7pm - one of us goes up and we all (whoever is taking them to bed that night and DS1 (2.5) and DS2 (11 months) ) and we all get into bed and they have their bottles.

Then they start getting up, screaming, crying ect ect and it takes on average 2 hours to get them to bed.

Its ruining mine and DPs relationship

When we do 'escape' from the bed once they fall asleep i can 100% guarentee that within 1.5 hours one of them will wake up and in turn wake the other up and then I have to go to bed with them.

Theres no room, no space

I love my kids to death but come 7pm they annoy the hell out of me!

This is probably TMI (but it will show whats going on in this house) me and DP have been attemping to be together intimatly for bout 10 days now and we havent been able to because of this!!

we have no 'marital bed' as theres 2 kids in it and one of them is always awake of screaming ect and we cant just go for it down satirs as one of them has usually refused to sleep and has been brought down stairs to prevent them waking the other IYKWIM.

And my 11 month old is sooooo clingy - i honestly cant put him down!!

help me

[HonoriaGlossop]

I think you need to decide what you want to end up with and then work back from that.

Is it that you want the boys in their own rooms and not in your bed at all?

If so then you just must not offer the bed, not an option, full stop.

I think it's a case of realisign that YOU hold the power in this situation; the boys want you there.....I'd make sure that you have a rock solid dependable bedtime routine that happens every night; wind down time, milk, stories, whatever....then make it clear that they now stay in their room. Sit down with them in the room if you want, but as soon as they get up, you get up and make it clear you'll only stay if they are laying in bed. Do not get drawn into conversations about it!

Then maybe if this approach works you can eventually progress to popping out and promising them you'll come back in a minute to check on them etc etc.

The boys want your presence more than anything else I bet, so you can withdraw that if they are not doing as you want them to.

This worked a treat for us, hope it might help you too. I can totally see why you want your bed back!

[kittylette]

Hiya

thankyou so much for that reply,

So you think they should both go in their own room??

i was going to keep DS2 (11 months) in a cot next to us,

Its my will power too, last night i got him to sleep in the cot but come a couple of hours later he woke up, cried and i just lifted him into our bed.

So what do I do if they are in their own room, own bed/cot and they start to cry??

go in and do what?

[maisemor]

I think HonorioGlossop is right. YOU need to take the decision and stick with it, no matter how hard it is. I've been there, and my son still comes in to our bed but only in the early morning now and he snuggles back to sleep.

We have agreed that this is okay. They only get to sleep in our bed if they are sick, and if they wake up during the night (it has to be after we have gone to bed and have fallen asleep ourselves though).

I hope you get it sorted so you and partner can get some sleep and cuddles again.

[Eddas]

There was a programme on BBC 3, cannot for the life of me remember what it was called, but it was all about kids with behaviour/sleep problems. Anywho, they had a lot of families on their which had similar problems to yours and the basic first advice was as HG said decide what you want.

IMO they should be in their own room, but that's just coz I couldn't co-sleep with dd as she's so bloomin wriggly i would never sleep,LOL!!

It is for you to decide what you want then you must implement it. Again as HG said you have to show them you're in charge.

On the programme i mention most of the kids seem to get the idea within a few nights. The parents sometimes had to put them back alot on the first night or so, so i'd prepare yourself for a few sleepless ones. But you must stick to it once you start. You aren't being cruel. They will be fine. And more importantly you and dp will get some space back.HTH

[HonoriaGlossop]

kitty it's totally up to you whether they both go in their own room; is that what you would like?

My ds was in his own room by 11 months, and I think many are and many aren't; your call. I think you'd have to work out whether it would be simpler to do both at once in one room or to keep your ds2 in with you?

And yes it is about willpower, I guess it's easier to life them into bed when you are bloody knackered! I think you just have to take the decision and stick to it personally. Also, you and dp need to give each other breaks so that it's not always one poor person trooping in during the night. I put on another sleep thread that my ds stopped waking in the night when all he got was DH rather than me so it might help more than you think if your DP is involved in the night stuff.

If/when they wake in the night I think you just repeat the exercise, stay with them only so long as they are laying in bed. Withdraw if they start to play or get up to show them you mean business. Make sure you have a comfy chair in the room perhaps!

Obviously all kids are different but this is what worked for us; my ds is five soon and we still pop in and out checking on him when he drops off, he still won't accept just being left in bed; but it's fine, and he doesn't wake in the night now at all.

[CoteDAzur]

We put DD in her own room & bed at 4 months and only after that did she start to sleep through the night. 11 months is definitely old enough for your little one to be sleeping in his own bed.

Besides, if you tell one to go to his room at night and the other is allowed to stay with you, I imagine there will be some jealousy and conflict.

You and your DP are the parents here, and you two set the rules. From now on, the rules are that boys sleep in their own beds. That is really as simple as it is.

[WanderingTrolley]

Buy these books:

Solve your Child's Sleep Problems

No Cry Sleep Solution

[MMG]

it is your choice if you decide they go in there own room or not...my ds is 3 and has slept in our bed alot but thats cuz i like him near by...he goes to sleep in his own bed and if he wakes later after we have gone to bed i put him in with us...but the general rule for us is that he goes to sleep in his own bed first....i always have to wait with him until he has fell asleep then i go back down stairs...he gets scared on his own so i don`t push it.

i now alot of people that have their kids in bed with them and alot who totally refuse...i depends what you and your partner are happy with...best to think about it and make a choice then stick to it, otherwise they will get confused. good luck

[delores]

Hi Kitty

We had a similar situation with our 2 (who were similar ages) for about a year. In the end we managed by:
Put both together at 7.30 or later if they had slept much in the day.
Both shared a room
Would rock rhe baby to sleep while sitting on a chair so that the 2yr old would stay in bed (he would fall asleep quite quick if he didn't keep getting up. Usually had them both asleep by 8.30.
The baby always woke up again (9.30ish)so would bring her into the living room she would fall back to sleep on my lap while I watched TV. (Not reccommended technique but it worked and ment didnt spend all eve in their bedroom)
When the 2 yr old woke at night, DH would get in his bed until he fell asleeep then go back to our bed.
When the baby woke I would sleep on a sofa bed in the dining room with her (still do most nights).
At least we got to sleep together for some of the night, and I could go to bed with my husband even if I didn't stay there.

At 3.7yrs DS started sleeping through the night spontaneously and now DD (2) does some nights, so the end is in sight.

Good luck

[cruisemum1]

havenot read all posts but I reallly think you have to be cruel to be kind. It will be heartbreaking at the time but i don't think there is any middleground esp since it is affecting your relationship with dh. You could use some sort of reward chart with the 2.5yo possibly. the 11mo will be harder to 'reason' wiht but maybe a bit of tough love is required.....

[casbie]

your children are soo young 2.5 and 11 months...

if they were my children (and i know they are not) i wouldn't worry about getting them to stay in the in their room.

they want to be next to you when they sleep, there's not much wrong with that.

if you want to be more intimate get a nice rug for the livingroom! or a sleepover at gran's!!

and perhaps a comfy chair in their room, while you wait for them to go to sleep.






my children 6, 3, 1 still come in our bed during the night if they are having a nightmare or need something. they don't all come in at the same time and they don't usually sleep in our room all night, but i kind of expect it. i'm pleased that they feel comfortable in coming to us, rather being fearful sitting in the dark.

[cruisemum1]

just re-read what i have typed. I sound so hard faced. I'm not, really . But you sound like you want the problem fixed and it's not as if there isn't crying at bedtime anyway so maybe your constant going to them is what is keepiung them from sleeping through as much as it is getting them to sleep iyswim. Kind o flike withdrawing a dummy cos the bloody thing keeps falling out. Withdraw it completely and wihtin a few days the issue has gone. You could still offer comfort but I would jsut go to them when they cry, give them a kiss and quick hug, say nightnight and leave the room. continue doing this for as long as it takes.

[cruisemum1]

casbie - echo what you said re: them feeeling comfortable coming to your room if they need you. my dd age 9 still comes into our room for a cuddle if she needs reassuring but 99% of the time she sleeps through anyway.

[casbie]

i'm sure that a 11month old can't differenciate between want and need...

if they cry it's because they need you.

i tried controlled crying with my eldest and it's the biggest mistake i've ever made.

she still cries if she hears the mobile tune she had when she was a baby and hates the dark, whereas the other two are much more adjusted to sleeping on their own.

[PizPizPiz]

I haven't read the whole thread so sorry for repeating what's probably been said.
You need to get your sons out of your bed asap. They need to have their own bed each and go to sleep without you or dp being around. I actually can't believe you stay with them until they're asleep. Make a sensible plan, make up rules, and stick to them, no matter how long it takes.

[CoteDAzur]

"they want to be next to you when they sleep, there's not much wrong with that. if you want to be more intimate get a nice rug for the livingroom! or a sleepover at gran's!! and perhaps a comfy chair in their room, while you wait for them to go to sleep."

With all due respect, which planet are you from where that is considered good advice??? Seriously.

[delores]

Sounds like perfectly good advice to me.

[PizPizPiz]

Except for the fact that kitty is not happy with the situation and neither is hubby. Sleeping on a rug in the living room wouldn't help her boys sleep better, and that's what they want to achieve.

[cruisemum1]

but we are supposed to love, care for and parent our children, not sacrifice our adult relationships surely?! Children benefit from seeing their parents in a loving and secure relationship, not barking at each other through lack of sleep....!

[cruisemum1]

pizpiz - think we cross posted - barking up same tree as you

[casbie]

the rug is for the adult relationship ie. SEX not to sleep on FFS!

have a quickie in the bathroom, in the livingroom, hell in the kitchen. just because there are children in your bed doesn't mean you have to live without!

and the most important relationships are between all members of the family. if the children need you, they need you - why is that up for discussion?

i'm just pointing out that when i did controlled crying with my first born (and didn't know any better), it has made it harder for her to become independant during the night and surely that's what the original poster is aiming for?

read 'three in a bed' for more sleep research and value insight to parent-child sleep patterns. there is reasons why children need you during in the night and just being with them ie comfort is almost as ness. as food and drink.

[bozza]

But kitty has already said that even the living room is ruled out because the little one is usually back downstairs with them. Also I, personally, would not dream of sending such poor sleepers to spend the night with anyone else.

As others have said I think you need to decide what you want to achieve and then take steps towards that. What were your reasons for keeping your DS2 in with you? Did you think he would sleep better, be easier to settle, does he feed in the night? I think it is fine but for the reservation of the effect on DS1.

[SmileyLinda]

Hey guys, just read all comments! I think at the end of the day everyone's different and dfferent things work for us. We've never had our daughter in bed beside us - she's 16 months and we've had her in a bedtime routine since day one. She started sleeping through at 3 days old! This may have been luck, however we've never changed her routine, bathtime, massage, milk, story then bed. Don't get me wrong, there's regularly tears - but it's usually tiredness. She's an idependent wee sausage but personally - i think the key is consistency! Get a routine and stick to it - it's hard, but worth it. much love xxx

[Vikkin]

Have to agree about controlled crying. Used it on my eldest, now aged 12 he still finds going to bed stressful and drifts off to Animal Planet. Did not use it on my 5 year old, she tells a few secrets and then drops off.
Start putting them to bed at the latest possible acceptable time for the next week(they'll be more tired). Get a cheap/secondhand double bed for the kids room, do your 'altogether' bit in there (an altogether end to the day is great), few stories, songs etc. Get them settling well albeit late. Then start bringing their bedtime earlier by 15 mins every 4/5 days. Worry about getting them into separate beds in a couple of years when your eldest starts demanding bunk beds.
Arrange to meet your partner at 10pm at the dining table (not the sofa). He should have drinks and nibbles waiting. If you have got the kids off at 9, use the spare hour on yourself. From 10pm on 'date night' it's about you two, not discussions about kids' and their sleeping problems. Rmember one quality night once a fortnight is worth four quickies.
Have used all these techniques myself. Life ain't perfect but we've lasted 23 years!

[Vikkin]

As for waking in the night - my technique was to leave a bulky dressing gown that I had been wearing on their bed with them, they often snuggled into it and went back off. If they appeared at my bedside, no discussions, always go back to their bed with them. When they go off you can go back to your bed, but it doesn't really matter if you drop off with them. That was another reason for the double in their room. No way could I fit onto some cute little 'Princess' or 'Superhero' bed - then OR now.