Advice please? 3 year old daughter at Nursery....

[Tups]

Hi,
Long story, narrowed down to.... Our 3 year old daughter started nursery last week. She's shy of new people & won't talk to strangers etc. I got pulled in on Monday as she is "un-coperative" and "rude" because she will not answer when spoken to or join in (unless she wants to, like most kids I thought!). Today she has just told my mother in law (I'm at work) that one of the ladies told her "you are a grumpy little girl"
I'm furious but don't want to rock the boat, should I say something? Also, because she wouldn't ask them to do her coat up, she said she had to go outside with it undone (and we had snow today), is this right or are they proving a point by getting her to ask for things?
I want to go headstrong in there and create merry hell but I thought I would see if anyone had a more calming approach...!
Thanks ..

[clairemow]

Poor little girl, it sounds like she's being traumatised by it all.

She's 3, and they are saying she's uncooperative because she isn't answering? What did you say to them on Monday? - I guess you spoke to them about her shyness?

I think you do need to go in and speak with the nursery, definitely. It doesn't sound as though she is being helped to settle in very well... It may be that your daughter has misunderstood a kind of jokey, "my aren't you grumpy today" sort of comment, but added to the other things you've said, I think the nursery need to be more mindful of her particular character and shyness. And if it is a misunderstanding, then it will put your mind at rest.

On the coat, my DS is nearly 3, and there's no way he can do his coat up on his own - I find zips fiddly, so I don't think expecting a 3 year old to do their own up is reasonable. When it's snowing, they ought to be checking each child's coat and doing up those that are undone. The staff are there to take care of our children when it comes down to it, and letting her outside with her coat open is not fulfilling that role imo.

I don't envy you the chat though - maybe it would be best to make a note of what you want to say, and try to make it non-confrontational, perhaps say that you want to come in and discuss how DD is settling, and that there are a few issues that are concerning you.

[Tups]

Thanks for that. On Monday I came out of there in tears after session finished as I felt I was a bad parent!! I don't want to make too much of it as I don't think it will help our daughter but today was the first day she did not cry (which was the biggest issue me and other half had) so she had a sticker on her chart. Once she knows someone, she will be fine but even my own mum who lives 300 miles away she can ignore, she just needs the time. I felt like I had to write out 100 lines!! (nursery is part of a school). I know I have to take everything with a pinch of salt but I really don't think she is "rude" or un-coperative. I have asked my other half if he can get time off work to come with me and have a chat with them as I wi;; either get reall angry or upset!!
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
x

[Tups]

BTW, on Monday I just said that we will tackle the issues and try to get her to respond. Our daughter still sees the teachers as "strangers" which is why she won't really have a lot to do with them.
You know what children are like, they do the opposite you tell them to so we are trying to not let her own way all the time.
Mind you, another parent got pulled over as her daughter had a tantrum (part of life I thought!) and was screaming "no" and kicking out and another was also told that her daughter was "un-coperative" aswell. i think they want them to be like little soldiers all lined up!

[Elasticwoman]

You are a good parent - some might not notice what effect nursery is having, or care enough to talk to the nursery staff.
This whole thing takes me back to when dd was 3 and I was told she had "failed" the first term of swimming lessons. "Failed" and "unco-operative" are inappropriate ways of describing 3 year old behaviour. She sounds perfectly normal to me and not at all rude.

I think you and dh should talk to them again. The behaviours they describe are THEIR problem and it is up to them to deal with it, not pass it on to you. You are paying for them to care for her.

I would start looking for alternative care now, just in case this dispute is not resolved. I always used childminders, they are so much more loving. But a nursery has its advantages I know.

[Tups]

Many thanks for your kind words, this is a pre-school nursery rather than day care so I have no issue in removing her. I don't want her to be moved so quickly as she likes routine and it took ages to get her prepped to go there. This is her 2nd week but at the moment feel like it's been forever! It is so hard but I think we will have a chat with them. The teacher is actually nursery teacher rather than a carer and it really shows!

[Bekks]

I agree it is completely inappropriate for them to say that a 3 yo is uncooperative and rude - I would never say dd, also 3, is either because she doesn't have any concept of either word. They should make sure that all kids are dressed appropriately for the weather, whatever their behaviour. It is also completely outrageous if she was told that she was grumpy (if this is true - quite difficult to take 3 yo's at their word...mine keeps saying that the "teachers tell me off" with little evidence - our nursery is good). Can you have a meeting with the manager? It's quite difficult to know what is and isn't true from a 3 yo's account, especially without your own knowlege of the place, but if they have said these things directly to you then that's bad. Is there an OFSTED report of the place, can you get a general idea of what it's like from that?

[hunkermunker]

OMFG, I would be LIVID!

DS1 is starting preschool atm and he is wary of new people - I would be really, really upset if anyone spoke to him like that.

I don't have any advice, really, other than are there any other nurseries nearby, but I would NOT accept this sort of negative talk to my child, especially when they're clearly uneasy about a new situation.

What kind of person works in childcare and speaks to children like this?!

[shivy]

LAST WEEK???????????????????????????
The poor child is only three.I am a montessori teacher and it takes 3 wks for a child to settle AT LEAST. not talking is normal until they get their confidence up.Id pull her out if iyou can.Sorry

[gingermonkey]

Tups, that is really awful, what a horrid sounding place. At 3 yrs old a child will find it a lot harder to settle in than a 1 year old. They are far more aware of new things and unsettled by change. I would speak to the nursery manager and tbh I would pull her out of there. I had a similar experience with dd when she was 18 mths, she screamed each time we went near nursery, I moved her and she was happy from the first day. Not all nurseries care about the kids, some are far too interested in money. I am totally disgusted by the way that poor little thing has been treated. Another thing, she shouldn't have to ASK for her coat doing up.

[Lazylou]

Agree with Shivy. Three flippin' weeks and they are already giving the poor child the label of unccoperative (which translated from nursery speak is another way of saying 'naughty'.) The attitude of some nursery people really drives me mad. We had one child who took almost six weeks to settle completely and he was three.

My DD is three tomorrow and it took her almost a month before she was happy in the nursery where I now work.

As for the not helping her to do her coat up, yes, I understand that they are trying to instil independece in her and encourage the children to learn these things for themselves, but to allow her to go out into the freezing snowy weather with her coat open, is imho as bad as neglect and for that they would at least get a strong letter from me and a demand to see the manager of the place. What a joke

[hotandbothered]

Poor you! It does sound like you'll have to have a difficult conversation. They certainly don't seem to be on your dd's wavelength yet. What do other parents think of the nursery?
My dd takes a while to warm up to strangers. We were really lucky - her playschool recognised that and have treated her so kindly. She is really happy there and they are thrilled she now talks freely to them. But it took most of the first half term for her to really settle.
I would be horrified if they used terms like 'uncooperative' about children in their care tbh. Children are only like that if there is a problem IMHO. Good luck! Is there anywhere else if you do decide to move her?

[Aloha]

They sound very mean and unreasonable.

[BuffysMum]

I am horrified at their attitude. It took my dd a term before she would talk to anyone and 3 terms before she would talk to all the staff. It is her personality they helped work with it and now she's started school and it only took her 4 weeks to talk to her teacher sorry not much advice really but the nursery is so wrong to be like that with her.

[Elasticwoman]

In my experience foundation stage teachers (as opposed to play leaders, classroom assistants and other carers) have been excellent with this age group. I just wonder whether your child's teacher is trained for early years; sounds like her experience is with secondary! Have you looked at the Ofsted report, btw?

[clairemow]

how was yesterday Tups?

[sunnysideup]

I agree, I would usually say it is worth giving it time and talking to the staff - however someone who is capable of even thinking that a 3 year old child who is in a new and unfamiliar setting, just separating from their parent, is rude and unco-operative...well I'm afraid there's no hope for them.

I'd get her out and get her into a more kindly, realistic setting.....

don't just stick with it because you're worried about the change. If it's to something much better and more nurturing then it's worth it for your dd.

I moved my ds after one term in his first pre-school and did not regret it for a second. We simply told him he was all finished with (name of pre-school) because he was a big enough boy to go to (name of new pre-school!) now.....

[franca70]

agree with sunny. Also the nursery should have offered some sort of induction, some time for her to settle in, like a few days with you staying with her for like an hour, as she gets used to her new environment.

[Elasticwoman]

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest that playleaders etc are not excellent, just that children sometimes can't differentiate between the Teacher and other help in the classroom.

[amidaiwish]

I would take her out immediately.
My two children go to nursery and they receive nothing but love and kindness. That is how it should be. They would never ever be spoken to like that.

[coppertop]

It sounds like an awful place.

At ds2's pre-school the staff check each child's coat before they go out into the play area. They would certainly never use the excuse "He/she didn't ask for it to be done up so I didn't bother." And the poor little mite's only been there for a week???

[CheesyFeet]

Sounds dreadful. Imagine talking like that to a three year old who was in a new situation and out of their depth? Poor love

I would find her somewhere else to go tbh. Do you want her to go to the primary school attached to the nursery?

[nogoes]

Take her out, it sounds awful. Ds started nursery recently and there is no way that they would ever talk to a child that way. Nursery should be a place where children can be themselves and feel respected and cared for. I don't think it is worth speaking to them as I don't imagine they are likely to change by the sound of things. I would pull her out and look for somewhere more suitable. Good luck.

[Tups]

Hi all, many thanks, I have read all of your comments and views and I am so confused! I think I will show this to my other half and see what he thinks. I am logging everything at the moment in case I need to write a letter or speak to them so I have exact dates etc..
This is a nursery school which is part of a school, the idea was that she would go there and move up through the years and she also has 2 little boys she knows there. Her dad went to the same school and the ofsted was good (when I read it) and I know a few people who's kids go the school.
I am really confused now!! Is it really easy to change nursery schools just like that. We have made a break through with her as she has not cried for the last 2 days (and has been rewarded for it! The joys of chocolate!!) The Nursery Teacher is bit of an old dragon (sorry!) and is probably in her 50's but then so is my mum and she was a nursery nurse and is ever so kind with all children so it must just be her!
I have spoken to another mum today who said that they did exactly the same to her first son and she made a complaint to the headmistress (for what good it did I assume).
BTW: she went outside again today without her coat being done up......gggggrrrrrrrr!
I think I will have a word tomorrow as I know 3 year olds are quite good at not telling the full story but Amie is not usually a fibber.
I shall keep you posted and thank you all for your words of wisdom.

[gingermonkey]

My dd's old head from her pre prep (so around the same age as your LO) was in her late 50s, a complete dragon with the staff and amazing with the kids. She used to tell us that if your child tells you there is a problem, there is...they don't make things like that up, only silly things like they did eat all their vegetables, and they did wash their hands after going to the loo. Good luck.

[clairemow]

Tups, I think Gingermonkey's right - if your DD seems really unhappy and you are unhappy, then I think you really should speak to the nursery or take her out. I think you need to follow your gut instinct, after all you know your daughter better than anyone. It may be teething problems, I really hope so because going to nursery should be really fun at 3. I think definitely go in with DH, and have a list of the things that have happened.

I guess how hard it is to move her depends on how many nurseries there are in your area, and what the waiting lists are like. Here there's often a long waiting list.

It is normal for a LO to maybe be upset at starting nursery/pre-school, and to find it a difficult step, esp if it's the first time they've been away from their mum/dad, but the pre-school should be doing all they can to help every child settle. And they should understand that some children find it harder than others, and that all deal with it in different ways.

I still can't believe they let her out with her coat undone in this freezing weather - that would be enough to complain, even without all the other stuff imo.