I think meeting others at the school gate should just be left to 'hi, nice weather today' type of chat. I personally think if your life is already fulfilled with a good mix of friends, what's the point of making your already full calendar even fuller at trying to make more friends who really won't have much more in common than they also have kids like yourself.

getting a hobby is the way forward I think, rather than focusing in on others with kids.

walk further!

'Cos you'd run out of people otherwise??

Why stop at 28 days?!

Two thoughts:

Boden's response made me wonder if blokes ever have this kind of angst. I imagine not.

Tattifer put me in mind of the Feng Shui dictum that you should greet a new person every day for 28 days without asking for anything or complaining. That is supposed to find you friends and/or improve your luck, I think.

invited, even

Agree with everyone who's said don't ask - it exposes your vulnerability and that generally scares people. Also, if you have to ask you also have to kind of accept they're just not that into you - as it were!

I talk to all kinds of people in all kinds of situations during the average day - work, lady at the checkout, person out walking dog etc but the school gates is a place I decided I was never going to excel at. The few that are my kind of people talk to me and I to them, because they're my kind of people. Don't get me wrong I tend to judge people on they're honesty and down to earthness, not income etc. Enterainment value for school yard conversation or I tend not to bother!

I have a small handful of excellent friends, a few others whom I'd like to get to know better and street loads of people who I will happily chat to but who will never be invitined home

Dandy - thanks for explaining that point - not sure I entirely agree - as MN is huge by comparison to the school gates - and I think if you are one of life's non-conformists, the more people you "meet" the better chance you have of finding a connection.

Assuming you don't work at the moment, will you be doing so any time soon?

I found it really hard when we moved when DDs were 6 and 4. Lots of "cliques" were already established and the members just didn't want to know, but there was also a tendency for people to snap you up as new blood, socialise with you for a while then move on to the next person.

I now have a core group of friends who I feel like I'll have forever.

Working has helped a lot - they're all men and it's made me realise quite how difficult and judgmental women in groups can be (a generalisation, I know, but my experience).

I'd repeat the earlier advice to get involved in something non school related. Do something that interests you and you'll have a head-start of something in common.

Jeez, I need to start editing before posting.

Should be " you can be my friend." (providing you don't judge my awful typing...)

And just realised that Total Chaos, you didn't actually say whether your (originally) online friends were through MN or other sites, I just assumed it was MN so sorry if I was wrong. But anyway, lots of people have made RL friends through MN.

TiggyR - Ah, thank you. You be my friend

TotalChaos - My point, which I probably didn't make that well, is that the first stage of making the MN friends you have was being on MN - it was being parents that was the 'ice breaker'. Likewise in RL, at the school gates there will doubtless be someone who the OP or anyone would have common ground with. So poo-pooing the potential for friendship amongst other school parents is a bit silly IMO.

Ahh they don't sound very nice people.I have it all to come i suppose,I did it all as a job for many years as a nanny,people are strange,i hate fair weather people,
Being a mum can be lonely sometimes,lots of mums are in the same position so should have a bit of thought&be more friendly towards you! good luck

Dandylioness - that was a lovely post - very sensibel and compassionate at the same time. Said all that needs to be said really.

Boffinmum - I am considered to be a fairly confident outgoing person but I frequently move in circles where I feel like a 3rd rater because I am not as slim/pretty/rich as the other women there (I am pretty-ish, and rich-ish, but sadly far too fat to be a yummy mummy or an A-lister!!!(size 16)and I have felt that feeling of rejection as people are clearly trying to edge away from me politely and strike up a conversation with someone who is in their 'echelon' or who seems more influential/beautiful. So, it just proves that the social hierarchy is alive and well, and no matter how successful and together you are, there is always supposedly someone better to network with!

I think if you are very intelligent it can alientate the plastic women who have no interest beyond their hair, their personal trainer and their husband's bank balance. God knows, I'm not Einstein, or a career woman, but I do often want to talk on a philosophical/mildly intellectual level that leaves some women looking a bit pained!

agree with others, find a genuine place to make friends, not the superficial kind standing at school gates.

it is also true that women in large groups tend to be bitchy anyway, so don't waste your time.

try a hobby, meet people you can discuss your hobby with, and make a true friendship or friendships.

I won't be holding my breath to make friends at the school gates when DS goes off to school, feel I have enough going on in life as it is without adding more pressure on myself.

Forget those other mums, they can't see past their own nose it seems...you are much better than that.

so as I'm fat and eccentric I should be deservedly friendless then . Don't worry Iammummynomates, not everyone is quite so harsh with their friend criteria.

Re:Oversharing - being too honest about relationship troubles/mental health issues/money worries until you know someone well and have a real idea that they will not be judgmental (usually by guaging their attitude towards other people with similar problems)

Dandy - the vast majority of online friends I've made have been through moving from online via e-mail/MSN to real life meetings due to shared interests - not due to having kids the same age.

Not read it all. But just wanted to send you a hug and say - it is most likely that it is nothing to do with you. These days, people are so self centred. They have what they consider to be busy lives, and frankly do not have the energy to give to friendship - which is actually quite a bit.

Don't ask, as it would make them feel bad and would make you look needy. Instead, as i saw others say - try to get some other links - PTA, join a club, do a mumsnet local meet up. But focus on enjoying the time there without getting too het up about seeing the people again. That best friends feeling that some of us had a school and in our late teens is just not that common when you are an adult. Once you are more confident and have more social contact, then the friends thing will not matter so much. And because of that, it might actually come on it's own. Bit like looking for a partner - the best ones often come along when you are not looking. (But you still need to be in the game to meet them at all!)

Fircone, I think the disappearing off while someone's chatting thing is bad manners, but alas all too common. That's how many of the mums at the school gate here behave. However in seven years I have managed to make 3 or 4 reasonably good school gate chums and that gets me by. I don't expect a lot tbh - also because I am a Boffin people get a bit scared because - and I quote - "You must know so much!" (I am also blonde, but that is not proving to be a very good disguise, clearly)

Ironically the mum who is worst at the wandering off thing whilst being spoken to and perceiving a better offer is a hospital consultant, so probably knows even more . Perhaps her bedside manner is also lacking in RL. (Although my DH says it's because her DH isn't interested in her any more and she is also desperately trying to be queen bee of the PTA for some unfathomable reason).

Interestingly in other aspects of RL I have no problems getting to know people, except for academic conferences, which can be even worse than the school gate. One notoriously rude colleague was so awful once I winked at a mutual acquaintance we were with, and pulled his leg a bit, with, "Why are you looking over my shoulder while I'm talking? Are you hoping for a better offer??" He reddended and admitted he was looking for one of the more important people to come into the room!! We had to hand it to him for honesty really.

These women don't sound like friend material anyway, OP. You WILL make friends eventually, I had one friend at school and when she got a full time job I didn't really talk to anyone else, wasn't bothered though as I have friends outside school. Now there's a few of us and it happened naturally, at the right time, without any real effort from me. Don't let the cliquey types put you off.

I understand.

I have lived where I live for five years. I have no friends here. I am relatively normal and friendly, but I have never had coffee with anyone, let alone any further social interaction. Everyone else seems to have friends - there's much hailing and waving at the school gate, but although people are superficially pleasant to me, nothing has gone further.

I've had a few humiliating experiences as well, when I've started a conversation with someone such as "How is Johnnie getting along this term?" or "Nice weather lately" and the person has answered, but then shot off to stand with someone else. Or when I started to speak to a woman and another mum came over and said "Oh, there you are" and dragged her off - while I was still speaking. I felt a right plonker, I can tell you.

It does make one start to question what is wrong - but I think that some people (eg me) send out negative vibes. It's the opposite of sex appeal, if you will. Although bizarrely I do tend to get on better with the few dads I speak to.

Been reading this thread with intrest as i moved to a completely new area 18 mnths ago and had to start from scratch building new social network.

I don't feel i make friends easily and i feel growing up very rurally with no other kids around was a major factor in this.

The friends i have, old ones, i have a great laugh with and we can talk about anything, thats what i miss most.

Now i have read about 'over sharing' i'm feeling slightly paranoid that i tend to do this if i meet someone i feel i click with in an attempt to get where i was with my old cirlce iykwim!!

So could i have a few examples of 'over sharing'???

Interesting thread, has raised a lot of issues.

OP, as everyone else has said, you can't ask the group why they don't want to be friends with you. It woudn't help your cause. In a way however, it's a shame you can't ask (and that you probably wouldn't get an honest answer anyway) because sometimes it is helpful to have an honest mirror held up to ourselves. I admire jellyroly's honesty in asking her friend and sharing the reasons here - sounds like although it was excrutiating, it did ally jellyroly to modify some of her behaviour or to realise that it wasn't her that was an issue, but the difference between her kids and the others in the group.

I think that the mix of kids can be a key factor in who gets invited to outside-of-chool gatherings. Sometimes there is one or more children who are disruptive, even in the nicest possible way, like being a boisterous boy amongst quiet girls, and it can sometimes feel like too much hassle to have them there. I say that as someone who's own child was, when 2, very disruptive nd hard work (hitting and just generally very high energy with no fear) when we'd meet up with two women and their kids, despite my best efforts to reign her in. (The women started suggesting meeting up in the evenings, so that they could see me without DD )

Could that possibly be a factor here - the behaviour of your child/ren? I know that the kids won't be at coffee mornings, but it could still maybe prevent them from inviting you into the fold.

However, I think what is telling is that you say you don't have any friends generally. Which does sort of suggest that sorry, the issue may be with you. If you feel really down about it, maybe a counsellor could help you look at the situation honestly and see where you could change your approach?

It could be that, because you feel you don't have any friends, your 'need' is greater than others, because making even one friend would naturally make a massive difference for you. And that greater need may be what's coming across and putting people off. It is a sad fact that when we're needy, it often has the effect of pushing people away.

But if they're arranging social gatherings in front of you without inviting you, when you've invited them to things, then they don't sound particularly nice.

One more thing - I find it somewhat ironic that people on here have said that the school gates are NOT the place to make friends as why should you accept to have anything in common with them just because you both have kids. I find it ironic because we're all on a site called mumsnet, and the starting point for the bonding that gone on here has been people having the common ground of being parents. Sure, within that group of people you will have other things in common with some but not others, but having kids of the same age is a good way to meet people.

I have been lucky in that I have made an amazing group of women friends through my DD's school, so not everyone suffers at the school gates. Admittedly I knew a couple of them through local P&T groups first, but they introduced me to the others, practically all of whom have older children than me. And then on my own I've made friends with other mothers of DD's classmates. When I struggled at points during my recent pregnancy and was ill after the birth, they were extremely supportive both emotionally and on a practical leve. But it is a very friendly school, and although there are decided groups, pretty much everyone says hello and smiles at everyone else.

I was in this situation a few years ago, after I had my first dd. I had no friends, didn't have the confidence to go to mother and baby group..Then, my dd started to go to playgroup every morning and then I met some mums but completely differents than me..let's just say, I'm not at all into fashion, I look plain tbh and they were all yummy mummies etc..It took a while, but we became friends, I think I have a good sense of humour and that did the trick..I have just relaxed and then it all came...we have been going out for drinks regurlarly for the last 3 years..They organised drinks, I organised drinks...I don't know if it helps, but I understand what you feel...

Cathpot - you've knocked it on the head with the over-share thing. I met one of those once and she frightened the life out of me by the end of week one. I backed off pretty sharpish. She then proceeded to work her way round the enitre village 'over-sharing' in a bid to make friends, and eventually became a laughing stock. Sad really. But she could also be quite bolshy and loud, so people didn't cut her any slack or tolerate her for very long.

Metmoo - suspecting/knowing that you are unattractive can be a huge obstacle to overcome and can knock your confidence for life. But it really is a state of mind. Scrub all the make-up off Beth Ditto or Tracy Emin and put them in dowdy clothes and they say 'I'm an invisible useless ugly/fat loser'. Yet actually, both those women are hugely charismatic and popular because they believe in themselves, they ooze individuality, character and self-belief, and they make the very best of what they have without self-consciousness. They don't go 'well I'm fat/odd looking so I'll just try to blend into the background.' Outcome? Two of the hippest most influential women of the 21st century. Not easy to pull off, I know. True natural confidence and likeability is a born trait, but to an extent it can be learnt. There is a lesson there.

ooops, soul not sould, lol

OP....sorry you are having a difficult time making friends...

I speak easily to people and on a very superficial level talk to many people...but making real friends is a different issue....but I always assumed that that is normal...iykwim... [head in sand emoticon]...but am happy with the friends I have, so, I suppose that is why I don't worry.

But, thumbwitch, I think, made good suggestions with the mirroring others....very subtly...

also, maybe stand back for a while and observe the groups and work out the dynamics, etc...

sometimes, people may just assume you are not really interested in mixing with them, sometimes it can be helpful to ask, if maybe you could join x,y,z event...people may jsut think you wouldn't be interested, iykwim...

but do not ask them what is wrong with you, either you wouldn't be given a true answer anyway = pointless ...or they might be to full on wiht their truths, and that could be sould destroying...

As I am writing this I am thinking of a women I see weekly at an after school thing who I immediately labelled 'over-share woman'. She is clean, slim, educated and has decent teeth so she ticks the normality boxes that have been outlined here, but my god does she over-share.

Within two meetings I knew far more about her than women I have been studiously and steathily befriending at the school gates for a year now. It is hugely unnerving and very off putting. She couples it with constant jumping into other people's conversation with unlooked for advice, presumably because she just wants to be friendly. It backfires because she has such a hectoring tone and is generally insensitive to social signals, she doesnt seem to sense when other people's backs are going up.

I found her hugely annoying but in the last couple of weeks have started to feel bad for here as two separate women have said to me (unprompted but I suspect they have been watching my body language more closely than she has) 'my god that women is irritating,' and had a rant about her.

What I am saying in a long winded way is that it is often quite subtle issues that may be shafting your attempts to make friends and the fact you are reflecting on the problem is a good start.

It may be that you have hit a particularly unfriendly clique or it may be that you need to think about the sorts of things you say in polite chit chat and if your need for friendship is pushing you into other people's personal space too fast.

I moved 3 times in DD1's first 2 years and I had to put a huge amount of effort into meeting people and getting my 'drop in and have coffee' sanity network to a reasonable level. It is hard to make friends in adulthood whoever you are but it is possible. I think the advice about joining some other social group through volunteering or clubs is great. Its frustrating for you not to be able to put your finger on the problem- can you think of anyone who might act as an impartial assessor of what the problem might be? Asking the other mums is social suicide but I dont know- family? GP? Some sort of self confidence building course?

SHe was freaky, had a really badly behaved kid that she said was misunderstood

Better to be weird and interesting, than a sheep!

There was this nutty mum near us who invited eveyone to coffee in a weekday.
No one knew who she was( notes in kids bags) and most were at work anyway and tbh anyone would have sussed that mums meeting for coffee was not something that happened at that school unless you had some reason to do so,

I felt sorry for her and went. I was the only one there. SHe spent the whole time moaning about everyone else.

Then someone asked her about it later and she said " yes someone came, cant remember her name"

Then she moved.

are you a bit weird?
are you stalkery.
i cant see why people woudlnt be unless you are a bit odd

sorry to be blunt honest but everyone else is skirting around hte issue

There is NO such thing as a perfect person.
Everyone, even the ones who seem to have everything and are clever, are all hiding something

ps im overweight and my teeth are horrible cant afford dentist and virtually no nhs ones where we live confidence drops a further 90% have also been told many a time i am ugly or strange help

im just the same i have acquaintences people i work or have worked with but never get asked to theirs or on nights out. it does absolutely nothing for your confidence, i was beginning to think i was the only one, i'm crap at making and keeping conversation unless i feel at ease then i talk for england othertimes i clam up or just talk a load of garble. people must think im nuts which lowers my confidence more id love some friends honestly good luck to you all xx

Are you clean? Well presented? Nice teeth?

Do you smile? Do eye contact? etc

You've also got to be quite mercenary, tbh. I know if someone's going to become a real friend if we suddenly find ourselves talking about things other than the children...without overtly changing the subject IYSWIM.
If this doesn't happen after a few meetings, I tend to pull back.
It's a numbers game...but these women are a non-starter, I'm afraid, OP.

Jeepers, TiggyR! That's a lot to get right! All honest advice, and useful. Bit worried now that I'm one of those people...

Life's pretty brutal!

Sorry - clicked twice!

I know someone who is always present at mums and tots, PTA etc, but never present at anything she needs to actually be invited to. She's actually quite hard work, rather pessimistic, always looks stressed or flustered. She clearly wants to fit in but somehow her personality just alientates people and then she'll try too hard, which is creepy. Rule number one, don't try too hard! Definitely don't ask - that would be seriously off-putting. You can bet that the whole town will know that you put someone on the spot and embarrassed them, and then no-one will come near you at all!

Thinking about people I have known who may be in the same boat as you, I would say the following:

Don't be whiny, needy, always fed-up, or pessimistic

Don't be clingy, demanding, pushy. It freaks people out.

You say you are outwardly confident. Are you too confident? Do you hog the conversation, or brag, or lecture people?

Find new people. The old lot are clearly just not interested. Smile, and be positive. Start small. A friendly hello for a few mornings, then a brief chat, then a longer one. Move in by stealth. It might take months but don't blow it by telling someone your life story on day one and inviting them for supper on day 3. It's not normal.

Are you unusual in anyway? I'm being serious now. Eccentric? BO? Bad breath? Peculiar dress? Bizarre politics or religion? 40" bust and no bra? You don't need to be beautiful/conventional to make friends but it helps if you are at least a bit 'normal'.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ask people about themselves (not too nosey or personal)before you start telling them everything about you. People love to think that people are interested in them.

Try seeking out other people like yourself who always appear to be excluded. Don't just home in on anyone just because they are on their own, but really take time to analyse it. Are those people frequently on the outside of groups even though they know everyone? Ask on here if anyone is local(ish) and feels they can identify with what you say. Try to get three or four people together for coffee and see what happens. Even start a sub-group on here for people who can't make friends and maybe you could meet up. You are very brave to say what you've said, and I know there are loads of people who feel like you. Starting again with new people who all want to be liked for what they are would be a relief to lots of women.

Finally, do you contribute on here, or other boards a great deal? Do you find that your posts are well received, and you are able to communicate and gel without any problems? Do you form any bonds with other posters, shared sense of humour, etc? If not, then it is something that you are saying/attitudes and opinions that are off-putting, or maybe you are perfectly inoffensive but boring. (sorry - hard to be honest without sounding mean, no harm intended) If yes, however, then it is obviously something in your body language or appearance that is alienating others. If you APPEAR needy or weird, unapproachable, no eye contact, or invade people's body space etc, always glum, irritable or nervous you can get help from a life coach/therapist/hypnosis with all those things. Very Good luck!

I know someone who is always present at mums and tots, PTA etc, but never present at anything she needs to actually be invited to. She's actually quite hard work, rather pessimistic, always looks stressed or flustered. She clearly wants to fit in but somehow her personality just alientates people and then she'll try too hard, which is creepy. Rule number one, don't try too hard! Definitely don't ask - that would be seriously off-putting. You can bet that the whole town will know that you put someone on the spot and embarrassed them, and then no-one will come near you at all!

Thinking about people I have known who may be in the same boat as you, I would say the following:

Don't be whiny, needy, always fed-up, or pessimistic

Don't be clingy, demanding, pushy. It freaks people out.

You say you are outwardly confident. Are you too confident? Do you hog the conversation, or brag, or lecture people?

Find new people. The old lot are clearly just not interested. Smile, and be positive. Start small. A friendly hello for a few mornings, then a brief chat, then a longer one. Move in by stealth. It might take months but don't blow it by telling someone your life story on day one and inviting them for supper on day 3. It's not normal.

Are you unusual in anyway? I'm being serious now. Eccentric? BO? Bad breath? Peculiar dress? Bizarre politics or religion? 40" bust and no bra? You don't need to be beautiful/conventional to make friends but it helps if you are at least a bit 'normal'.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ask people about themselves (not too nosey or personal)before you start telling them everything about you. People love to think that people are interested in them.

Try seeking out other people like yourself who always appear to be excluded. Don't just home in on anyone just because they are on their own, but really take time to analyse it. Are those people frequently on the outside of groups even though they know everyone? Ask on here if anyone is local(ish) and feels they can identify with what you say. Try to get three or four people together for coffee and see what happens. Even start a sub-group on here for people who can't make friends and maybe you could meet up. You are very brave to say what you've said, and I know there are loads of people who feel like you. Starting again with new people who all want to be liked for what they are would be a relief to lots of women.

Finally, do you contribute on here, or other boards a great deal? Do you find that your posts are well received, and you are able to communicate and gel without any problems? Do you form any bonds with other posters, shared sense of humour, etc? If not, then it is something that you are saying/attitudes and opinions that are off-putting, or maybe you are perfectly inoffensive but boring. (sorry - hard to be honest without sounding mean, no harm intended) If yes, however, then it is obviously something in your body language or appearance that is alienating others. If you APPEAR needy or weird, unapproachable, no eye contact, or invade people's body space etc, always glum, irritable or nervous you can get help from a life coach/therapist/hypnosis with all those things. Very Good luck!

Have just skimmed thread so apologies if I am repeating anyone.

I know someone who is a nice enough person but there is something that puts me off making an effort to be a closer friend to her.I think it may be her constant asking me round for coffee,dinner,please pop in sometime comments that make me feel pressured.
I almost want to avoid her now because I am embarrassed due to me not following up the invites.

When I have had coffee with her ages ago she did do a lot of moaning about making friends etc and the unrlying impression I got was that she wanted me to be her new best buddy.

It is definitely the constant needy pressure that makes me avoid her and it wasn't until I read this thread that I have realised that.

That's really kind of you thanks BoffinMum - will check it out

Ask yourself. WHY is it so important to be friends with this particular group of people?

It seems you have made a lot of effort, which may scare people off a bit. I always feel a bit suspicious if somebody seem too keen to talk to me, make coffee dates, etc.

I think sometimes groups are left best alone. In most circumstances they have known eeachother a while, and might not be that keen to invite a newbie into the fold. Particularly not somebody they only know from the school gate. Just because you have children, you may have nothing else in common.

I agree with the poster who says to look out for other individuals who might be lonely. Look outside this group.

Personally, I never looked at any of the school gate mums as potential friends. Idle chit chat, not more. But friendships will sometimes happen when you least expect it.

Can you try finding out who your child most like to play with, and arrange a few playdates? That is how my friendships with school gate mums got established. Through realizing that our kids played well together, and inviting in for a quick cuppa when picking up child. Arranging mutual outings over half term. Close to half term, you can say: "Tina/Mrs Jones, my son and your son play so well together, let me have him over a day on half term, he can play with Sammie, we can go to the park and the museum". Or something.

I just find that the best way to get beyond just school gate chatter is to offer something, which is NOT friendship, to start with. Friendships need to develop naturally. But by you taking in an interst, in your child, in their child, how they play together and offer to facilitate after school playing. BUT NOT turn your self in to free childminder or something.

Ok, I have rambled. sorry

Potatofactory, have you thought of doing something like the Springboard self-development as a means of reviewing your life and meeting some like minded people? I did it through work and overall it was quite helpful and I met people I wouldn't normally have done, some of whom I kept in touch with afterwards.

Springboard website

I feel down about my friendlessness a lot. I had one main friend in my twenties, and just didn't seem to make any more, then lived abroad, and I'm an acquired taste, I think, though I really can't help it!

I've just got in from a (work) party (colleague's 50th) and feel rubbish, as a few conversations / things underlined for me that I am peripheral, and just not that popular

Oh, the first point was that the main friendship I mentioned above has collapsed (though we haven't quite owned up to this) as we have become really different. So now I feel really isolated, in terms of real friends - someone I feel confident would be pleased to see me / would want to come out for a drink, etc, or whatever.

I wish I had made more effort at school / university to have a wider circle and to remain friends with people.

Anyway, making new friends is bloody hard - good luck! (wish me luck, too)

A couple of Pimms and I would definitely be capable of some catflap abuse.

You see Iammummynomates, you just have to dig around a little and you'll find your true likeminded pals. Madmentalbint, we're on our way round to test the catflaps .

Similar here - I'm alot less popular now people know I'm sending my DC's to a new school in September; now they know DD won't be in the same reception class as little Johnny, there seems no point in talking to me.

Also some people have stopped speaking to me because I am not sending DS to the same comprehensive school that all the other kids are going to ... I mean, really there's no point in worrying about this stuff.

However I noted with some satisfaction that the main protagonist has put on a lot of weight on her bottom recently. I cherish that knowledge in a childish but strangely satisfying way.

The woman who banned my DSs from the walking bus brought her kids around here for a birthday party and brunch and her DS SPAT IN THE FOOD and PUT SWEETIE WRAPPERS IN THE PARTY BAGS.

Need I say more. Her kids are a lot more 'orrible than mine!!

I concur with everyone else. School gates are not the place to make friends. Try volunteering in your local community, even if it's helping out at the local pre-school or even join a class.
Your true friend is out there for you and when the time is right you will find each other
I say that because when my DD1 was a baby i tried about 6 different mother and baby groups but they all made me feel left out and were quite unfriendly even after i had made an effort to even help with the teas!
Then i was about to give it all up (baby groups), and i decided to try one other place (Church based group) and i arrived at the same time as another lady who had a baby girl the same age as DD1.
We never looked back after that time! Been my best friend ever, even though she has been living in France for the last 4yrs, she is finally coming back to the UK and will live just down the road from me.
The circle is closed

"To be fair, mine are the kind who get out of catflaps."

Well they'd fit in well at my house then

That reminds me of when I was asked not to bring my DD(4 at the time) to ballet anymore 'as she was disruptive.'I think it was the wellies DD insisted on wearing that offended the ballet teacher

Oh, I have had this type of comment about my DSs!! We were in fact banned from the walking bus for similar purported reasons. I had forgotten about that. Only the woman who got us banned wouldn't tell me herself but made the HT ring me up, and I think the real reason was because they knew we had an AP and reckoned "Why are we walking this woman's kids to school when she has someone to do it?" To be fair the AP had volunteered to help with the walking bus so our household was taking a turn, but they refused to let her because she wasn't a UK citizen (she was Swiss and as we know the Swiss are well dodgy ). So at the root it was cliques again.

By the way mummy, after the comments about my ds's, I made the brave attempt to befriend other mums who had similar age/sex dcs and now luckily have a really nice new friend who is keen to do the same sort of things as me as our kids have the same sort of needs. Not sure if that helps at all, I was lucky there. x

BoffinMum, "your ds's are very bright and needed a lot of stimulation", was the (polite) answer. They're close together and a lot of the other mums had only one at home or had girls so I think these two loud boys upset the quiet coffee mornings and picnics! To be fair, mine are the kind who get out of catflaps.

Another group of friends found me competitive which I heard second hand, that would explain the lack of invites too . I was mortified to hear this and justified it by reasoning that both my ds's were very early talkers/walkers and I used to repeat things they said as I found it funny or because I was so proud. Needless to say I don't go on about my kids to people as much now and am much more popular . Another factor was that a lot of these other people had family nearby and I don't (my mum died and my father lives abroad) so I think they got emotional and social support that I lacked and maybe I was more needy, not just for adult company but also for people to share my (normal) parental pride.

Phew, wish you'd never asked? Anyway, back to the OP...

You cannot ask them.

Apart form anything else, you will not get an honest reply.

If someone who I had talked to a few times but didn't gel with and didn't want to be friends with asked me outright why I didn't want to be friends with them, I would not tell them the truth. I would make up some answer that wouldn't upset them.

So there is no point asking them.

Jellyrolly, do you mind me asking what her answer was? Was it trivial stuff or were you actually getting something very wrong?

I rang a friend last week who had neglected me for nearly ten years!! I asked her if I had put my foot in it somehow, and she said no, that various massive things had happened in her life, and she had to prune her social diary a lot and just strip it all back to a few local friends for the duration for her own sanity. I did understand actually, and it's not a huge problem, although I have missed her.

There's lots of good advice here but I just wanted to say that I feel for you to and can empathise.

I have had enough good firends in the past to know that it's not necessarily 'me'. But, I moved to a new area about two years ago and despite being invovled in nursery life i can't say I have really 'made friends' with the vast majority. recently I've met one lovely woman and I consider her a friend. However, the vast majority are already in established 'groups' and have lived in the area for a good while. They have their circle and their coffee dates and I know that life is busy and often people don't mean to be excluding but just don't find time for anything/anyone extra. It takes effort and some people just don't have it in them when they already have plenty of conacts.
When I've spoken to others about how I've settled in (or not!) they have always said, 'Oh, wait 'till your son starts school - you'll meet lots of people then' So I'm open to that but also realise that the pattern may repeat itself! He starts in Septemebr so I'll tell you how I get on. Although, one helpful thing the school did was to encourage parents to send a spreadsheet around with their namens and contact numbers and emails so we could feel less isolated.
I would try to widen your social life a bit and move away from focussing on this very tight group. And try not to see it as a failure on your part that you haven't 'conquered' them. Life is bigger and broader and friendship, like love, often comes in the most unexpected places. Good luck and shrug it off if you can. x

Dont ask them! You will still have to see them daily.



I think bright and breezy is good, also taking the leap and initiating contact, and not being put off with a few no or maybe answers.

Katisha is right - the school gate mirrors the playground and can be childish.

You sound like a sensitive person which is a great quality but sometimes a burden. You should cherish this quality, think of what you would miss without it, but accept that others are perhaps less sensitive.

Most people are thinking and talking about themselves most of the time, that's just human, so don't imagine they are giving you or any of your imagined misgivings much thought.

If no-one from the school gate wants to come for coffee with you then take yourself for a coffee, a large cake and a good book/mag/paper and be thankful you are kinder than those who have upset you.

Confidence takes time and the school gate can send everyone back to a time when the terrors of fitting in were excrutiating and everything is heightened.

I once asked a trusted friend why me and my children seemed to be excluded from the usual things and she told me . It was excrutiating for both of us. I wouldn't recommend asking!

BCNS is onto something. I have seen this friendly, breezy approach work well with different people.

If it's any comfort, I don't usually have problems finding people to make friends with, because I am a total tart in that sense, but even I have my moments of insecurity from time to time. It's best just to keep looking friendly and pleasant, and give it time, IMO.

I would go along with what some people have said about approaching individuals rather than groups, for example suggesting a joint swimming outing or offering to take someone else's kid to the cinema on a rainy Saturday morning, or something like that.

dont ask and next time your at the school gates-smile but remember your better than them and you dont need them.get out a bit more to clubs,new parks,take up a new hobby or voloutary work.im sure that in no time at all you'll have a packed diary of meetups!

where abouts are you?

Mummy - I know others have said this, but to me they don't sound like people worth knowing so you won't be missing out on much.

I only have 1 good friend (sad but true). I believe the quality of friends is more important than the amount. True if you have a wide circle of friends there are more things to do but eventually you tire of people slagging off whichever member of the friend-circle is not present at that time and you start to wonder if they slag you off when you are not there.

My honest advice? Get a few good books, magazines, DVDs etc etc and enjoy your own company, just 'being' IYSWIM. You find friends when you least expect it and sometimes you get one that you just can't shake off no matter how many times you don't return their calls (sorry went off on a tangent there!!)

I'm sorry you're in this position, it must be lonely for you. But I echo what the others say in that confronting people with: 'why don't you like me?' won't help.

If there is a reason they're not going to tell you and you'll alienate yourself even more.

It could just be that this lot are a cliquey stand offish group. But if you've never managed to make friends in other areas of your life: school, college, uni, work place then it does suggest there are issues with the way you conduct yourself or come across.

Have you previously been able to form friendships?

The school gate is an alien world - particularly ours - maybe it's the same one?

I smile, occasionally pass some bland comment and, now its hot, count the number of tattoos.

Also concur with all the excellent advice on here which is to find friends through shared common interests YOU have, not through women who spawned about the same time you did.

I can politely chat random shit to anyone, I have the confidence to start a convo with some random person, I have many friends.....but only a handful I would class as true friends, an outsider recently called us too clicky, we don't think we're too clicky, we're just going about our normal business. It doesnt mean we dont like the people that we dont know as well and it doesnt mean we dont want to be friendly with them, but it isnt our responsibility or fault if they dont have friends.

Why do people immediately jump to the conclusion that someone doesnt like them if they dont take up their offer of a cuppa? Thats my point about paranoia.

piscesmoon mentions boundaries.....everyone needs boundaries in place otherwise a happy healthy life is impossible.

Oh, how sad Iammummmy

Can I ask what has happened to your old friends - you say you've had good friends but not for a long time, did you move and lose contact?

I have never personnally experienced that kind of exclusion in the playground, but a friend of mine did with some mums when she moved house, and she is one of the most friendly, outgoing people I know. So don't take it too personally - perhaps they just don't realise you would like to be friends. Or maybe they are just not very nice

can I ask why you want to be friends with these people? they don't actually sound very nice toward you imo.

your best bet is to go and do something that you like.. evening class, gym , art centre, etc etc..

smile.. don't over chat.. but chat enough.. and the big thing is you have 2 ears and one mouth for a reason.( i mean this in a nice way).. people feel far more confident when they are talking about themselves.. ( but don't pry.. just the normal.. how was you hols, that's a lovely top etc)
the key is when people do this with you as well.. when they ask you about you, rather than just answer your questions...
If it looks like there are pauses in the convo, I make an excuse and move on.. " oh, lovely chatting.. but I must pop and see.. so and so... big smile on leaving head up etc etc."

It's all about the "show" and people will naturally follow a social leader.. rather than an asker.

hope some of that makes sense.. and have fun trying some of it out.

just a quick thought - and apologies if this has been said (I haven't read the whole thread) but it seems to me that there is a "group" that is already well established. Groups can be quite protective of their group identity. you know the party where you invited 10 couples, and then changed the timing so they could make it? is it possible that this might have been viewed as you trying to become "part of the group" - rather than trying to be friendly to individuals because you like them and feel you have something in common with them? Trying to get into a group is, imho, not the best way to make friends. people behave differently in groups (sometimes badly) but they have a group bond and sometimes they like to keep it exclusive. starting small - individual friendships, individual coffees, might be a better approach. also activities - I've made schoolgate friends through running.

please don't think there's something wrong with you. but try to find something to boost your confidence. good luck.

It isn't a question of compassion-it is the truth and much better to say it. I have shown compassion and I couldn't cope; everyone needs boundries. For my own well being I will avoid it in future.
I would be very embarrassed if someone asked what was wrong with them because most likely the answer is nothing at all, except that they are wanting more than you want to give.
I just go around being friendly to everyone, old ladies, shop assistants-anyone I come across-sometimes it develops into friendship and sometimes it doesn't.

I forgot to say I also wouldnt ask anyone "why arent you friends with me?" even the mother of my ds's friend who is rude to me every day and tries to keep her son away from mine - Its her loss

Also another way to meet people - go on a course: sewing, french, cooking, photography or sport - I would love to join our town Netball team for example

I havent read whole thread so I am sorry if I repeat what others have said

I have had this problem in the past. Generally I think it happens because people genuinely dont realise that someone amongst them lacks a friend/someone to even say hello to
Also often people just cant be bothered to make new friends

I have found one of the best ways is to walk to and from school each day - my two/three best 'school' friends atm both walk everyday which gives us a good chance to get to know each other

Another way is by working/volunteering - I volunteer for Homestart and have loads of friends amongst the other volunteers

There are particular parents at my lo's school that make a point of ignoring me everyday....... I consider it their loss

Its nothing to do with compassion, its just a fact that people think like that, whether we like it or not thats how people are.

Personally I will make friends with anyone, thats not to say I will become responsible for their happiness and wellbeing. Paranoid, desperate and needy people arent healthy people to be around, they suddenly get something they haven't had before and deperately cling onto it ie smother, they want to be a part of everything you do and leave you with no breathing space, most the time they dont realise they're doing this then if you say something they get upset and think no one likes them and they'll never have friends. Its a vicious circle and they need some kind of confidence building help in order to break the cycle, there was once a time when I showed too much compassion......boy have I learnt that this is no way to live unless you like being pissed all over.

Can I just ?

"Personally I wouldnt ask them why they dont want to be your friend, this would make you come across as paranoid, desperate and needy and not many people want to be friends with paranoid, desperate and needy people as generally they're not healthy people to be around."

If you don't mind me asking, where is your compassion?

I agree that this sort of thing is not at all uncommon. Some people just seem to be very "sociable" and click with everyone, but usually in a rather superficial way.
I think if you are not like this, then you will not fit in with a group of people who is.

And I do not think this is a bad thing!

You need to find people who you really want to be friends with, people who you actually get on well with, who you enjoy spending time with. And then the friendship will come.

To some of us, finding a good friend is comparable to finding the right man (or woman) - there has to be the right chemistry, and it has to be recipricated. Whereas others, they have lots and lots of "dates2, but don't necessarily have a relationship with any of them...am I making sense?
I accepted a long time ago that I was never going to be a part of those big, cliquey groups. I know lots of people who I chat to and say hi, but it doesn't go much beyond that. I also have a couple of proper, real friends. Unfortunately, most of them are abroad, and it was only about a year ago that I finally made a proper new friend - having been "friendless" in that sense for years and years.

I don't know if that makes you feel any better, but fwiw, I think you sound lovely and just need to find the right person/people to be friends with.

This sort of thing is awful, and sadly I think it's probably quite common to be honest.

I would say I am a shy person but I've made myself go out of my way to chat to people, just small talk, but I also get to the 'shall we meet for coffee' stage and then it all fizzles out.

Sorry I don't have any words of wisdom, the other posters have put loads of useful info, I just wanted to say you're not the only one...

I'd like to give it from a confident persons point of view (this is just a different view from the other side and I am in no way trying to provoke a bad reaction)

I make friends easily....I havent always been this way, having spent 11 years in an abusive dv relationship I can honestly say every ounce of confidence I had was battered out of me. Rebuilding confidence and expanding your social life takes time, especially if for whatever reason you feel isolated from the world. Its easy to look at other peoples close friendships and feel jealous that you're an outsider, chances are these people have been friends for years and have no idea you feel as you do, and more to the point they're not doing anything wrong they're just getting on with their own lives which is their right to do so.

The best thing to do imo is to try and find a confidence building course or something similar in your local area, these will be full of people in similar situations and the people you meet on there can be good friends.
You can only help yourself on this one, you have to make the changes necessary to expand your social life.
Personally I wouldnt ask them why they dont want to be your friend, this would make you come across as paranoid, desperate and needy and not many people want to be friends with paranoid, desperate and needy people as generally they're not healthy people to be around.

Why would you be seeing them ever school day for 7 years? Do some of you really not let your kids walk home until they start secondary school?
We have walking buses in our area as well for kids needing some supervision walking home because they live further away, but my kids school is just down the street and they started walking themselves at about P4/P5. When they were smaller I was only usually at the school a couple of minutes before the kids came out. Do some of you get ther half an hour inadvance that you have all this chatting time and notice all the other stuff that went over my head?

if you have no friends, though, then this isn't a school gates problem. where are your old pals in this? how easy do you find it to click with people otherwise?

I understand excatly where you come from and would agree with other replies that to ask 'what is wrong with me?' 'why won't you be my friend' would sound a bit strange to people (especially as the groups you are desrcibing do not sound the most accepting!)

I suspect that individually the people at the school gates will chat to you but as a group they behave quite differently (and generally not in a good way!)

I was experiencing just the same feelings the other day. I chat to many people and have, in the past, met up etc but it never goes much further than a one off coffee.

I made a conscious decision that I would make friendships elsewhere but be open to the possibility that it may happen at the school gate in time. I would be friendly and true to yourself as someone has said you will be there for 7 years (more if you have more than one child) but that is all.

Good luck and I am sure that many other parents feel the same......

i have one person who i call a friend, she is someone i want to have a conversation with, who i go to when OH and i are rubbing each other up the wrong way, we get drunk together knowing neither of us is going to be bitching about how drunk the other was the next day. we only see each other about once a fortnight, sometimes less but she is my friend. she used to be my best friend but then she met her husband and i met OH and he is now my best friend, that doesnt mean she is less of a friend but that i have a closer more enjoyable relationship with OH. i also see my parents and sister quite alot, not friends in the traditional sense but we enjoy each other's company.

what im trying to say is that i am friends with these people for one main reason, i ENOY being with them. i am not with them so i have someone to go to coffee with, or natter at the school gates with. these people all give me something which i return, they give me time and understanding and respect.

the women you talk about havent shown you any of these things. you will never be true riends with these women.

have a look at you existing relationships, is there someone you might be overlooking? have you got a cousin or brother thats always looking advice (which you might consider as whingeing)? perhaps all they want is someone to listen. not to fix it. IYSWIM.

i dont have many friends, and they dont all run in the same circles. in fact my parents are the only two of my friends that socialise together really. but what i have with eac of them individually is meaningful and enjoyable.

i think you need to keep trying...don't forget..you're going to be seeing these people everyday for 7 years!....oblomov....not sure i understand you?..most people make friends because they're thrown together ie; at school/uni/work.....how else to you meet people?

When you REALLY think about it, you realise that you would never chose to be friends with these people.
So they have a 5 yr old who has just started reception as well then ? AND ? SO ?
Likewise with my PN group ladies. so lovely. 5 of us. meet every week. would I chose to be friends with these ladies, if I say.... met them at a party ? Probably not.
There you go !!

Don't ask, it wouldn't help. You would just come across as over-needy and under-confident.

One way to make people respond better to you is to subtly mirror their own behaviour - smile when they smile, move and talk in a similar fashion etc. These are cues that people unconsciously pick up on in people that they "get on with". But don't be overt about it or they might think you are taking the piss. It is a standard technique used in all sorts of situations, designed to put the other person at their ease.

The school gate is definitely NOT the place to be trying to make friends. It has a similar dynamic to the playground on the other side of the gate!

Over the 5 years I have been turning up (not every day as I work) I have finally identified a couple of people who I more or less click with but only for chatting while standing in the park.

I get my adult company elsewhere - mostly work actually.

I think the school gates is the worst place to make friends because there is absolutely nothing holding you together except the coincidence of having dcs at the school. In the past I have made friends through work, studying or houseshares. In all those cases you automatically tend to have things in common (even the houseshares due to similar lifestyle and/or work/study).

I am one who chats to random strangers out of habit. But finding really good friends - that's a whole other ball game. The school mums may just not be the right circle for you. TBH I usually make friends easily and don't give it much thought - but I am at how out of place and frankly, excluded, I feel wrt the schoolgate. It's like I've gone to an alien planet!

some people just click socially - i am not one of them. my sil - just chats to every one - men in vans, women at school, people walking down the street - she even included a woman at the pedestrian crossing in our conversation the other day.

i envy her this.

I understand. I have few friends. And it is a mystery to me why. I like myself and make a great friend, so there must be something that i am missing here - people obviously see me differetnly to how I see myself.
The school gates 'nonsense' , came as a shock to me, and ds only started reception in sept, I naively thought i would find a 'bosom buddy'. I talk to quite a few. make them laugh. Have been invited for coffee. these aquaintances are all very nice.
But I have also seen some nastiness- this was a shock to me, I naively thought that everything would be nice - how wrong I was. and I know one mum for whom her close group blow hot and cold. This has opened my eyes. I enjoy it. But take it for what it is.
Try new ladies. Take the plunge. Start conversations with new people. But also, give it some thought as to why this is so important to you. and that in itself might help to change your perspective on it all.

When i was in a similar possition,(freind dumped me for no apparent reason,and left me feeling pretty shite and worthless) i joined homestart.
I became a volunteer, so i made freinds with people on the course, and then i also became freinds with the mums of the families i supported.
Now i run a mums and toddler group, (volunteraly) both my kids are older and at school so i needed something to do and meeded to make new friends and its worked really well.
Perhaps you could try some volunteer work?
The cows at the school gates are NOT worth your time and energy, they sound like selfish bitches to me, and very unkind, you are better than that, now you need to go prove it!

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I asked someone that, who used to be a good friend, and then just stopped coming round. I asked her outright if I'd done anything to upset her, and she said no. I've just had to accept that she was no longer interested.

I've now decided if thats how people treat me, not to bother. But what I HAVE found is that people slightly older than me (10 years or so), are more friendly, they're just not at the school gates.

What about a college course? I did a GCSE one evening a week a couple of years back and made two really good friends there. If you do something like that you already have something in common.

I was in exactly the same position as you a while ago although i knew why people didn't want to be my friend. (dp is an alchoholic, recovering now, but i told one person and then she rather kindly told the entire mothering population at the school gates....)

I don't bother at all with the school gates now, when i am there i smile sweetly, say a vague hello and that's it. I usually stand with my ipod on whilst waiting.

What i did do though was to join a new pilates class. It has taken three terms but we are all going out for a drink next week and i have been invited to someones birthday party as well. Yay me!

I think that school gates are just a pretty crap place to try to make friends, people do tend to be in groups, ie they had their children at the same time and went to the same antenatal groups, or they all new each other pre-kids ad-infinitum.

No, don't ask, it's a bad idea to show your vulnerabilities so openly. I completely agree with Longtalljosie and others. Stop trying so hard with this crew. See if there are other mothers who aren't mated up at the school gate. And focus your energies on activities outside school. Some of us are slow burn friendship type of people - we grow on people - and don't make friends just out of convenience (having kids same age) but out of a genuine sharing of interests/values. Maybe that's you. Or maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. No harm in trying mumsnet or netmums meetups - as at least the people who turn up to these will be likely to want new friends.

If these people are confiding in you about marriage etc, then I doubt you are doing anything socially "wrong" - you are evidently seen as approachable, good listener and trustworthy.

My friends have always been based around my hobbies, apart from my old friends who sadly all live several hours away.
I think asking people why they don't want to be your friend appears needy and is unlikely to get an honest answer. I think finding good friends as you get older is harder, mainly because we are fussier and busier. I've never done the people from school gates round for coffee thing, but then I've always worked part time.

If they are unkind enough to plan social events in front of you, and they don't have the manners to invite you along too, then they're probably not worth getting friendly with. I'd look elsewhere for meaningful friendships. I doubt very much that there is anything wrong with you at all - you just haven't met the right people yet. I wouldn't ask them about it either as you might come across as a bit whiney and clingy. Let them get on with it and concentrate on finding real friends.

I'm sure it's not you. I think that as people get older they have a tendency to not be bothered with making new friends and just move about in the same old cliques groups. Then when you have a newborn you go through another phase of making some new friends. But then stop again. And bear in mind that just because someone has lots of friends, those friendships aren't necessarily meaningful. Quality not quantity IYSWIM?

If you do want to make friends, maybe leave the school-gaters and try to find friends through something you have in common. It can sound cheesy but it's more likely to work! What do you like? Books, painting, writing, walking, family history, wine, knitting, travel - you can often find local groups for these things. I don't know if you live in a city/suburb/town/village, which will obviously make a difference but I'm sure they'll be something out there for you.

And keep smiling! It will happen.

i don't know if they do this on mumsnet(am new here)but i know netmums have a section called'local meet a mum' or something like that.You meet someone in the same area as yourself,which would be good.plus,then you know they are also in the same boat as you re actively seeking frienship.I don't know how old your children are(although you mention school gates)but i made some great friends through the nct whilst i was pregnant.My step sister however,had had her baby buut was having trouble meeting mums in the area(london)so joined,and now has some mummy buddies...maybe one of these avenues would be worth exploring

I think that it is quite common. Asking is completely the wrong thing to do-being needy puts people off. I would just accept that you are not going to get beyond the aquaintance stage and enjoy it for what it is, at least you have people to talk to at the school gate. I would join something that you are interested in, not child related and meet people that way.
I always found it difficult with parents of DCs, those I liked often had DCs who had nothing in common with my DCs and I often had nothing in common with parents of DCs friends.

I have an online friend like you, well to HER she has the same issue, when I first MET her in person I realised she never, ever smiles. She is funny in writing but in the flesh, feck moi she looks and is pretty sour.
I am not sayng YOU are, but are you a smiler?
I really feel for you, I am now on the outside of a group of friends that I kinda started, because I complained about one of the girls shouting at, kicking & hitting my daughter........ so I am now excluded from everything. Which is shit because individually, all the other mums say the mean girl is nasty & a handfull & trouble etc.... but they obviously like her mum more than they like me!
But i do agree with the other too, look for people on their own, chat to them. One of my other friends is beautiful, 10 yrs youger than the rest of us, yet found it really hard to make friends as people assumed she wouldnt be friendly.
I dont know what my point is! But hugs to you, I'll be your friend!

There's obviously a group of people there who don't deserve you. It's unfortunate, as clearly these are the people you see most frequently and it would be good if it worked out... but if they're excluding you, nuts to them.

They're in no doubt, I wouldn't imagine, that you'd like to be closer to them. And if they're not responding, you just need to leave it. People do pick up when someone's needy. That's not a criticism, and it's not fair when someone's lonely that people don't always step in, that in fact they step away.

But - their opinion doesn't really count. It's not you. It's them. But that doesn't matter because they're not the only people in the world and no-one appointed them judge and jury of your self-worth.

How many people are there in your DC's class? There will be other parents. And if not, you'll have to find other ways of expanding your social circle. It will be harder, but not impossible. Good luck.

Dont ask. If they don't like you they are not worth it. Its not you its them. I like you already and we have only just met . Next time you pick up the children take a look around, really look at peoples faces, there are a lot of people alone out there even in the groups. If you know what I mean ?

You need to be the brearer of juicy gossip - then everybody will be your firend!

I know that's flippent - but I'd love to know the answer to your post too!

I am outwardly a very confident person. I am already on the PTA and i help out at all the events.

I've had good friends but not for a long time.

I've invited lots of people over in the past few years, both for coffee, and then I decided to have a party and invited about ten couples over. I got no's from all of them, including one who said "Oh no, I think we might be doing something that night." so I changed the date and suggested about three or four different dates, and again no-one was available.

I don't think I would really ask them, as someone said it does appear a bit needy. I just wish I knew why though.

you are not alone I feel the same, some people are just naturally confident and seem to attract friends, I am not one of thpose people

tbh though I think asking people why they dont like you might sound a bit needy and wierd.

no advice what else to do though sorry - although could you join the PTA?

Oh poor you. No, don't ask them. It is most likely that you need to work on your confidence, rather than there being anything wrong with you. When you say they back off when you invite them for coffee, how many people has this really happened with? Are you sure it's not just your fear/perception working on you?
Have you had good friends in the past? What has changed?

I know this has been done to death on here, but I have no friends. There are people I talk to at the school gates from time to time, everyone knows who I am, but they all have their own circles of friends and I am just not a part of that and don't seem to be able to become a part of that.

And thing is, I don't know why. I have never fallen out with anyone, people do talk to me, they just won't cross the boundary between chatting at the school gates and moving on to more meaningful friendship, i.e. coffee, or coming round in any way shape or form. I have been there for some of them on occasion, they've chatted to me about their personal lives, some have confided about their marriages, but as soon as I extend myself and try to say, invite them round, they back off completely and will sometimes avoid me altogether. And it's not because they have such busy social lives, they are constantly round each other's houses for impromptu bbq's/drinks etc, in fact I've been standing amongst them as they plan their evenings out together, to which I am not invited.

So given they clearly don't consider me too be a friend, I've thought about asking them what is so terrible about me that it puts them off, so I would at least know, and can then change so I don't put people off in future.

IBU? Or would that seem ve childish?

I just don't know what to do really. I don't think I'm a bad person, but I've always struggled so much to make friends that there has to come a point when you admit that it can't just be that all the people I meet are horrible, that there must be something about me that puts people off. I just don't know what it is, and no-one has ever told me.