Women only train carriages? really????

[TheoriginalLEM]

So, i quite liked Jeremy Corbyn as a runner for opposition leadership. Down to earth, gritty etc...

Then he has the idea of women only train carriages to avoid sexual harrassment? What next? Women not allowed in pubs in case we have our sensitivities hurt hearing the odd F word?

Its a brilliant idea, why waste all our energies on trying to change attitudes, just keep the poor loves in their own safe little carriages. Will they be painted pink with little make up mirrors on the back of the seats?

Don't stop there - we can abolish sexual harrasment in the workplace by having women only offices. Of course certain jobs have a predominantly male workforce so women are going to have to step down from those career choices and stick to something more feminine instead....

Foot. Shot. Self. himself!

He didn't have the idea though.

Well i know that! A politician having his own idea? Im not that daft ;)

It is I think a way to disempower women. Not protect them.

Not his idea. Also, lots of women would fucking love women only carriages, do you know how common sexual assualt is on public transport?
I don't think you should be so flippant about it f you're lucky enough to have been subject to it.

So why are you so cross with him then?

Agree it's treating the symptom and not the cause. Maybe if a politician starts seriously addressing rape culture I'll start listening. Until then, segregating women because we can't trust men to not attack us whilst we're going about out business?? Seriously? They need to think hard about why women only carriages are even being talked about in the first place.

It's a dreadful idea. I'm a woman, not a victim!

Also really common? I've never known it or seen it or heard of it

Urethra, I have been subject to sexual assault in a train carriage, yes. I am not being flippant at all. I don't actually care whos idea it is. I am not cross with Jeremy Corbyn, i just think he would be quite foolish to run with it.

They have women only train carriages in India. Is that really somewhere whose gender politics we want to emulate?

I think it would lead to more victim blaming, "Well, she could have sat in the women's only carriage..." It's also only practical on certain lines at certain times, can you imagine it working at rush hour on a four carriage train?!

Discopanda has it right. Anyone not sat in these carriages would then be 'asking for it'?

YANBU. Women should be able to travel free from harassment but this is not the solution and I doubt it will increase safety. In many ways I would quite like woman only carriages because I suspect they would be more pleasant and less smelly. However the message they send out of women being frail and vulnerable is not one of sexual equality so I oppose them.

I'm not that old but remember separate men's and women's waiting rooms on platforms (usually relics in old stations, before they were modernized)

I would be distressed to see us returning to Victorian ideas about gender segregation

Then you should be a bit more understanding and a lot less sarcastic about it. If you don't like the idea, fine, but talk about properly.

If India has them its because they bloody need them, and I'd be using one if I was over there. The question we should be asking is why has the idea come up? What the fuck is wrong that it should even be a notion? Why is there any idea at all that woman aren't safe on public transport, and what are we going to do about it?

Simply stating that we find it offensive to be thought of as victims doesn't help much. And actually quite nasty to those people who have been victims (you're perpetuating the very stereotypes that you are pissed off about by making it Other)

I'm so glad he's shot himself in in the foot, at last. May not be his idea, but it's associated with him. Hopefully the rest of his policies will be actually scrutinised now, instead of being hailed as some second coming .

Practically, they'd be difficult to run. Imagine a late-night Tube or local train. A few pissed-up lads are going to identify the women-only coach and start 'having a laugh', slinging jokes about lesbians and 'try this for size, love.' Each coach would have to have a guard to keep blokes out, otherwise no-one would feel confident using them. And what have rail companies been busy getting rid of ever since privatisation? It could only happen as part of a wholesale re-nationalisation of the trains - in fact, public transport generally, because what's the point of protecting women on trains if they then get onto a 'mixed' bus with no conductor?

I would welcome having women only carriages as an option.

As a teen I was sexually assaulted on public transport and I have been verbally intimidated by groups of drunk men many times on trains (live nearish a large football stadium).

I would use a woman only carriage. Of course they should not be compulsory and women should be free to sit in other parts of the train if they choose but as an option for those who want them on some trains (eg: especially routes which service football stadiums) I don't see the problem.

I do agree that the bigger goal should be tackling the behaviour of those men who do think it's okay to harass and assault women and that women-only carriages is not the solution to the problem of sexual harassment on trains but for me whilst harassment is still prevalent the option of sitting away from men would be a welcome option.

Alternatively I would at least welcome alcohol-free carriages as in my experience it's more often drunk men (and on some occasions women) who are acting in a way to intimidate or harass other passengers than sober ones.

I think the idea that women should continue to be harrassed and (quite often) assaulted on public transport until we succeed in convincing mysogynist and predatory men to change their ways is shit, quite frankly. How about improving safety whilst challenging the attitudes that lead to them being necessary.

I would use a womens only carriage on the 9.47 to London but I would on late night tube and rail services.

The question we should be asking is why has the idea come up? What the fuck is wrong that it should even be a notion? Why is there any idea at all that woman aren't safe on public transport, and what are we going to do about it?

Thank you Urethra for articulating why I don't like this idea at all. The answer lies in education and parenting and will take beyond my lifetime I suspect.

How on earth will they enforce it? Think about late at night, when a bloke comes out of the pub and thinks about women. He knows there are women in a 'women only' carriage , right? Possibly alone? Long time between stations?

It will not stop attacks.

Gender apartheid because men can't behave like human beings. I think not something I want for me or my daughters ( or son!)

What he actually said

The excellent work of individuals, campaigns and groups like Everyday Sexism and Stop Street Harassment have highlighted just how prevalent street harassment is and the extent to which many women feel uncomfortable, anxious, and unsafe just going about their daily routines.

If elected Labour Leader I would work with women and women’s organisations to take steps to raise awareness and tackle it. As a start I am putting forward the following proposals:

Working together
Call regional summits of local authorities, universities, transport authorities, police, women’s organisations and campaigns to stop street harassment to discuss practical steps that will tackle this.

Elected representatives
Encourage local authorities to appoint cabinet positions for women’s safety.
Create a ministerial role for women’s safety.

Police hotline
Sexual assault and harassment - such as being followed, groped, and public exposure is under reported. Many women feel intimidated, violated, too upset and worried that they will not be taken seriously by the police. I would look into setting up a hotline, which is run by police but dedicated to reporting harassment and assault.

This would be staffed 24/7 by women, and to which women could text or call to report with the confidence that they will not be dismissed. If a home visit is needed for a statement, this should also be done by women.

Public awareness
Run an advertising campaign on public transport, billboards, TV and cinemas aimed at combating street sexism, and raise awareness of the effects of street harassment.

Consultation on public transport
Some women have raised with me that a solution to the rise in assault and harassment on public transport could be to introduce women only carriages. My intention would be to make public transport safer for everyone from the train platform, to the bus stop to on the mode of transport itself. However, I would consult with women and open it up to hear their views on whether women-only carriages would be welcome - and also if piloting this at times and modes of transport where harassment is reported most frequently would be of interest.

Licensing
Legislate for tougher rules on what licence holders need to do in case of assault on their premises. Include reporting assault and how to respond to assault in the procedure to get a licence.

Tackle drive-by harassment
Encourage the roll-out to other areas of the successful Bradford scheme to tackle the harassment of women, and encourage police to use public order laws and legislation protecting people from harassment to target suspects.

Personally I don't have a problem with consulting with women about issue that effect women. They way it's been reported makes it sound like he's forcing women onto special dainty carriages rather than responding to a proposal made by women. What's he supposed to do when Some women have raised with me that a solution to the rise in assault and harassment on public transport could be to introduce women only carriages?
Tell them to go fuck themselves or say he will open up the discussion?

Ridiculous idea, and I say this as someone who has been hit on by drunk blokes on the train before (lovely bloke with his girlfriend told him to back off, and offered to swap seats with me). If they want to do something useful, they should bring in some rules about people being drunk and intimidating on trains, that makes me feel far more uncomfortable on trains than having to sit with (gasp) men.