...to feel like I'm on a one woman crusade.

[GroupieGirl]

Firstly, I'm well aware that this particular crusade is championed by many women and men!

But, my God, I have been surrounded by ignorant bigots this week. There was the taxi driver who seemed friendly at first, but became surly and monosyllabic when I not only refused to agree that "this gay thing is disgusting" but had the temerity to argue with him that, in my opinion, what goes on behind closed doors between two or more consenting adults has absolutely no effect whatsoever on him.

Then there was the sandwich marker in Subway who asked whether the kid's pack had ordered was for a boy or a girl. I queried why this mattered and was told that they had specific bags for boys and girls. When I pushed him, he conceded that he meant pink and blue. Looked at me like I was one of Those Wimmin...then handed me a green bag.

By the time I reached the card shop and was confronted by a particularly eye-grabbing card which said something like "Reasons why men like BLOW JOBS" I was all out of fight. My daughter is four, and unlikely to be able to read 'blow jobs'...but I really wouldn't have wanted to have to explain it to her if she were a little older.

Please tell me that the world is not completely populated by ignorant morons?!?!

And, if you would, reassure me that I'm not the only person who gets bolshy and challenges things with which I disagree?

[Proclean]

Sorry but there are very many ignorant people out there and we have to suck it up or remain permanently angry! :-)

Just be glad you're not one of 'em!

[makeminea6x]

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good [men] do nothing."

[hiddenhome]

YANBU

[BlackeyedSusan]

it is exhausting.

I would have asked for two pink bags. They both like pink. When ex complains I remind him that his best mate's favourite colour is pink too. he certainly would not go picking a fight with his best mate...

[AtrociousCircumstance]

YANBU. all those things would have enraged me too.

[NellyNoodle1]

No YANBU I delight my DP no end by getting in a tis over such matters - however I joined in a campaign a few weeks back about a t-shirt that was horrid (involved children and pole dancing!) and wrote an email to the company - I got a reply stating that the t-shirt was a mistake, had upset a lot of people, thanks for me input and it would be pulled from sale. Probably hundreds did the same but I had part in that and together things can be changed - check out Child Eyes on Facebook and No More Page 3 if things like that upset you - joining in the fight will help you more than getting wound up.

If no one questions these things - nothing will ever change.

Go You.

[VioletHare]

there was the sandwich marker in Subway who asked whether the kid's pack had ordered was for a boy or a girl. I queried why this mattered and was told that they had specific bags for boys and girls. When I pushed him, he conceded that he meant pink and blue. Looked at me like I was one of Those Wimmin

This just screams 'arsehole' to me. Seriously? You 'pushed' someone working at subway about the colour of the bag? Do you really think he gave a shit?

[SquigglySquid]

Then there was the sandwich marker in Subway who asked whether the kid's pack had ordered was for a boy or a girl. I queried why this mattered and was told that they had specific bags for boys and girls. When I pushed him, he conceded that he meant pink and blue. Looked at me like I was one of Those Wimmin...then handed me a green bag.

I don't see why this is a big deal? It's pretty obvious when ordering happy meals or any other kids meal that girls will get girl toys and vise versa. If your child wants a certain toy or color just tell them. I've never had a problem getting the toy I wanted.

The subway worker really couldn't give a shit about what color your little snowflake eats their lunch out of.

[ThatBloodyWoman]

Yanbu, but for the sake of your own stress levels I wouldn't go head on at everything, or you'll burn out.

[SiennaBlake]

There's a difference between asking if it's a kids pack for a boy or girl and if someone would like a blue pack or a pink pack.

[VioletHare]

Yes but chances are Sienna that the subway worker has been told to ask 'boy or girl?'. So just answer the flippin question. OR, if you can see the colour bags, just ask for your specific colour.

Hardly a crusade, being narky to a (probable) teenager cutting sarnies

[rempy]

Save the wrath for the big ones..... ask outright for a green bag next time. Or don't bother ordering the kids special.

But you are not alone. I walked out of a local diner with my family before I ordered, because we were seated under a COFFEE advert that featured a naked woman on a bed.

At the time I didn't say anything, which I felt very wimpy about, but I emailed them directly later, saying what I done, and why. Why should I have to explain to a 5 and 6 year old boy and girl that the nude woman was advertising coffee? Because obviously, a naked woman is clearly the right person to be advertising coffee. There wasn't even a sodding cup in the photo. And of course we all writhe about nude with scalding liquids.....

Why should I have to explain to them why there were no naked men, all the other pictures were of motorscooters etc.

And how the hell did they have the brass tacks to think that they were well positioned to advertise as a family friendly place?

They took it down.

Step by step. Each of us, small victories. Small challenges. Small failures, sometimes.

[SiennaBlake]

I'm saying that it was a valid question to ask the difference between the two. If I was offered a boys kids pack or girls, I'd wonder what the difference is in case it was different toys as well as different coloured bags.

[CultureSucksDownWords]

Squiggly squid, what on earth is a "girls toy"?

Have you seen this helpful flowchart to help you work out if a toy is for a girl or a boy?

[SiennaBlake]

I'd not seen that before!

[RitaConnors]

I told a young girl in MacDonalds the other week that she should ask the girls/boys toy question in a different way and she looked amazed then she said "you are right. I never thought about it like that" then I heard her ask the next woman if she wanted my little pony or whatever the other one was.

[SquigglySquid]

Squiggly squid, what on earth is a "girls toy"?

A girl toy is typically a toy that is made and geared towards the young female demographic. Marketers do this because generally girls will play with a certain type of toy more than boys. Both genders can play with whatever toy they want of course, but whether through social engineering or natural instinct, girls gravitate towards certain toys and boys do the same.

That said I do agree with your link. :) I don't think they should be exclusive to either gender.

But let's not sit there and be difficult and pretend we don't understand that when a worker asks the question he's really asking if you want the toy marketed towards your child's gender or not.

[CultureSucksDownWords]

Oh I understand what they are asking. I would argue that the vast majority of apparent gender bias in choice of toys is caused by social effects and very little by innate characteristics. I also think it is limiting and restrictive to both girls and boys to refer to things as "for girls" and "for boys", given the types of toys these tend to be. It's also worth noting that lots of children are socialised in a less gender-aware manner and aren't as stereotyped as the majority.

I would take the phrasing of the question as an opportunity to educate the staff member about this. The fact that they may be a teenager or on low pay doesn't stop me from wanting to do this. If I got disinterest or rudeness back, then I would take up the phrasing of the question with the company's management rather than waste my time persisting with one staff member.

[FreudiansSlipper]

I got in a rage with ds homework recently. Daddy tries to cook dinner (obviously not his job) pasta with cheese sauce, all seems to go well then he tries to mix it all together drops pan dinner is ruined. Or so we think then mummy (who obviously was being a lazy bitch by not cooking dinner in the first place) comes along and cooks egg and chips which they all enjoy. Message is daddy should not bother cooking as it is mummy's job, woman's work

wtf I was so so annoyed I tried to explain to ds (6) why it was so wrong I think in the end he just agreed to shut me up

though watching Toy Story 3 the other day and ds told me there is no such thing as boy or girl toys, there is only toys

[SquigglySquid]

CultureSucksDownWords But, whether by nurture or nature, girls and boys do generally gravitate to certain toys. It's not just a matter of painting a boy toy pink to make it appeal to girls. If this were the case, lego would have tons of pink legos to make another 50% demographic. But as it is, girls just don't get into them, and those that do are fine with "boy colors" so there's no point in wasting pink paint. If toys genuinely sold with both genders you can bet that companies would be marketing them gender neutral to make more money.

That's why Goldie Blox is so revolutionary. It's not just painting a toy geared towards boys pink. It's appealing to where girls are developmentally and putting a story in it, which girls are drawn to.

I hope my DD likes an even mix of toys, but if she's naturally drawn to girly princess stuff, I'll secretly hope she outgrows that crap be ok with that. I don't think it's damaging to let her like toys that were marketed towards her. If she wants to be a princess, let her be one. Just as long as parents are forcing the issue or telling their girl they can't have Batman, they need a tiara instead.

I personally like Might Girl because it acknowledges that yeah they're girls, but that doesn't mean they can't be strong like boys. If that makes sense.

[CultureSucksDownWords]

SquigglySquid... you haven't seen the Lego Friends stuff then? If you read the description of the Girls category at the top of the page, it pretty much is Lego painted pink.

You know, you are repeating gender stereotypes in your post... "where girls are developmentally" and "putting a story in it, which girls are drawn to". Where are girls developmentally? All girls develop in the same way at the same time? No, definitely not. All girls are drawn to stories? No, they are not.

Does it not worry you that scientific type toys are nearly always marketed at boys, with creative/imaginative toys marketed towards girls? It limits the outlook and future aspirations of both genders to have this stupidity perpetuated by toy manufacturers and wider society. Do you really think that children are not affected by their peers, their peers parents, what they see around them, all telling them that they are making the "wrong" choice based on their gender. If even 1 girl is put off science and exploration because of it, it's too much.

[SquigglySquid]

Culture It's been proven that girls develop language faster than boys, so yes they will be drawn to story more than a boy would. That's not to say boys aren't drawn to it, or that all girls are. Their brains are just wired differently. Men and women have differently wired brains. Scientific fact.

The problem comes from thinking that those differences are bad, and that some traits are better than others.

You have to remember we're talking generally speaking. There are outliars to every bell curve. We can't use 10% to say that the 90% doesn't happen.

Yes, every child is unique but there are differences in how the brain is wired. Saying that some children are unique to claim the opposite is confirmation bias. I'm talking broad studies. Not "I know a girl that likes cars, so not all girls...".

Most scientific toys are gender neutral with equal boy and girl in the images. Google child microscope and you have an even mix of boys and girls. So it's not a marketing problem.

Do you really think companies are sitting there going "Let's cram little girls into boxes?" No, they're looking at what sells and makes money. If they are selling imaginative toys to girls it's because girls buy them. If boys were more into imaginative toys and girls into building ones, you can bet they would be marketing building toys to girls. Companies are about the bottom dollar, they don't care about gender boxes. What they sell and how they market it is a mirror of society.

Lego markets to girls and the bottom line is still boys buying more legos than girls.

[Stratter5]

Sorry, but WRT the kids boxes, both my DDs would have been incandescent with rage pretty annoyed to get 'boys toys'. Not because I've brought them up to be pink loving children, simply they would not want 'boys' stuff. At the age they are aimed at, they were firmly in the 'boys are icky' camp, despite knowing plenty of very nice boys, and DD1's best friend was, rather confusingly, definitely male.

[catsofa]

OP yeah I'm so sorry, the world largely IS completely populated by ignorant morons.

Can't believe people on MN are sat here justifying "boys toys" and "girls toys". FFS, in this day and age? A girl needs her Subway in a pink bag? WHYYYYYYY????????

I have been known to challenge but I'm afraid I often do it more when in a bad mood, which I guess is understandable but doesn't tend to get such good results as often, e.g. a conversation that might change anyone's mind about anything.

I ignore much more than I challenge though. Right now in another window I'm playing a computer game where the group discussion has drifted into casual sexism, so I'm taking a MN break rather than bother to explain why it's annoying. Again. And again. And again.

[Pangaea]

Feel a bit sorry for the sandwich maker on minimum wage just trying to do his job based on the instructions a boss, and in turn, head office gave him.

Anger is a bit misplaced there - maybe contact head office?

Agree with you on the cabbie though. Not on.