to wonder why the SNP aren't getting the same bashing that UKIP are?

(381 Posts)
kinkytoes Thu 24-Apr-14 07:38:29

I'm not a political expert by any means and I know there has been a lot of discussion on both topics here.

But both these parties have the same ultimate aim - independence for their countries. Why is no-one calling SNP supporters racist? Not that I think they should be - just curious about the apparent double standard.

Gen35 Thu 24-Apr-14 07:41:48

It's a fine line isn't it, Scottish nationalism or nationalism of any kind is about wanting to be a sovereign country, not discriminating against foreigners as such. I live in Scotland though and I have heard people say that his appeal is essentially racist.

badidea Thu 24-Apr-14 07:45:46

The SNP have gone on about wanting more immigration and wanting it made easier for immigrants on student visas etc to stay in scotland - they've disagreed with the current UK stance on immigration (primarily because not as many immigrants come to Scotland probably because the weather is pants grin and they want/need the population to grow and so welcome external input.

That's maybe the main reason that they escape the bashing, but again, not a political expert.

PeachandRaspberry Thu 24-Apr-14 07:47:03

There's a thread above yours called Alex Salmond is a Big Fat Twat....

SetPhasersTaeMalkie Thu 24-Apr-14 07:49:11

Ukip wants out of Europe. SNP doesn't. Ukip wants to limit immigration. SNP encourages and wants more immigration. Ukip is a reactionary, discriminatory party. SNP is a progressive left leaning party which values the public sector and protects the nhs.

saoirse31 Thu 24-Apr-14 07:55:35

Think if you look at their policies it will become clear. Or is this another anti yes vote thread? Nationalism is not racism. Though obv some one who espouses nationalism msy be racist, just as someone who votes labour, conservative, lib den, socialist or who doesnt vote may also be racist.

FeijoaVodkaIsThirstyForVodka Thu 24-Apr-14 07:57:32

I might not like Salmond, but at least I feel welcome here. Under a Farage lead UK I would not feel welcome at all.

Well the SNP are pro-immigration for a start. They have nothing in common. You need to do a little bit of reading/news watching I think.

frasersmummy Thu 24-Apr-14 08:01:27

at no time has the snp said they dont like/want any particular group of people in scotland
ukip on the other hand have it made it quite clear unless you are british born and bred they dont like/want you in the uk

merrymouse Thu 24-Apr-14 08:03:23

There would be more of a similarity if ukip were campaigning for an independent Isle of Wight.

kinkytoes Thu 24-Apr-14 08:05:22

Thanks for responses. On the face of it it seemed odd but there's obviously so much more to it. I know very little about either so thank you for clarifying. Wish I had more time to read about these issues.

affafantoosh Thu 24-Apr-14 08:06:30

SetPhasers has it in a nutshell.

I view them as absolute contrasts.

I am concerned that your impression is a testament to the biased reporting of the independence debate in mainstream media. I've never felt more disappointed in the BBC than in recent months.

chocolatemademefat Thu 24-Apr-14 08:07:49

badidea - The weather in scotland is not pants - its fucking pants! And i have to live here. And I don't support the SNP.

HoVis2001 Thu 24-Apr-14 08:13:06

For me the big difference is that the SNP has never made me, as an 'English' person living in Scotland, anything other than welcome. The independence campaign is very consciously not xenophobic - they want political autonomy but are making it very clear that 'Scottishness' is a very inclusive term. They could have gone down a much more UKIP style nationalist line, but they haven't.

On the other hand, UKIP and the kind of attitudes towards immigration that it has inspired (including among the mainstream parties desperate not to lose votes) has made me feel unwelcome in the UK by virtue of being married to a non-EU citizen.

CorporateRockWhore Thu 24-Apr-14 08:15:19

UKIP wants to draw all of it's creepy wee tentacles inward and keep England for the English. Apparently.

Scotland wants to become independent so it can spread it's own networks out into the world without the extra layer of the Westminster Government.

I'm no Salmond fan, but I thank God that I don't live in England, where someone like Nigel Farage is, for unknown reasons, given air time by lots of the press and treated like a reasonable person with a message worth considering. hmm

softlysoftly Thu 24-Apr-14 08:31:31

Independent governance isn't the same as racism or actually wronf in any way. It's a political viewpoint you share or don't.

UKIP however want to prioritise "local people" and they define that by someone whose grandparents and parents were born here. Therefore you coukd be a born and bred British citizen who has never left the country and yet still considered "foreign".

Hence why (though I can't stand them) the SNP are not racist while UKIP are.

I met plenty of Scot Nats during my time in Scotland who are racist bigots. I have no doubt at all that plenty of them were (and are) card carrying members of the SNP.

The SNP (and the nationalists generally) have no need to beat the anti-immigrant drum, because Scotland's dropping population means that it simply isn't facing the same issues as England, ie, squashing more and more people into a small space.

Bear in mind also that support for UKIP is far lower than SNP support in Scotland, and has probably reached a high point.

badidea Thu 24-Apr-14 10:32:27

Agree Toad that I have also met SNP supporters who are racist bigots, along with Tory supporters that are racist bigots and labour voters who are racist bigots... (let's not over-generalise - that's where bigotry gets a foothold (e.g. all x are like y....)

My opinion of the SNP is that its leadership has been far too canny to be overtly anti-English. There is no need - there is no risk at all of them getting outflanked by a more extreme party, as those whose opinions are extreme recognise that the SNP has the best chance of getting them what they want anyway.

That doesn't negate the fact that Scottish nationalism is overtly anti-English. Scots always seem to be comparing themselves, or aspects of their culture and society with the English. It's not healthy. Accusing the English of oil theft, imperialism, and general subhumanity isn't exactly constructive.

firstchoice Thu 24-Apr-14 10:43:08

I have met plenty of Scot Nats who are racist bigots too.
The current Curriculum for Excellence is racist
(certainly the way it is taught at my kids school).
I know businesses and individuals in my area who have been threatened for speaking out against the SNP's current Independence campaign.

Yes, immigration can be welcomed in Scotland and that's as it should be.

But, if you are English, and outside of a big city, you may well experience considerable racism. Hell, my first flat purchase in Edinburgh fell through because the vendors did not realise I was English, and withdrew on that premise.

'Settler Watch' anyone?

badidea Thu 24-Apr-14 10:45:36

Toad - I wasn't asking your opinion of the SNP, I was pointing out that saying 'all SNP supporters/tory activists/labour supporters (delete as you will) are racist bigots' is an untrue statement UNLESS you have personally met every single SNP supporter/tory/labourite etc and have canvassed their views on the matter.

I've came accross similar bigotry towards the police (all police officers are sexist/racist etc)

It's lazy thinking and speaks only of the bigotry of the person spouting such over-generalisations as absolutes.

PigletJohn Thu 24-Apr-14 10:52:14

Nobody has said "all X are racist bigots" so who are you arguing with?

babyboomersrock Thu 24-Apr-14 10:54:36

But, if you are English, and outside of a big city, you may well experience considerable racism. Hell, my first flat purchase in Edinburgh fell through because the vendors did not realise I was English, and withdrew on that premise

Really? And they (or the solicitor/estate agent handling the sale) passed that information on to you? What did you do about it?

Pumpkinette Thu 24-Apr-14 11:00:34

SNP want to encourage immigration UKIP want less. SNP wants to remain part if Europe UKIP doesn't.

And off in a tangent -
Alex Salmond is a horrible toad of a man and I don't particuarly agree with a lot of the SNP's views BUT I will still be voting for Scottish independence. The way I look at it is I wouldn't not buy a house just because I disliked the wall paper, so not voting for independence just because I dislike Salmond is the same thing. I may have to put up with him for a couple of years but then I can vote for someone else.

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