to think that howling at people that they are racist is not...

[fidelineish]

..the best way to challenge their thinking or change their views?

It crops up on here frequently and it is only going to become more frequent as UKIP campaigning steps up.

[angelos02]

Worrying about mass immigration does not equal racism. Simple as peas.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Howling rarely achieves anything but pointing out that an opinion or action is unacceptable in a free society is very important. It may not change the views of the determined bigot but if the majority stay silent, we end up in the shit.

[LaurieFairyCake]

Calling racists, racists seems like a worthwhile use of time.

If indeed they are racists.

[Burren]

What do you suggest as an alternative method of pointing out racist assumptions or language, OP? Painting a picture? Mime?

[Martorana]

Interpretive dance?

[JumpingJackSprat]

Ukip are racist though. As are their supporters and anyone who votes for them.

[softlysoftly]

But anyone who supports UKIP is a racist

[gordyslovesheep]

howling??? how do you howl at people in print?

UKIP are a racist party - I don't need to howl that at anyone - most sane people get it

[fidelineish]

pointing out that an opinion or action is unacceptable in a free society is very important.

Abolutely Cogito. However, I can't help but worry about the risk of entrenching people in their wrongheadedness. If you've drawn out someone's line of reasoning and gently challenged the constituent parts and it still seems that they are just innately bigotted; well that is one think. In my RL experience, though, people are often just parroting inherited or second hand views and can me amenable to reason. If you bellow 'racist' from the off, you miss that chance to put a differing view.

[gordyslovesheep]

the medium of Morris Dancing?

[fidelineish]

one thing ^

[fidelineish]

If indeed they are racists.

Exactly Laurie. How does one tell over all the bellowing?

[softlysoftly]

I have never seen YOU ARE A RACIST GAAAAHHHH written on a thread though?

[Jinsei]

I guess we could call them stupid bigoted twats instead. Would that be better?

[LaurieFairyCake]

Folk who are voting Ukip are either racist or racist while being too stupid to know it.

Perhaps you mean we shouldn't point out racism to stupid people? In case it makes them cry?

I don't agree though. I think we should just tell folk they're racist.

The real racists won't care but the stupid people might fuck off to look at a book.

[Martorana]

I'd love the opportunity to "gently challenge" Nigel Farrage.....

[bigdog888]

But anyone who supports UKIPisa racist

Absolute bollocks.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Again... 'bellowing' like 'howling' does nothing. Even persuasion and reasoned argument is likely to fail against a thick-headed bigot with no internal logic beyond 'not got a job' .. 'foreigners bad' ... 'bad foreigner took my job'. Nevertheless, we have to collectively challenge bigotry and racism for the sake of anyone else suckered into the simplistic solutions offered by those pedalling it.

Check your history books for what happens when simplistic racist solutions go unchallenged and gain popularity...

[fidelineish]

I don't think everyone sees UKIP as racist though. If they would helpfully adopt 'your friendly neighbourhood racists' as a tagline it would simplify matters no end. But, let's face it, that won't happen.

In the meantime, I am concerned that they are picking up the potential votes of the uninformed.

[fidelineish]

Well it is challenging them that I am suggesting Cog

Challenging and dismissing not being the same thing.

[fluffyraggies]

I agree with you OP.

''That is a racist comment because ... x, y, z''

is more likely to change a viewpoint than

''You fucking racist'. Especially if the person in question is indeed simply parroting the cliches/insults they've heard others using. Lazy racism, i think of it as.

[fidelineish]

I am sure 'fuck off you racist cunt' was quite appropriate on those occasions MrsDV (and more besides).

I suppose I think there are people who can still be saved

But I would support a howling ban and even a moratorium on 'you are racist' IF we had a ban on 'you are only pretending to like immigration because you want to be seen as liberal', 'if you had to live with the effects of immigration you wouldn't be so relaxed about it!', 'Oh here we go, the PC brigade' and any mention of middle class bubbles, ivory towers or guardian readers.

Crikey. Good luck with that Be fun to try to enforce though.

I would love to see your Morris dancing BTW Gordy but I am not hopeful of its educative properties

[bigdog888]

I'll certainly be voting UKIP in the upcoming European elections, quite possibly in the next general election too but I worry that may assist the Labour cunts getting back in!

[softlysoftly]

How so Bigdog? If you support a racist party you are a racist.

I am concerned about mass unskilled immigration but I can't support UKIP as they would think my halfbreed children should never have been born and should "go back" to a country neither they nor their father has ever been.

op it's a noble thought but the vast majority of those choosing UKIP are at least a bit bigoted as much as they like to say they've got a black mate and he's alright. So I don't think reasoned argument is anything but a waste of breath.