to think that howling at people that they are racist is not...

(591 Posts)
fidelineish Wed 23-Apr-14 15:35:41

..the best way to challenge their thinking or change their views?

It crops up on here frequently and it is only going to become more frequent as UKIP campaigning steps up.

softlysoftly Wed 23-Apr-14 16:01:00

How so Bigdog? If you support a racist party you are a racist.

I am concerned about mass unskilled immigration but I can't support UKIP as they would think my halfbreed children should never have been born and should "go back" to a country neither they nor their father has ever been.

op it's a noble thought but the vast majority of those choosing UKIP are at least a bit bigoted as much as they like to say they've got a black mate and he's alright. So I don't think reasoned argument is anything but a waste of breath.

caruthers Wed 23-Apr-14 16:01:42

More people will vote UKIP this time around no matter what the silencing tactics employed are.

Calling people who vote UKIP racists is childish and quite frankly stupid.

The slurs and lies are having the opposite desired effect and they are consolidating and strengthening UKIP's position...please continue with the narrow minded rhetoric because you're shooting yourself in the foot.

puntasticusername Wed 23-Apr-14 16:02:11

I'm really not sure there's any such thing as an opinion that is "unacceptable in a free society". Bit of a contradiction in terms, in my view.

Actions, absolutely. But not opinions.

caruthers Wed 23-Apr-14 16:04:13

softlysoftly UKIP's immigration policy doesn't state anything of the sort...your post is just scaremongering.

2rebecca Wed 23-Apr-14 16:04:42

Alot of people cry racist when they just mean xenophobic or anti-immigrants. Racists discriminate against people solely on account of their race ie they'd discriminate against a black immigrant but not a white one. If you don't want any immigrants of any colour you aren't racist just anti-immigration.

fidelineish Wed 23-Apr-14 16:05:21

Oooo Caruthers you're a Kipper! Darn it I liked you.

Surely you're not saying that UKIP want uninformed voters/supporters though?

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 23-Apr-14 16:05:36

Realised that was a bit of a contradiction... confused I think I mean that, in a free society, people who are suggesting that some should be less free than others are expressing opinions that the rest of us should say are unacceptable.

caruthers Wed 23-Apr-14 16:06:24

fidelineish

Show me a racist UKIP policy?

MrsDeVere Wed 23-Apr-14 16:06:39

I have seen people have their views changed with a bit of information and robust (but polite) challenging.
I have had conversations with people in RL that have ended with them re-thinking their view points.

Something as simple as correcting their assumptions about certain groups getting free houses and benefits and cars.
Reasonable people when presented with facts will often change.

Unfortunately there are loads of threads where facts and stats make NO difference at all. Because the people are racist. They simply cling to the idea that 80,0000 Bulgarians are poised to come over here to claim JSA as a way of justifying their bigotry. UKIP are their to encourage and exploit these ideas.

What can you do?

rabbitrisen Wed 23-Apr-14 16:08:36

I think a thread entitled "are UKIP racist". may be the way to go?

OddBoots Wed 23-Apr-14 16:08:57

It's tricky as UKIP's bread and butter is disguising racism as rationality then lampooning those who identify and name the racism as if they were being hysterical or stupid. It's very easy to play into their hands.

fluffyraggies Wed 23-Apr-14 16:09:04

White/black issues is colour prejudice isn't it?

Racism as i understand it is hatred of a certain race, or number of races - eskimo, polish, american, indian etc ...

isnt it?

<not that it matters much>

amicissimma Wed 23-Apr-14 16:09:25

Calling people names is not a good way to get them to change their minds.

Nor is calling people names in an attempt to show what a nice, caring, open-minded individual you are, a good way to get people to accept your self-assessment.

Attempting to shut down debate by calling people who have different opinions (quite possibly because they have different experience) names, isn't quite as successful as the name-callers would like, fortunately for the rest of us.

fidelineish Wed 23-Apr-14 16:11:07

Will you make do with being shown racist UKIP candidates while I decide whether I can be arsed to find chapter and verse caruthers?

I can't help but feel UKIP may have more credibility and respect if they had actually shown any interest in weeding the homophobes, chauvinists and racists out of their membership. In fact they stood them as candidates. Now why is that?

Cog you just made my head hurt smile

bigdog888 Wed 23-Apr-14 16:11:12

Can you show me these racist policies? I don't agree with their stance on gay marriage for example but for me the best choice of MEPs are the most anti EU ones!

fluffyraggies Wed 23-Apr-14 16:12:40

MrsD - even in cases where the poster their self doesn't change their view, it's worth keeping at it as there are always loads reading the thread who might be open to a change of heart.

Don't give up smile

TillyTellTale Wed 23-Apr-14 16:12:45

carruthers

So, your thoughts on UKIP's Royal Commission on 'global warming', then?

caruthers Wed 23-Apr-14 16:13:58

Will you make do with being shown racist UKIP candidates while I decide whether I can be arsed to find chapter and verse caruthers?

There are twunks in every political party with odd views...you haven't shown me or anyone else a policy from UKIP that tell us they are a racist party, it's a myth.

They are because they just are is not substantial enough for an argument debate to develop.

fidelineish Wed 23-Apr-14 16:14:23

MrsDV I am only advocating having an exploratory prod at their views before deciding whether they are hopeless cases or not.

Good idea rabbit. Here you go www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2060650-to-consider-UKIP-racist smile

caruthers Wed 23-Apr-14 16:15:24

So, your thoughts on UKIP's Royal Commission on 'global warming', then?

This thread is about UKIP's non existent racist policies not global warming.

fidelineish Wed 23-Apr-14 16:15:32

MrsD - even in cases where the poster their self doesn't change their view, it's worth keeping at it as there are always loads reading the thread who might be open to a change of heart.

Yes fluffy!! That too. Political education is not good in this country, after all.

TillyTellTale Wed 23-Apr-14 16:16:49
fidelineish Wed 23-Apr-14 16:18:20

There are twunks in every political party with odd views

Not in those proportions!

you haven't shown me or anyone else a policy from UKIP that tell us they are a racist party

Well I'm not going to fall into the trap of paraphrasing. Someone with a better memory will soon be along and I have started a separate thread to assist with settling that smile

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 23-Apr-14 16:18:53

Can you show me any UKIP policies?

TillyTellTale Wed 23-Apr-14 16:19:19

Well, if you want to ignore what UKIP have said in their past policies, let's look at the fact that this week, UKIP and the BNP released very similar posters.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ukip-accused-of-scaremongering-in-antiimmigration-poster-campaign-ahead-of-european-elections-9273100.html

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