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To say he can't go to stag do if there are going to be strippers?(696 Posts)
I'm sorry if this ends up being long; I will try to keep it as concise as possible.
Last year DP went to a stag do (first one that has come up whilst we have been together). It was one of his closest friends, and one that I previously liked and respected. They were away for 2 nights. I had wondered if some sort of strip thing might be involved but I thought probably not as the friend was not that kind of man and DP assured me when he got back that there was nothing of the kind. I later found out (through my scarily good investigation and interrogation!!) that this was not the case. On the first night they had been to a strip club and on the second night there were topless waitresses at their apartment for about 3 hours. This info came out bit by bit. Each time DP would insist there was nothing more to tell, then I found out something else. Eventually I think I got a full confession out of him but it was difficult to be sure as he had lied so many times about it. I also got out of him that there had been topless waitresses at a work party he had attended some time before (I had suspected something wrong and he had always denied it before.) He claimed all this was not of his doing, it was not really of interest to him and he just went along with it because they were in a group and he didn't want to make a fuss etc etc. If he had had a lap dance, I would have broken up with him (friend had a lap dance and the man has gone down a lot in my estimation.) As it was I nearly broke up with him anyway. He knew how much I hated strippers and how I would feel about it, and he did it anyway. But I think the most damaging thing was the lying. I trusted him before, and he had destroyed all that.
We got over it and agreed that if there was anything like this again he would tell me the truth and face the music. He understands how much more damaging it was that he lied about it. Since then, I have been to a work party where there was a male stripper. I didn't know in advance but I did know once I got there and I could have come home. It seemed a bit hypocritical, but I went anyway. I just sat at the back, while some of the married women in my group, went up on stage, straddled the stripper, took their wedding rings off, etc etc. That made me think that I wasn't so worried about DP being present in a large room where women were stripping, it was how he behaved and the interaction that would bother me. Hence why I was more upset about the topless women in the apartment than the ones in the strip club. FWIW I believe he would have behaved in a similar way to me in his situation. But his friend having that lap dance upset me, and made me think you can't trust any man, even the ones who seem nice and like they really love their partners.
Now he has his DB's stag party coming up. It's in the city where we live, but some people will be coming from elsewhere so there will be an apartment rented again. He has said he will tell the truth about it this time. He has admitted that the best man is planning something to do with strippers but nothing is booked in yet. I'm already feeling upset about it already and I just don't want him to be around strippers at all. WIBU to say, if that is happening, I don't want you to go at all?
No I don't think it's a 'fact of life'.
But it is a very common thing and if someone you love/are very close to is having a stag/hen night that involves strippers, it's ok imo to still attend and think Yuk in the back of your mind...putting it down to different strokes and all that as my DH and I would.
But that's because we trust each other and we know we'd both find it cringeworthy....but still down to the stag or hen's choice.
We're both adults in a loving marriage and if either one of us decided to 'ban' the other from attending, then imo that would mean a severe lack of trust...and nothing to do with the dodgy entertainment.
Neither me or my DH would ever dream of controlling one another.
My ex tried that...and he's an ex for that very reason.
Red in a practical way I think you are right about the lying. Overreacting will encourage more lies. But I still think we have an obligation to tell our parnters difficult truths. I have told the truth to him when I knew he would be upset (unreasonably in my opinion).
I suppose other people saying I didn't trust him in the beginning maybe were right... he is a good man in all other ways. Looks like I am being unfair . I will try to trust him. I haven't asked him not to go and I won't ask him not to go. I DO want him to enjoy his time with his brother, and have all kinds of fun... just be faithful to me.
Perhaps you could say to him that if the stag night ends up going to a strip club you would prefer it if he came on home at that point but if he doesn't you would rather he told you what happened rather than lie about it. It doesn't have to be a confrontation just honesty between partners.
My DH dislikes the fact that stag nights end up in strip clubs more than I do and tends to leave before they end up there. What always disgusts me though is the attitude of the men emailing each other saying "we're going onto x club, don't let the wives know that. Mr Lurked make sure Lurked doesn't let on". I don't care if DH goes to a strip club - the minute he lies is the day there's a problem. OP, don't assume that going to a strip club automatically means he's having a lap dance or is cheating. Let him be open and honest without expecting a confrontation.
You can't stop him. And seriously, if it was only strippers and just for a laugh, then let him be. I often joke around that I'd take DH to FYEO one day, and definitely a Burlesque performance one night. His friends just look stunned and speechless when they hear that !!!
But here's the thing: I trust my DH wholeheartedly. Maybe because I know he is not into that sort of thing, and secretly hates stag-dos, to the point that he gets all worked up about having to go, and I'm the one who says he should just do it. He's not a very laddish person, to the point that I think he jumped out of a Jane Austen novel somewhere (even looks that way if he's in a suit!).
I'm aware there are other men out there whom I would not trust. Luckily, I'm not married to one of them.
OP - you really have to decide which camp your DH falls into...
Worra I meant far from my world back home and until these recent events. I was thinking maybe it is a culture thing with the place we have moved to. But evidently not as so many other people think it is expected! I have no interest in attending another strip show and to be honest I would prefer if he didn't either. I think it will come down to the importance of the event. Brother's stag party - important enough. Work party - probably not important enough.
Wilson, I understand where you're coming from, bit at the same time, without getting into a debate about the rights and wrongs or the extent to which stripping is considered sex work, the ops dp has been invited to an event where there will be a stripper. So should she prevent her op from attending this event, not in my opinion, particularly as the other involved are close family members.
Coming home to find anyone giving my op a private dance would be different to coming home and finding dp in a room full of people including a stripper.
OP, I think you have a right to feel how you feel. If other women would be ok with their partners getting lap dances etc, then that's fine for them, but it isn't fine for you, and personally I think your partner ought to respect that.
I don't like strip clubs for all sorts of reasons. I think they're horribly tacky, they objectify women and I do regard something like a lap dance as a form of infidelity. I have never banned DH from going anywhere, and I don't think I'd have a right to stop him from attending anything. That said, I would reserve the right to walk away from a man who chose to ignore my strong feelings about an issue. Others might think I am BU, but ultimately, it's for me to decide what kind of relationship I can live with.
Luckily for me, I think DH would feel uncomfortable in that kind of place anyway, but even if he didn't, I would like to believe that he would be considerate regarding my feelings on the matter.
Just reflecting on trust issue, and he has been on holiday with 'lap dance' friend a few times, just the two of them. I was not worried in any way about these holidays before or afterwards and was happy for him to go and enjoy himself. After stag party I heard about the topless girls from one of the other wives, and it was only after that that I started to dig for other info. And I kept finding out more and more things. So I do think it was the recent events and the way they unfolded that caused the breakdown in trust rather than longstanding problem.
Lurked thanks that is good advice. I think I would like it to be his decision what to do.
Strippers are not the real issue here Wilson. Not at all.
No one has said strippers are a fact of life. But there are various ways of dealing with the situation - it doesn't mean you like them.
And the truth is, you could have a partner who supported their girlfriend's anti-stripper feelings and respected their reasons. They might find out a stripper will be at their brother's stag do. So they refuse to go. This then damages the relationship he has with his brother. And he ends up resenting his girlfriend for having those views and blames her for the break down of the relationship as he never had any intention whatsoever of having a lap dance.
Its never as straightforward as saying strippers are acceptable. Its about realising its often a much more complicated situation and about various different types of relationship that need to be handled with tact rather than a bull in a china shop response. Which is what you advocate.
Bottomline is, if you dislike strippers so much and its that important to you, then you're probably with the wrong guy if he a guy who socialises with people where it is expected to be the norm. Otherwise you find ways to deal with the situation if and when it arises and you deal with how uncomfortable and upsetting you find it WITH your partner TOGETHER rather than issuing dictates about whether they are 'allowed' to go or not. Because they merely creates other problems. You may have to find a way to compromise and make sure your partner knows what is going to really cause you distress (eg no lap dances).
And there are plenty of groups of males who aren't remotely interested in strippers and find them uncomfortable viewing themselves. Even for stag nights. The vast majority of my male friends DID NOT have a stripper for their stag night, because they think its tacky & really unsexy or just that its expensive to go to a strip club
and most of them would prefer to sit in an old man's pub by the fire and be boring anyway.
Agree with what Red says, it's about defining the boundaries of the relationship you are in. And it shouldn't be about 'giving permission' or forbidding anyone to go anywhere - partners are not each other's bosses or probation officers!
My partner knows what I would consider to be cheating in the context of strip clubs (no issues with private dances for me, but there are certain lines he knows that if he crossed, I'd say it was cheating). As a result, we have a nice chat the day after where I'm always interested to hear what goes on, and I know that if he did cross the line he'd feel awful and probably not even be able to lie about it if he wanted to, because the whole relationship is built on that kind of honesty. I feel very sorry for the guys who say "I can't believe you know that MrHooya goes to strip clubs sometimes, please don't tell my wife / gf!" but I know those wives / gfs are the ones who give and withdraw permission, rather than talking their feelings through like adults.
In whose pea-brained world is it ok to call a woman controlling, insecure, uptight and unrealistic when she tells a story about her partner lying to her about his use of the sex industry, going to parties where the hosts have hired prostitutes to come to an apartment - and has concerns about another stag do where the same will happen?
In tons of countries abroad (and the OP has said she lives overseas) what are euphemistically called 'topless dancers' are actually prostitutes booked to come to an apartment that's been rented for the stag do.
OP it doesn't matter if this is normal in some people's world, or in some people's relationships. If everyone who joined the herd to harangue you on this thread felt completely at ease with their own tolerance of this in their relationships, or could square it with anything approaching equality for women, they wouldn't feel the need to call you names. Women or men who object to this crap make them feel frightened that maybe this isn't ok and if they objected, their partners would go ahead, do it anyway and lie about it. They think even the lying's defensible if a woman objects or creates a fuss, so in the most peculiar bit of rationalisation, they fool themselves that if they don't object, they won't be lied to.
Meanwhile men refer to prostitutes coming back to hotels and apartments as 'topless dancers' and 'waitresses' so the subterfuge continues and everyone can pretend they are laid-back, cool and that their partners always tell the truth to them.
None of this has to be you. None of this has to be your relationship.
All of this stuff about it being different because it's his brother is bollocks, as is the brain-washed insistence that this is okay and normal.
Your options are far broader than banning this or sucking it up.
If your partner wants to go and either likes the entertainment or is too uncourageous to say no to it, tell him how you feel. If he feels pressurised into it and in truth, doesn't like the sex industry part of it, come to a compromise.
You say it's a stag 'party' in your city, so not a whole weekend away. Why doesn't he go for the bulk of the evening and come home when they all head for the strip club/the apartment? That means he's not letting down his brother, or his own principles and is absenting himself from the sex industry bits?
The bottom line is if you're not ok with him looking at strippers, you're not ok with it and that's FINE. Who cares if it's "the norm" for stag parties? You're not ok with it and he should respect that.
For me, going to see a stripper is cheating. So my partner could go if he wanted, but he wouldn't find me waiting for him at home, I would be gone. He knows this. And he accepts it. There's no "you're not allowed to" because he is an adult who has choices. And so am I, and I choose not to be with someone who wants to be in any way involved in watching strippers.
He has also lied to you, so that's another issue.
I think you need to have a big talk and making your feelings clear, on both sides.
Give the man an inch, he'll take a mile. Give the man a mile, he'll take an inch. I honestly couldn't be a*sed checking up on my OH. I have better, more productive things to do with my time. If I thought I had to check out his stories I wouldn't be with him and he would say the same.
What a sad way to live. Over strippers. At a stag do. His own brother's stag do. I am just not uptight enough to feel bothered by that - I'd be jealous to be missing out on a party and wishing him a great night!
Yes, thanks goodness I'm not the only uncool one.. Just read this thread and couldn't believe that everyone thought OP unreasonable. It seems everyone thinks that these 'waitresses' are happy college going girls. Just making a bit of money before their law degree ends. I'll bet that isn't the case. The sex industry isn't fun.
My DHs friends would not have strippers/strip clubs etc on stag nights or any other nights. DH feels as I do, that they are demeaning and disrespectful.
YABU, and childish and controlling. No wonder your dp lied to you, you are treating him like a child telling him what you will and will not allow him to do.
Maybe I'm just a filthy degenerate, but I really don't equate strippers with cheating. I don't see the big deal about them at all, really. Especially given that there's this thing called....
<whispers> the internet
Where anyone can see naked women doing pretty much anything imagined at no cost to the viewers!
Additionally, I would hope there's very few men who go to a strip club thinking they'll meet the girl of their dreams. If that's the case, then yes, leave the bastard.
But a man going to a stag, watching a woman dance nakes while he and his friends get shitfaced? Meh.
You telling him he cannot, will not, and should not even think about going or feel thy wrath?
Don't ask - don't tell is the best policy for boys only/girls only events.
TBH, your attitude sounds very juvenile. He's a young, unmarried man doing something harmless to him.
If the roles were reversed here, everyone would be screaming, "leave the b**". There's a double standard.
I haven't read the whole thread, so I may have missed something and apologies if I have.
I don't think the op is being particularly controlling and unreasonable. She doesn't like strippers or the thought of her husband having a lap dance. I wouldn't either because it's all a bit seedy and tacky isn't it? A bit of mutual respect in a relationship is important and that should probably involve not doing something your partner would hate, as long as that is a reasonable request.
However op I don't think you can stop your husband going to his brother's stag do and some moral high ground was lost when you stayed to see a stripper yourself. I'm one of those that would have left at that point and maybe come back later when he had gone.
People think watching a stripper is cheating?! Woah! I hope you have never watched the Full Monty!
Seriously though, different people set different bars in relationships but I really really REALLY don't see how you think you can tell him what to do after YOU stayed somewhere there was a stripper yourself.
And yikes, prostitutes? I don't think the OP has suggested anywhere that her DP has had sex with any of the topless waitresses has she?
He's not her husband.
She is coming over all prudish while shacking up with the man!
I think that the comment 'face the music' says it all. You are treating him like a child and so it is hardly surprising that he acts like a child and is 'economical with the truth.'
I don't really care one bit about anyone elses opinion. I am true to my own feelings. I don't want to be with someone who goes to see strippers or hasn't the guts to say no to his friends or brother. And if not attending a party would cause damage to a relationship, the brother is a pretty crappy brother anyways. But I would have left that party you went to OP with the male stripper, you can't have one rule for him and another for yourself.
And yikes, prostitutes? I don't think the OP has suggested anywhere that her DP has had sex with any of the topless waitresses has she?
No she hasn't but its certainly on her mind from her last post
I DO want him to enjoy his time with his brother, and have all kinds of fun... just be faithful to me.
Bit off to lump strippers in with prostitutes though. Some might be, not all are.
All I can say is, there are a lot of families here who clearly don't go on beach holidays, theres a lot more flesh on display there than in a strip club.
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