To wonder why so many women are in denial about misogyny?

(807 Posts)
seeker Tue 22-Jan-13 21:31:38

What do they get out of insisting that men are subject to exactly the same level of discrimination and abuse as women? That Mary Beard, for example, would have been treated in the same way if she had been a man?

I just don't get it.

Could someone explain the Mary Beard reference please ? What's happened to her ?
confused

stargirl1701 Tue 22-Jan-13 22:24:32

Is it tied into your upbringing? When I grew up my dad and brother did as much around the house as mum and I. Our parents encouraged us to achieve and supported our choices. I assumed most people grew up like that.

Watching my PILs has been a revelation. MIL does everything! My DH clearly had a different upbringing. But, I assumed we were equals getting into our relationship and he's never commented otherwise.

MN has been an eye opener for me. I have come to realise that my upbringing was unusual.

drjohnsonscat Tue 22-Jan-13 22:25:15

totally agree. I can think of two possible reasons:

1: some women make their way in the world by not seeing misogyny and therefore not being challenging to men who can't deal with being challenged

2: others are just closing their eyes to it because it is too horrible. You only have to look at any website - including really respectable ones - and to read the comments section to see what vileness lies underneath a veneer of normality for some men. You really do not see women posting like this about men - women will complain about men in general or about someone in particular but typically without the vile hatred for half the world. If you make yourself aware of it you can find it difficult to go about your business so sometimes it's better not to know.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Tue 22-Jan-13 22:30:20

Laurie, she was on programme making some comments about immigration, about which her views...well, it's not even remotely relevant what her views about it are. She was then abused on Twitter because of the way she looks (not because of the opinion she had expressed) the grey hair, lack of make up etc. She responded by saying it was misogyny and that no one would comment on her looks if she was a man. Apparently this is also a contemptible view, and she needs to sack her hairdresser and buy some make up.

PessaryPam Tue 22-Jan-13 22:31:32

FFS we are all judged by those around us. It's not new. Even men get judged. Lets all get on and try to make it better. The judgers of women tend to be other women in my experience though.

Lauries here

PessaryPam Tue 22-Jan-13 22:33:46

I think loads of people were taking the easy option of dissing Mary Beard on her looks but they should have been going for the the true thing of her weird lefty ivory towers view on life. Dons flame proof suit and waits...

Greythorne Tue 22-Jan-13 22:35:12

To add to Ariel's synopsis of the abuse Beard was subjected to, the misogynist trolls superimposed Bear's face on to a photo of a vulva, the implication being that she looks, literally, like a cunt. Beard has blogged about how that felt here

Greythorne Tue 22-Jan-13 22:35:46

sorry x posted

Greythorne Tue 22-Jan-13 22:36:48

Feel free to critique Beard on her ideas, her writing, her views, her opinions on Question Time.

Why would anyone flame you for that, Pessary?

Pessary - There is a fine line between being judged and being abused. MB was abused not judged. I somehow don't see a man saying an unpopular opinion having their sexuality, education and work muddied like this.

inde Tue 22-Jan-13 22:41:45

I think loads of people were taking the easy option of dissing Mary Beard on her looks but they should have been going for the the true thing of her weird lefty ivory towers view on life. Dons flame proof suit and waits...

Yes you should expect to be flamed. This thread isn't about her views it's about cowardly bullying by pathetic creeps. If all you can say about those people is that they were taking the easy option then you deserve to be flamed.

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Jan-13 22:41:54

Only focusing on women seems to be a crime

domestic violence well men suffer too, rape well men get raped too, discrimination at work well men suffeer this too

no one is suggesting they do not but the vast majority of victims are women and if other women are not recognising this and not speaking out then only a few men will it has been because women raising awareness that things have changed

angry

Because if they admit it happens then they have to admit that either they are vulnerable, or that they are part of a group that gets away with shite like that. Easier to just pretend it doens't happen.

BeanJuice Tue 22-Jan-13 22:45:16

YANBU sad

Have discussed this on other forums and am usually called a feminazi and men suffer 20x worse in western society blah blah

FelicityWasCold Tue 22-Jan-13 22:45:23

It's not new. Even men get judged

shock no, that can't be right? Even men? MEN? But <whimpers>

Arghhhhhhhhhhh Arghhhhhhhh hmm

TheOriginalLadyFT Tue 22-Jan-13 22:50:35

Agree with drjohnson re how many men really detest women beneath a thin veneer of civility. I worked with a man who appeared to be a normal person, professional and polite, until I was promoted above him. Then I discovered he was a frightening misogynist with a serious anger control problem - he cornered me once and literally screamed in my face that I was a "stupid little bitch who would be responsible for people losing their jobs" for X, Y, Z reasons.

This same delightful creature and his immediate boss once conducted a conversation on a client entertainment evening where several senior female execs were present which centred around how women who were raped often became sexually aroused from the sheer physical 'pleasure'. And they really believed it

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Tue 22-Jan-13 22:51:10

I had someone earnestly explaining in really shit English that there was no need for feminism any more on my FB because, it's the poor men who have it so hard compared to women in this country. About 60-40, if he had to put a figure on it. This was in response to something I posted about the Church's attitude to gays and women.

serin Tue 22-Jan-13 22:56:14

My (12yr old) son recently got into a fight with a boy who had made a girl in his class cry by calling her a "Butt ugly arse crack".

DS made him apologise to her.

I have raised my lads to resist violence but a part of me was proud of him.

He got detention, other lad got off scot free.

DS says it was worth it.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Tue 22-Jan-13 22:58:19

<applauds serin's son> Well done, that lad.

What disgusting language angry

AnyFucker Tue 22-Jan-13 22:59:06

A minority of women ally themselves with such men, IMO

They do well out of it materially and sometimes socially (as long as they only mix with the same ilk). They also sometimes join in with the "othering" of certain groups of women such as sex workers, benefit claimants and single mothers to deflect attention away from themselves. They live in a constant state of fear and insecurity, It must be horrible, tbh.

thebody Tue 22-Jan-13 23:02:11

Sorry whose Mary beard..

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Tue 22-Jan-13 23:03:13

A professor of classics.

thebody Tue 22-Jan-13 23:05:44

And!!!!!!

TheOriginalLadyFT Tue 22-Jan-13 23:05:59

Well the good news is that Don't Start Me Off, the vile website which posted all that filth about Mary Beard, has "decided" to close down as "it's job is done" which I suspect is code for "because we are in deep shit with the police for promoting gender/race/etc etc hatred"

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