Note: Please bear in mind that whilst this topic does canvass opinions, it is not a fight club. You may disagree with other posters but we do ask you please to stick to our Talk Guidelines and to be civil. We don't allow personal attacks or troll-hunting. Do please report any. Thanks, MNHQ.

Ban on pork products in Kindergarten

(242 Posts)
ethelmeaker Tue 04-Dec-12 14:52:15

We have been asked by the parents council at my son's Kindergarten not to bring pork products in as part of the breakfast buffet (where once a week parents bring in various types of food to be served as a buffet) The Kindergarten is in Frankfurt and is a state Kindergarten, so I don't think this is a legitimate request. The e-mail that we received stated that "as some children don't eat pork for various reasons we would like to ask parents not to bring pork products anymore."
The only reason I can think of is to do with religion and in a state Kindergarten religion has no place as far as I am concerned. Just wondered if anyone else has any thoughts on this.

ethelmeaker Sat 08-Dec-12 15:20:45

It is not remotely racist, as the issue I have in this case is with religion and not race. Race and religion are 2 separate things. I have a problem with religion in general. People can pray and worship as they wish, however, choices made (such as the decision not to eat pork) should not have to be followed by everyone regardless. I was brought up as a Catholic and both of my parents are Catholics but they don't have a fit if someone wants to eat meat on a Friday and nor would I insist on it if I still believed in Catholicism.

SantaFrontPaws Sat 08-Dec-12 07:52:41

Halal Haribo would have other types of gelatin - which is all pretty manky! I would personally ask for this not to be present in schools if I had a choice. It is really nasty stuff and added to all sorts of things. Oh, I know all my sugary sweetie goodness!

The OP said there were 4 muslim kids in the class - and there was just one family who asked for pork not to be present. Even rather observant types I know just would not ask for pork not to be present - they see it as 'PC gorn mad' and disrespectful - why would you expect everyone else to observe your faith/practices? I woud certainly wear a scarf in Iran (and be very hot and uncomfortable) and observe the rules there - ok I would be arrested if I didnt but there are other things I would/wouldnt do so's not to be disrespectful or embarass family and friends.

I also really dont like fur - and for a while in my teens wouldnt wear/use leather. As a teenager it was a huge ethical thing for me. Now, were I to live to Poland or Scandanavia could I ask a dinner guest 'not to wear that murdered and possibly skinned alive animal coat' when the come, or ask that the item be left in the garden?

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Sat 08-Dec-12 02:16:50

Why would do you want to bring food that loads of the children can't eat?

The point is to provide breakfast. Obviously they are worried if somebody brings loads of pork, it will be left uneaten and half the kids will be left hungry.

Alisvolatpropiis Sat 08-Dec-12 01:19:36

Santa my local Asda sells halal Haribo...you don't have to miss out on sugary goodness AND can avoid the manly gelatin stuff (or it's halal gelatin? Tastes nicer for sure!)

Alisvolatpropiis Sat 08-Dec-12 00:35:00

But...it's a breakfast buffet? Once a week? I appreciate that Germany is,as a nation,very into pork,I've lived there. But...is it really that much of a massive issue?

Children that age pick up whatever food looks nice but then they may get upset if they realise they've eaten something they shouldn't have done as per their culture.

For one morning a week I don't see the harm. There are so many other foods the children can share. That's the point isn't it,to be all together,sharing food?

seeker Sat 08-Dec-12 00:25:49

I really want to know why you are so opposed to the idea. I can't believe it's because you genuinely think that your child will suffer in some way bey being denied pork for one meal a day. And it would be gittish beyond belief to be making a point of principle out of it. And you assure me that it isn't even remotely racist. So why?

ethelmeaker Fri 07-Dec-12 23:22:03

How much of a "nice gesture" is expecting everyone to behave as you do? I have eaten fish in the past even though I loathe the stuff and it makes me retch. Otherwise I might have offended my host and made them feel embarassed.

ethelmeaker Fri 07-Dec-12 23:15:40

No. Christmas decorations are in no way under threat here. The baubles are lovely! Courtesy is a 2 way street and as cold meats do form a large part of German breakfast then its not just all about sausage you know! Actually you might be mixing up your cultures here a little: just for clarification Germans would never eat "sausage" in the British sense of the word for breakfast. They eat cold meats.

SantaFrontPaws Fri 07-Dec-12 23:12:40

We need the right to choose. Or did I miss something?

One person has stamped their feet and asked for something to be exluded for their benefit, and theirs only - not because there was a health scare on the meat which may bemefit all. If this person did it for an animal welfare reason (they felt very strongly that it was cruel) would you support their request? I think the meat trade is cruel and wastes precious resources.

And yes, some nupties have tried to ban christmas decos and the word Christmas - something that I don't think a muslim or jew has ever demanded in a christian country. And my family are not 'these people'. They are Us.

seeker Fri 07-Dec-12 23:02:46

Oh, we're back to the fundamental human right to eat pork again. Go for it. Stand up for your rights. Forget kindness, and courtesy and making a nice gesture. Just so long as your child can eat a pork sausage. After all, give these people an inch and they'll take a mile. They'll be banning Christmas decorations next, you mark my words!

Bizarre.

ethelmeaker Fri 07-Dec-12 22:57:57

Only 1 child will be getting exactly what their parents want. The others will get less choice. There are children with allergies in the class who just avoid the foods they cannot eat. The kindergarten teachers are aware of the children who are unable or choose not to eat certain foods.

seeker Fri 07-Dec-12 22:56:15

Are there any veggies, allergics or phobics in the 22?

SantaFrontPaws Fri 07-Dec-12 22:53:40

Not the veggies, alergics, phobics...

seeker Fri 07-Dec-12 22:45:46

"I just object to all 22 children not being able to have a full choice"

That's good. If there's isn't any pork then all 22 will have a full choice.

ethelmeaker Fri 07-Dec-12 20:35:34

Just like there was no trolling, there is also no racism here either. I just object to all 22 children not being able to have a full choice. I don't impose my culture or my beliefs on anyone and I would ask that others do likewise. One of the mums has said that it would be unfair to stop all children having full choice just because her child doesn't eat pork.
Effectively there is only one family who wants this.
I consider myself to be very accommodating and really make an effort when I am a guest even to eat things I don't like and not kick up a fuss. I also ask people what they prefer to eat if I am cooking for them. I just don't like having my choices made for me about what will/will not be on offer.
I think it is unrealistic to think that everyone will bend to your wishes regarding a choice not to eat certain foods. If everything was taken into account regarding choices not to consume/allergies etc then there would be nothing for breakfast.
Oh and whoever started with the N word can just pack it in!!!! I studied the culture and history of Germany from 1919 onwards. So I know all there is to know about it.

SantaFrontPaws Fri 07-Dec-12 16:01:14

I once merrily cooked a meal which included an awful lot of onions. Of course one guest really didn't like them at all and had told me at one time. He actually ate the food and it wasn't until much later in the evening that I remembered. This was about ten years ago and I still apologise.

We keep a mainly veggie household but have a booze cabinet. DS will eat anything, but I am crap at cooking pork so have very rarely ever cooked it. DH is muslim, and I wont buy the likes of Harino as gelatine is manky stuff. Do we 'count' as good or bad?

fuzzywuzzy Fri 07-Dec-12 16:01:01

silverbaubles yes I would and I'd have your children over too and ensure everything I served was kosher. I would not want to cause upset to a guest in my house.

SantaFrontPaws Fri 07-Dec-12 15:55:16

The ex is a loon - he sounds abusive. And it is racist to hold the opinion that 'they' would purposely feed a Muslim or Jewish child pork even if they know that it is against their religious beliefs. It is implying racist intentions on their part by making sweeping assumptions on motivation and intent.

A Muslim child would hardly be invited over to Mr Griffins house for tea, would they, so why assume that people not of your religion would feel the same way as people like him? It is making a huge assumption. No one is saying that everyone ought to be force fed pork - but that the preferences of a minority shouldn't necessarily override the majority (especially when it is requested in their behalf).

SilverBaubles33 Fri 07-Dec-12 15:55:02

They wouldn't get it round mine, I'm Jewish. Would you let your kids come to me?

Jins Fri 07-Dec-12 15:48:46

Don't assume it's normal fuzzywuzzy

I would be mortified if I accidentally served something that someone couldn't eat. I cannot comprehend it being done deliberately

fuzzywuzzy Fri 07-Dec-12 15:36:20

The ex husband is being cruel, he gives the children spam (all I know is that that is not naice ham and prolly not something he himself would eat), he's making a point (at the expense of his relationship with his children).

It's not racist at all, this thread is really shocking to me, there's a very strong reason why we dont consume pork I'm not bothered about what everyone eats, but for one meal to make it pleasant and easy for everyone not having pig meat doesn't sound like a big ask.

I would happily do the same, if asked for vegetarian food, dairy free, nut free. I'd want the children to be able to have a meal where they can freely socialise and choose their food without worry.
I presume lunch and other meals can be supplied with as much of whatever the parents want?

And yes silverbaubles the answers on this thread are a real eye opener for me. I would not want my children to go to an acquaintences house for a meal incase they have this attitude of pig wont kill you so I'll let them accidentally eat it, which appears to be normal going by this thread, I'd only let them go to close friends who I know would respect mine and my childrens dietry requirements. It's not always easy to ascertain what contains which meats at parties.

My children would be hugely upset at accidentally eating pork.

SantaFrontPaws Fri 07-Dec-12 15:11:05

I think the ex husband is playing mind games with the wife. There is more than pork on the agenda there. I don't think anyone really thinks that friends, colleagues, neighbours... are all out to feed the non-pork kids pig. What a rather odd suggestion (and I find it rather racist).

SilverBaubles33 Fri 07-Dec-12 14:53:00

The disdain and the insistence that consuming pork won't kill a person is really horrible, it tells me that most parents would delight in feeding my children pork because they think it's their right to consume it.

Really? This is what that tells you? Honestly?

I have no doubt such idiots and bigots exist, but to assume that everyone who believes pork does not kill would behave like this makes me wonder how anyone with such a belief can function in a multicultural society.

I can't decide if this is high farce or low tragedy! either way, I have nothing more to contribute.

SantaFrontPaws Fri 07-Dec-12 11:34:50

You cant ban faries. I like them. Goblins maybe, kelpies definately, but not faries.

And someone who would try to get a child to eat something they can't is a bloody weirdo. A guest in your house is a guest. Ask him if you should feed his kids anthrax next time.

Although it wasnt a 'ban' (didnt OP say that pork wasnt served in the school anyway) if you are asked not to bring something and you did, the teacher would say 'we asked you not to...' So it is a ban really. Or it should be because wouldbnt they need to double check ingredients anyway for hidden pork (remember, breadsticks used to contain lard!).

Any parent who refuses playdates 'in case...' (Unless their kids friend is the child of weirdo), is giving out the message that what their friend eats is wrong/dirty/immoral... And that the adults are untrustworthy, mad or ignorant. Not very friendly, eh?

I always ask what people can/can't eat when they come over.

CarlingBlackMabel Fri 07-Dec-12 10:32:09

grin at Seeker's fairy allergy.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now