Mumsnet Talk

Totally agree with you OwlLady - not just social services but many organisations public and private think if the boxes are ticked everything is hunky dory. It's a real bugbear of mine. For the record, a lot of the employees don't like it either - there is no job satisfaction when you know the customers are pissed off.

Also agree with Iggly that we should all be looking to improve our working conditions rather than bitching about those who are slightly better off. Unfortunately there seems to be a culture of fear, especially during recessions, that has employees thinking "better not complain or I might lose my job."

I am not rich and there have been times when I have been in debt and the only person paying the mortgage, but I have never put up with unreasonable and bullying employers. It's a state of mind that I have cultivated: a belief that I am good at my job and will always be able to get another one.

It's sad how many people have been sucked into the race to the bottom.

Because some workers have a relatively good deal, does that mean everyone should?

Why the jeff aren't people complaining about the incredibly insane pay rises that senior staff get in the private sector, especially in banks despite the billion pound bail outs and crashes which caused a global recession?!

All in it together my arse.

Where are these public sector workers who expect or get pay rises every year? Round here council workers got pay cuts last year; this year they are looking at massive redundancies. Noone seems to have mentioned magically deserving.

My mum is a public sector worker, she has better pay and conditions than her equivalant in the private sector, managed to dodge all the bullets in the pension debacle and is doing very well thank you. She will indeed get a final salary pension.

Except that according to her, she isnt that well off. She has been in that job for 30 years and has no idea how lucky she is. She conveniently forgets that we dont all get guaranteed pay rises, good pensions, union protection etc and is very disparaging of people who complain how hard things are at the moment. Her attitude is that you should just work harder

It really does get on my tits that just because she works in local government she thinks that she automatically deserves things that the rest of us would count ourselves bloody lucky to have. And she is a baby boomer who made money in her property. I am sure you can imagine the rows......

I think the thing that annoys me most about how the social service is organised is that they think they are meeting objectives and proving services because they work within a given timescale In my opinion, that is not providing a service, that is working to protocol and ticking all the boxes, yet even at complaint level they wheel out that the timescales have been met so complaints cannot be upheld even though a[appropriate support and services are not provided that's too much management

It's a shame some workers are (or feel) so powerless that they have to put up with that kind of attitude Darkesteyes.

I wonder why some employers are so cavalier - I suppose they think they have a ready supply of replacement labour, but surely they have some staff that they value enough not to piss off.

Been following this thread with interest.
When i worked in retail for not much more than minimum wage we often had to stay late.
But if people working in shop and factory jobs complain the attitude is usually "Well its better than being on benefits"!

I think there is this misconception amongst public sector workers that the grass is greener in the private sector. It's not.

I know so many people in private sector who have not had a pay rise or cost of living increase in at least four years. Companies that contribute to a pension are almost non-existent now, and as for final salary pensions, well I think they went out with the ark. Very few industries have unions now so if you have a problem there is just no one to turn to and no support network. It's tough and employees seem to be getting shafted left, right and centre. There is no security and no loyalty from employers and in turn no employee loyalty. It stinks.

I've been really interested to read this thread and see how many other people feel. Up until now, I actually thought I was in the minority!

Yes but ShellyBoobs it's an issue that negatively affects more women than men (see the article I linked to) so we all need to be careful about placing an expectation on all staff to do unplanned overtime.

I don't disagree with your earlier point that there is a middle ground - this thread has pushed us all into defending extreme positions. Of course there are some jobsworths who never give an inch ... but people who leave at 5pm are not necessarily those jobsworths.

We also shouldn't forget that needing to leave work on time is a feminist issue.

What a crock of crap.

That's me out.

Doesn't everyone think they deserve better employment conditions?

If you don't pop a CV in the post to me. I'll gladly offer you reduced pay, increased hours and trim the fat off your pension. Everyone's happy

"so who are all these people allegedly thinking public sector workers are somehow magically deserving of better employment conditions?"

Well, they tend to be public sector workers, who think that...

I come across private sector workers every week who are rubbish. Bank staff, checkout workers, call centre people etc etc. I don't tar a whole sector of people with the same brush though.

This article in the Guardian makes some interesting points about accommodating both employers' and workers' needs in a way that does not disadvantage those employees who have to leave at 5pm:-

www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/oct/05/women-work-life-balance-twitter

We also shouldn't forget that needing to leave work on time is a feminist issue.

OwlLady - I don't doubt you, but we can't generalise about a whole profession based on our own experiences.

I would say, no matter what their job, if people have a good manager who truly understands and respects their efforts, most will go the extra mile.

Good managers seem few and far between.

well the public sector workers i come into contact with (social workers) need to do some WORK for their wages
imho

sorry

but they are a pile of shite here

No LaQueen and neither do you, so who are all these people allegedly thinking public sector workers are somehow magically deserving of better employment conditions?

Anyway, the division between public and private sector workers is a red herring. What we are talking about in this thread is bad management practices, which abound in both sectors.

farside do you know all of the million +, public sector workers then

I'm not aware of anyone thinking public sector workers should have better conditions of employment LaQueen. Personally, I think everybody should have reasonable salaries and employment rights.

This split between public/private is meaningless anyway, since both sectors have their low paid and high paid workers. Annual pay rises don't mean much if you work in one of the very many low paid public sector occupations, like the cleaners and carers.

LaQueen

I totally agree with bogey I consider myself pretty sharp, but to date no one has ever successfully explained to me why public sectors are somehow magically deserving of better employment conditions than private sector workers

And, it's not like they haven't tried. I know quite a few public sector workers, and as far as I can ascertain, the gist of their justification appears to be 'Well...well...well...we just should have yearly pay rises, that's all, okay.'

Hardly a compelling argument

As far as hours go I am in early every day, have never had a lunch break in 10years and am expected to work through.

You do know that's illegal, right? Just take your lunch break.

Not staring a fight either I just have several friends who all work in the public sector and have had guaranteed payrises over the past few years, thanks to pay scales, and who have all had a good moan about how 'hard' the recession has been for them. Er... no, no it hasn't been actually. It might be now, but it wasn't three years ago when half my company was being made redundant! <deep breath>

But most people's jobs suck one way or another, don't they?!

I wasn't aiming to start a fight, as it is I earn 16k a year for the nhs. My husband earns £18k a year for the council. My sister is the only one who works in the private sector and she got a £1500pa pay rise. As far as hours go I am in early every day, have never had a lunch break in 10years and am expected to work through. So much for gold-plated! dons hard hat

Elkie, I have to agree with Bogey - I have had no pay rise (private sector) for nearly 4 years now, I can't even begin to work out what that pay decrease actually amounts to. The lack of payrise is shit for everyone, regardeless of what sector they work in, and I definitely agree that my attitude nowadays is that I work hard during my contracted hours but that it is, they don't pay me enough to work over - but the private sector has been suffering from these real-term pay decreases for several years more than the public sector has. And with no unions to back them and fight for increases.

95% of private sector workers are not fat-cat bankers and have been suffering from the recession for several more years than the public sector.

(Can you tell this is a bit of a bug bear of mine?!)