to find this article on motherhood inFURiating?

[BlooferLady]

Guardian writer in 'motherhood is hell' shock

Disclaimer: je suis TTCing. Erm, for a LONG time!

I didn't want children for years. YEARS! Was violently opposed to it And you know why? Because it looked like one long unending saga of drudgery, misery, isolation and loss of identity and self-respect (I have a large family and thus had the opportunity to observe its effects up close every 18 months or so).

We're TTCing now - hormones and a little wisdom took over, and I would very much like to be a mother. And yet here on MN and in the press I find my old terrors reinforced, and this article sums it all up. Everything I feared is true...

BUT IS IT? By the end of the article I wanted to slap the woman. She complains of her life dwindling to a miserable compressed world of perma-exhaustion, leaking breasts, nappy changes, never seeing her old friends, losing her sense of a professional life, only ever socialising with mothers and mother and toddler groups, bitterly envying women who still go to work, angry with her partner for not helping out round the house...

Someone PLEASE tell me it doesn't have to be like this. I wanted to yell at her, get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! Do some work from home! MAKE your partner help out!

Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect? For motherhood extends, informs, illuminates their life - doesn't effectively end it! Because if not, I don't want children. AIBU?!

"For whom motherhood extends..."

There's another thread on this article somewhere. No it doesn't have to be like this at all, but it would be a lie to say that it isn't like that for a lot of women because it is. It isn't like that for me. But then I never went to mother and toddler groups or assumed that I would automatically make friends with people just because we happened to be at a similar period of gestation and at the same ante natal class.

Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect?

There are hundreds of us like that on MN, if not thousands. You can be one too. Promise.

YABU for expecting an opinion piece in a weekend broadsheet to engender any other feelings than either murderous rage or utter indifference. But on this specific piece YANBU.

Good luck trying for a baby.

Oh dear, MN research FAIL

I'll look for y'all Georgie - I think I've developed blinkers on MN and only ever seem to come across threads of wailing despair . . .

It seems to be very trendy in these straightened times for underemployed hacks to moan about having to do their own childcare. I cannot abide bimbo journalism but apparently newspapers thinks it sells. I recommend not reading any of the "commentary" type columns.

And in answer to your question, no it does not have to be like you remember (I never found it such a sore trial), especially if you chose to have the children you have (which it sounds like your parents maybe didn't). You also get an emotional connection to the little creatures which I imagine your 6 yo self didn't. This said, you never know how it's going to be for you until you do it. You do have to adapt fast and some people find that hard. One person's anecdote is not data.

No no, I didn't mean you shouldn't start another thread, I just meant you might want to have a look at the other one and see what people are already saying about the article.

I would say the first six months are a blur where you feel like your entire life is in a washing machine, but it does get better. It should and if it doesn't something is wrong. The author of that article sounded like she had PND to me.

Nowhere in that article does she mention love, and for me, that is the overwhelming thing about having children.

It can be monotonous, and it certainly isn't glamourous, so on the face of it, the article pretty much sums up life with a baby. What it should tell you is that the all-consuming love for your baby makes it worthwhile.

Yes your life will change.

No it will not all be shit.

If you are a meeja-type and want your life to carry on as before with no alterations then don't have children unless you can afford a 24-7 nanny from day 1.

Re threads of wailing despair: don't read the threads about children! Those of us who are still people are too busy chatting about other stuff!

Duchesse it's a good point - must remind self only ever to read columns by Lucy Mangan, who's right about everything.

The misery I saw as from my sisters trotting out a dozen nieces and nephews over the years, btw. God it looked appalling. One of my abiding memories was of one Christmas dinner when my older sister sat silently weeping as her son spent his second hour screaming hysterically upstairs. I realise there are different parenting methods and maybe controlled crying wasn't working for her, but that encapsulated motherhood for me, for years. That and the post natal depression and the adultery and divorces.

You're right peabody - no-one mentions the good stuff.

I have skim read the piece so may not have all the details but it seems fairly realistic to me, sorry.

The author says that now she is back at work it is more normal so its not like her life is over.

Your fourth paragraph of your post is a little naive, some of these ideas might work but when you have a tiny baby who cant be reasoned with in any way you do end up having to give in (alot). You are also underestimating the part lack of sleep plays in it all.

My kids are 4 and 2, my oldest is in reception and my youngest goes to daycare nursery part time. I stayed home for nearly 5 years. It is much easier now!

My DH did 'help'but didnt ever do as much as me, there a multiple reasons for this but it did seem as babies there waas less he could do. I breastfed both so that was 6- 8 months they needed to be near me. DH was working and as we were dependant on his wage, stuff got shifted on to me as work was his major priority (to feed us all!) etc.

But it is worth it when they grow up a bit and can entertain, feed and toilet themselves, so good luck TTC.

I know exactly where you're coming from. We were TTC for over 8 years. Since DS arrived, life has been much improved! Our social life is better, and we still do 90% of the activities we used to, and dozens of new ones.

When we were going through IVF, (and latterly adoption) I lost count of the "well-wishers" who told me over and over again how lucky I was to have all this freedom and disposable income and seamless lifestyle, and how hard and tiring it was being a parent. But they didn't see how lonely it was, and how there was a DC-shaped hole in my days.

This article is sad, I think - and can cut like a knife when someone has something that you want so much... very insensitive, and ill-thought out in my opinion.

Being a parent is hard at times, but hard in a wonderfully positive way. And my DH and I are both lucky in that we're reading from the same page, and we share the child care, and the difficulties, as you suggested in your OP. But then, years of preparation set us up for that, I think.

If you're anything like me (and, I guess, others who spent a long time TTC) then one massive positive that I take from all those years of yearning is that I remember with searing painful clarity EVERY DAY how hard those years were, and how much I wanted to be a Mum - and even on the most difficult of days right now, that memory prevails, and i know how lucky I am and how good life is now.

Don't give up - my life is brilliant, and every day I know how lucky I am, and good luck with TTC

I'm wondering if the writer might have PND.

If so, I hope she is reading this and things about getting support.

Fanks Georgie, I will seek it out :)

I think there's a bigger picture here that worries me ... I have vague feminist rumblings . I am fearsomely ambitious, fortunately in something I could readily do from home, and I am frightened that some weird alchemy will happen and suddenly I won't give a shit for all that and will be CONTENT to let my life dwindle...this woman COULD have carried on her career and maintained her identity (and so could a lot of women I see/read about) but didn't bother! Does something happen at birth where some better instinct kicks in and your 'self' vanishes? i don't think I explained that very well - but does anyone klnow what I mean at all? Are women censured for wanting to be a bit (I suppose) selfish?

Case in point - I in my hope and ignorance like the idea of mixed feeding (so my DH can both get involved and help out) and getting into a routine if possible. This is because I would want to pursue my ambitions and wouldn't want my whole life taken over. I know EBF and AP and whatnot work for some but it wouldn't for me I don't think. Yet almost everything I read here on MN almost demonises women who try and arrange things so that their life isn't ruled by the demands of their child. (Again - I'm probably reading selectively to reinforce my terrors!).

Motherhood rocks. Sometimes it is hard, but sometimes I pinch myself because I feel that lucky.

But DD won't take a bottle.

And a friend didn't leave the house with her DD for the frst 3 months cause she had undiagnosed reflux and screamed...so the V&A would have been out. It isn't always simple.

But seriously, it is great. I think people on MN worry about telling the great stories for fear of committing the ultimate crime of appearing smug...but horror stories are always welcome. Which is sad, but I have more of the former than the latter, which I'm sure most do.

Good luck TTC!!

I think it is important for a woman to have an identify outside of her career and outside of her family. If you know who you are, then a year's worth of maternity leave will not give you an identity crisis.

Thanks so much sterry (and all of you actually), and congratulations on your DS! You're ruight, there's something else in there - that it's something I want, and that has called some sadness because it is not coming easily, and so when I hear about how awful it all is it makes me wonder why we are putting ourselves through it. If I'd got pregnant immediately I wouldn't have had time to dwell on it all.

littleducks I know a lot of what I'm saying is naive and ill-informed - inevitably, 'cos I'm not a mother, so however much I've watched appalled from the close sidelines for 20 years I don't actually know what I'm talking about... :)

"Motherhood rocks" Ninky THAT'S more like it!

I have two lovely little girls.

I am a SAHM.

Yes, it has been hard at times, but then, guess what, when I had a high paying job, that was hard from time to time, too. and sometimes it was boring and exhausting and annoying and sometimes, yes, I even cried in the loos at work. Because, you know what? Sometimes, life can be hard. I loved my job but sometimes I had shitty bosses and sometimes fantastic ones. Once, I felt like I was blessed to be managing the best team in the world and at another time, someone on my team spread malicious rumours about me and nearly gave me a nervous breakdown. Shit happens.

I love being a SAHM. my legs are shaved, my hair is coloured, my bikini line does not yet reach my knees, I go out for coffee at a local coffeeshop with mum friends regularly and I go out for dinner with my husband and with our friends. I own a nice handbag (from Accessorize, but it is very nice). I have never bothered with a "nappy change bag". I breastfed both children until they were two but after the 9 months of breastfeding, I was back wearing normal, pretty bras, not complicated breastfeeding contraptions. I hardly ever go to the cinema now because it seems like a massive faff to get a babysitter and go out to watch something that will be on Blu Ray in 3 months. But when a recent film really grabbed my fancy, I made an effort and went to see it at the flicks.

I despise this dunb hacks who trot out boring, facile clichés about motherhood as if there are only two options:

• be a SAHM with baby sick all over her with greasy hair and drooping boobs, exhausted and pissed off, ready to commit homicide agaoinst her DH

OR

• be a WOHM who misses her kids desperately and resents the nanny / CM for getting all the good bits who is storing up a future of guilt and self hatred for Not Being There When Her Babies Are Small

How about we all grow up and see that life is, I don't know, nuanced?

I just read it and I have to say, lots of it (not all) DID ring true - I liked the way she called it her partner's 'exterior life'. It was entirely unexpected for me, because we'd had pretty equal lives until that point.

It's slightly more complex than she says, because you bring to parenting the baggage from the way you were parented. It's not like you're this blank canvas and society dictates that you become the 50s housewife. Parenthood - maybe more motherhood than fatherhood? don't know - is very psychologically complicated, the upside being very great joy and enjoyment and pride that isn't easily found elsewhere (no matter what your domestic arrangements). Focusing on the domestic is always going to turn the idea of parenthood into something unattractive because the fact is that it is full of dull, repetitive tasks, you are tired etc. It feels like that is the focus of it for a while but THIS DOES GET BETTER.

Certainly not every woman has had this experience, MN is full of people who haven't, for a start. I really kicked myself that it wasn't obvious and especially that DH didn't even have to think about whether it was obvious or not (until I forced the issue, ha). He's no dinosaur. He's bright. It simply is the case that it's bloody easy for a man to carry on as she says, with the addition of fatherhood to his life. I once said that on here and a man sniped that this was because the man has to carry on as if nothing has happened and go out to work. It wasn't even worth arguing the toss with a gulf of understanding like that.

My advice is: if you can afford it, get a cleaner - remove this level of irritation totally. Divide the rest of the domestic tasks equally.

• Yes you will most likely be doing the lion's share of baby-related tasks because you will be physically more present (almost totally for a while if breastfeeding) and it's not the sort of thing that can wait until the other person has a moment to do it. Just go with it for a while, it doesn't last, and in the end it doesn't make you a drudge, it is simply an artefact of you being the more present parent. But do talk about this and make sure that other tasks are shared from the beginning.
• You don't have to do baby groups if you don't want to, and remember that the people you meet are very random. If you meet a group of alpha-mothers who seem shallow, obsessive, and irritate you - this is not a comment on motherhood, it's just those people. (I met some of my best friends at the health visitor's - it was luck.)
• Get back into the world of work as soon as you want to, be prepared for some discrimination and meet it head on with professionalism. Keep your hand in at work even if it's not meeting your needs in the way it did before. In a few years' time, it will. Or it won't, but you won't have a huge gap in your cv.
• For a while you may not recognise yourself but you do come back. The woman you are in the first three years or so is one who is working at capacity.
• Childcare costs will depress you - if you have family to help then great. If not, make sure you calculate that you pay HALF the childcare costs, because your partner pays half too. It is not your salary that covers it. Don't be cowed by women who have managed exemplary full time careers and three children. It isn't a level playing field. Most are either in extremely high-paying jobs or have family to do free childcare. This can't be underestimated.

ANd get off MN! It eats time like nothing else.

Oh, and don't try and pigeon hole what type of parent you will be, and make assumptions about others' parenting until you have children. Apart from the mixed feeding I felt a little like you, but when your child comes along you do have to take a backseat for a while. You cannot train a tiny baby to work around you for a fair while, for a myriad of reasons I will explain when not typing one handed!

I think the article is pretty honest.

As someone who was organised and busy before I had children, the stark reality of being stuck at home, often in pain, shattered and alone hit me like a sledgehammer. XP continued going to work and the pub like he always did, I was on call 24 / 7. Although I did do the GF routine after a while which helped me.

When I went back to work I still had to do it all.

"People are always happy to voice the bad but when things are going well you never hear a peep."

Yes, because they're off having fiun with their families. When they're getting over illness, wingey, clingy and not sleeping you are on MN in a haze wingeing, as I am this morning.

OP, I imagine you'll find it won't be as black and white as you think to "do" stuff. People tend to go to things like M&T groups because that's where life is easier for them with a tiny baby, especially when they're getting to grips with feeding, nappy changing and generally looking after their most precious possession. Wanding round the V&A (I don't know what that is) can seem daunting when you're sleep deprived. Working from home can be impossible when you're trying to juggle the 101 demands of your new baby and shower and stick a load of washing on when she's asleep. But you do find ways to make it work, you do tend to get back to 'you' at some point in the first 18 months.