AGP help please

[OpheliaTodd]

If a guy has full surgery on his genitals in his quest to “become a woman” does that mean he can’t be an AGP? Because surely - sorry to be crude - in order to get the thrill and pleasure from the sight/idea of himself as a woman, he needs a dick to wank with?

[ArnoldWhatshisknickers]

No.

AGPs can get so caught up in their thrill seeking that they take it to that extent. Whether they still get any thrills after the fact is a moot point, the damage is done by then. It is one of the many, many reasons why the delusion that people can change sex should never be pandered to in the first place.

[Whatisthisfuckery]

I would’ve thought surgery was the ultimate expression of AGP. (Not suggesting all post op tw are AGP btw) I’m not sure how much if any sexual feeling is left but they only find that out after the event.

[OohthatlovelyNigelfromBabyClub]

Are they always straight?

[ArnoldWhatshisknickers]

Blanchard's typology sees AGP as a heterosexual orientation turned inward.

Whether in real life that means all AGPs are strictly heterosexual I'm not so sure. There are certainly some homosexual transsexual types who appear to be fetishistic of womanhood in their behaviour.

I guess as with any human behaviour there aren't absolutely clear lines between one and the other.

[OohthatlovelyNigelfromBabyClub]

Thanks Arnold 👍

[LangCleg]

AGP can become so intense that it leads to gender dysphoria - and then to surgical treatment.

[GirlDownUnder]

...leads to gender dysphoria - and then to surgical treatment.

And this no longer a mental health issue?

[Datun]

Was it Juno Roche who wrote extensively about their neovagina? The fantasies over what it would feel like were obsessional, prior to surgery.

The shock of reality, but determination to make the best of it, post surgery, is quite awful to read.

[Campervan69]

"In the opening pages ofQueer Sex, author Juno Roche gives us a detailed account of her feelings towards her vagina. After years of living without one, she thought that acquiring one as part of her transition might finally bring her inner peace, and get her laid in the way that she’d often dreamed about. To the contrary, the vagina was a bit of a let down – she didn’t feel that it made her complete, and also she couldn’t seem to find anyone suitable to have sex with."

Yes this is the main issue I would have thought.

[SheWhoMustBeSilent]

Dr Anne Lawrence is an autogynephilic transsexual. His writing about this is excellent. His written papers are available via the Internet:

www.annelawrence.com/becoming_what_we_love.pdf

www.annelawrence.com/autogynephilia,a_paraphilic_model_of_GID.pdf

www.annelawrence.com/shame&_narcissistic_rage.pdf

www.annelawrence.com/

econtent.hogrefe.com/doi/pdf/10.1027/1016-9040/a000276

www.annelawrence.com/desire_for_sr_a_mental_disorder.html

[MinnieTheSphinx]

Funny how trans women always seem to be classed as fetishists on here but trans men are all lesbians in denial.

[SheWhoMustBeSilent]

Funny how trans women always seem to be classed as fetishists on here but trans men are all lesbians in denial

This is simply because it is extremely rare for any women to experience any kind of sexual fetish / paraphilia.

[DuMondeB]

Blanchard breaks AGP into 4 subtypes, most AGPs fall into at least 2 of the groups, with some ticking all 4 boxes.

The groups are:

Transvestic autogynephilia: arousal to the act or fantasy of wearing typically feminine clothing

Behavioral autogynephilia: arousal to the act or fantasy of doing something regarded as feminine

Physiologic autogynephilia: arousal to fantasies of body functions specific to people regarded as female

Anatomic autogynephilia: arousal to the fantasy of having a normative woman's body, or parts of one

Penile inversion surgery is part of Anatomic Autogynephilia (if you lurk some of the trans chats, you will find there are some men that only have this type of AGP - they don’t transition socially, only medically (often using black market hormones and overseas surgeries).

[MinnieTheSphinx]

This is simply because it is extremely rare for any women to experience any kind of sexual fetish / paraphilia.

I'd imagine that's true... if you were doing a survey based on the average member of these boards

[Ereshkigal]

I'd imagine that's true... if you were doing a survey based on the average member of these boards

LOL is that supposed to be insulting to MNers? "You're not fetishists like all the cool people!"

[SheWhoMustBeSilent]

I'd imagine that's true... if you were doing a survey based on the average member of these boards

It is fact that extends to all women everywhere not just within Mumsnet.

"Various explanations have been put forth for the rarity of female fetishists. Most fetishes are visual in nature, and males are thought to be more sexually sensitive to visual stimuli.[19] Roy Baumeister suggests that male sexuality is unchangeable, except for a brief period in childhood during which fetishism could become established, while female sexuality is fluid throughout life."

from the page in Wikipedia Psychiatry section:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fetishism

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fetishism

[MinnieTheSphinx]

LOL is that supposed to be insulting to MNers?

I'm sure plenty of you have your own personal 'penis beaker', probably filled with bleach.

[DuMondeB]

I was a phone sex chatline operator in the 90s, in three years on the job I only ever had one female caller, yet the variety of men’s paraphilias I had to talk about was nuts. Men have fetishes about the weirdest shit, like being shrunk tiny small or women in high heels stamping on balloons.
Purely anecdotal, of course.

[Campervan69]

Minnie I can't understand what you are doing here on the feminist forum. Nor why @mumsnet continue to allow you to troll like this.

You never add anything except unpleasantness and an MRA slant to any discussion.

[TheInebriati]

I hope MN let that comment stand.

[MinnieTheSphinx]

It might be rarer among women but there are still plenty of female fetish sites online. There are certainly. fetish clubs and groups for women in London.

Anywhere, whether it's rare or not the fact is that if interest levels were reversed you lot would still be saying m2fs are fetishists and ftms are lesbians... because it suits your propaganda.

[DuMondeB]

Actually, we talk about straight ROGD girls identifying as gay men fairly frequently.

If you are going to get finger pointy, you should at least be accurate in your accusations.

[MinnieTheSphinx]

If you are going to get finger pointy, you should at least be accurate in your accusations.

Perfectly accurate. Your whole campaign has been built around saving lesbians from being supposedly duped into transition.

[LangCleg]

I'd imagine that's true... if you were doing a survey based on the average member of these boards

Yes because we're all uptight, puritanical, missonary-only haggard old bags, right? Deary me. Try harder.

Paraphilias are an overwhelmingly male phenomenon and closely comorbid with sex offending.

Multiple Paraphilic Diagnoses among Sex Offenders

fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/153.full_.pdf

[LangCleg]

I'm sure plenty of you have your own personal 'penis beaker', probably filled with bleach.

Is that a variety of the incredibly common female fetish, Bobbitism?

This so painfully obvious, Minnie. You could at least try to be subtle.