Just got out of the swimming pool....

[rosabud]

Like the poster who had to put up with men behaving unacceptably on a train yesterday, I have had a similar experience tonight at my local pool. I was with my teenage daughter and we were swimming quite late in the evening and, as we live in rural area, the pool was largely empty. A group of 5 men came in and began being rowdy and "larking" about and managing to "accidentally" get in our way. DD was intimidated at this point and wanted to get out but I told her not to be daft and we moved over to the edge of the pool and finished our swim.

When we got out, the men were already in the unisex changing rooms. As we walked round the corner one of them was wandering around naked and, when he saw us, laughed and placed his hands over his genitals. Cue raucous laughter from the other men and shouts of "Did she see your fucking length?!" DD and I ignored them, went into a cubicle and got changed, all the time listening to them loudly shouting and swearing about the lengths of their penises and what they could do with them. I was getting very angry and was going to confront them but DD, quite frightened, begged me not to.

Afterwards, I complained to the staff on reception that the behaviour and language had been appalling, that female customers who are in a vulnerable situation (naked and getting changed) should not be subjected to that and neither should the female member of staff who had been in the changing rooms at the time.

A male member of staff was very apologetic and said that had he known about it, he would have dealt with it, which I suppose is something.

I am so angry that men think it is OK and even funny to behave like this in public and to intimidate women. I am also angry that the female life guard did not immediately go and get security involved - I am not blaming her - it just makes me reallize how all women are socialsied to "accept" or "put up with" this kind of harrassment.

When we came out and got in the car, I had the rage so badly that I was shaking!!

[ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy]

God, how awful. That's indecent expusure.

[rosabud]

Thank you, both of you. Buffy, I have a real life glass of wine here and it's only Tuesday!!

[PuffinsAreFicticious]

Are you ok now? What a horrible thing for you to have experienced. Have you thought about speaking to the police?

Take care.

[Biscuitsneeded]

I think I would report to the police. The swimming pool may have CCTV footage of these men arriving/leaving, if not of their behaviour in the changing area.

[HolyQuadrityDrinkFeckArseGirls]

Def the police.

[NickAndNora]

This is why I am firmly against unisex changing rooms and toilets. Shared space becomes male space and it stops women participating in society.

Whoever came up with unisex changing rooms has never had to deal with catcalls, public body-shaming, hazing, being pestered for attention, someone getting angry because you've rejected his attention, Peeping Toms, creepshots, revenge porn, flashing, exhibitionism and sexual assault.

Women-only space isn't about prudery and pearl-clutching, it's about keeping women safe and enabling us to participate in the world. Women in developing countries are fighting to gain these spaces but here it's 'progressive' to get rid of them. To me they are a sexual harassers wet dream.

I'm really angry these entitled arseholes ruined your sense of ease and enjoyment at what should have been a fun activity with your daughter. Bastards!

[DancingDinosaur]

Hmm, I'd report it to the police. See if they can do anything. Take back control for yourself and your dd.

[dreamingbohemian]

That's awful. I'm so sorry you both had to go through that.

I would suggest writing a strongly worded letter of complaint to the pool, asking them to review their policies and procedures for situations like this, and to inform you of the outcome of their review. I'd say you will not hesitate to call the police if this happens to you again, that should get their attention.

On the broader issue, I think unisex rooms are fine in places where they are the norm and everyone grows up with them. I go to a pool here in Germany with unisex rooms and it doesn't seem like anyone cares, people walk around the hallways naked. But you can't impose norms on a society, there's no reason to think men will just magically behave themselves and women shouldn't have to put up with that kind of bullshit.

[MildDrPepperAddiction]

NickandNora said it perfectly.

Hope you and your dd are ok now.

[ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy]

Our local pool has unisex changing rooms but the actual changing is all in cubicles. So anyone seen naked has made a deliberate choice for that to happen, which sounds like this guy here too.

[PetulaGordino]

How utterly grim. Hope you and your dd are ok

[Zazzles007]

Ugh, yuck, I think this is utterly grim as well. Where I live, I would be livid if the local pools weere to have unisex change rooms - it.would.not.go.down.well. If the society were geared towards being more accepting of unisex change rooms as described with Germany, I would not have a problem, horses for courses. However, the twatty behaviour of these men was uncalled for and intimidating, which was their aim. Of course they will couch it as 'having a laff', however, they are the only ones laughing. Its not a joke when others find your behaviours disgusting and intimidating. Find them if you can, and get them warned off.

[Roonerspism]

This was indecent exposure and therefore a criminal offence and should be reported to the police. It should not be expected as the norm.

It is tiresome that women have to fight this way, but we do, or it will never change.

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

Rosa, so sorry you and your DD were exposed to that behaviour, it sounds grim.

I think I would write a letter at the least, if not call 101 for advice

[kentishgirl]

How old is DD?

I'd report to police too I think - if they are members the pool may have records of who was there, or there may be CCTV if you act quickly. It's indecent exposure and harrassment. If DD is under 16 then even worse.

[TheFilthiestPersonAlive]

That is awful, your poor DD. What a lesson to learn as a young woman - to fear and be intimidated by men.

I also think you should call 101 for advice.

[SevenZarkSeven]

It's interesting reading the responses as I wouldn't even think of contacting the police for something like this as I imagine they'd laugh in my face. I have had bad experiences with the police (nothing major but still) and don't trust them / have any faith in them so it's me who is probably out of step there.

OP if you do contact the police I would be really interested to see what they say.

Their behaviour was atrocious goes without saying.

Interesting as well that neither you not the female member of staff who witnessed it thought to / felt they could do or say anything at the time - poster upthread who said we are SO strongly socialised to "put up and shut up" with this stuff it's ridiculous. And of course the person who was really shocked was a bloke - another thing that's come up as women and girls don't talk about it and the average man has no idea of the sheer volume of shit the average female puts up with over a lifetime and if you tell one even a fraction of it they are horrified (and find it hard to believe).

Sorry a ramble there.

I think in general - women and girls need to speak out about this stuff more if they can e.g. everyday sexism so the public (ie men) can start to understand just how commonplace and how serious it is.

[Anonnynonny]

I would definitely write to the people who organise the changing rooms and suggest that along with the "no running, no diving in the shallow end, no spitting, no bombing" notice, they should add "no indecent exposure in the shared space area".

Then there will be howls of outrage from men who will protest that it would never even occur to them to wave their willy around in public. Though they never complain that it would never occur to them to dive in the shallow end, so those messages should be scrapped.

Hmm.

[SevenZarkSeven]

It's tricky though isn't it as there are cultural issues around nudity and stuff - bear with me here

So e.g. if I was with my kids and we saw a man at a mixed changing rooms with no clothes on who was minding his own business and i don't know nipping out to a locker or something then it wouldn't bother me

I know that would bother other people though.

And of course the main problem with these men wasn't that one had no clothes on it was the sexualised behaviour and talk in a mixed environment. Even if he had had some swim trunks on, the behaviour in the pool and the conversations / laughing with his mates swearing and joking about cocks is a problem.

And this is where it gets difficult as YOU know it's all wrong and I know it's all wrong but when you try and complain about stuff like this often all you get back is prudery / just a laugh / nudity in a changing room what's the prob / banter etc etc and they (whoever) don't take it seriously.

I bet there are some people who would be itching to say OMG you want a man arrested for being nude in a swimming pool changing room!

Not saying that is how specific people who you might tell with this will react but we've all been there where we've tried to explain something that was really upsetting in real life and just been made to feel like you're making a fuss over nothing. It has to me anyway - and by female close friends unbelievably

There is a huge societal pressure and socialisation to ignore / shut up / laugh it off / don't mention it etc.

[SevenZarkSeven]

Not trying to put you off BTW! Just thinking out loud stuff around this is so interesting to me how we all react etc.

I think you should def write and/or police 101 as others have suggested whatever you feel you want to do

[velveteenbunny]

Anyone trying to defend this behaviour (and I know nobody on this thread is doing that) needs to think about how an 11 year old girl would have felt if she'd have tried to use the changing rooms alone while this was going on. It's really out of order.

[manlyalmondcakes]

I would report it to the police. The likely outcome of that will be that they will speak to staff at the swimming pool, the management will realise that they should have a policy in place and their staff should adhere to it, if they want to avoid getting into trouble in the future.

[CaptainFracasse]

Agree with seven here. It's not the nudity they is an issue. It's the talking and 'having a lard' they is.
I think it's also to be into context of 5 men who already had pushed the OP and her dd on the side if the pool and took the whole pool for them ie in some ways they have already displayed some intimidating behaviour (even if not so bad you could call the police for that iyswim)

[ApocalypseThen]

I wonder whether any other women who use those changing rooms have experienced anything similar, and whether they might be prepared to join in action with you?