Rules for dating my son

[cato75]

I've just seen a horrible post on my Facebook. As a mother to two girls this has made me feel really angry.

Rules for dating my son
He is not your ATM
If you dress like a stripper I will make you go away
I brought him up as a gentleman, you had best be a lady

Various other nasties about 'tricking my son into putting a ring on your finger'.

I know this is just facebook rubbish. Why would anyone spread this rubbish?

[wafflyversatile]

Its a response to one about rules about dating my daughter from a feminist dad. Her body her choice, not mine, not yours is the gist of that one, iirc.

Of you can find it maybe post in response saying something about how sad it is that people have to respond to such a respectful message with sexist tripe.

[SoonToBeSix]

Um I agree with all the above , wouldn't post them as " rules "on Facebook though.

[cato75]

Waffly - just googled and read the feminist father article...I don't make the rules, you don't make the rules. I see what you mean now.

[wafflyversatile]

Soon, you'd control who your son dates?

[DadWasHere]

'My Little Man' reached dating age.

[SoonToBeSix]

No waffly I wouldn't make rules , I just think they are good princi

[SoonToBeSix]

Principles.

[DadWasHere]

Its a response to one about rules about dating my daughter from a feminist dad. Her body her choice, not mine, not yours is the gist of that one, iirc.

I think you mean this one?

abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/dadst-shirt-outlines-rules-daughters-dating/story?id=24215979

I dont see it as rules of a feminist father at all, I see it as rules of a White Knight father, although its a step up from the Black Knight crap listed in the second picture.

[CaptChaos]

A White Knight father?

Oh dear me!

So.... White Knights are men who respect the women in their lives? How terribly unfeminist of them. I can see why you MRAs hate them so much

[ChunkyPickle]

There's been loads of these 'rules for dating my X' going around for years, but that's the first time I've seen the feminist one - it's good, nothing that made me shudder at all (unlike the other ones which all sound so possessive)

[AskBasil]

White knight?

That implies rescuing a woman, doesn't it?

What's the dad in this scenario rescuing her from?

[YouMakeMeHappy]

What an extremely classy t-shirt that is. I'll have to buy one for my husband so everyone knows what a good dad he is

[wafflyversatile]

I'd cringe to see a man actually wear that t-shirt but the sentiment is refreshing. I don't see it as White Knight. If White Knight and Black Knight are 'things' I'm not familiar with them.

[LurcioAgain]

I thought "white knight" was generally meant to be taken as the sort of man who "rescues" you from an awkward situation before making it clear that he now feels himself entitled to make a play for you by way of reward for being "such a nice guy" (e.g. intervening with a group of men who are sexually harrassing you in a bar, steers you away by the elbow, then buys you a drink and propositions you himself). I don't see that the feminist dad's rules can be construed as that sort of behaviour.

Soon - interesting you see your advice to your son in those terms. My main concerns in bringing up my son are to bring him up to be respectful of others - their decisions, emotions, right to their own physical space and boundaries. I trust that having brought him up to see that this is right for others, he will in turn expect them to treat him with equal respect. And, ta dah! Job done. He is a decent human being towards others, and that (hopefully) has the knock on effect of him having a sense of his own self worth too, without having to demonise the whole of the opposite sex as potential gold diggers/sluts/whatever other vile woman hating crap was on that facebook page.

[DadWasHere]

Yea, I was being loose in thinking about behaviours and using language. The second T-shirt is pretty straight forward, black knight father locks away his princess in a tower where she cannot be fucked even if that’s what she wants. He is the zealous guardian of her safety and chastity, at cost of her personal agency. Guard dog off the leash barking at any male who approaches.

The first T-shirt I have a problem with because I don’t see it as 'Rules for dating my daughter', I see it as a step up from the other shirt 'Rules for not fucking my daughter' to 'Rules for not raping my daughter' In my opinion its the lending of empowerment to the daughter to act as the gatekeeper of sex, the implication being that the father is still there to enforce his daughters rules as guard dog if let off the leash. I do not see it as an effective message or a positive one. Could it not be rewritten as 'You don’t make the rules pal, she makes the rules, you read that loud and clear?' I see no functional difference in the feelings or message communicated.

The gender reversal of the shirt would go-
Rules for dating my Son:
I dont make the rules.
You dont make the rules.
He makes the rules.
His body, his rules.

Ichhh. Well, that sounds just plain weird, but why?

My rules for dating my kid:
I dont make the rules.
Define your rules.
Respect each others.
Recognise deal-breakers.

[AskBasil]

Oh I see.

Your argument is that it's invalid to recognise that there are fathers out there who are as you describe "guard dog off the leash" and to produce a response to them?

And then you seem to be going on to say that the whole thing is invalid because for it to be valid, we would need to have rules for daughters and sons, not just daughters.

The problem being that that ignores the actual context in which our sons and daughters will be operating in society. The chance that my DD will be coerced into having sexual encounters she doesn't want, is massively higher than that my DS will be. I think that's worth addressing, even if you might quibble with the way it's addressed. (Oh and that's why your gender reversal of the t-shirt sounds wierd - because 25% of all boys are not going to be raped or sexually assaulted while 25% of girls are at some point. So to pretend that boys face the same sexual issues girls do, is to ignore reality.)

[MorrisZapp]

I don't like the t-shirt thing. It's the bit about 'she makes the rules' I dont really get.

In a couple, both parties should have equal status. I just feel a bit off about this.

[sausageeggbacon11]

DD is comfortable in her space and makes her own rules. If a guy tries to push limits he is dumped.

DS1 is pretty comfortable with girls and he has his guidelines (some of which I have pounded into him) he will be fine as he gets older and the relationships he gets into will at least be partially his boundaries.

DS2 is a whole other issue, shy around girls and at that awkward age where he is easily influenced. He does understand boundaries but I worry about some of the girls who seem to like him. I can't protect him forever but I will as long as I can. And yes I will bet any girl who he brings home.

[sausageeggbacon11]

Sorry I will vet any girl he brings home.

[AskBasil]

How on earth can you vet any girl he brings home?

What does the vetting consist of?

[MorrisZapp]

The rules are for dating. That's what it says. So in my view, they both make the rules.