What is my dog's breed?

[EEVEElution]

This is Charlie. He was sold to us as a cavalier King Charles spaniel, I have seen the papers for his mum and dad, however he's grown rather bigger than he was 'supposed' to! I'm not sure how easy it is to fake papers, but many people who meet him assume he's a springer spaniel so thought id ask for opinions from mumsnetters. Just a big cavalier or mixed with something else?

[EEVEElution]

Couple more pics

[flanjabelle]

Hmm he's got a cav sort of face but body is very Springer. I would say he is a cross.

[Aked]

He does look like a huge Cav! I'd also go with Springer x Cav

[basildonbond]

Do you have a photo of him standing? Those legs look way too long to be a pure bred Cav - is he registered with the kennel club?

[basildonbond]

Ps. He looks gorgeous btw whatever he is

[TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge]

Looks like Cav x Springer

[EEVEElution]

That's him standing - he isn't KC registered, but I do have photos of the mum and dads documentation, although I suppose there's no proof they really are his mum and dad. I think he must be part springer! He's our baby anyway so it doesn't matter :) but it would be nice to know the real details to know if there is any ill medical history. Suppose we will never know!

[pantsjustpants]

A friend of mine recently had her dogs breed analysed. I assume by blood test/DNA. No idea how much it cost but I'll happily ask her for details if you want to go that far.

[Corneliusmurphy]

I think pet dna testing often shows up on the Amazon Black Friday deals, am sure it wasn't extortionate either.

[marne2]

You can get a DNA test from around £70 I think. I have a kc reg dog that doesn't look like what she is supposed to be, I saw her mother who was obviously pure bread but stupidly did not see the father ( assumed all was ok, they did offer to show me dad ), I think it's quite easy to fake papers.

[MitchellMummy]

Not sure that the DNA tests are worth it. I think you may need to supply a picture of the dog, so any results are based on guesswork. I could be wrong, but don't want you wasting your money!

[Lonecatwithkitten]

Proper KC papers that you change the registration into your name by sending them are what you should get then you know the dog is registered.
Some of the very 'old' cavaliers are much bigger and can be up to about 18kg in weight the are heavier set and have a bigger wider head. They are actually less prone to the breed problems than the modern petit type.

[EEVEElution]

That's interesting, I'd never thought of a DNA test! Any info would be appreciated :) if it's not too expensive it could be worth doing just to satisfy my curiosity!

[LoathsomeDrab]

The DNA tests to ascertain breed are notoriously inaccurate, I really wouldn't bother unless you can get a kit cheaply and view it as just a bit of fun rather than useful information.

If you're concerned about health, especially as he's at least part cav, then you could look into screening tests for common issues. My greatest concern with a cav cross would be their heart as MVD is so common in cavs.

If you're reasonably confident that the bitch was actually his dam you can use the KC site to look up any health tests she has had done. There's also an online database of cavalier pedigrees so it would be possible to look up results for dogs further back as well, though I'm not sure how far back the health test database goes.

[EEVEElution]

These replies are really useful, thanks. The breed certificates for the mum and dad (sorry don't know the doggy term) don't look like they're issued by KC but they have the names of the dogs on, could I look it up though that? I met the mum and she looked like Charlie but was smaller iirc, it was a year ago though so memory is a bit vague.

[Floralnomad]

I know someone with a large Cavalier spaniel , she looks similar to your boy . She is actually beautifully bred and very healthy ,the owners thoroughly researched and waited for the litter from a particular breeder .She was the largest pup in the litter and has always been on the large side ,apparently her litter mates are normal sized .

[DrSeuss]

I would say that's a Bitzer. Bitzer this, Bitzer that!

[MillyMollyMandy78]

We have a very large cavalier. KC registered, knew owners of mum and dad. People are often surprised when they see him as often towers a couple of inches over others of the same breed. Your dog looks very much like ours and i think it is down to the legs. Most cavaliers seem a bit less leggy whereas yours and ours have a much longer look to the legs. I think this is why they are overall bigger in size.

[MillyMollyMandy78]

Although just looked again at the close up of the face and i'm sorry but the snout looks too long and slender for a cav. I have changed my mind and will say cross springer-cav too! Whatever he is, he's absolutely gorgeous!

[Azquilith]

Nose looks a bit long for a cav. But he's very cute.

[LoathsomeDrab]

The breed certificates for the mum and dad (sorry don't know the doggy term) don't look like they're issued by KC but they have the names of the dogs on, could I look it up though that?

The dogs need to be KC registered to be able to look them up. You pop their full KC name in here and it will bring up the results of any tests they have had done.

Do the certificates have a registration body on other than the KC? An official KC one should look like one of these two depending on when it was issued.

[FiveHoursSleep]

We had our GSD X's DNA tested a couple of years ago. We used a Wisdom Panel Insights test, available from Amazon for around £60.
You don't send a photo, just a cheek swab, name and approximate age and three week's later you get a report with the results.
We knew our pup was half GSD but weren't sure if mum was full GSD. It told us she was ( both GPs on that side were GSD) and his father was half rough collie and a little less than half St Bernard!
It's an interesting and as far as I can tell, fairly accurate exercise.

[Letthemtalk]

Having just returned from meeting my mum's new cavalier king Charles, your beautiful dog looks like a springer cavalier cross, his nose is longer than a ckc, and he's much bigger. He is lovely though.

[EEVEElution]

He is great, he's a rascal though! This is him as a puppy last year, I'm going to have a look for the pics of the certificates I have, just did a quick search for the dad's name and he's definitely not on the KC website.

[SqueakyChicken]

I'd say your boy is full Cavalier. The breed do vary in size quite a lot, and if he isn't KC registered the likelihood is he comes from pet lines and is not 'well-bred' so to speak. Sorry don't want to offend! He is lovely either way :)