Dane bitch acting like a boy?

[extremepie]

We have 2 Great Danes, one boy and one girl both about a year (boy slightly older).

Neither have been 'done' yet although the girl will be soon, she has had one season and is not due another one any time soon.

Recently the girl dane has been, um....'mounting' the boy, as if she was the boy and he was the girl. She doesn't do anything once she gets there, she just sort of gets 'into position' then looks around and gets down!

The boy doesn't seem bothered at all but I just thought it was a little bit....weird?

Does any one know why she might be doing this? Is it a hormone thing?

I looks so funny to watch!

[wildfig]

She's just playing with him! Is she the more dominant of the two normally? I have quite a strong-willed girl, and whenever she goes to stay with her female (canine) relations, the first thing she does is give them a quick hump to remind them who's boss. She manages to do it while staring into space in a dignified fashion too, as if a lady of her standing wouldn't dream of doing such a thing.

[wildfig]

Although, obvs, if neither of them have been 'done' I'd keep a very very close eye on them...

[TeaTeaLotsOfTea]

Is it because she's trying to encourage him?

[theodorakis]

She is dominating him. Mounting is a way of the top dog showing the rest of the pack who is boss. If he isn't bothered it sounds as if they have already established their pecking order and sound like happy secure dogs to me. Since my old boy died my tiny female has been mounting everything in sight, her particular favourites are our old ginger tomcat and her soft toy. She's just trying to work out where she stands, we completely ignore it and the cat isn't bothered.

[Midori1999]

She's not trying to dominate him at all, it is just play/over excitement. Humping is normal doggy behaviour for dogs and bitches.

However, are you absolutely sure she is not due in season any time soon, as entire bitches often show increased humping behaviour before a season starts.

[theodorakis]

Yes humping is normal dog behaviour BUT it is about who is boss.

[theodorakis]

from Canine Concepts.

In the wild, the mounting behaviour of wolves is the ultimate statement of dominance and rank. With rank comes the right to mate with limited females.
Often during play fights, dogs are seen to place paws on top of other dogs or even mount other dogs. This can be for the purposes of procreation, but in the majority of cases this is a dominance behaviour, that has no sexual intent. This behaviour is not gender specific and can be seen in both male to male, female to female, male to female and vice-versa.
It is not unusual during puberty for young dogs to display mounting behaviour. As well as the excessive hormone activity, they are also going through the process of understanding and determining their rank within the pack. The pack in this case include you and your family!
In many ways, constant mounting can be seen as a sign of insecurity within a dog. The dog in question is seeking re-assurance that it is in charge. The response from the mounted dog indicates to what extent they accept the control of other dog. A dog that growls and pushes the other dog off, is in essence not accepting the control of the other dog. On the other hand, dogs that accept it and appear intimidated are signalling their subservience. Confident dogs are often seen to completely ignore being mounted and give the impression of not caring less.

[MiseryBusiness]

This is normal behaviour for dogs and bitches. It's just excited play. She isnt trying to dominate.

Domestic dogs are not the same as wolves.

[SpaghettiTwirlerAndProud]

Theodorakis, domestic dogs do not live in packs. They don't even think they live in a pack. The pack theory is completely outdated and wrong. Domestic dogs are domestic dogs. Wild dogs are wild dogs. Wolves are wolves. All are different animals and not related in any way, shape, or form.

[theodorakis]

ok then

[Flatbread]

Er, no. I don't think pack theory is outdated and dogs do live in hierarchies, like most other pack animals, including humans.

[Flatbread]

And yes, sometimes humping is about dominance. Not always, but depending on the situation, it could well be the case.

[SnoopyKnine]

Oh god not again. Dominance theory is tosh.

Humping can be play, can be emotion and is often shown by less confident dogs. Many bitches will start the humping behaviour after being spayed.

Please read on why dominance is outdated and incorrect

another one

There are many more if you want to get up to date

[Flatbread]

There are different perspectives out there. You may believe one theory, others will believe something else and yet others some middle path between the two.

i think dogs do form loose packs and need to understand their place in the family hierarchy to feel secure. You might feel they are free spirits, doing their own thing.

Each to their own.

[SpaghettiTwirlerAndProud]

If you say so Flatbread

[SnoopyKnine]

Trouble is it is not a "theory" it is fact that dominance is tosh. Please read the books.

I do not think they are free spirits as to why you think that.

[Flatbread]

Snoopy,

The point is that there are books which say theory A is correct and theory B is tosh and the reverse. Every time someone talk about packs, dominance, hierarchies and boundaries, some people just jump in and say all that is tosh because 'dominance theory' is tosh.

Well, yes, if you set up an extreme case strawman of modern dogs behaving exactly like wolves. But there are plenty of nuanced views on why some dogs try to dominate others, how they do it (humping as an example), why dogs need leaders and why boundaries are important.

I think even Gwen Bailey talks about it with regard to puppies. Cesar Milan is not all about choke collars. He actually makes sense regarding establishing calm, assertive leadership. It is not all black and white

Anyway, to the OP, a nuanced view on humping, while distinguishes between playful humping, stress-related humping and dominance humping.
www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/7_3/features/Dog-Mounting-Behavior_5615-1.html

[theodorakis]

Holy fuck, where did you people train?

[Midori1999]

Pack or dominance theory was based on studies of captive wolf packs. It has since been shown that this was/is flawed because the wolves studied were not natural family packs, but in fact captive groups made up of unrelated wolves and would not have been packs in the wild. Even wild wolves do not behave like the wolves in the studies, let alone domestic dogs, which are clearly not wolves and do not behave like them.

Some good info here if anyone bothers to read:

www.4pawsu.com/dogpsychology.htm

This is interesting too, Jean Donaldson is a highly respected behaviourist and author:

jeandonaldson.com/jeans-blog-mainmenu-51/64-are-dogs-pack-animals

A number of animal welfare and dog behaviour/training organisations support the idea that dominance theory is outdated too and also that it leads to animal welfare issues in dog training, these include, but aren't exclusive to The Dogs Trust, RSPCA, APBC and the APDT, all well known and respected organisations.

Some info here:

www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/why-not-dominance.php

[theodorakis]

Its a theory and you believe in it. I don't. It's not a competition.

[SnoopyKnine]

I am not sure what the definition of theory is but if that is meaning a well researched scientifically and evidenced based conclusion then fine it is just a theory

However I do find it so sad that people are reluctant to educate themselves and just dismiss a proven fact. Good job most of us are not so small minded or we would still think the world is flat and would still think smoking cleared the lungs.

Personally I like to read and learn but each to their own.

[theodorakis]

I object to being called small minded because I don't agree with a theory. I also find the tone offensive and agressive.

[Midori1999]

What don't you believe? It would be helpful if you explained.

[SnoopyKnine]

"Holy fuck, where did you people train?" is not offensive?

[theodorakis]

But you people march into threads declaring that your word is the word and you clearly do not like it when you are challenged. It's not a dog knowledge competition and other people are just as entitled to voice their opinions and theories as you are. I assume you do have formal qualifications?