Advice badly needed-dh slapped ds tonight... SORRY ,LONG!

[WMOT]

I have name-changed here as I know some MNers in RL and don't want to talk to them about it as I feel I need impartial advice.

Earlier this evening I told ds1 to go to bed. (He's 13 BTW). Predictably he faffed about for a few minutes and DH came in and told him to go to bed too. A minute or so later I repeated it, then DH chipped in, whereupon ds1 sneered (DH's word) at him and told him to butt out, or something similar. DH then slapped ds1 on the face. It wasn't hard, there was no red mark, but it shocked ds1 and infuriated me. Ds1 went up for his bath and seemed to be quite happy in his bath, singing etc. He was ok when I kissed him goodnight.

That's the background of tonight.

It's not the first time dh has done something like this. Previously he has bodily lifted ds1 upstairs, clipped him around the top of the head and pushed him aside etc.

I don't know what to think of all this. Ds1 deliberately, on his own admission, sets out to 'needle' DH. (DH is not ds1's bio dad. Ds1 sees his bio dad every fortnight and has a good, although undisicplined, relationship with him.) DH demands respect from ds1 but has a short fuse if he feels he is not getting it. (Sorry, more background- dh is ds1's 'father' in most respects- he supports him fully financially, helps with hw, comes to school meetings etc)

Ds1 has always had a tendency to exaggerate and will 'big up' most situations to his advantage and he has exaggerated things with dh sometimes, not realising I am present and can see what has happened.

I have spoken to dh about this before and he promised me that he would not touch ds1 at all in future (apart from hugs etc). But, although he has apologised for upsetting me this evening, he does not feel any guilt or remorse for slapping ds1.

(I'm ashamed to say that I slapped dh earlier, after the above occurred.)

I'm so worried about it all. Ds1 has his problems, he is (and always has been) a 'difficult' kid but he IS a kid and I must protect him. I feel that DH should be able to control himself, especially as he KNOWS that ds1 is trying to needle him.

Where do I go from here?

[hobbgoblin]

He (DH) may regain a modicum of control over his SDS with this approach, and it really is a shame (but v. common) that his authority is being tested as it is. (Not so surprising if he gets little parenting/discipline from his bio Dad).

If it were me, I'd explain to DH that DS obviously values his SD and the parenting he gets from him enough to challenge it, and thus this a cornerstone opportunity in securing their long and happy future together as father and son. Get it right now and they will have a close bond for years to come and SS will become a trusted figure in the eyes of his 13 year old SS through his troublesome teens! However, if the weakness of control is shown by resorting to a physical release of frustration then the respect will be eroded a little each time. Keepign the upperhand with respect and trust is imperative right now and will be secretly appreciated by SS. Also subconsciously and consciously he will feel strongly and lovingly parented if his SD can keep calm but remain in control.

How to do this might involve reading Cod's bible - How to Talk So kids will listen....

And other stuff..!

[hobbgoblin]

Sorry, am terribly confusing self with the SD DS DH DSSS
SSSSSSSSSS's here

[WMOT]

hobbgoblin thank you for your advice. I was very worried that I would be flamed for not leaving the house immediately with the dcs as dh is so abusive etc. (Although that may yet come, I suppose.)

I hadn't thought of saying that to dh. Or if I did, I certainly haven't put it so eloquently. (DSSS/DHS/SDS/SSSSSSSS's etc notwithstanding )I will certainly tell him though, or perhaps even show him this thread.

I feel calmer now.

[hobbgoblin]

Of course it's not great that any of you whacked each other, but your DS very obviously and deliberately wound up your DH. Your DH is human, he doesn't use smacking as his one and only parenting technique I'm assuming, and tbh. your DS (inncoently, as he is a child) probably would have provoked him for as long as he could until your DH gave in and lost it. The key is to not lose it of course but that takes practise.

When kids push, it's to find out your limits (of control, of love, of patience, etc.)

Has your DH apologised? Has your DS? They both ought to think about doing so, even if both don't choose to. Apology with explanation not excuse. That would be good.

If they like to share a joke maybe DH could FB message him something like http://www.funny-games.biz/cartoon/dads_home.html this (couldn't check link as parental control on!)

I think you have to get creative when it's men and boys communicating - particularly through teen years. Notes and humour alongside the odd heart to heart.

I don't condone smacking for me or you or anyone but the truth is it happens to so many of us when under pressure.

Sometimes, especially with step families, indifference is worse than a smack that is deeply regretted.

[solidgoldbullet4myvalentine]

YOu mention that your DH has a 'short fuse'. Does this normally manifest in hitting or otherwise abusing people who are smaller/younger/weaker than him if they don't obey him and 'respect' him?
It's basically not easy to tell from your posting whether this is a case of a basically decent bloke who snapped under pressure, or of a bully who thinks he owns everyone else in the house.

[WMOT]

Neither one has apologised to each other yet. I always try to see that apologies are offered although dh sometimes refuses to accept an apology from ds1 if he doesn't feel it's truly meant.

DH doesn't regret the smack at the moment but probably will after he's calmed down. He's not an unreasonable person.

Have I , perhaps, over-reacted a little here?
It's so difficult to understand them both, especially as my own parents divorced when I was young and so have no experience of how dad dealt with my brothers etc.

I do wish they (ds and dh) could share some kind of hobby or interest but maybe that's not something that all dads do anyway, regardless of biology? Dunno. And a different thread anyway.

[WMOT]

solidgold-no no and definitely no. He usually has reams of patience,( for example spending whole evenings trying to help ds1 with homework), but finds ds1's needling very hard to take.

He is strict but ds1 has assured me (on other, unrelated occasions) that he feels that dh is 'his friend', that he is 'strict but fair' and that he loves him.

His bio dad also tells me that he hears the same from ds1 about dh.

My post wasn't clear, I'm sorry. I was a bit fraught.

[JodieO]

What do you mean by needling? What could he have done or said to "make" your dh slap him?

[WMOT]

He has recently started a new job, supersal, which has caused him to work late through the evenings. I hadn't thought of that.

We are both finding ds1 hard work at the moment- he has been on report at school for not doing homework, ignoring teachers etc etc and we have had a couple of meetings with the vp about it. Ds1 has been making more of an effort recently though and has been getting good reports form school- for the most part.

I think a lot of the problem is that ds's behaviour is alien to dh as he himself was very well-behaved and respectful of his parents when he was a teenager. I do sometimes, also, get from dh the assertion that well-behaved teenagers are the norm rather than the exception and he quotes 'people from work' (parents of teens) as his proof to back this up.

I do feel so torn between them both though.

[hobbgoblin]

JodieO you are a contentious Saint, evidently.

[JodieO]

hobbgoblin why the need for the sarcasm? It was a simple question I asked. I have my reasons so don't talk to me like that when you don't even know me.

[JodieO]

You know what, fuck it, I'll tell you anyway. I asked my h to leave 6 months ago after 10 years and 3 children because he was abusive and slapping comes under that category imo esepcially for a child. Choice between partner and child, is not a choice, my children every time.

[hobbgoblin]

I suppose so, but it reads to me as "what could the poor child possibly have done to provike this?" Which, is a bit 'oh gosh!' 'oh my!' imo

Did you mean that or were you just asking without rhetoric?

[JodieO]

oh gosh is the last phrase you'd ever hear me say.. same goes for the other one

[WMOT]

JodieO- needling is where ds will sneer, make rude comments, refuse to do as he's asked/told, even swear. (f word). He'll tell dh to 'shut up' if dh backs me up in a reprimand. Ds calls it 'winding dh up'.

But nothing "makes" anyone slap anyone. It's wrong to slap. I know that.

[JodieO]

WMOT does ds say why he does this or why he feels the need?

[WMOT]

JodieO when I asked ds why he does this he shrugged and said 'because dh gets so annoyed'. He seemed to think it was funny!? He does say at other times that he knows it's wrong and that he shouldn't do it but he does it again anyway.

I don't know if it's relevant but when ds visits his dad, his (ds's) wants are entirely catered for. xdh does no disciplining, doesn't feed him healthy food, allows him to stay up as late as he likes etc. Then when he comes home he's back into our routine which dh is strict about. xdh tells me that the behaviour I speak of at home is unknown to him. Ds1 seems to want to push very hard against our boundaries.

[WMOT]

Thank you, supersal, btw.We have sat down and discussed this in the past but have been lax recently about doing it. It's obviously time to do it again.

[WMOT]

The boundaries aren't excessive, I don't think, supersal. Homework to be done on time, doing as he's asked or told, minimal chores. Earlier bedtime than some because he needs the sleep. We've just lifted the time restriction on xbox, merely limiting it to after homework, chores (yet to be decided) and anythign he's asked to do. I hoped this would give him a more 'adult' sense of responsibility. We don't tolerate swearing, though. Or tantrums. He has tantrums quite a lot still.

DH and I set the boundaries and keep xdh up to date with what's going on. Perhaps we should ask ds for more input- maybe he would stick to things more then?

I must get some sleep. Thank you, everyone, for your help and input. I'll check back tomorrow.