Just a whinge, not sure what to think/feel

[silverfrog]

Hmm, well, not sure if dh is being an arse.

We have been together 10 years, married 8. I was not the other woman, he has been separated from ex for 17 years now. He has 2 children from that marriage, now both adults.

It is dsd's 21st this year. Relations with his ex have not been cordial to say the least - lots of game playing, withholding contact etc. Several court cases, orders ignored etc.

At times she has been ok, though, and we have managed a few occasions where everyone has gathered, including dh & my 2 dds - eg to support dss in a fun run he did (we all had lunch afterwards), dss' confirmation, etc.

Anyway, dsd and her mum have come up with a plan for dsd's 21st. Dsd wants a weekend abroad, with mum and dh going too. Dsd has history of not accepting her parents' split, and still says things like "i wish you and mum were still together". She doesn't remember a time when this was true. Dsd and I get on well, and she loves her younger sisters.

I feel a bit gutted, tbh. I know I am being childish, but it hurts.

For 10 years I have done everything for dsd and dss, really honestly everything. Obviously everything at home, eg cooking, washing, homework, but also researching stuff for het when her mum couldn't be bothered. Dsd is at uni now, doing a course she loves because I spent weeks working out how she could get there (she is not academically gifted), and took the time to listen to what she wanted to do, and helped her make this possible.

I have spent countless hours going through stuff with her (dyslexic, dyspraxic, AS), everything from teaching her how to separate out washes, to basic cooking, the lot.

And not a suggestion that I might want to come to celebrate her birthday too. And there won't be another proper celebration, she won't want one.

It just feels wrong to me. And dh only says that if he speaks up (he agrees it doesn't sit right to go and play happy.families for the weekend) he won't get to celebrate with her either. And I do understand that, but it still hurts. And if he doesnt tackle it now, what else will dds & I be left out of in future?

I can see it's a tricky one, but he did say he would raise it with dsd gently (entirely possible she hasn't thought pf it like that, although also possible she knows exactly what she is doing), but tonight, dsd brought it up, and not a mention at all.

Sometimes I feel like saying bollocks to it all - it really feels like I am unpaid househelp at times.

Sorry for mammoth whinge, just wanted to get it all out and not let it fester.

[glasscompletelybroken]

I'd be gutted too. I don't know what the answer is but I think this will be really hard for you and not necessarily the best thing for your DSD. She is at Uni and living independantly and she should be mature enough to accept the situation and have some empathy for you. It's a real danger in step-families that parents will over-compensate through guilt and there children can grow up thinking they are the only people who matter. Everyone needs to learn the basic social skill of seeing things from another persons point of view - even step-children! One of the things I find hardest as a step-mum is this feeling of never really belonging and always being on the outside - however hard you try and however much you do for them. Sometimes you may think you're really making some progress and then something happens - like this for you - and you're right back to where you started.
This is a really tough one but if you can accept this and let it happen then you are a bigger person than I am and your DH and DSD are fantastically lucky to have you.
Good luck.

[wildfish]

Hi Silverfrog,

I don't think your DH is being a complete arse (i can understand his position). Sounds a bit like dsd mum engineered the arrangement. Though I can see the appeal from DSD's view too.

But I don't think you are being childish either or whinging, you've been through a lot and a long time.

The only compensation you have is knowing that you've always done the right thing by your DH and DSD. Try to continue to be the better person.

If you've all managed to be together in the past, sounds like there should be an opportunity again. Even for part of this 21st weekend away. I think your DH should broach it gently - though not as an ultimatum (sorry).

[silverfrog]

glasscompletelybroken - "It's a real danger in step-families that parents will over-compensate through guilt and there children can grow up thinking they are the only people who matter. Everyone needs to learn the basic social skill of seeing things from another persons point of view" I really agree with this bit.

I can't help but feel that to tacitly go along with this situation is sending out all the wrong messages. I am coming to this form a background of dh's family being total arses about our marriage, btw - they harp on at any opportunity how second marriages are not as valid, one BIL has refused to meet our dds, other BIL has said his only SIL is dh's ex, his "real" nephew/niece dss and dsd, etc. I know none of this has been said by dsd, but she has grown up with htese views around her. And I do think dh ought to be at the least pointing out a few truths about the situation.

wildfish - no need to apologise . I owuldn't dream of an ultimatum (I haven't issued one over dh's clearly bonkers family either - not my place to lay down the law like that). Not possible to just be there for part of the weekend away - it's a holiday abroad. We would have to book now, arrange childcare for dds, etc.

I can understand dh's position - I owuld hate to not be able to attend my children's clebrations. I understand that totally. But at the same time, I am a child of divorced parents, and there is no way I would have ignored partners in this way. The one thing dh has yet to ask (shying away form it, I think) is whether ex's partner os going too. It would be likely, I think. If so, that is just outrageous. If not, then dsd is trying to engineer a false situation - dh and ex don't get on. They would of course be polite and civil for the weekend, and probably relax and enjoy it. But he comes home from evenings such as parents evenings at school (in the past, obviously) fuming at how much his ex winds him up (and I am sure she goes home thinking similar).

I cannot fathom why this would be a good idea, it jsut seems like dsd wants something to be true that isn't, and I am not sure whether indulging her in that is a good idea.

[SingingTunelessly]

Silverfrog - I read that with growing disbelief that your DH could even begin to think about going along with this ridiculously hurtful to you 'plan'. I am a SM as well and know just what a thankless task it is at times but this takes the biscuit.

Honestly, he needs to say 'No' and mean it. Totally agree with glasscompletelybroken's take on it as well.

[theredhen]

DSD is a grown woman. I really think that your husband and his ex pandering to her like this is not healthy or good for anyone, least of all DSD.

I think my main issue would be with husband who should very nicely but very clearly say that his wife comes too and I think he should have enough back bone to not go if necessary.

I would also be very inclined to talk to my step daughter nicely about it too and explain how you feel. All the time people keep pandering to her, she may honestly have no idea how left out you feel.

[ElenorRigby]

lol who's paying for this?
If it's the ex's idea your DH should say fine, your idea, you pay for it all. That should sort it out!
Good grief silverfrog, seriously I would be livid, your DH needs to sort this out ASAP.

[silverfrog]

oh, it's just all so impossible.

if asked, dsd would just say "but I just want my parents together for my birthday. you did for dss'" (true - BUT it was a dinner, and I was invited but couldn't attend - childcare issues, dd1 is ASD and we were having a really tough time with her at that point. I made dss a cake, and dh took that up to the restaurant for all to share (dss really appreciated this))

as for paying, well there's a laugh too.

last night dsd dropped in "mummy doesn't think you should pay for all of it, she's happy to put somethign towards it"

(although I shouldn't be - it's always about money somewhere down the line)

my guess would be that dh ends up paying more than half.

and I really don't want to be unreasonable. this weekend would be on dsd's birthday, so that wuold be one thing dh normally doesn't get to enjoy (cuold count on one hand the number of times he's had them on their birthdays over the last 17 years)

but (and there's still that but!) - it's just so fake. dsd wants to go to Italy. (so do I!) - really can't see them all wandering around the cultural bits without dh and ex biting their tongues lots.

[ElenorRigby]

lol silverfrog I did come up with the solution!
If its the ex's idea let her pay! Problem solved. :o
Another reason to stop this charade, your DSD should not be allowed to think her dad is a cash machine to provide her with whatever she wants. I am sorry but a 21st abroad is extravagant in my book especially in the middle of the worst recession/depression in living memory.

[silverfrog]

If only that was the solution, EleanorRigby

if dh tries to say ex should pay, going on past form, the trip would be cancelled because Big Bad Dad has refused to pay, and has spoilt all the fun again

Not even going to get into the cash machine aspect of it, except to say that has been, and long will be the general opinion, I fear.

The whole thing is a nightmare - go along with it, and dh is strongarmed into paying for somehting he doesn't agree with (dsd has already asked for her present, which dh has agreed. it is by no means inexpensive) - he doesn't agree both because the ask is a big one (especially following on form her present), and because it is a divisive thing to ask of him too.

Not go along with it, and he is ruining her 21st, and it reinforces everything ex has told the children over the years (that dh is stingy with money, that he doesn't care, that only his opinion counts, etc, etc)

I hate being part of a step family, sometimes.

[glasscompletelybroken]

Children and step-children grow up, move away and get on with their own lives. If, in the meantime, they choose to ruin their parent/step-parents relationship with this kind of unreasonable and divisive request then that is 100% selfish. It seems that your DSD has not realised that her parents wouldn't be together even if you 2 weren't together. Her dad would possibly be alone and facing a lonely future while she is off raising her own family and doing her own thing. If your DH doesn't agree to it he is not ruining her birthday - she has already done that herself by making such a request. If she ever does grow up she will realise the truth and know that her dad wasn't a bad person but was actually trying to do the best thing for everyone.

[ElenorRigby]

"Can't buy me love"
Sounds like the ex has had your DH on this hook for some time. Personally I would be despairing that it's continuing on even when his daughter's an adult. I really feel your pain both in the disregard of your feelings and him trying to buy his daughters affection.
So sorry your going through all this.
What would happen if you put your foot down over all this. Would your DH back you up?

Also you have children together, does this extravagance impact on them?

[colditz]

She has Asperger's Syndrome. Empathy is not something that happens in her head. Being cross with her for lacking empathy (the innate knowledge that someone would feel good/bad at a given situation) is like being cross with a deaf person for not listening.

[glasscompletelybroken]

You don't have to be cross with her for lacking empathy but that doesn't mean you can't point it out to her - she will have to make her way in the world and not everyone one will be so understanding. It doesn't do her any favours to just let things go. People who are deaf can't hear but they can still communicate.

[gottasmile]

I really sympathise - I hope everyone involved can start thinking about what a ridiculous idea this is.

I like slimbo's idea, or you could ask dh to be reasonable and tell dsd that you are part of her family now too and it's not fair for you to be left out.

[silverfrog]

Colditz, I am aware of the AS triad of impairments. My dd1 is ASD too. The empathy part, especially, is something that neither dsd nor dd1 (who is quite severely autistic) are that bad at.

You will have to take my word on it that this is the case, but please believe that I am not a wicked step mother castigatin.g dsd for something outside her control.

As I said above, it is possible that this has not crossed her mind, but unlikely. Again, this is from knowledge of dsd, how her AS affects her, rather tham a blanket application of symptoms, and past history. It is also probable that her mothers partner is going along (as yet unmentioned, bit I will eat several large hats of he doesn't. Again, knowledge gleaned from past history.)

Thanks all for the thoughts, I will ponder and talk to dh.

[superv1xen]

god sorry but your DSD sounds a right spoilt immature madam.

[colditz]

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that her demands are reasonable - they aren't, and she needs to be told that they aren't, and why they aren't.

My Ds1 has ASD and he will, without fail, bring me a glass of water if he has reason to believe I am ill. It's not empathy, he doesn't somehow 'know' I'd like a glass of water (although it does feel eerily like he's reading my mind sometimes) - it's just that he has worked out that whenever I ask for a glass of water from him, I follow it with "Because I'm poorly". So to him, Poor = wants water.

maybe to your DSD, birthdays mean having mum and dad together. It might be time to try to reset this little pattern.

[JaynieB]

silverfrog - I'm a step-mum too, so I feel your pain :)
I made it clear to DP there would be no more 'family' holidays once he and I started seeing each other because I thought it was unhealthy for the kids to have this picture of togetherness of their parents that was a sham for their benefit. He agreed and so did their Mum, so it didn't happen again.
I think what you're being asked to countenance here really sucks and I'd be very unhappy about it.
Would you like to go too? From what you have said, all this situation aside, you do have a good relationship with your DSD on many levels - could your DH point out that you too would like to celebrate her birthday rather than be excluded?

[silverfrog]

If I am being generous, I think what may have happened is:

birthdays = parties (especially big ones like 21)

at a party, all of us would be there together (I am assuming - I was certainly invited to dss'!) along with her friends.

dsd doesn't want a party, and so has pared it down to a family thing (still a bit at the asking, but overal, apart form the grating irritation of paying for ex + partner, we can afford it).

not entirely sure why I haven't been asked too, unless it is a desire to not have the dds along (which I understand form an adult weekend perspective, not so much if she is suddnely not counting them as family - she did describe them as "dad's children" when talking to a friend over the weekend). childcare less of an issue these days, so while we would take them along with us (no one to leave them with overnigth) we would also have a nanny with us to look after the children, adn I would dip in and out where possible. I would absolutely guarantee that the dds (only 6 and 3) would not disrupt at all, just as I have done at previous important family parties.

Interesting to see so many of you saying I should try to get dh to just say no. surely that would lead to jsut as much resentment on his part, as I now have on mine? two wrongs don't make a right, and all that.

I am not sure I have the right to say he shouldn't go on a trip with his daughter - it isn't up to me to veto who he sees, and celebrating your first born's 21st is quite a big thing, surely?

nothing is ever easy, is it?

[wildfish]

Silverfrog, the part that is grating me, is if your DH is paying for ex (bad enough) + partner (outrageous) but you are not going.

I'd agree with you not to veto his going, but if he's prepared to pay for ex+partner he should be saying you are going too, in the nicest but firm way.

"nothing is ever easy, is it?" --- no nothing ever is.

"surely that would lead to jsut as much resentment on his part, as I now have on mine? two wrongs don't make a right, and all that." --- says it all really, you're the good person trying to rise above it. Good on you. Hope it works out right.

[Petal02]

Silverfrog - your husband needs to grow some b*lls!!!! Your step daughter's request is immature and unhealthy (does she still believe in Father Christmas, BTW?) and your husband should not indulge her, or her meddling mother.

It's outrageous.

[silverfrog]

Well that's the thing,mj. Dh and his ex don't get on. At all. Let alone get on well and co-parent like you and your ex.

Honestly, after about an hour in each others company, the shipping starts, or the internal sighs, the clenching of teeth. It shouldn't, but it does.

Ever since the day he left, ex has been manipulative and point scoring. If it was going to be a scenario like you describe - 2 parents, who happen to be separated, going away with their child, then I'd be completely and utterly for it.

But it isn't that. It is 2 people who constantly bicker, who can barely speak to each other at times, and they are being manipulated into spending this time together.

I don't think its actually fair of dsd to ask her parents to do this anyway - its such a monumental waste of money, when they will just be itching to get away from each other.

And then we get to the part about me and our marriage being openly discussed amongst dh's family, and judged to be invalid. (dh's family are all bonkers, we are currently all but estranged, but ex isn't - she is welcomed still as though she were the sibling/child, not dh.)

So dsd has grown up thinking I don't count, in more ways than a traditional birth mother/step mother comparison. It has been all around her, from the earliest days of dh & my relationship.

I think dh is wrong to agree to go, for some of the reasons outlined above. I would not expect my child to behave on this way, and if dd2 did, I would tell her she was in the wrong. Dh has avoided all discussion on the subject. but the fact is he has agreed to go, and it is a bit late now for him to reopen discussions on who exactly is travelling g (although as I said earlier, I'd stake a lot on ex's partner going).

Having agreed to go, I have little choice but to accept it, as otherwise I am falling into the "your children, or me" classic ultimatum pattern.

But I think he is very wrong to have put me in this position, which is not an unfamiliar one, tbh, and I am still not sure how I feel about it.

[nomedoit]

I think you know how you feel about it Silverfrog! But you are trying to be super-nice.

This is one of the most ridiculous birthday ideas I have ever heard. You are married FFS! It is just deeply weird, tactless and unreasonable for your DH to be going on this trip and paying for it and not taking his wife. His love for his daughter, her birthday celebration and his loyalty to you can all be accommodated - by the simple solution of going somewhere where you are also invited. If she wants to go away for the weekend then you can go somewhere in the UK. Why does it have to be Italy? Has it been booked?
You DO count and I fear that if you don't assert yourself now that you are going to be resentful about this for a long time.