If you had the chance to talk to a group of NT children and parents about SN children what would you want then to know?

[TheArsenicCupCake]

I have the opportunity to talk to a large group of pre teens and teen and their parents about SN and bullying and what life as an SN family is like.

We've worked really hard to get to this point and I'm getting quite excited :)

it is going to be as a group of children who are the bullies or indirect bullies .. And will concentrate a little on asd.. But..

I would like to know what you guys would like to put across in terms of educating these dc's and their parents. :)

If I can change just one families attitude it will be worth. While.

So what do you want to tell them?

[auntevil]

OMG you've got a task on your hands - where do you start?

Regardless of SN i've always wondered what makes a bully think that they are so perfect they can comment on someone that doesn't live up to this ideal - insecurity i imagine.

Re the parents - the language that they use at home can directly impact on their children's views. My DH is unfortunately a classic - but i have worked hard on him. he will say insensitive things like; when he sees a car in a disabled bay parked as he would see it - badly, he will make comment that obviously the driver is disabled to be parking in that way. Not the fact that space may be needed to get a wheel chair in/out, etc. He also uses words like 'tard' and 'spas' - sometimes to describe himself when he has done something stupid.

DCs pick up on this. A lot of attitudes stem from the parents .

Their own insecurities probably stem from their parents as well.

that just sounded like a bash the parent rant, but i don't believe that children grow up to be bigots/bullies unless they have 'learnt' this behaviour from somewhere.

[sumum]

I would say something like an nt child has to try really hard to get something they want (pass exam say)
but that lots of sn kids have to put in that same amount if effort day in day out just to by.

How hard it must be for those sn kids having to work that hard every single moment. No wonder they get a bit stressed.

[TheArsenicCupCake]

That's why we are targeting the parents as well as the bullies!

And yes it's a he'll of a task.. !!

But one family or dc with a changed attitude will be soooo worth it!

[Goblinchild]

Being different is just that.
Not freaky, weird or a nutter, just different. So let them be, don't turn into a feral pack and go hunting someone who is doing you no harm.

[auntevil]

You know the threads that amberlight has been doing on how it feels to do what most people take for granted. They might give an insight as to how to describe how just the simplest task can seem like a mountain.
Could you do some kind of 'experiment' where you 'disable' a bully from the conversation. Send them out of the room and give the others a code to use for what they really mean. When that person comes back, they can hear the same words as everyone else, but not understand the same meaning/activity/rule. It could seem funny - but it might teach them that disabilities don't have to be visual - it can be in understanding what NTs find easy.

[TheArsenicCupCake]

Sumum I have a special english/ jibberish with all the wrong body language instuctions to complete a simple task (unwrapping and eating some chocolate... But with big thick ski gloves on).. But the intsructions are going to be given with two or three radios on different channels and set at loud... There will be a time limit..

They will also have written instructions ... But as I see writing as a dyslexic ( kind of).

If I can get hold of a wheelchair from the red cross for the day to use .. I'm going to!

[TheArsenicCupCake]

Thanks .. Keep them coming.. This is really important IMHO

[KatyMac]

Find something 'different' about each child/parent & call them on it

So "Oh look I've just noticed you have 2 brown eyes, imagine having 2 brown eyes, oh goodness me can I have 2 brown eyes too?" the additional need is a much a part of the child as their eyes are, OK it's a bit that makes them stand out - but we all have bits that make us stand out actually that might be better for a parent to be singled out and it's OK to say all positive things about what you are 'picking on' - that makes the bullying harder to see by others

[auntevil]

Just thinking of how sometimes schools etc ostracise a SN child form the rest of the class to do a different activity. My DS was called stupid by some of his 'friends' at school because he had to go 'off' to do OT. So perhaps how everyone is seated at this talk makes a difference. Will everyone be 'equal' in their access to you and your information?

[StarkAndWitchesWillFindYou]

I think you can explain bullying as an amplified effect.

People with disabilities have less opportunities to socialise and practice these often as they don't have access to the learning opportunities. This can make them a bit extra sensitive.

So, if someone makes a comment, a little bit insensitive at a level 1. i.e. 'lol, look at your jeans', it will have an impact to the level of 10 i.e. what is wrong with them? I booked a whole weekend to shop for them, had to wait for 30mins for a changing room big enough to fit me and my equipment, couldn't bend around properly to see them from the back, a bit unsure but it was such a pain getting this far so bought them anyway and hoped they'd work, washed them because I have sensitivites to all but the smell of my own washing powder, they shrunk a bit so it took me ages to get them on to come out and I'm absolutely gutted that I even did as I've got it all wrong again.

The small comment wasn't discriminatory but it was unnecessary and not very nice or excepting, and a lot harder for people with disabilities to shrug off, particularly if (as unfortunately is true for a lot) their self esteem is already a little battered just from daily living.

[KatyMac]

On that theme could you 'plant' a parent (maybe borrow a teacher?) that you can be rude to.......as an example? You know lots of sighing and 'again....?'

[StarkAndWitchesWillFindYou]

accepting

[TheArsenicCupCake]

Guys this is fantasic!

I need to go make dinner.. But I will be back.. I have two weeks to get this together!

shame I can't take you lot in with me.. Can you imagine what we could achieve together!

I will run past you all my final thing before I go do it :) .. and make sure I get this right!

[signandsay]

One thing I have done is signed to people, waited for them to respond, drummed my fingers, got impatient, then asked them how it felt, asked them to think about how it might feel if everyone else in the group understood and they did not, how about if veryone else showed they thought you were stupid for not getting it?

Just a thought...

either that or use really tiny type, too small to read but prime someone with what it says, so you can give it to them who will then 'read' it, how does that feel?

[KatyMac]

An activity I did at OU was:

Send someone (X) out of the room

Tell everyone else to make an equilateral triangle with 2 other random people

the person (X) returns & you shout go

Everyone moves around trying to make triangles with other people while X tries to work out what the system is

It is bewildering standing there watching and not understanding what everyone else is doing

[5andahead]

Wow, what an amazing opportunity or you.

Can't think of anything at the moment, but will have a think about it and come back.

[tallwivglasses]

Arsenic, I'm so glad you're doing this! It's vital that attitudes change from the ground up. Timely too, after that aweful hatecrime documentary last week and the 3 boys who tortured the boy with ASD and went free.

My DS has 'severe' ASD. My DD and her DP have changed a lot of their friends' attitudes by pointing out why certain words and attitudes are so offensive/harmful.

Her DP had a young relative with CP who sadly died, so he finds ignorant, spiteful, bigots very hurtful.

So maybe talk about the news...also I was wondering about re-telling some of the disablist jokes that have recently been discussed here and elsewhere...risky, I know, but I think if you can get people to engage with their own disablist views in a non-threatening way you're half-way there?

I Dunno, top-of-my-head thoughts...I'll enjoy having another think and following this thread.

I wonder if it's worth posting on BBC Ouch? Some of their columnists are great.

[StarkAndWitchesWillFindYou]

You could also hand out a picture of 3 babies/toddlers. Two very healthy and one with tubes.

Ask everyone to pick a baby/toddler. Don't ask anyone what they have picked, but you can have the discussion that very few will have picked the baby with obvious difficulties and talk about why that might be. What kind of life it suggests is in store for the parents and the child. What kinds of strains? What shattered dreams etc?

I think it could make a good introduction and hopefully by the end you can introduce the 3 babies/toddlers as older teens as best friends, having accepted and included the one with the difficulties, perhaps a passage about how they look out for him and can pre-empt some difficulty he might have and smooth the path because they love his sense of humour or something - and so end on a positive and show what is possible.

[Lougle]

That SN isn't 'one thing', and that children with SN have different likes, dislikes, etc. So don't expect them to all be the same.

[tallwivglasses]

Lougle's right - they're young people just like them - with a lot of similar hopes, dreams, plans, etc...

Same with the parents.

[WeakAndMilky]

Put one child in a borrowed wheelchair and tell all the other to stand around and call him names. Then get that child to tell the others what it feels like.

Ask one of the parents to push their child around the room in same wheelchair while the other children and parents make comments and stare. Ask the parent to explain how it felt.

[fightingthezombies]

Let them know that sometimes you can't 'see' the disability/SN and so it's not obvious. Teasing someone for being clumsy and slow for example can really upset that person if they have a disbility. Just because you think they look 'normal' be aware that they may have difficulties you don't know about.

[TheArsenicCupCake]

Wow!
I've just finished the great tuck in ritual with ds2.. And :) you have all exploded :)

there wouldn't be enough time ever to cover the whole issue of bullying..SN and awareness etc.. And most of my time is designated to talk about it.
But I have asked to do an activity on top.. Because I think it may be a 'think' point.

And if we can get these children ( and parents)to think .. That might be a good start!

I know what I want to tell this audience.. " Who made you god so you could decide on who is different enough to justify bullying everyday?.. Because as far as I can see.. Your just as different as I am and as the person sitting next to you!)

( don't panic...i'll keep that bit in my head .. As I do actually want to make a difference here lol).