STILL CRYING AFTER A MONTH OF CONTROLLED CRYING! HELP!

[Mixedbiscuits]

SORRY TO SHOUT BUT I AM FEELING A BIT STRESSED!

We've been doing CC with our 21 month old DD now for over 30 nights. It was awful for the first week, she cried for a hour each night but then it reduced for a while. I think we had about 4 nights of no crying at all but then she went back to perhaps crying for anything up to 20 mins. The all of a sudden (nothings changed) shes gone back to crying for a hour again! I can't bear it! But we can't go back now... I dont know what to do... I go back in every 10 minutes, lie her down, kiss her, say good night. I can't see what the problem is. She's fed, dry, clean, cool/warm enough... I can't believe its not working for us... My mum keeps telling me to stick with it but its really stressful and i dread evenings. Even more so than when i used to have to sit at her cotside for a hour plus, whilst she jumped up and down, tossed and turned and generally laughed at me, until she finally dropped to sleep.
Even now shes bellowing from her cot, as she has for 40 minutes, HELP SOMEONE PLEASE!!!

[CristinaTheAstonishing]

Hi MB - i imagine it's awful to hear your baby crying for so long, knowing you could do something to help her. I'd choose the jumping up and down until she drops to sleep and it sounds like you would too. I think you've given CC a long enough try - move on.

[morningpaper]

I agree with Cristina

Get some good books out of the library and have some quiet evenings sitting by the cot reading

[TrinityRhino]

I would say give it up but then I have never and will never do it do feel free to ignore me

[Mixedbiscuits]

thanks for the responses... i keep getting to the point where i want to give up but then she falls to sleep and i think... she can do it! (Shes asleep now) Shes such an intelligent little thing, i dont understand why she hasn't got into the habit by now.

[Dinosaur]

I seem to remember (although I haven't got the Richard Ferber book to hand) that he does say that if it hasn't worked long before one month, then to drop it and try something else.

Have you got the book? It would be worth having a look.

I am not anti-cc by the way, I did it with DS1 and did a modified version of it (mixed with pat-and-shush) for DS2 and DS3.

[moondog]

Keep with it.
It is called an extinction burst whereby behaviour you are attempting to remove suddenly rears its head for one last desperate burst.

You must not give in or you will end up with enormous problems,providing of course that you know she is warm,well,fed and so on.

(I am training to be a behaviour analyst and this is the sort of behaviour we examine in depth so v interesting to me.)

[CanStarveWillStarve]

You're not supposed to go in every 10 minutes with cc. If you go in that often she will think it is worth continuing to cry, as she knows that she only has to do so for a few minutes before she gets another visit. You're also not supposed to lie her down or say anything at all.

Did you not read a book on it before starting?

[Dinosaur]

That's really interesting, Moondog. And makes me feel beter about what a remorseless old bag I've been about the DSs and sleeping...

[anothernametoday]

Personally I would seek some advice from someone. Maybe start with doctor or health visitor? Even if its to hear them tell you you are doing right thing. A month is a long time though. This is just my personal view. Good luck

[Tatties]

I agree with Cristina, MP and Trinity. Even though you know she is fed, watered and warm, that might not be enough for her.

[moondog]

Dinosaur,learning about Applied Behaviour Analysis is changing my life (and that of other people's I hope,once I am qualified.)

I can't be doing with broken nights myself after the age of about 1 and was very tough.

[madmarchhare]

Agree with moondog.

I have comes across several versions of CC and the one I favour, and indeed worked with DS is to go in after a couple of minutes, maybe say 'night night, time to sleep'

then after 5 mins, 'time to sleep'

7-10, no speaking,

15, and so on with no conversation.

The idea being that even though you are going in, they arent getting anything from it so they might as well go to sleep.

[Mixedbiscuits]

I didn't read a book, just read around online. I used to go in every 15 mins but it seems pointless leaving it so long when i know shes standing up (so i cut it short to 10). I read that you lie them down, cover them and do your own little 'goodnight' and kiss routine and leave...

[moondog]

The only really important thing is continuity.
You decide on a paln of action and stick to it.

[CanStarveWillStarve]

But every visit should be at increasing intervals - it doesn't matter a jot that she's standing up - she knows how to lie herself down again doesn't she? It's no good saying that a technique isn't working if you're adapting that technique to what you think it should be, rather than what has been proven time and time again to work.

[Mixedbiscuits]

oh well yes, i have been constantly doing the 10 minute thing.

DD stays with Granny once a week, granny KNOWs what she has to do if DD cries but she doesn't cry there for some reason, but do u think her staying away for one night a week could effect the CC process?

[Dinosaur]

I really recommend you get hold of the Ferber book and read it. I think it's called "Solve your child's sleep problems".

[Mixedbiscuits]

ok, i shall try and get hold of it. Thank u.

[Dinosaur]

And in the meantime, I reckon Moondog's advice is sound, stick with it.

[CanStarveWillStarve]

Yes it is a good book - that's the one that I used.

I don't see why staying at granny's should cause a problem with the technique, but interesting that she doesn't cry there - maybe she is smart enough to realise that she won't get your attention there - canny little madam .

[SmileysPeople]

I have used CC with both of mine but they have responded very differently.

With Ds1 it worked quite quickly and he has pretty much remained a 'good' sleeper since.

With DS2 though, he challenged the process more and pushed me to the point where I thought it wouldn't work. It did, but it took longer, and even now (he's 3yrs)he can quickly loose the pattern and we have to go through the process again.
He is a child who challenges all boundaries before accepting them, throughout the day and night.

I personally felt that estblishing a positive sleep pattern early was actually good for them. Since quite young they have slept 12hrs and have a lovely bedtime routine, with bath, stories and bed, no questions.

It was worth the initial struggle, but SO hard I know.

[Mixedbiscuits]

forgive me for not having read a book about it... but may i please ask... how do u go about the standing up? if i go in after 15 mins and shes stood up, what do i do? Just say goodnight and leave again?

[CanStarveWillStarve]

I wouldn't even say goodnight tbh - you need to try and avoid all interaction. Is she in a sleeping bag whereby you don't need to worry about covers? My dd was so I would just go in, see that she was ok and just having a tantrum, occasionally do a quiet 'shhhhhh' and then leave again (well ok I admit I did sometimes lie her back down!).

And on the interval thing - start at 15 mins, then go to 20 for next visit, then 25 and so on.

[SmileysPeople]

I can't remeber what the books said, but I ignored the standing up.

Ds2 would stand up and shake his cot, there was no way that I could gently lie him back down. I would just go in, rearrange the covers or something and say 'no, it's sleepies now.'

As he eventually quietened down he would lie down and I'd tuck him in.

[Mixedbiscuits]

no shes never took to a sleeping bag, i did try not lieing her back down for a few nights, and she ended up asleep the wrong way round on top of her covers and it was a pain to move her...

ok, im going to try no interaction and extending the time each time. Im also going to get a book (and stop moaning!)