The never ending bedtime!

[GothicRainbow]

My 2.5 year old DS is taking over an hour to fall asleep most nights. This wouldn't be a problem but he likes for either me or DH to sit in with him until he's asleep.

His current routine is:

7am - wake
12pm - up for nap, he can settle himself on his own for this.
I let him have 45mins from whenever he falls asleep. Cut off is 1.30pm never let him sleep later.

He's happy in the afternoons has dinner at 4.30pm.

6pm - tv off, living room curtains closed, quiet play with books and soft toys
6.30pm - bath time
6.45pm - PJ's, milk, teeth.
7.15pm - in bed to snooze

We stopped books in bed as they were too exciting but just recently the actual going to sleep part is getting later and later.

It does seem to be worse when my DH does bedtime, tonight for example DS went to sleep at 8.40pm and my DH has just made it downstairs.

Does anyone have any ideas??

We've tried getting him to fall asleep on his own but he usually cries so hard he throws up (refluxer) - sigh!

[winchester1]

I just tell my 2.1 yr old not to cry as his sister is sleeping so he just chats to himself instead. The first few times I had to.interrupt him starting to cry bit it worked. Could you use a pet or doll maybe?

[Pinkpowderpuff]

I've heard of parents saying to their child 'I'm just going to the loo/get a drink/feed the cat and I will be right back' then pop out of the room for a few minutes then come back, then extend the time after each visit. The point is to keep the child calm as they trust you will come back then fall asleep on their own on one of the extended visits. Eventually they get used to falling asleep without you there which makes it easier to transition to a kiss goodnight then out of the room. Haven't tried it as both my boys have been good at being put to bed and left to chat themselves to sleep from about 18mo, my issue is night waking..... But that is a whole new thread of it's own.... Maybe someone with more experience will offer their advice soon!

[GothicRainbow]

Thanks both, he'll have a baby brother or sister in 6 months so that might well work!!

I suppose starting the popping out is probably hard and then maybe it gets easier with time?? When we've left the room before he cries immediately.

Do you think we should come back as soon as he cries or leave it a few mins?

[Pinkpowderpuff]

I would just shout to him from the next room that it's OK, Mummy will be back in a minute. It's just to give him chance to realise you don't HAVE to be in there with him. Maybe get a new cuddly toy that be can choose? Then you can about that it's OK, cuddle new toy and I will be back in a minute.

[Pinkpowderpuff]

Shout, not about!

[confusedandemployed]

As soon as DD started taking longer than 5-10 mins regularly to fall asleep, I dropped her daytime nap. She was about 2.3yo.

It worked like a charm and she adjusted seamlessly to no naps. OK she's a bit grouchy by 6pm but is so, so ready for bath and bed by 6.30 that it's totally worth it.

[futureme]

My first was easy to get to sleep and the 'I'm just going to..." Worked a dream.

My second we still sit with at 3 yrs old and she usually ends up in our bed so reading for tips. Children do vary though...

[slightlyconfused85]

Agree with pp. once Dd started faffing regularly I cut her nap and she was in bed between 6 and 6.30. She was 2.2

[GothicRainbow]

We have cut his nap to 45mins from an hour and a half but I'm wondering if we should cut it down again to about half hour. He does still really need that snooze in the day or by 3pm he's unbearable!!

I've just put him upstairs for his nap and he's had a quick kiss, shut the door and he's now fast asleep in under 10 mins.

We've got a really busy week this week with lots of afternoon appts so I might not change anything this week but might do half an hour naps for next week and see what that does.

It's so hard to know what's right as lots of people say sleep = sleep!

[confusedandemployed]

Yes but at that age they start to naturally need less sleep. DD would still go down at lunchtime if I let her, but we pay for it at night because she simply doesn't need a nap any more.
If he's really that bad by three then by all means just cut down - but I found that once DD got over her grouchiness at about the time she used to wake up for her nap, she was fine til bedtime then.

[Pinkpowderpuff]

This is an interesting read concerning napping after age 2 -
www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/19/2-year-olds-naps-study_n_6708978.html

[GothicRainbow]

I do kind of wish DS didn't need his nap anymore would certainly make things simpler.

Tonight was abit better with 45mins but that's only one night out of many that have been longer!

Thanks for the article Pink was interesting to read, although no real definitive answer either way.

[QueenStarlight]

I don't think 2 year olds need anywhere near that amount of sleep in a 24 hour period.

[GothicRainbow]

How much sleep do you think he should be getting? He's having approx 11 hours at night and 45 mins in the day.

[QueenStarlight]

It all seems very controlling. Why not put him to sleep when he starts to fall asleep downstairs.

That routine sounds exhausting for your all.

Just do what you do. Teeth is probably the only thing that you should keep from your routine.

my 2 year olds always had dinner with the rest of the family at 8ish. At 4:30 they'd only just had lunch an hour or so before.

We never had problem with sleep, but then we figured they already knew how to sleep and didn't need our engineering. Presumably they took what they needed in the womb?

[QueenStarlight]

They should be getting as much sleep as they need and no more. It will depend on the child and probably vary day to day. If you separate the child's natural biology triggers by enforcing cultural and artificial systems upon surely that is going to make things miserable for all?

[GothicRainbow]

Tbh i think we would end up with a mess of a toddler who wouldn't know whether he was coming or going.

I think in this case what's worked for you wouldn't work for us.

[QueenStarlight]

Well what we do is what most of the world does, including most of Europe. The UK has one of the highest rates of child unhappiness.

Surely sleeping, like eating, needs to be based on need and appetite. It sounds like the current way of doing this isn't exactly giving you a happy toddler or a happy you either?

I'm not being judgemental. I know that with my first I had an idea of what a 'good parent' ought to be and struggled to achieve it. When I gave up and realised that my kid really didn't need the controlling the books told me they did, everything got brighter.

[confusedandemployed]

Hmmm sorry Queen, your way wouldn't work for me or my DD either. And judging by the number of posts from parents desperate for their toddlers to sleep better, it's not an option for many others.

Learning to sleep is a life skill which needs to be taught IMO, and one which lots of people seem to trivialise. I also think that the amount of sleep needed varies from child to child - but most of them need about 12 hours in a 24hr period, however that is achieved. E.g. DD will do at least 12 hours 7-7, and often up to 7-8.

Of course the other thing which I think is important is me and DH and our relationship. When DD goes to bed, that is our time and I am not prepared to compromise on that. It may not be very 'modern' but there you go. Just because I've had a child doesn't mean I've stopped being me. Having DD effectively decide when she goes to bed sounds like hell to me.

[QueenStarlight]

'Just because I've had a child doesn't mean I've stopped being me.'

It does actually. The foetal cells leave the baby when you are carrying them and penetrate all of the organs in your body, influencing your trajectory.

But if you mean that you are unprepared to adapt fully to parenthood, that is up to you. Life happens whatever.

But children being taught to sleep? Are you kidding me? What did they do in the womb or did you do some training then too? Did you teach them to breathe? Do Elephants teacher their young to sleep? Do any other mammals?

I think you are suggesting that you need to train your child so that they fit in with your lifestyle with minimal adaptions. To some extent that is necessary for our children to participate in the culture that they are born into and their expectations.

What I find a bit odd however, is the lack of evaluation of all of these practices in regards to what the child actually needs. For example, they need to be rested for nursery attendance at, say 9am (culturally imposed but hard to avoid), but they don't need to spend 2 hours of bed prep, with tears and frustration throughout the family unit, with the hope that eventually they'll give in.

[QueenStarlight]

I also find it difficult to see that a couple and their relationship exists much outside of the child that they had together through that relationship. For sure it is important to have 1:1 time, with all members of the family, but a child isn't an add on, he/she is a part of the relationship.

[confusedandemployed]

Oh purlease.

Different strokes for different folks love. I'm still me. More fool you if you're not.

[GothicRainbow]

Queen - I came on here looking for some advice on how to help my DS with his bedtime. You have provided your advice and thank you for contributing but what you have suggested will not work for me and my family.

I have a very bright and happy toddler he just struggles with unwinding and going to sleep. I do think falling asleep is a skill that needs to be learnt and the correct environment needs to be provided to do this. Dark, quiet, safe & comfortable.

I don't think leaving a toddler in the living areas of the house while they are bright, noisy with me cooking an evening meal until they are falling asleep through sheer exhaustion is an appropriate situation.

[slightlyconfused85]

Queen- what?! Just because it works for you doesn't make it the right way for everyone. There is a lot of research that an early bedtime is beneficial for young children. It is also necessary when they are older and start nursery and school. There are some adults, me for example, that need my evenings to complete work - children falling asleep on the sofa at 9pm would be a nightmare for us. You are, in fact, being very judgemental and additionally not helping the op.

[poocatcherchampion]

I think you should drop the nap too.