What worked for us. Hope this helps.(508 Posts)
This post is going to be massive - no apologies however.
So I've posted at least 5 queries about DD's sleep and read about 1 billion threads, because DD only napped for 30mins in the day, would only BF to sleep (since a newborn I wanted to get out of the habit, but nothing else did it). She spent the first 5 months in her cot, only for us to end up co-sleeping so we could get a bit of rest. She would BF every 2 hours at least in the night, and by the end she'd wake every half hour before we went to bed. I knew I couldn't do CC/CIO, I'm not strong enough even if I thought that was the right thing to do, but I thought that I would be forced to if things carried on the way they were.
We read No Cry Sleep Solution, which is complicated and didn't work for us.
So a friend had tried a technique, that she recommended and I thought that it was too much of a leap for DD, but i kept the email, and one evening I sort of snapped and decided that IT WAS TIME. DD was 8 1/2months. I don't know from what age this technique is recommended, but I don't think I'd have wanted to do this earlier, as you still have to cope with the baby crying. I knew DD was ready because now she quite clearly has two cries - one properly sad and scared, the other a bit shouty and put on, so when doing this technique you know what's going on (but I'd like to add that I still comforted DD when she was shouty - she's still trying to say something, but I deÞ nitely wouldn't pick her up and panic!)
I'll paste her email to me, hoping she won't mind. We didn't do it in the ten days, as it was just a bit too much, but i wonder if the way we did it made things a bit complicated. So I recommend doing it as laid out.
But now DD takes 20mins to fall asleep by herself (with one of us in her room) in her cot, in her room. and I do not feed at all between 7pm and 7am. Dh goes in in the night and he gives her water in case she's thirsty but she's quite happy without. It takes him no more than about 3mins to resettle her (unless ill).
After starting this at the beginning of January she still wakes up once or twice a night but it doesn't affect me as I wear earplugs and DH goes in! ha ha ha! (I still hear her and wake up, but I don't wake up fully and find it difFicult to go back to sleep) Do I need to tell you how I feel like a different woman?
So here's the email -
^"Ok, this is a plan thing that we first tried with dc1 when we got to the point where we knew something had to change. There seems to come a point where not only do you get tired of 'helping' your baby get to sleep, but whatever you do seems to work less and less - as if they know something has to change too! It takes a bit of work for about ten days or so but mostly the first couple of days you really put your back into it and then it gets easier. I remember vaguely doing it with dc1 and have just rediscovered it with Dc2 she is a bit of a firecracker so I was expecting trouble but babies love to learn something new, especially around this age and she only woke once last night despite having a cold, which is a HUGE improvement. Dc1 found this very easy and never shed a tear. Dc2 screamed 'TRAITOR!!' at me many times during the first night (she does that a lot), so I'm not saying that there won't be some crying because you will be doing something different to before but you don't have to leave her side and can reassure her as much as you need to, physically and verbally.
The idea is that you are no longer going to help her go to sleep - in whatever way - if you rock her, feed her, jiggle her, whatever it is. You can be there and reassure her but it is no longer your job to MAKE her go to sleep. It is your job to support her whilst she does it herself.
First of all, you know that thing that everyone says about having a bedtime routine (which I imagine you already have) is utterly true. By the time they are a toddler, the sound of a running bath is enough to set the bedtime clock going. When you choose to do this thing, it is really important to stick to your bedtime routine without fail for the ten days and it needs to be between 20 and 45 minutes long. Also, this plan also applies to naps, so you need to be able to be at home for naptimes - just until Dd has the thing established - ten days usually does it. Lastly, you are aiming for Dd to be in bed by 7ish in the evening and not much later. If you're like me you're knackered by about half four, so starting bedtime at a quarter past six is no trouble. You've probably done all that so on to the plan. I'll do bedtimes first and then naps.
Day 1, 2 and 3 - Place a chair right next to the cot. Make it a comfortable chair, you may get to know it fairly well. Have a duvet, cushions, iphone, book to hand. Do your bedtime routine and put Dd in the cot awake. She may well not know what to do next and try all sorts of things. If she stands up you can gently pop her back down again but only a few times - if she insists on standing for a bit then let her - it may just be one of those things she incorporates into her own burgeoning routine, and I daresay she is capable of getting back down again by now. You can pat the bed to let her know you want her to lie down. Sooner or later she is likely to sit down for a bit and eventually plop on to her front. She has to find her own way through this so she may try eating her blanket or playing with a toy before she lies down - that's up to her. If she cries, you can pat her and speak to her. As long as you remember that your patting and comforting is not there to get her to sleep, just to help her calm down in this new and confusing situation so as soon as she starts to settle, lighten your touch with a view to taking your hand off her, and stop speaking. She may go back and forth a bit needing you to touch and speak to her a few more times, but each time lessen your touch when she has settled. Stay there until she has fallen fast asleep and creep out. This bit can take ten minutes for some babies, but most fall asleep after 45 minutes. Two hours is the longest on record! I expected Dc2 to be a two hour effort but no - 45 minutes almost exactly. As long as you know that it is going to take that long, you can get through it. When she wakes up in the night, you do exactly the same thing, each and every time. The first few times she wakes, she will probably yell for you, but as she gets the idea that she can drift back to sleep herself, she may just squeak and go back (sounds unlikely? I thought that too.) The idea is that as time goes on you can wait a tiny bit longer before you go in, to give her the opportunity to practise her new skill.
Days 4, 5 and 6 - move the chair a few feet away from the cot. Keep everything else the same except you are further away. Once you have had your bedtime cuddle and put her in the cot sit down. You can still go to her if she really needs you, and you can still speak to her but she may not need as much help by now. Again, wait until she is asleep before you leave. Repeat as often as necessary when she wakes although, again, leave it a few minutes before you go in.
Days 7, 8 and 9 - move the chair to the door or the other side of the room. Make sure she can still see you, but once you have settled her in her cot and gone to the chair try not to go to her unless she has got herself into a daft position and can't get out. By now she will start developing her own strategy to get to sleep, and you will be able to tell what stage she is at, because you've been watching it all the way through.
Day 10 - you have several choices. If you think things are going really well and baby can cope with you not being there you can leave the room and see how she gets on. You can hover by the door out of sight and watch what happens, and reassure her with your voice. If you feel apprehensive about it and think she needs longer you can try the Bustle - instead of sitting down, tinker about in her room, cleaning up or folding washing or whatever. Or you can continue in the chair. The idea of the plan is ultimately for you to be able to plonk and go, but I quite like spending that extra time with DC so I use a mixture of the bustle and the chair. For night wakings you now really have to give her the chance to go back on her own. Wait ten minutes ( I know - such a long time!) before you go in. I got up last night to Þ nd by the time I got to DC's door, she'd already curled up again! That's the main brunt of it. Just bear in mind that the first couple of nights are the worst - she might wake more frequently, but stick at it and you'll see an improvement. The other thing is that when they start sleeping longer in the night they get up properly a bit too early in the morning - but this usually improves over a few weeks as they get the hang of sleeping. I've kind of assumed that you are going to move her into her own room - there's no reason you can't start this as soon as you move her in. If DC get ill and it disrupts her sleep, go back to whichever stage in the plan you think works best. You can sleep in her room if you want to keep an eye on her, but don't bring her in with you.
Naps - Do the same for naps as you do at night times only you can't sit there for as long as it takes - give it an hour and if she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up and feed her or do something different and try again a bit later. If she resists napping like this twice in a day you can resort to taking her out in the buggy or something. just so she gets a bit of sleep in the day. You are aiming at two solid naps a day by the way. If you've started this thing at bedtime the night before, the nap thing is usually not a problem. I can't think of anything else right now! By the way this is based on a Canadian lady's idea. I chose to use it because it doesn't mean leaving a baby to cry. They learn to fall asleep without you intervening, although you might argue that your presence is a sort of intervention, but before long you will find yourself saying goodnight and shutting the door, because she'd not taking any notice of you anymore!" ^
So for us the First night it took 3 hours 10mins, which is why for nightwakings later on that night I just fed her instead of sitting with her. Within the first few nights she woke LOADS less and then DH would go to her and he would just ask her to put her head down and she would and go straight back to sleep. Needless to say that sort of thing just wouldn't happen before. So if I remember rightly it was only after 4 or 5 nights that I stopped feeding her. The other thing we've found a bit hard is waiting a few mins before going in to her when she wakes. We just give it one or two minutes more than we'd usually do instead of waiting 10.
DH would like to add that he thinks the important thing is to teach DC to put their head down and close their eyes - he says' put your head down, put your head down, now close your eyes' and repeats it a bit like a mantra gently until DD does, and then stops as soon as she does what he says. He says for our 9month old that after a week she knows what it means and does what he suggests! He says that this is useful in the night and that's all he needs to do to get her to go back to sleep.
For the first night I recommend a large glass of wine that you take in with you. For the second night, have the bottle waiting for you on the table in the lounge. Also on the first night we both did it together for a bit of moral support and took it in turns but I'm assuming that none of you is as much as a wimp as I am.
I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my friend's writing is very clear, and mine is all over the shop. I'm just a bit enthusiastic about how its gone. I hope this is of use to someone.
SoYo thank you! We were/are having a dreadful time with my DD (10 months old) sleeping, she seems to constantly wake at night, some nights for hours screaming and not being able to go down. We came to the conclusion this weekend that something needed to be done and I had caught sight of this thread after you wrote a few weeks ago. (Mumsnet has become my regular night time reading).
We started on Sunday and had a great first night, one waking took an hour to get back to sleep and a feed (this is normal for her), second time half an hour, then awake for a feed at 5 and she slept till 7!!! Night number 2 was an hour and then awake at 4.45 but still amazing and that night we had no night feed. Unfortunately last night she has picked up a cold and was really unhappy so we were up every half hour and had to resort to lots of cuddles as she was miserable but we are hoping to get back on track tonight.
Hopefully this will save our sanity! If anyone is around I will keep you posted, if not thanks for the reminder SoYo.
I know this is an old thread but I thought it one worth bringing out of retirement. We've been having a nightmare with out 7mo and is seems, judging by the sleep thread, that lots of others have too!
We started this 2 nights ago and it's a massive improvement already. Fingers crossed it continues and can help others too.
So thankful i found this post, well i was referred to it. No need to trawl through endless methods, this sounds perfect, just what i can cope with. Now i just hope it works!
Well it was 30 mins and no crying to get to sleep tonight.
In the night he woke 5 times to bf, 10, 12, 2.30, 3.30, 5 and bak to sleep until 7.30. The first two times I woke him
Before putting him down awake. But the last times I just needed him
To go back to bed.
Will keep updating this to help me stay on track. This week I'll concentrate on getting to sleep, next week on reducing night feeds.
That went incredibly well... 45 minutes of faffing, mucking about, being charming, grizzling, whimpering and looking sad before he curled up sweetly and went to sleep. It's a massive achievement.
I could not leave him to cry, and just won't. But I was able to comfort him without taking him out of his cot.
That's just the start though, we'll see what happens when he wakes for milk!
I am startIng tonight. Having a huge dinner, and charging my phone. Earplugs at the ready, comfy chair etc. I NEED this to work. Will report back, probably later today. Yikes!
Hi, I've been in and out of the thread, but if it's any consolation, my ds is 13 mo, and will only bf early morning. He plays sometimes and points at boobs, but laughs when I produce the goods! The only time he feeds properly is when he wakens- anything from 4-6 am, and nothing else for rest of the day, doesn't even take boob at night!!. I'm sticking with this, as I will be sad to quit completely, so maybe this is worth a try??
So glad i gave this another go! put it off for ages and was really dreading it but its not actually been too awful.
started it on friday night... was quite tough but each time i've tried this the first night has always been the worst and from then it gets easier. the second/third night onwards has hardly had any crying. i felt like i had no choice but to night wean as he wanted it every couple of hours all night, sometimes every hour. so the first couple of nights i only fed him twice for a very short period. then on the third night i didnt feed him, just offered water. and by monday and tuesday night he has started only waking once! so hes gone from waking sometimes 5-6 times a night and feeding back to sleep each time to only waking once. all i had to do last night was go in and say 'lie down now, night night' and lay him back down and he went straight back to sleep.
trying not to get my hopes up! oh please please please may it continue!
on the downside i am stopping breastfeeding at the moment because i just couldnt get him to feed during the day. i keep telling myself 11 months is still an achievement but i just thought i'd go a bit longer than this.
I stumbled across this thread about a week ago when I decided to start looking on the sleep board for any tips I could find on how to get my 9m old dd to sleep better. I had reached the end of my tether as others mentioned earlier in the thread and did not want to try CC/CIO. All my evenings were spent running up and downstairs offering boob here and there, and in past few weeks dd has not been going back to sleep on the boob. I am also no longer offering boob in daytime (dd only wanted it if very tired and needing a nap, otherwise too busy!), and i think as a result of using this sleep training method we might be able to wean off boob completely without any trauma to either of us.
So far we're on night 4 with mixed results. 10 mins to get to sleep tonight but last night was pretty awful as dd was just so wide awake from 11.50pm that I ended up with dd in bed with me .
I don't sit in a chair watching dd cry as others have worried about. If dd is crying I am patting, stroking, shhing. So far dd hasn't become hysterical and started screaming, so not had to deal with that, but think if that happened I'd wimp out probably!
Great having evening to myself today. Forgotten how great it is to have me time . Real test tomorrow night as on my own for bedtime routine and also have 3.5 year old dd!
Oh my goodness ct, we always try too, but holidays, teeth and illnesses are getting us bogged down!
If your boy will take a bottle could you try only bottle at night, and gradually watering it down until its water? You could give the big breast feed before bed, and then bottles? He may then eat more food in the day.
I suppose, like me, as you will be returning to work, you would like to give a morning and evening breastfeed and for him to eat food during the day and sleep at night! I will share any progress we have, but have to take a break at the moment as I am trying to complete a dissertation and I feel like I may collapse in a heap already!
Good luck, please let me know if you get anywhere!
Getagoldtoof - my ds is exactly the same...he barely bf at all during the day, but makes up for it at night time when i feed him back to sleep.
he's not really a problem to get back to sleep most of the time when i feed him, its just that he wakes up so much and i'm back at work soon. plus, under pressure from dh to stop bringing him in bed with me, which up until now has been my saviour in the early hours.
I'm actually in the very early stages of stopping bf and giving him formula instead (he already has one at bedtime). i think i would have carried on bf much longer, but because he rarely feeds during the day it would be bordering on impossible to not feed him at night, and i cant bear the thought of doing this while he is hungry as well as sad! at the moment its kind of a vicious circle-he doesnt feed during the day so wakes up at night to make up what he's missed! so i end up feeding him, and then the next day he doesnt feed, and round it goes! i think i'd rather know how much he's had. maybe i'll try offering him water during the night instead - but its so tempting when i know i could get him back to sleep and me back to bed in minutes if he just has a quick bf!
have done this before a couple of times, but not for a while... slipped back into 'bad habits', due to travel/illness/teething or whatever it happened to be that week!
dreading it already, hate hearing him cry
Startwig, thanks for the reassurance. And for teaching me how to spell wuss(!). I am going to persevere. I have to, there is no other option.
Ct148, I am wondering too whether to night wean, as I don't have trouble getting him back to sleep when he wakes up (just feed then back to bed), but I find the amount of times he wakes up a problem. He barely eats all day long, just bf at night!
I will report back when am ready to go again!
Starting this on friday. couple of questions though...
my ds is nearly 11 months, besides waking up loads, is also an early riser and my friend told me that she doesnt let her ds cry if he wakes up early, she just does whatever she can to get him back to sleep as quickly as possible because otherwise he gets into a habit.
what has everyone else done, do you do this even in the mornings?
i'd like to nightwean him too in the hope that he will wake up less. at the moment i'm feeding him back to sleep. should i just go cold turkey, or should i cut it down gradually?
I don't think you're a wuss. It took me several attempts to try this and eventually just mentally prepared myself and went for it. It was hard, there's no denying it, but now he takes about 15 mins to go to sleep while I pootle about in his room. It's such a relief to be able to have my evenings back and I'm definitely going to do it with next dc, but earlier than I did it with DS.
Hello all. I've been reading this thread for months. I finally thought I was ready tonight as we had such a horrendous night last night and I feel like crap and pretty hacked off. I put my young chap (10 months) to bed and he played around in his cot trying hard to get my attention. I thought it would be fine until he started screeching. It went on and on (felt like it, but was actually 10 mins or less, even), and I gave in and am now feeding him like I do every night, every 1-2 hours all night long. I feel so down, don't know how to get through the screaming. Am I a total woos (sp!)?
Hi civil, I'm new to this thread (have only got through the first couple of pages so far), but I'm trying a similar method to*nectarina*, the pick-up/put-down method from the baby whisperer.
My ds2 is 7.5 months, and until just over a week ago was always bf to sleep. What I've done at bedtime to make sure he goes into his cot awake is turn his bedtime routine round. Instead of nappy change, massage, story, feed to sleep, I feed him about 90 min before we start his bedtime routine, then again about 20 min before. He then has the rest of his routine (always gets quite excited by
trying to eat the story), and is awake when he goes into his cot. It's taken between about 20-40 min to get him to sleep at bedtime, and he's only been waking twice during the night. After two months of waking between 3 and 6 times, I'm counting that as a success. I'm still feeding him at night at the moment, as I didn't want to change too much at one time.
Naps are a different story. Have been trying since Thursday to put him down to nap in his cot. Have had three or four successes out of twelve attempts, taking between 25 and 65 min to fall asleep, staying asleep for between 30 and 90 min.I keep trying for an hour at a time. It's just so random. I had hoped that by now, it would be working more consistently. He slept this morning for 30 min, didn't sleep at all in his cot this afternoon, but has just started his afternoon feed and immediately fell asleep on me. I'll let him feed/sleep for 30 min, then wake him.
Can I ask a question please (know I am ressurecting a thread) - but how do I put my baby down to sleep if he falls asleep while I am feeding him?
Hi. I'm not sure if many people are still reading this thread but am thinking of starting this technique to help my 6mo settle to sleep by herself. She is pretty good and goes to sleep well as long as she has a dummy and either myself or DP by the cot with a hand by her face. This is all well and good but then wakes throughout the night for the dummy to be put back in. It can range from every 30mins to every 2 hours, either going straight back to sleep or taking 2 hours!! I would love to use this technique to get rid of the dummy as I assume it's the same theory as feeding to sleep.
I feel really guilty as she only has the dummy for sleep and car journeys and finds a lot of comfort in it but I need more sleep as I'm sure she does. Do you think it would work for getting rid of the dummy too?
How did you get on Moxxie ?
Ladies, I think I love you all. Have been reading this thread today while my son was asleep (on me). Got as far as page 8 so far, but had to chip in.
My son (nearly 7mo) has been getting harder to put down at night as he's becoming less interested in feeding to sleep (he only really does that for the last feed of the day), cue rocking, shushing blah blah. Tonight I thought I'd give it a whirl as he'd had great naps today. Fed him, put him in his cot and sat next to him. He wriggled around, moaning and groaning, turned over... and then fell asleep. It took 16 minutes and no crying. Huzzah!
He usually wakes up a few times during the evening, so we shall see...
Sorry to keep harping on...
DD slept til 5:45 today! It took 13 mins to get her down for the first nap this morning then all other naps were in the buggy as we were out. Tonight she was eyes closed but fitful at 6 minutes in, totally soundo by 13 minutes! And it's not v stressful anymore as she's just shouty, she's not properly crying.
I actually can't believe it - I thought I was destined to being stuck in a vicious comfort-sucking-pick-up circle forever! So wish I'd done this ages ago...
Stil only get 30 min naps though so that'll be our next "challenge"!
We're away for the weekend so I imagine that might screw things up a tad but we'll see.
Good luck to anyone thinking of trying this :-)
So first nap ended after 30 mins which wasn't great but at least she went down in the cot and on her own. We were out in the car around lunchtime so she snoozed in the car seat for 15-20 mins here and there - always waking when we stopped...
Tried a late nap at about 3pm seeing as she'd only catnapped before and she really tried bless her.. Took about 10 mins for her to get sleepy and she dozed off but was very fitful and didn't stay down.
Had a very overtired dinner but then it only took 20 mins at bedtime and not heard a peep since.
Would love some advice on how to tackle the early morning wakings if anyone's reading?! I don't mind getting up to feed her if i know she'll go back down again!
Ok so am feeling really good about this now!
DD slept from 7:10pm to 4:45am! She was starving so I went in and fed her, didn't even think not to really... She was obviously v sleepy at the boob but then wide awake when she went in the cot. She was chatty and smiley and I was dreading that she'd be up for the day, but I went to the loo and she didn't cry as I left so on my way back I just closed her door and left her to it. That was at 5:15am, I next heard her on the monitor at 6:45am!
She's been a little treasure this morning and is currently down for her first nap - and it took a tiny 17 minutes! She had her eyes closed from 10 minutes then it took her a little while to finally drift off...
I know it's still early days, but definitely feels like progress!
DD has just gone to bed - 38 minutes of protesting... Not many real tears but lots of shouting and squawking - I bet her little throat is sore :-(
Its early days I guess and whilst it's HORRIBLE sitting here whilst she cries it seems to be working.
I've also been reading about the 90 minute awake thing which does seem to apply to DD... If she only has a short nap I'll try to get her down again 90 mins later. If she sleeps well she can do 3 hrs awake... I try to make bedtime 3 hours from her last nap and tonight she was spot on.....
I suspect I'll just get the hang of this and she'll change again!!!
Ok so we started today with DD's first nap (I think all or nothing will work with her)... She cried for an hour solid, sounding like a baby dinosaur/gremlin at times but the longer it went on the longer I kept thinking "if you pick her up now, all her crying so far wasn't worth it"... She fell asleep doing those big heavy sobs/sighs/catching her breath.. It nearly broke my heart and I did have a little cry once she was soundo.. BUT - I'm feeling confident because she's been down for 1hr and 10mins so far which is unheard of (she is queen of the 30min nap)...
We'll be out later so she can sleep in the buggy but I'll try again at bedtime...
Feeling brave today! The long nap has inspired me!