Should he continue learning a musical instrument?

[BlogOnTheTyne]

Do children, later on in life, regret dropping learning a musical instrument?

DS, (one of twins) 12, is the most musical one of my DCs. At age 7, he was targeted by the school to learn viola, after the whole class were given violin lessons all year. He had been playing trumpet and piano but had dropped piano and was progressing well with trumpet. At the school's recommendation, he swopped to viola and got Distinction at Grade 1. He was also, at that time, a leading light in school musical productions, getting solo singing leads etc.

That's the relevant background. He now wants to drop viola - which would mean he doesn't learn an instrument at all. He'd got to grade 3 only. He doesn't sing anymore. His twin - who is less musical - has forged ahead in Trumpet (now grade 6) and belongs to several school brass ensembles. In the wider family, all the cousins uncles and aunts and myself sing and play at least one and often 2 or 3 instruments. So we're a musical family at the 'enjoyment' level - not professional.

I'm now torn between letting DS drop viola, as he keeps asking to, won't practice and hates having to go to the school strings ensemble once a week - and wondering if he'll regret it later on? Should he swop to another instrument or is that now too late, given he rarely gets time to practice even if he wanted to - because of homework commitments?

At age 5, he was composing music on piano and will sometimes still mess around on piano and keyboard for fun, picking out pop music. However, he's at a school where the level of musical ability is v high (some children got their diploma at age 10, others are now at grade 8 in their instrument) and he's never going to be that good or that committed and would already be way behind his peers who've bene playing an instrument - or two - since age 2 or 3.

I don't know if this is part of adolescence really and should support him to carry on - or a genuine dislike of the instrument or a hatred of giving up more of the little time he has, to practice or attend a music group at school. He's never felt physically comfortable with the viola. He has a good ear for music but certainly not the attitude of having fun whilst learning.

I'd love to hear what others think and other's experiences of whether they let their DCs drop their instrument or supported them to carry on - or change instruments or what? I'd personally feel upset if he stopped as he's so musical compared with me and DT2. However, I've already given up completely on trying to get him to practice as the battles were awful. He can get by with no practice, actually, but what a waste of my money, apart from anything else.

What do you think?

[Everincreasingirth]

It's a difficult question. Obviously he needs to practice if he wants to progress ( having same problems with my eldest ds and piano practice). He sounds like he does have a natural ability and as adults we can see what a shame that would be if he gave up. Maybe he feels a little bit 'put out' that his brother and other children at school are doing better than him, or at least as far as grades are going. Maybe talk to him and find out if there is another instrument he would like to learn if he really doesn't want to continue. He will have learnt a lot ( sight reading, rhythm etc) even if he does decide to give up. Or maybe suggest that he still continues but that you don't work towards any grades for a while and just concentrate on doing stuff he enjoys playing. You may find that if he does this for a while then his enthusiasm returns and he may end up leaving a few grades out and going straight to grade 6 or whatever in a year or so... And just a thought, is it the thought of the theory exam at grade 5 that worries him? Anyway good luck

[yegodsandlittlefishes]

I'd think of the options and talk to him about it. Does he want to do Music GCSE? From what you've said, I would ask him if he wants to take up the trumpet instead. Or ask him why he wants to give up viola - would offering private lessons out of school help? Is there something else he would rather be doing? I would inaist he takes up something else ( new sport or interest) if he hasnt got other things he does out of school.

[Labro]

If he does stop, he may rediscover just picking it up and having fun, hes got the basics there if he ever wants to go back to it and plenty of opportunity to play music if and when he wants to. Viola players tend to be in short supply!
Perhaps trial not having lessons and see how it goes, most teachers require notice that they are stopping so it wouldn't be immediately anyway. Pointless spending all that money If he doesn't practise as even playing for pleasure in lessons the teacher will get seriously fed up with no practise being done.

[DramaQueenofHighCs]

I think viola may be the wrong instrument for him. Apparently it's the reason why so many talented children give up.
Ask if there is another instrument he'd prefer to play instead.
Or try looking at this book:
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1409138127?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21
(should be at the local library if you don't want to buy it,)
It's a great book and is recommended by the head of my DS's music school.

[ZiaMaria]

It sound like it has become a chore in his eyes, rather than something to do for fun. I would therefore let him drop it (but if he has his own instruments, don't sell them as you may find he starts to like them again when he doesn't have to practice). Music can stop being fun.

I used to play two instruments. It got to the point that I detested then, because I didn't want to spend all my time practising them/being in bands and orchestra/not being able to do other things. But I was told I had to. Now I don't play them at all (I actually still have an intense dislike for them).

It has been 10 years, and I am only now getting over my dislike of musical instruments (and am now learning the piano as it is different and I don't have any residual hatred for it). My old instruments continue to moulder on top of the wardrobe.

[Blu]

Is there an instrument or style of music he really enjoys?

There is more than one way to be musical than playing a classical instrument and working through the grades. Maybe he doesn't enjoy the strings ensemble.

My DS plays guitar - he plays his electric guitar all the time, is in the extra-curricular school rock band and has lessons with a rock / jazz orientated teacher and learns music he likes.

I don't see the point of forcing him to play something he hates and doesn't practice. Does his school have an after school rock band club or something? Talk to him about what he would like to do and support that!

[pixelchick10]

My daughter felt like that with her old violin teacher but still insisted she wanted to play (even though I had to nag her to practise) - she now has a new one and is doing music GCSE and is full of renewed energy for the instrument!

[TeenAndTween]

If he's 12, doesn't enjoy it, and it's a battle to get him to practice, then let him drop it. If he regrets it later in life, he can learn then.

Does he have any non-musical hobbies? It is good for a teen to do something. So maybe insist that music is traded for some other structured activity instead?

[showmethemoney1]

DS is 13 and moved to his senior school this year and decided he would not continue with his instrument, he was grade 4. Like your DS he never practised at home and it seemed pointless to continue.

However, 5 weeks in and he is starting to miss it, he misses being part of a string ensemble and just liked having the instrument around.

I am not going to suggest he starts again in January, I am waiting for him to beg!

[BlogOnTheTyne]

Thanks for the input. He has a VERY busy life because of masses of homework from school which takes most evenings and on and off most of the weekend. He's the kind of child who finds it hard to stick with anything, maintain focus and unlike his twin, doesn't get things over and done with - hence the on/off all w/e nature of homework.

If anything, I want to reduce what he does rather than increase it. He's soon starting a new activity at school/after school along with his twin and this will become the main thing he does. Part of me wants to stop fighting him to work, to practice, to focus and just let him relax.

However, his main relaxation is spending hours of chill out time on PC - partly teaching himself computer generated imagery - or just watching stuff on YouTube etc. He used to be physically more active but is much less so - so the new activity is a physical one.

He has an emotional connection to music, unlike his less musical twin. he loves listening to 'meaningful', minor key music - eg the sound track of films like "Inception" or certain pop songs that aren't main stream. He has 'musicality' in a way his twin doesn't. His twin is a more - play it by the book - person without any emotional connection.

At times, he's asked for me to teach him guitar (I self-taught acoustic decades ago) - but he hates the sore fingers of guitar and viola and prefers keyboard/piano. There are plenty of jazz groups and other poular music groups at school but invariably, the other children particpating are excellent standard (think grade 7 upwards at age 12 on average). No group would really want him as a beginner.

This is what's making me wonder if he should just carry on with viola because if he starts another instrument now, he'll never catch up in time to participate in school music groupa. It feels too late. Other children who take up a third or fourth instrument at 12 onwards have tended to be those who've already achieved grade 7 + in another one and practice a lot but also are VERY good at music.

I don't think he constantly compares himself to his peers, his twin or his cousins. I think it's MUCH more to do with not wanting to have to practice when he's tired, has homework, wants to chill out. If he took up piano again, he'd never play with any school group (there are concert level pianists at the school). So he'd lose the 'social' side of music. But he does like messing around on keyboards.

Thinking outside the box, what unusual instruments are there that don't involve needing a lot of volume of air (he's got a tiny tiny chest - one reason he gave up trumpet), nor hurt your fingers and are fairly quick to progress with a modicum of practice for a fairly musical child?

[YDdraigGoch]

What worked for us was getting DD involved in the local youth wind band and jazz band. Music is a social thing, and best enjoyed with others.
She gets enough sight reading practice at wind band, and the other groups she's now playing with, and that keeps her going between lessons.

[KittiesInsane]

Drums.

[KittiesInsane]

Seriously, though, I'm really saddened to hear that the excellence of the other children around him might put him off taking up a different instrument that he might prefer. Surely someehwere around you there are some normal-level children?

DS1 started flute at 12. Hadn't any experience at all, not even played a recorder.

DD (currently 12) has grade 1 piano and is in no rush to take grade 2.

DS2 changed instrument last year at 14 (and just got grade 6).

They're on the more musical end for children I know (apart from the one in the national youth orchestra I suppose...)

[KittiesInsane]

In fact, does he hate it because half the other children have grade eleventy-three and he feels hopelessly left out? I would.

[OldBeanbagz]

Why not let him have a go at the guitar if you're able to teach him the baiscs? I would think that since he has a strong musical understanding, it wouldn't take him long to get up to guitar group standard.

My DD started in Y3 and has just started working towards Grade 4 in Y7. She's never complained at all about sore fingers but maybe it's becasue she's built up on the practice and toughened up her fingers.

I would let him give up the viola though.

[SilasGreenback]

One of mine does tuned percussion with school groups - chime bars and xylophone type instruments. He has no lessons in this but learns piano so can read read music. It's his only group music thing and he really enjoys it. No out of group practice either.

Drumming is good - all mine have done Samba at various times - seems to be something you can do in bursts -so they might do it one term, miss the next and then pick it up again for another concert.

[KittiesInsane]

Oh god, samba. I'd mercifully blanked that one from my memory shakes head to clear residual hearing loss

[Theas18]

We are a "musical family" too and I understand exactly what you are saying.

It's not that he's a kid who spends all day an night in front of the 'pooter though he ( rightly) does some screen stuff for fun.

Is he at a school where music is a big focus and he'd loose out by not being part of it? That might sway things a bit.THough I can also see the "every one is very good and I'm rubbish" side of it affecting him.

If I were in your shoes though I think I'd let him stop. Not in the way mu mother would " well that's it then....we'll sell the viola and be done with it for ever" but more in an " OK we'll stop the lessons and see what you think in a bit" .

Keep him interested, listening to music of all genres , participating for fun if he wants- mucking about on the piano, singing etc

He can always pick music up later again. he's got a sound grounding , it can still take him places and make him happy :)

[Theas18]

BTW viola is an ideal instrument to take up again later. Adult "for fun" orchestras are always short and actually don't mind if you aren't much good!

[AMumInScotland]

I think you definitely have to let him give up the viola - you say he has never been physically comfortable with it, and it was the school that pushed it rather than being in any way his choice. It's never going to turn into something he actually wants to do.

12 is definitely not too late to pick up another instrument, specially if he has a good feel for music. The basics he has already learned will be transferable, and the physical side will follow, so long as he wants to do it and does at least some practice.

Or, just let him play around with the piano/keyboards for a while and see if he gets some enthusiasm back. Playing in school groups isn't a necessity - for many instruments you can learn and enjoy them solo just as well. Viola is one of the worse ones for that, as it is much more of a group instrument once you get to a decent level.

[ZZZenagain]

He is not giving up on music but he doesn't like the viola.He never felt physically comfortable with it. He doesn't like the string ensemble. Maybe it isn't his type of music, maybe the viola parts are too boring and he is left twiddling his thumbs a lot of the time. Maybe he doesn't like the atmosphere or the other dc. I would let him quit. I think his instruments have been chosen for him (by school recommendation) and now he is telling you what he wants. He is still interested. He wants to learn guitar and he wants to learn piano.

How about he has lessons in jazz piano? He doesn't need to continue with classic. If you can get a teacher who will help him play by ear, he can have a go (with some help) at playing the scores of pieces he likes to watch on YouTube. There are also a lot of scores available for free over the internet, same applies to guitar tabs. He doesn't need to perform in any school group for now.

I think he will progress faster than you think if he wants to do it.

Guitar shouldn't be too painful after viola if he doesn't overdo practice. Guitar only hurt dd (who also plays violin) if she played for hours a day which she did for a while when she had an enthusiastic guitar phase. If he tinkers about for 10-30 minutes a day, his left hand should be tough enough I think. Mind you my dd was practising violin 2-3 hours a day for years before she picked up a guitar so maybe her fingers were tougher than usual. She had a few lessons and then she told me she didn't want them, she just teaches herself guitar when and how she wants and does it for pleasure but not every day. Piano she started 18 months ago and progressed really very, very fast. I think she might even end up better on the piano than the violin and she is quite advanced on the violin for her age. She is about your ds' age. It seems to me that piano is not very difficult cf. strings at the early stages, so you can make swift progress which at some stage slows when it all gets very tricky. She has had a lot of fun out of playing piano and I have never regretted taking up the additional lessons. I also find that strings have a way of winding you up and making people tense (players more than listeners), whereas piano with the balance of the accords generally has a soothing effect. I notice it when I listen to the two and I notice the reaction of our guinea pigs (very scientific I know but I think there is a jot of truth in it).

Does your ds remember bass and violin clefs from when he used to have piano lessons? Probably does or it will come back easily enough and he will have strong left hand fingers so I think he should get quite quickly to a good level on the piano. You cannot compare him with another 13 year old with no experience starting from scratch on the piano.

[BlogOnTheTyne]

Thanks for further feedback. We have to give, I think, 2 full terms notice to end viola - which means staying with it the entire school year now. So he could try grade 4 and then stop at the end of this school year - summer 2014.

He passed grade 3 with one mark under merit yet hadn't done any practise outside his lessons at all. But his peers really all mostly v v good musicians and lots of them play 2 or 3 instruments to a high standard - ie nationally elite level - though it's not a music school. Many of them will take up an instrument and within a year are grades ahead of DS, as they practice and enjoy it and their level of ability makes it easy for them to surge ahead.

DS stopped piano as he never practised and it was yet another battle and then the piano teacher (outside school) left. That was about 5 years ago now though and he only did grade one.

My guess is that DS would say he doesn't want lessons in any instrument at all at this point! The thing is, he'll still have to come along to all the school concerts as a spectator, to watch his much less musical twin playing. So may feel left out.

None of DSs friends are in the string ensemble and this makes a huge difference to him. However, it's compulsory to do an ensemble in your instrument from grade 3 onwards. So whilst he still does viola, he still has to do the ensemble.

Re. teaching him guitar, I was never that competent myself and only know basic chords but I've tried teaching hima few before. He always says his fingers hurt though. I think keyboard/piano (we have both at home) might be what he'd like but not actually to have lessons and have to practice!

I think I'm going to have to have a proper talk with him as I think things are coming to a head. Whatever is decided, he's forced anyway to continue viola for this school year.

[Kez100]

My son is 15, practices very little, and still has trumpet lessons. Passed grade 2 some years ago but then didn't want to do any more grades. He has seen so many friends drop by the wayside having been forced into practice and/or grades and thinks it very sad.

He may well have progressed little in his years at senior school (although his tone has improved a great deal) but he has a love of music generally, plays in the school band (but not solos because he doesn't want to dedicate that much time to it), can jam with others.

If he ever wants to take it seriously, well he has a great starting point.

[Kez100]

Back to the viola......it is possibly not very cool and a bit boring music wise. The trumpet is a great lads instrument and has lots of music more akin to teenagers. Guitars are great lads instruments too. Have you heard the saying "How do you make the coolest guy in school look even cooler?" "Get him to carry a guitar"

[summerends]

It does sound as though he has a natural affinity to music. He's tried the guitar which as everybody says would be a good way to go but does n't like the feel. What sort of music does he like? If jazz then definitely try jazz piano. If not and he likes electronic music then I would encourage him with the keyboard and get him on a course or access to a music tech programme that he can compose with. May be right up his street from what you say. Another possibility to explore would be vocal lessons, great for confidence building and would allow him to diversify.