Extra English & Maths, good. :) One less GCSE, bad. :(

[NotDaphne]

My DD's school has just had the inspectors in and come out as simply adequate, with KS3 provision of English and Maths well below average, especially for the more able students and especially for girls. The school's response is to plan to remove a GCSE, using 2 hours a week that this frees up to boost English and Maths (ie an hour each), with the other 2 hours to be spent on the Welsh Baccalaureate. (Don't get me started on that one. It may be great for kids who are less academic and need more strings to their bow but it's not a fair swap for a GCSE where the top set kids are concerned.)

I want my DD to have higher quality English and Maths and am resigned to paying for tutors if need be and don't see why she has to lose a GCSE for this to happen. Her year is the one getting terminal exam GCSE's to prove to the world how tough this govt. is on education, so not only will it be harder for her to get an A than a student a year older than her, but she will come out of school with one fewer GCSE than students at other schools. Moving schools is not a first choice - she's settled, a hard worker, very well supported by her social group and, as we're in a small town, distance is an issue.

I am meeting with the head teacher soon to try to convince the school to let the top sets (at least) choose to do 10 GCSEs instead of 9 and I need creative ideas to put forward re: provision of higher quality/extra English and Maths without eating into another subject's time or the school's budget.

So far all I can think of is 6th form mentoring for GCSE students, perhaps 6th form led lunchtime/after school clubs, cost-free rewards for students based on attendance at these clubs (eg a non-uniform day or to be allowed into lunch early) and learning logs based around BBC Bitesize homework and signed off by teachers.

Any other suggestions or arguments I could use to persuade the school to make their new plan optional would be much appreciated.

[Kez100]

I have to say, I would prefer great English and Maths results than one extra GCSE. I appreciate what you are saying about top sets, but with poor KS3 provision are they actually on target to get the highest grades within their potential?

[daffodilly2]

Reading lists for high achievers to work through. A reading club where key texts are chatted about.

I think you will have trouble persuading Head as literacy is huge drive by ofsted and hence Heads at the moment. I think difference between 9 and 10 GCSE's is minimal - grades are what matter.

Twilight sessions are becoming fashionable - can your school offer an extra GCSe after school?

Alternatively, Friend's son did Spanish off his won back with uni student teaching him and sat exam through school. Maybe you could get creative and find her an alternative exam.

More English and Maths in long run will help her educationally across most subjects - will boost her for A'level study.

Sorry if I can't be more help - just think Head won't relent on core subject drive, all schools will be going that way and he/she will be watched to follow that initiative to improve results. Particularly true of Wales as literacy is seen to be lagging behind rest of UK there in recent study - Heads are employed to respond to current climate and govt. agenda.

[CecilyP]

I am not entirely sure what the problem is. Is there a subject your DD particularly wants to do that she can no longer study now? Otherwise, I can't see what difference it makes whether a pupil has 9 or 10 subjects; one fewer subject may lactually ead to better grades in those subjects, especially with regards to a terminal exam. If you are resigned to paying tutors for English and Maths, could that time not now be used to take an extra subject privately, if that is what you really want.

If your DD is planning on university, it is her A level grades that will be important; as long as she has the core subjects at GCSE and has the prescribed number, there is no need for one extra.

[senua]

Why is the school below average? Will merely adding extra hours actually solve the problem.

I wouldn't stress too much about the number of GCSEs - Universities only look at the best eight on your list.

For Maths, I would think that the problem could be solved quite easily. The top set, instead of doing more of the same GCSE, have other options open to them - additional Maths, FSMQ, Statistics, etc. Not so easy for English - all I can think of is that they do an AS early.

[KitKatGirl1]

10 would certainly make no difference over 9 GCSEs. A lot of private and grammar school students do fewer GCSEs than those at other schools and they concentrate on the grades (and them being in more 'respected' subjects - for want of a better word). If it gives the children more tutoring in core subjects rather than an extra GCSE at a lower grade, it's a good thing, I think.

[NotDaphne]

Thanks, all. Some good ideas and some very sound points made.

The school is below average after years with a headteacher who has just retired and who, so I was told back in the day, came from a school he'd managed to put into special measures. Forget highest grades within their potential - they're not even on target to get average grades. The feeling I have, and that seems to be echoed by the Estyn (Welsh version of Ofsted) report is that the kids have been dumbed down. I've certainly seen that in her English lessons - Set 1 did Wuthering Heights or somesuch while Set 2 did Alex Ryder. When I queried this with the Head of English the response was that it was too much to expect kids to take on challenging new tasks like writing essays while also giving them a difficult text.

Having said that, the report's only real quibbles were with results (important, mind you) and need for more collective worship in the daily routine. I'm somewhat less vexed with that last one.... The kids are happy and it's a school with a nice feel to it - it just seems that it is blighted by low expectations where KS3 and GCSE English and Maths are concerned.

I can't see that losing the 10th option will improve much more than her English and Maths - an hour a week each will go to those subjects (and that could be compensated for simply by better teaching and/or tutors, much as I'd hate to have to find the cash to pay for it) while the remaining time will go on the Welsh Baccalaureate rather than in boosting the other GCSE subjects she is taking.

I do agree that higher grades for Maths and English are worth going for; I just don't agree with the school that their solution is the only/best way. Other schools manage perfectly well to get decent grades with the same time allocation her school has had until now.

Where it gets a bit complex for my DD is that she already has a goal in life. The 10th GCSE she now won't have time for is History and I'm worried that the school's grand plan for her is actually closing doors for her if she changes goal a little bit down the line. Kids are pressured to know what they want to do in life from very early on these days and she's decided that her future lies in the world of fashion. The very idea makes me want to scream but it's her life and I respect her right to have a dream and to try to make it happen, She's therefore chosen for her 3 Options French, Fashion & Textiles and Art & Design. What worries me is that, if she changes her mind in a few years, as many kids her age will, she won't have room for manoeuvre. She likes History and I could imagine her doing it at university; if she hasn't done it for GCSE, though, she'll struggle to get a 6th form college to let her do it and no top rate university will touch her for it as a degree if she hasn't even got it at GCSE level. (I'm not expecting her to do French at tertiary level - it was amazing that she even chose it as an option.) I rang around a heap of university admissions offices to discuss the impact of her not having History at GCSE level and it really does matter to top universities. None of them rated the Welsh Bacc at all and a couple of admissions tutors (not necessarily history ones) told me off the record that they would be fighting tooth and claw if it was their child losing a GCSE. Universities do just look at the first 8 GCSE's, as a rule, but they want to be impressed and applicants for good courses are up against fierce competition.

So here she is, with the multiple whammy of having a tougher time getting good grades across the board due to harder GCSE's, one fewer GCSE to put on her application forms compared with her peers at other schools and the added threat of having fewer options to choose from at A level and tertiary level if she decides over the next couple of years that actually she is not suited to a career in the world of fashion and textiles. My gut feeling is that she's not the next Coco Chanel (...must make sure she doesn't read this thread) and I want to ensure that she still has a realistic fallback option if she ever needs one.

The Head of Year had agreed at Parents Evening (where all of this was sprung on parents with no consultation) to find out if she could be guaranteed a place for History at A' Level even if she didn't have it at GCSE but has since gone very quiet. That would be a good solution in my mind, as it means she has 2 years grace to decide if she's doing the right thing, but he didn't know if the school would agree to make such promises.

[Honu]

If you don't get any joy then why not have her privately tutored for history GCSE? Then she will still have all her options open.

[Kez100]

I would think actually doing History would support English progress.

[creamteas]

My DS's school let them take A level Geog and History without doing it at GCSE. With a good AS results and high predicted grade at A2, you should still get into a good uni without history GCSE. His friend got into Geog at Leicester this way.

[KitKatGirl1]

Eek, I can you've thought through your reasoning for the extra subject - is there any way on earth she could be persuaded to drop the textiles in lieu of history? I would have thought that that's a subject that doesn't need specialising in too early (if she's also doing art) and not having a GCSE in it wouldn't stop her doing it at college/A level? Though it seems bizarre that you can also do that for History now...
Or, drop the foreign language at school, and take it privately? (Am thinking that languages are more likely to have private tutors around than history or arts?)

[Bletchley]

I think you're right that she should do history, but she should probably drop something else (textiles? as this will duplicate part of art syllabus). Most independent schools only do nine GCSEs, there's really no need for ten.

[NotDaphne]

Unfortunately Textiles and Art are the two she's least likely to want to drop, given that she's interested in fashion as a career. (I hate the notion but am determined to guide rather than force - I got good qualifications at a very good independent school and I've ended up as office fodder...the last thing I want is for her to follow in my footsteps unwillingly.)

Good point about learning French outside of school but the options are chosen now. It was all sprung on us at Options evening so we never had a chance to try to negotiate with the school or even really think it through. I reckon they didn't want parents joining forces against it. I must admit, there are a lot of parents out there who aren't at all bothered and think the school obviously knows what's best.

I think I need to talk to the head of year again and find out if they'd let her take it at A' level before I go in and start lobbying the head teacher with the notion that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

I have a suspicion that the school gets money for doing the Welsh Bacc and will be reluctant to change their plans for that reason. (It was one of the ones due to be rebuilt but the govt. pulled the plug on funding for that.)

Actually, what all your suggestions have made me realise I really need to do is to find out what's realistically available by way of tutoring so I know how hard I need to fight. My nearest big town is a 40 mile round trip and when you add the cost of petrol onto the cost of tutoring if it's not available locally it all adds up.

Thank you all for the input on this. It would be lovely if there was a simple Yes or No answer to it. instead, if I fight it, I feel like I'm depriving her of extra English and Maths at a time when she will need it and if I don't fight it I feel like I'm standing by while she is robbed of a GCSE level qualification and all the skills she'd learn from studying that subject.

[startail]

Of course Welsh schools would have more time if they didn't teach Welsh.

Sorry I went to a Welsh school and know people who work in Wales, but commute to avoid the Welsh education system.

[NotDaphne]

Okay, that's depressing. Just looked at a couple of 'find a tutor' websites and we have a grand total of one tutor locally. (£25 an hour...eek. Yeah, I know, by London standards that's probably chickenfeed.) At least she's female - my husband doesn't feel comfortable with DD having tuition from some unknown bloke. Lots of university students on there but I'm not sure that's ideal.

Ironically, I trained as a History and English teacher many (many) years ago. I am, however, merely my DD's mother and she'd rather go skinny-dipping in January than sit down with me to do schoolwork on a weekly basis. (I did think of tutoring someone else to raise the cash to have her tutored but dismissed that idea because if they did badly at their exams I'd never forgive myself for wrecking their life.)

[NotDaphne]

startail, I am with you all the way. They should be learning Mandarin or Arabic, if anything. The Welsh government seems to feel its job is to prepare children to be good little model citizens who live in Wales for the rest of their lives, with little real acknowledgement that there is a big world out there.

It is compulsory for my DD to learn Welsh and RS, which eats into the time available for other GCSE options. Actually, I have no problem with RS. I taught it for a year and, while it turned me from an agnostic into an atheist (I simply couldn't justify organised religion to teenagers who took no prisoners) I think it is incredibly valuable in explaining to children why the world we live in today is the way it is.

[gelatinous]

Could you sign her up for an online distance learning History iGCSE? I just googled and found this one. The iGCSE has no coursework so would work well from that respect (but there might be a no coursework GCSE syllabus too if you look about), the school would need to be pursuaded to enter her for the exams. You could even consider doing it a year early to keep it separate from the others and give some early exam experience (I think with the new terminal rules doing all the subjects at once will prove quite a challenge).

[NotDaphne]

That's really interesting, gelatinous - thanks for that. I can't see her going for it now but it definitely looks like the sort of thing she could do alongside her A'levels when she's a little more mature. Good thinking outside the square, there - well done, that woman. :)

[KitKatGirl1]

If it would help persuade her, I have two friends who work in fashion (one buying, one designing) and neither specialised earlier than uni/college,ie. Have art gcse and a level, them foundation course, then moved onto fashion degrees. Maybe look at art college requirements too to confirm there's no need to specialise this early?

[startail]

I've never used the Welsh I learnt and would have found Latin (I'm a biologist) or German far more use. However, Welsh and French were compulsory and the others squashed in only if you gave up art in Y9, no one was keen enough to do them for O'level.

There has been various articles in the news about Welsh schools literacy levels, so I'm not surprised the OP's head is getting worried. Not at all fair for the DC caught up in it.

[NotDaphne]

I'd always heard that learning a language - any language - improves your English because it gets your brain examining how you use English. I guess the whole of Wales has decided to prove that wrong.

I didn't even know until a month ago that fashion degrees existed. She had her eye on the new Conde Nast college in London until I found out it costs £19,000 a year. Oh, for a child who wanted to be an accountant....

[NotDaphne]

Sorry KitKatGirl1, what I meant to add was that it's probably better for her to get it wrong at GCSE than to find out later it isn't what she wants. It wouldn't be a problem if the school hadn't narrowed her 'get it wrong' space by removing a GCSE.

[KitKatGirl1]

Good point, and the fact that art and textiles together will be lots of work might put her off? Hope you have some joy in talking with the school. I know lots do do twilight sessions for a second language or second humanity, not sure how you could persuade them to put one no if all the children want something different. Let us know how you get on!

[mrswoodentop]

Obviously not a popular option but I would seriously be looking at a change of school ,the current school sounds pretty dire in many ways and if you are frustrated now you are going to feel worse in a year .

You seem pretty focused on a university education ,i am afraid even in the brave new world of terminal exams 10 Cs will not cut it for most universities ,on the other hand if she is looking at an art foundation course and then fashion college you probably have a bit more time on your hands.

[Kez100]

My daughters is off to a dedicated art college at 16. I fully agree with you wanting her to have the academic grounding, so it is always there. My daughters art college entrance - academically - is low, at four grade Cs but she had one of the hardest interviews - its all about passi