What is an appropriate punishment from school in this situation? Bit long - sorry!

[lilibet]

Ds2 is 14, he is on the school rugby and football teams, winning prizes for both in the last school year. He is forcast an A in the subject at GCSE. He loves all things sport at achool and is very good at all apects of it. He is not* a model pupil, he in constanly in trouble for not having his shirt tucked in, top button undone and his homework is a bit hit and miss in some subjects, but he could be an awful lot worse IYSWIM.

Before half term in February he came across one of the PE teachers in the corridor and challenged his team selection for the football team. He was alone when he did this. Ds2?s argument was that there were boys who never went to training who automatically got a place whereas some boys turned up for training every week and didn?t even get on the bench. He had been picked for this match and had attended training. The teacher told him that this ?wasn?t five a side? and it was his team and up to him to make the selection. Ds2 described him at this point as ?angry?, the conversation continued, Ds2 admits that he had a tone in his voice and it ended with him saying that he no longer wanted to be on the team. What he was supposed to do if he wanted to quit the team was go to a meeting with the teacher and Head of PE and submit his resignation in writing, this meeting was set for the following day and he forgot to go ? I can believe this ? he forgets everything if it isn?t written down. He was then called to the Head of PE?s office and given his punishment.

In your opinion what would have been suitable?

[caughtinanet]

Well as he doesn't want to do football anymore there's no point in a football related punishment so I guess they've maybe banned him from the rugby team.

TBH he sounds very disrepectful to the teacher however unreasonable his team selection was (and I can see exactly why he was annoyed at that).

It sounds like he's at a private school with very high standards so he must expect a severe punishment.

[belledechocchipcookie]

Well, he was very rude to the teacher. Questioning the teacher's decisions was not on. I'd say a detention would be suitable. Yous son did actually say he didn't want to be on the team so did technically resign.

Is he dyspraxic?

[noblegiraffe]

Sounds like a load of bollocks to me. Being on a team is voluntary, no? Shouldn't take two minutes to quit.

Lunch detention for lack of organisation?

[noblegiraffe]

Hang on, what's the punishment for, missing the meeting, or questioning the team selection procedure?

Those who suggest that a student shouldn't dare question anything obviously haven't heard of the importance of Student Voice.

And putting kids on the team who can't be arsed to turn up to training over kids who do is a bit crap, to be honest.

[caughtinanet]

I missed the bit about missing the meeting, that's pretty bad as well as presumablely two teachers wated their time waiting for him.

If the school checkts that buttons are done up a detention just isn't going to enough for them.

noblegiraffe - being on a team is voluntary but all members have a responsibilty to the team as a whole. A 14 year old on two school teams must be very good and its right that the school has high standards for team behaviour.

[BellsaRinging]

Yes, caughtinanet, but the team responsibility bit apparently doesn't extend to requiring the members of the team to turn up to training! Tbh I do think that the op's son has a bit of a point, although badly and rudely expressed. Since when are members of a team selected when they can't be bothered to turn up to train? And the meeting to resign also seems to be ott. However, it may have been used if he had turned up, to discuss issues around resignation, and to see if those issues could be resolved.
On the whole I think he should have been disciplined for the rudeness and for forgetting the appointment. Detentions would appear to be the way to go, or something else appropriate-helping out with practice for the younger boys, etc. But I would be wondering about the sports department and the messages it's sending out.

[lilibet]

Not a private school with high standards, ( I wish!)but a normal secondary school and no he isn't dyspraxic.

He was very rude yes, and I don't dispute that he deserved punishing.

He has been banned from all extra cirricular activities until September and can't even go and watch the teams play.

We weren't told of this happning until we got a bit suspicious of the contstant excuses as to why he hadn't been training. He didn't tellus as he thought we would be ashamed. We didn't even get a note in his homework diary.

Yes I am very ashamed that he was rude and disrespectful to a teacher, but I think, he was speaking up for others and also chose not to do it in front of mates/team/class.

I thnk detention/ short term ban would be appropriate (plus a bollocking at home!)

We are in 'correspondence' with the Head of PE and I'm wondering how far to take it.

[belledechocchipcookie]

I'd go to the head, it's far too excessive and he's also in the teams to support the school, they also gain from this.

[caughtinanet]

OK, that's waaaaay too harsh, but you know that.

I'd skip the correspondence with the head of PE and go straight to the Head.

I wish my local state school had such high expectations of the pupils.

[noblegiraffe]

What has the Head of PE said?

And what was the punishment for? Missing the meeting? Challenging a selection procedure? Dropping out of the team?

[noblegiraffe]

If you're in correspondence with the Head of PE, I'd ask why kids who couldn't be bothered to turn up to training still made the team.

[lilibet]

We have received this in the last hour

Dear Lilibet and DH


I'm sorry you are dissatisfied with the way in which I have dealt with this issue. I'd like to start by saying that it is, and was, my intention to make decisions that are in the best interests of everyone concerned. As the problem was related to extra curricular activities I didn't consider it necessary to formalise the situation in the way that would have been the case if it had occurred in, or been related to, curriculum lessons. As a consequence the matter hasn't been recorded on Ds2's conduct log or been referred to the pastoral managers. I apologise if you would have preferred a more formal resolution. Should any further issues of this nature occur I will ensure I contact you directly to avoid any confusion.



I'd like to emphasise that the sanction of excluding Ds2 from extra curricular activities was not decided upon because he questioned Mr xxxx's team selection. Ds2 has been excluded because he told Mr xxxx that he no longer wanted to play for the school football team. He then failed to attend a meeting to discuss the matter and failed to bring a letter to formalise his intentions. When Ds2 was asked why he hadn't either attended the meeting or brought a letter he dismissed the issue by saying that he had forgotten about it. Had Ds2 genuinely forgotten an apology would have been appropriate and yet at no point has Ds2 expressed any remorse nor did he make any attempt to rectify the situation by bringing the required note.



The policy of requiring a written resignation from the Football and Rugby teams is in place to avoid pupils withdrawing from teams on a whim. It is a policy which helps to ensure the effectiveness of the school teams and it has been used to good effect with other students in previous years. This policy was comprehensively explained to Ds2 and his team mates at the start of the year and Ds2 was reminded of the policy by Mr xxxx when Ds2 first voiced his intention to resign. Had Ds2 taken the opportunity to either withdraw from the football team in the appropriate manner or speak to Mr xxxx and express his regret for withdrawing from the team in the manner he chose he wouldn't be in the predicament he now finds himself.



I'd like to reiterate that this issue will have no bearing on his opportunities to progress in GCSE PE and that if he would like to resume his involvement with the school teams in Year 10 then he will be more than welcome to do so. I mentioned that this sanction has been used with other students and it may be of some reassurance to know that on each occasion I have employed this strategy the pupils concerned have resumed a full and successful involvement with the PE department. I hope this will be the case for Ds2.



According to Ds2 he did apologise.

Waht are your thoughts?

[Bucharest]

It sounds ridiculous! Almost as if they're saying "OK, if he doesn't want to play, then we'll make damn sure he can't!"

[caughtinanet]

It sounds like the Head of PE isn't going to back down so I'd suggest a face to face meeting with you/DS/Head of PE and Head of school.

If your DS wants to carry on with the extracurriculars then he'll probably have to apologise again. The head will be in a very difficult position as he can't really over rule the punishment particularly if it has been given in the past.

A meeting is the way to go.

[balia]

Hmm...are you sure this is the first time he has challenged members of staff? It just sounds like a response to a continuous attitude, rather than a one off. Perhaps the school feel that his involvement in sport is becoming detrimental to his academic performance as well as his behaviour? I wouldn't ask about the team (at this point) as that could be seen as supporting your DS's attitude in the first place?

[noblegiraffe]

Was your DS aware of this policy? I thought it sounded like they were making it up as they were going along, but if he did know the consequences, than that's slightly different.

I would question the fairness of the policy. If he had done this after Easter, the 'banning till September' would be a much shorter punishment, which isn't fair. Better would be a certain number of weeks.

[gingeroots]

Don't know what to suggest ,sorry .
Would vote for mtg and involving head ...but but they'll close ranks .
I think something warranting so serious a punishment needs to be explained to parents ( so that they can support the school of course ) in advance .
ie should appear in school's behaviour policy ,you know where they spell out behaviour a warrants punishment b ,further incidents of behaviour a warrants punishment c etc .
They do have a published behaviour policy don't they - easily accesible and clear .
They don't make it up as they go along do they ?
And claim ," this is what we always do ? "

And frankly this bit
As the problem was related to extra curricular activities I didn't consider it necessary to formalise the situation in the way that would have been the case if it had occurred in, or been related to, curriculum lessons. As a consequence the matter hasn't been recorded on Ds2's conduct log or been referred to the pastoral managers. I apologise if you would have preferred a more formal resolution. Should any further issues of this nature occur I will ensure I contact you directly to avoid any confusion
sounds like a threat .
I guess it should have been referred to pastoral managers - perhaps their role is one which rises above knee jerk punishment where the miscreant isn't even sure exactly what he's being punished for .

[lilibet]

I saw that bit as a threat too Ginger

Yes they do have a policy but I suppose it has to be a bit vague as they can't cover ever eventuality.

Balia - if it was a reaction to a longer problem we should have been told before it reached this stage, then we could have nipped it in the bud. that's one of the things, we have never been told what was going on.

[gingeroots]

Mmm ,bet PE teacher didn't go through " formal channels " because unlikely this type of punishment would be supported .

[roisin]

berlimey! That sounds very ott punishment to me.
So does that mean he is now doing neither football nor rugby teams for the school?

I would have thought fine, ban him from the football training, watching matches or whatever. But not "all extra curric", that's mahoosive.

(I feel compelled to comment that the standard of English from your PE department is better than most though )

[cornsilkee]

They are using him as an example and exerting their power. Totally OTT.