Depressed and alcoholic dh how do i help him?

[unyummy]

Dh told me last week that he is depressed, and has been going down for a while. He has cycles of depression so this is nothing new, they are often triggered and definitely tied up with him drinking. He agreed that drinking was making things worse.

Today i went out most of the day, called him at 6 and he was drunk. We have 2 dc, one is a new baby, and as his drinking has increased his involvement with the kids has decreased, I am getting up to do night feeds and then up early while he sleeps - sometimes as he is hungover sometimes as he is just down and tired. I was so angry today to find him drunk and with the house in a state, when i got home he said sorry and then " I need your help. I'm f*ed up" I told him i was too angry to discuss it or to be of any help to him while he was drunk and for him to go to bed as i was having to sort house and dinner out and he was just slumped at the table and i was furious with him for the state he was in. I said what do you want me to do and he said be a bit nicer to me - but really i am nice to him all the time until he pushes me with his selfishness.

We have been down this route before, he has been to AA sometimes and other times just stopped drinking and got himself out of it. This time i think he is in a real mess but i just dont think i have the strength to help him. What can i do? I do love him but he is such hard work and i just cant bear the idea of having one more dependent that i have to look after at the moment, as callous as that might sound. I know from reading al anon stuff that i cant make him stop drinking but i need some kind of practical solution while we try to work on things. Anyone help?

[runawayquickly]

Bump
I have no experience of this sort of thing but hoping someone who does will come along for you soon.
Does sound like dh is aware there's a problem though, so don;t they say that's the first hurdle? He's asking for help, and if you don't have the strength to do it yourself (and god knows, with 2 dcs I don't blame you) then maybe it's worth a wee bit of sitting down together and working out some sort of plan for who CAN? Sure there's lots out there.
Hope you're ok and wishing you luck.

[LittleMontyontheDustyRoad]

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

have you ever seen this thread?

I posted on there a while ago about a friend of mine and they were brilliant.

I wish you all the best.

[SolidGoldpiginablanket]

SOrry you're having to deal with this. Please remember that you matter too, and your feelings matter every bit as much as his. ONe of the hardest things about being the partner of an addict or someone with depression is that everything quickly becomes all about that person, helping them, managing them, etc. YOur GP may be able to help if your H will agree to going to the doctor and asking for help.

[snowkitten]

unyummy! OMG this could be my thread. Look up Mental health - I think my dh is having a nervous breakdwon and I don't know what to do. There have been some brilliant posters on there and I am getting some fantastic support. Good luck

[unyummy]

Thanks everyone i have been reading the general thread and yours snowkitten - i wish you good luck with the awful situation you are in, you are right you've had some amazing advice. I have had a long chat with sober dh this morning the plus is that he recognises he has a problem with both alcohol and depression the downside is that he says the underlying problem is that he just hates himself and drinks to numb that. He was addicted to heroin years ago, he's been clean for 18 years and would never go back but he is obviously an addict and is just using alcohol now instead. He doesnt drink that much but it's the frequency - every night - and the way it makes him negative and depressed that makes him and me think he needs help.

I have made him get up and washed and dressed and he tried to make a doctors appt but they are busy until January tho they told him to call back tomorrow am - will they make emergency appts for ths type of thing?

In the meantime i am trying very hard not to nag or be too hard on him but i am worried about the next few weeks as we have lots of social situations to get through where it's going to be hard for him not to drink - his family are quite hard work at the best of times and we have lots of friends visiting for christmas.

The hardest thing for me is doing all the things suggested in the detachment link someone posted - i find it hard not to remind him not to drink as i know when he does he is sending himself down the same old spiral and i'm the one up at 6 am with the kids.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

You say you have been down this route before. You may end up going down it a lot more times without further success.

Short answer is he will not be able to give up drink without proper professional help. The problem for you here is that he has to want to do this for his own self, you cannot do it for him. You as his wife are the last person who can help him. I do not mean that unkindly but that is fact. You to him are his enabler.

Sounds like too he wants you to do all the legwork for him, this is not an option. This is also an indicator that he is making his problem yours, he cannot abrogate his responsibility but is trying to. Alcoholics are truly the world's most selfish individuals.

Only going to AA on occasion just shows he is not yet willing, serious and or able to give up drink. There are no guarantees here, he could lose everyting and still drink.

Do you actually see any future with this man, what about you. What do you want?. You need to emotionally detach. You have to do so, not detaching does not help you.

You're as much caught up in this as he is.

Alcohol acts as a depressant, self medicating with alcohol has only replaced one problem with another. Your H will need to get to the heart of the matter re his depression and work through his demons properly otherwise they will keep coming back.

What are your children learning from you both here?. It will do them no favours to grow up in such a chaotic household in the longer term.

Did he call the GP?. Bet he did not.

[SueMunch]

Can only echo Attila

My DP went down a similar route. Looking back, he feels that he had depression but didn't know how to deal with.

It's a common thing to self-medicate with alcohol. To the outsider this can just look like pure selfishness.

I can't speak for your DH obviously. But my DP desribed expereincing sadness and dark thoughts for such a long time. I think if he went to the doctor immediately then it wouldn't have escalated.

But the male thing about not wanting to appear weak kicked in I think and he began to drink to feel better, then drank more when it stopped working.

What he didn't realise was that the alcohol only intensifies the depression.

My DP abstained for three months and within weeks began to see a difference. His thinking became clearer and he was able to unravel a lot of poor thinking and decisions. He was also helped in this with counselling sessions.

I'm not saying this is the route to go down, but if he can stop drinking he will give his mind and body time to recover.

[Tanee58]

Hi Unyummy, I'm in a similar boat to you and have been for the last three years. The Addicts thread has a lot of good advice and support. AttilatheMeerkat sounds fierce (Hi Meerkat) - and what she says may sound harsh to you - it did to me when I dropped into the thread some time ago - and she may say things you don't want to hear yet - but she is spot on. It takes time to reach the point of not just agreeing with her, but also following her advice. It's taken me three years.

Your DH HAS to do this for himself. Not for you, not for your dcs, but for HIMSELF. And he has to persevere, not just drop into AA occasionally or try to stop on his own. I hope he makes that phonecall to the doctor tomorrow, and I hope he does it without you having to get him out of bed or prompting him. If he does, it will show that he really DOES want help, and therein lies hope. And again, YOU cannot give him that help. It has to come from a professional. The only way you can help him - and yourself - is by detaching. It's something I am working on now, with my depressed and alcoholic DP and it may or may not work, but I am still learning and occasionally I know I will slip up, because I do love him. Our future may not lie together, I am slowly trying to face that (my DD has already decamped away from the insanity) - but MN and the advice and support of some of its regular members has probably kept me sane!

Detaching WILL be hard, because your urge is to help. Ignore his drinking. Don't count the bottles, don't comment on his state, don't engage in arguments, don't cover for him with his family or friends (if he drinks too much over Christmas and makes a spectacle of himself, let him. His behaviour is not your responsibility. Don't pick up after him. Don't ask him what HE wants YOU to do. Basically, withdraw.

Thinking of yourself, have you tried going to Al Anon? I went to my first meeting last week, and mean to stick with it. This is too much for you to deal with on your own. Al Anon will really be able to help you to help yourself. YOU are important. You could also ask your GP to refer you to a counsellor, for yourself. Living with a depressed person who's also self-medicating with alcohol, drags you down and you need support and help as much as he does - if not more.

Good luck - and check out the Addicts thread

Wow! I'm beginning to feel like Attila!

[unyummy]

Thank you. He did call the GP - I gave him my phone as the number was in it, and heard him speak to them and he's such a bad liar he wasnt pretending!! I hope he does call tomorrow but is it really unhelpful for me to do that for him if he doesnt? Or to wake him up to make sure he does? I think he does really want to stop and be better, he recognises that i am not happy as things are and that i wont tolerate much more of this. I just feel so miserable today thinking about what is unfolding in front of me.

When i say we have been through this before i mean he has stopped before. The pattern is he gets to a very low point, has a wake up call where he begins to drink in the daytimes as well as in the evenings, or similar, and is getting depressed or sometimes anxious, just generally dark and negative. He then tells me he needs to give up drink, usually goes to some meetings, gives up, then stays off booze for a month - the most he has done while i've been with him is 4 months but before he managed 3 years sober whilst a student so he can do it! When he starts again he drinks reasonably and it seems it will be ok but it invariably ends up with him back at the starting point of low and needing to stop.

But as you say Atilla and yes it does sound harsh, i am starting very slowly to wonder what is in this for me. When he is on form and sober he is lovely and a good father, when not he is lazy, selfish and volatile.

I did say to him earlier that i didnt want the kids to grow up with this behaviour and that although i had no idea how i would leave him, that i was thinking about it. He said he knew and that the fear of losing me and the kids made him drink more!

I will try and find and attend al anon in the new year. I need to talk with people in real life, i have good friends and have told them about some of this before but i'm not sure they really understand how bad it is, maybe you need to have experienced it. I am making lots of new friends through my dc and i feel this is a bit much to unburden on to them.

[SolidGoldpiginablanket]

OK he is definitely trying to make it your problem ie blame you for the fact that he drinks too much 'the fear of losing you and the kids makes him drink more' my arse. It's NOT your fault, and you staying with him is not the 'only' thing that will save him from alcoholisim. HE is the only person who can save him. You deserve not to be dragged down with him, as do the DC.
I think you probably need to insist he enters some sort of treatment programme or he leaves the house. He may need to leave the house while he's having treatment (sometimes addicts coming off whatever it is become really impossible and unsafe to live with - their frustration and self-hatred makes them abusive to their families - you MUST throw him out if that starts.)

[Snorbs]

unyummy, so it sounds like the cycle of your DH's alcohol abuse is:

1. He's sober, everything is ok
   
2. Convinced he no longer has a problem, he starts drinking "normally"
   
3. The drinking gets heavier
   
4. He starts to lose the plot
   
5. The drinking gets worse as does his mood
   
6. Some particularly bad event happens that convinces him it's out of control
   
7. He stops for a while.
   
8. Go back to (1)
   
   Does that sound reasonably accurate? If so, how long does it take him to go through this cycle? A few weeks, a few months, a few years?

[verytellytubby]

Find an Al-Anon meeting for yourself. I found it really supportive.

[unyummy]

Snorbs yes more or less, he has parts where he can drink socially but then it creeps up and he is drinking every night. It's about 1/2 to a bottle of wine a night, and the odd small bottle of whisky. It's not really ever heavy, but definitely frequent ie every night. The cycle is probably 6 months average, with days or weeks where he will make an effort not to drink like when i was pregnant or when he has a lot of work on and can switch off and get up early and get things done. As i say he has managed to stop up to 3 months here and there. It doesn't help that we are friends with a lot of big drinkers and have a good social life, dinners, pub etc.

Solidgold i dont think he meant that, he was saying that he knows if he carries on that i will leave and that stupidly that's one of the many things that makes him want to drink more, to forget it iyswim.

We have had a big discussion this evening and he has promised to try and sort himself out by going to AA meetings, the gp for a health check and to discuss the drinking/depression, and possibly counselling for both of us. He is sincere and i know he is very strong and capable of all this, but i have said i will give him a year and if he falls back into it during that time i will go. He says he loves me and the kids too much to keep messing it up, and that he has had enough of the above cycle. I feel quite positive having talked properly, he does know himself pretty well and is good at evaluating what is going wrong. Though i am aware the proof will be in the pudding.

I know someone further up the thread recommended counseling. Does anyone know if relate or similar do couples counseling specifically for addicts? Or will the gp be able to recommend for both of us? Or indeed should we go separately..?

Finally, does this detachment idea come from Al Anon? Would i encounter it if i went to counseling relating to our relationship and addiction? I havent really heard of it before and am intrigued, but dont think i can apply it just by reading about it.

[snowkitten]

good for you unyummy - my dh downs about 2 bottles pernight every night, I have never know him to take a break from it EVER

[2rebecca]

I couldn't live with an alcoholic. Once it started we'd be separating and if he came back and restarted he'd be out again. I have seen enough people dragged down with alcoholics to not do that to me and my kids.
He's your partner not your patient and if he starts selfishly drinking and not behaving like a partner then the relationship is over until he sorts himself out.
Alcoholics are always depressed because alcohol in large quantities makes you depressed, blaming the drinking on the depression is getting it the wrong way round.
In general psychiatrists won't treat alcoholics until off the booze as they know it is pointless.
Is he actually working at the moment? If not and it's your money he's drinking all day that would annoy me more as he's then being totally parasitic.

[llareggub]

Oh rebecca2, it is so easy for you to say that you couldn't live with an alcoholic. But when you are living with that situation it isn't actually that simple.

My DH is an alcoholic and has been sober for 3 years. He goes to AA as often as he can and goes more often when he feels the need. He speaks to his AA pals daily and it is a huge source of support.

When he first told me that he was an alcoholic I was actually quite shocked. I'd just had a baby and he'd become really quite effective at hiding his drinking and acting normally. Like yours it turned out he was depressed and he now takes anti-depressants.

I didn't know about detachment but looking back this is exactly what I did. Now I am quietly supportive but I won't say that it has been easy. We still have the underlying reasons for his addiction to address and there are blips where he hides things from me. Not drinking, but things that he thinks will worry me. BUt generally we have come a long way and we've adapted our lives quite a bit to try and avoid stressful triggers in our lives.

I've given up drinking too to support him and I don't miss it. Probably lots of people will tell you to leave him and I would too if he refuses to seek help. It is pointless going to AA once or twice. You have to keep going for it to work.

SOrry. I've rambled a bit but I have a baby on my lap. Good luck. Happy to chat more if you want.

[Tanee58]

Umyummy, Relate probably isn't the best place. We tried it for a few sessions last year, but the counsellor very quickly realised that our problems weren't strictly to do with our relationship, but with how DP's depression and drinking was affecting it, and that's too specialized for Relate counselling. She suggested he seek individual counselling through our GP. He refuses. He says he is too old to deal with the pain that therapy would involve (he's only 55 and too damaged to heal now - and that our relationship is also too damaged - he'd rather drink himself to death than choose life - and me.

I am so happy that your DH is willing to get help and I so hope it works. It sounds like he will need to give up alcohol completely, and resist any kind of social drinking. Or even mince pies with brandy in them! If mine would do this, I would happily give up drinking myself. Mine, also, has two bottles a night. When I counted up the units, I was terrified.

Remember, you did not cause the drinking, you cannot cure it. That's from AlAnon. If he is drinking more because he fears you will leave, that is HIS choice and his responsibility, not yours.

It will be hard to learn detachment on your own. That's where a trained therapist or Al Anon can help. Your GP will be the best person to refer you for counselling, both with your DH, or alone. At some point, your DH's counsellor may want to see you too. I do hope it's not too late for you and I am SOO glad your DH wants to go for tests etc. I so wish mine would - him agreeing to see the GP would be the best Christmas present I could have. After a horrendous scene last night, when DP ranted about my lovely DD and how she's destroyed us (long story) - and I collapsed in shock on the stairs, I really am feeling that it may be too late for us.

[SolidGoldpiginablanket]

Tanee, so sorry you are having to put up with this. Do you think you could find the strength to kick him out? Because it sounds like he has given up on taking any responsiblity for himself, and it simply isn't right or fair that you shold have to be dragged down with him.

[snowkitten]

tannee58 - that sounds horrendous. my dh will not get help- or even acknowledge that he has aproblem. Blames everything on either me, work pressures or family life. He is both depressed adn an alcholic (mine is the 2 bottles a day man). There have been so many extreme alcohol related incidents taht I cannot list them here. INcluding me calling an ambulance in the middle of the night as he was choking to death, vomitting black bile and lying in a poolof his own piss. This was the night i told him i was pg with ds2 . The day ds was born he got so drink he collapesed on the delivery room floor. We don't really have a family life as I do 99% of everything alone (with lo's of course). I have started a thread ofmy own in Mental Health as I think he is having a breakdwon. Sorry to ramble but your situatino is reminiscent of mine . wWhat you gonna do?

[2rebecca]

I really don't understand why you stay with these men. Why make life harder for yourselves than it needs to be?

[Tanee58]

Rebecca, if I were you, I would be thinking the same. Why do we stay? It's complex - and we know that they ill - it's takes time before you give up hope.

Snowkitten, sounds like we have similar problems - 2 bottles a day men. Yours won't admit he has a problem, mine DOES admit it, but is too scared to seek professional help, saying he's too old and tired to go through the pain of therapy - and he doesn't WANT to stop drinking.

Can I kick him out? Well, I have asked him to leave. He SAYS he wants to leave, but he won't bloody go! He says many contradictory things. He's gone to his mother's for Christmas. I have 'outed' him to his siblings and they are going to try talking to him - it's our last chance to get him to seek help. Otherwise yes, I think we are reaching the end of the road.

[snowkitten]

have a good christmas Tanee - I wish you all hte best. :[)

[Tanee58]

Thanks Snow, I hope you have a good one too - and with both of us enduring life with partners who are probably have breakdowns, I also wish us better things for next year.

[snowkitten]

my day was utter shit . hope your was better

[MIFLAW]

"Snorbs yes more or less, he has parts where he can drink socially but then it creeps up and he is drinking every night. It's about 1/2 to a bottle of wine a night, and the odd small bottle of whisky. It's not really ever heavy, but definitely frequent ie every night."

Afraid to say that for the majority of the population that is both heavy AND frequent.