where to from here? Suspect is it too late!

[blahdiblahblah]

Will try and keep it brief...
We have DS 2.5 years.
Whenever DH and I fight (and usually over such small things) it escalates, and although I try and talk rationally he just refuses to listen to anything I hate to say and ends up shouting and ALWAYS resorts to slagging me off.
Today he called me a "f*king cnt" in front of our son
Yes, he has done it before.
When I ask him how he can possibly justify this and think it is acceptable he says it is my fault because "I pushed him". Like he has no responsibilty for what comes out his mouth!
Doubt he will ever change.
Also says really upsetting things like he wonders all the time if he would still be with me if DS wan't born. We have been together 12 years!
I try not to let his juvenile insults wear me down but of course they do, but my main concern is I dont want my son growing up exposed to that kind of behaviour and thinking it is normal.

[YanknCock]

I am always stunned when I read posts like this.

Of course HE has responsibility for what comes out of his mouth. He could walk away, but he chooses to say things like that in front of your son, who is at an age to mimic and repeat.

My brother and I were exposed to lots of fighting and name calling when we were kids. Personally, I wish they'd split up. Then I wouldn't have spent my childhood/early adulthood trying to referee their fights and determine who was in the wrong--alternately withholding affection to which ever parent I dubbed 'wrong' for that particular incident.

You are right to think this will affect your child. If your H doesn't see that, he's an idiot. Don't know what else to say.

[aseriouslyblondemoment]

thats horrible to read that
i think you know what course of action to take as you are aware that he isn't likely to change
and as well as your concerns for your son do think of yourself as well here
it's no way to live your life and not an example of how marriage should be to a child

[blahdiblahblah]

it sounds like a cliche, but he us a great dad etc etc... except when he does this he just belittles everything, DS will lose respect for one, if not both of us, if he is constantly exposed to it.
And, frankly, DH should have the decency to not call me that regardless of whether DS was in earshot
He says I make him feel stupid which upsets him..... I don't think he is stupid but I think he handles any conflict in extreme, counter-productive ways (ie: name calling etc etc).

sigh....

just not sure what to do. Right now I feel like I just don't care if I never see him again, but I also dont want to throw everything away if it could be "fixed". I have a horrible fear that this will just get papered over and happen again... and again...

[aseriouslyblondemoment]

sounds like my ex husband

[YanknCock]

Perhaps he 'feels stupid' because he IS stupid. How is his son going to feel about him when he hears his mother called 'fucking cunt'? Either he'll grow to hate his father, or he'll learn it's ok to call names and disrespect you.

It will only get papered over if you let it.

My dad was a 'great dad' too. Until he was fighting with my mother, and made me choose.

It's said that the best thing you can do for your children is 'love your spouse', and growing up without that, I firmly believe it is true.

If your relationship is bad, being in the same house will do more damage than splitting up and allowing each of you to develop a relationship with your son. He can still be a great dad, even if he has been a shitty spouse.

[cestlavielife]

sounds like my ex too....

sorri but you going to have to take soem action here.

or it will be four five six years down the line and nothing will have changed...

"it's your fault"

"wonders all the time if he would still be with me if DS wan't born"

like a script, heard these so many times.... i thought i was staying with him "for teh children" and that thigns ouwld eventually drift nicely and amicably apart as they got older....i was so wrong....it got worse, he exploded more and more.

he WONT change unless he wants to.

but you can change the way you deal with this infantile behaviour...see a counsellor, talk it through, get him to leave or leave yourself......

he can still be a good father to his son wihtout living with you and putting you thru hell.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Blah,

re your comment:-

"it sounds like a cliche, but he us a great dad etc etc"

Yeah right, not at all convinced. He is patently NOT a good Dad if he is verbally abusing his wife and the mother of his child in such a manner.

What are you both teaching your son about relationships here?. You are both imparting damaging lessons to him. Your son won't thank you for staying with his Dad longer term if you didn't act. And if you make it "okay" for your H to start on you in such a manner, he will likely start on your son particularly when he gets into his teens.

Do not continue to paper over the cracks in your relationship (he has been verbally abusive towards you previously) but seek help for own self from Relate and Womens Aid. If he won't go to Relate (I doubt that such a man would go along) go on your own.

Unless your man is fully prepared to accept any sort of responsibility this cannot be fixed. Fixing things has to be done by both parties; it cannot be just you trying and you should not even try to fix him. You are not a "failure" if you and your son walk away.

Such men also rarely if ever change for the better.

You are not responsible for him ultimately - only you and your son.

[blahdiblahblah]

thanks for your replies.

A friend told me that as much as she likes him, he has really "put me through the mill"

It is so hard to reconcile in my head because he has always been my friend and partner and I can't quite comprehend where all this hatred comes from.

There are definitely issues here - he always talks down to me when his brother is around, and his home life was pretty terrible, so I feel sorry for him bit. But I can't keep making excuses for him.

He thinks it is all my fault - he told me I am driving a wedge into this relationship, he really seems to not see how damaging his behaviour is.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Not all people however, who have had dysfunctional childhoods end up being abusive to their spouses. People make choices.

If he has indeed had a crap childhood then he himself needs to seek help with regards to those times. He has deeply rooted problems and the hatred likely comes from seeing his own parents relationship dysfunction. These are problems that you cannot fix. You cannot make him seek help in that regard; he has to want to help his own self. He cannot continue to use you as his whipping boy or verbal punchbag - you cannot allow yourself to be used like that.

You may well feel sorry for him but he is not giving you the same consideration by his actions. Not taking any responsibility for his actions is bad news for you - it is another indicator that he is unlikely to change.

[YanknCock]

and yes, blahdiblahblah, he shouldn't be calling you that, regardless of whether your son is listening!

I've been in a few LTRs and two marriages, and NO ONE has ever called me names, no matter how big the fight. NOT ACCEPTABLE.

[blahdiblahblah]

I have lots to think about.
Going to pick up DS now, and then meeting a friend for a drink or 3 later...
I need to escape my own thoughts for a bit

[blahdiblahblah]

Atilla, something you wrote there has struck a chord with me - you said we are both teaching DS negative things about marriage. I hadn't thought about that before. I am just as much at fault for staying in this relationship and thereby allowing DS to be exposed to DH's rants at me.

[aseriouslyblondemoment]

that was actually the same point that i tried to make blah
and was prob.the realisation of that made me end mine

[blahdiblahblah]

and how are you now?

[aseriouslyblondemoment]

divorced, but happy to get my life back again
dc see their dad
and despite everything i feel that it's the best thing that i could have done for them getting out of that situ

[blahdiblahblah]

well I have done a lot of thinking, and there is lots more to do. I think I might go away for the night somewhere, with DS. DH will probably try and turn that round and accuse me of trying to take our son away from him! It is always about him, I dont think he is capable of compassion - wouldn't think about or care about how hurt I would need to be to resort to going away for a night.
Anyway, I e-mailed him last night (talking not an option as being ignored and he would just end up shouting anyway) and told him that if he wants this to work he needs to accept that they way he treats me is wrong, and then we go to counselling. Even then, the counsellor might make us see that there is no way forwad anyway. If he doesnt want to do it, the we have to seperate as I do not want DS to see that verbal abuse again

[ssd]

blah, I think the man you have in your head that you are married to and the actual real man are 2 different people

do you think counselling would work?

does he accept his actions?

[blahdiblahblah]

ssd, you may be right
we havent spoken yet but I ams ticking to my guns:
counselling or we split,

[bettyboo26]

Hi blah,

have just read your post and have got to say, I could have written it myself a year ago.
I have now seperated with DS's dad for the very reasons you decribe.
I knew that if I stayed eith exH, I was showing my son that this was an acceptable way for a women to be spoken to and treated and he would no doubt repeat the pattern.
ExH blamed his childhood etc as a reason(excuse) for the way he treated me and I accepted this for a very long time.
He too, is wonderful with Ds and it made my decision to seperate so hard.
I found the strengh and knew that I had to do it sooner rather than later(Ds was only 10 months).
I am now a single Mummy to a beautiful,happy 16 month old.I can honestly say life has never been so 'stable'.
I lived in limbo for a very long time and when I look back I don't recognise the person that I had become.
I really hope you can find the strength to leave this man. He will never change and you are worth so much more.
Good luck blah

[blahdiblahblah]

the part that I am really grappling with, is that this is how it is when we argue, so it is not all the time.Although as the arguments stem from such minor things, it is not really possible to avoid them!
The rest of the time, we get along pretty well, have fun, laugh etc.

[MrsMattie]

I am stunned by this sort of post, too. Your own husband called you a 'fucking cunt'?. I would give him an ultimatum: get help for your foul temper and disgusting mouth NOW, or I am leaving you. That's what I'd do. The worst bit of it is, your son will pick this up. This is his main male role model, the person who is teaching him how to be a man. And he calls his son's mother a cunt. Disgusting.

[blahdiblahblah]

OK,
so he has said he does not want to try counselling (as predicted), and wants to split up.
When I got upset he said that perhaps I should have showed him I loved him... I thought he knew.

We have recently relocated to another country where we both grew up (after living in London for many years), and he now says he does not want to be here, and will go to the UK where the law wont make him pay for our son - charming. He acts like I want to screw him for everything he has got, when he knows I am not that type of person, I would far rather TRY and make things amiable as we still have our son together...

So, why if this is the right thing (splitting) do I feel so devasated? Am in floods of tears, even though I the way he treats me when he is angry, he is still my friend and I love him

[bettyboo26]

Oh Blah, really hope your ok.
You are bound to be gutted, I just cannot understand why he would treat you so badly.
You are going to be fine though.
Has he left the house?

[blahdiblahblah]

No, he is here,
we have done a lot of talking
he admits what he did is wrong, but feels there is something wrong in the relationship that allows arguments to get to that point.
He is always so quick to criticise me, and in the context of all this I said something which he took completely out of context to mean that I think he is stupid, and that he has no talent. Anyone that knows me knows that I would never say anything hateful like that, but he is like a dog with a bone and says "at least now I know what you really think of me"...
FGS! He says the most hateful things to me and I have to deal with it, and I say one thing which he twists out of context and I am suddenly the villan.

Anyway, as it stands we are splitting, and I am sure it will all be good in the end, but I am hugely upset - I guess it is like grieving a loss.
He seems to think that his life will be so simple without us to hold him back, he can go and be free and single. The sad thing is, he will probably love the first few months of freedom, and then suddenly oneday realise what he has thrown away. And it will be too late. And it just makes me really sad because I love our little family unit, it means everything to me. But not enough to him, but maybe I should learn to accept that.
SOrry, this is a bit of a brain dump, but it is cathartic to put it in words.

[bettyboo26]

How are you this morning blah?
I can relate so much to what you are saying- many an argument was caused by Exh taking what I said out of context.
I know exactly what you mean when you say when its good, its great and when it's bad it's horrid- I spent years trying to hang on to the 'good' times even though the bad were just so BAD!
When we finally seperated, things had been 'good' for so long a couple of months and I think this made me realise that no matter how ok I ever thought things were, it would never last.
You will mourn for the family life you wanted, I still do now! This wasn't the plan!
So the plan changes- but I can honestly say, it is such a relief to no longer live in limbo. I control how I feel now and for the majority of the time, I feel good. I have strength that I never knew of.
You too will be fine. Focus on ds and yourself. Take good care of yourself and be kind to yourself.
The next few months will be tough but you will come out the other side. Things will get easier.