What are your thoughts on settling for a 'good enough' relationship? (Longish)

[Roscuro]

I followed Reality's legendary good-talking-to thread last week (here), about what we should aspire to, and not tolerate, relationship-wise. I agree that abuse is a dealbreaker. And I feel buoyed up and inspired at the thought of feeling "cherished, loved, respected and equal" in a relationship - but I'm also wondering how realistic this is.

Isn't there surely a normal distribution curve for relationships, with abuse at one end, and the utopian 'cherished' bit at the other, and a whole lot of average in between?

There's plenty of advice on here telling wistful, fantasising mums that the grass isn't greener; urging women to do all they can to make their rocky relationships work and keep their families intact.

Research indicates that the hike in divorce rates in the last 50 years or so has contributed to the hike in rates of depression; children whose parents have separated are (apparently) more likely than average to become depressed and have broken relationships themselves. If all averagely OK (as well as, rightly, abusive) relationships were to end, I imagine there wouldn't be many intact couples left - and wouldn't there be a whole lot more misery?

Recent media reports would have us believe that we are an especially 'selfish' generation of parents. Alarmist reporting aside, surely it is unacceptably selfish to end a tired relationship that's lost its sparkle but which is good enough?

I seem to keep reading in different places of the importance of getting over our aspirational selves, losing our perfectionism, and becoming more comfortable with the grey areas of life - the 'good enough'. Being more stoic.

So is it more realistic (and healthier) to aim/settle for all right, good enough relationships? I don't know the answer - I'm separated myself, and on the fence as to whether I can rebuild my relationship or not. I wonder about just getting on with it and settling for something that would be scarred and a bit lacking on the chemistry/respect/trust fronts but day-to-day OK, and stablising for DS - but Reality's 'cherished' ideal is mighty appealing.

If you got this far , what do you think?

[steamedtreaclesponge]

You bring up some really interesting points there - my take on the whole thing is that there is a big difference between having to work at a relationship, and "settling". I do think that a lot of people have unrealistic expectations about love; relationships do require work (although they shouldn't feel like work all the time!). I think a major problem is that people enter relationships for the wrong reasons or with completely incompatible people and then have nothing to hold them together once the hearts and flowers period ends and the relationship starts tarnishing. Everyone has different dealbreakers and for me kindness, reliability and good companionship are traits that I am not prepared to compromise on (makes me sound 80, doesn't it!).

Having said that, I don't think that Reality's post is unrealistic. I have just come out of a three year relationship that was all of those things. People seem to become more disillusioned as life goes on which is very sad. I think it is very important to go on believing that a relationship can be cherishing and all the rest, providing you accept that no relationship will ever be Disney-perfect.

Mind you, it's very easy to say all this on a theoretical basis. Real life is so much more complicated!

[whereismumhiding]

Totally agree. I think that as long as you can and do talk to each other, respect each other, and try to work on it and build a new relationship, then you are building something more solid and worth more than some crazy ideal of perfect love lives we're fed in the media.

Do you care about DP? Do they care about you? Lust and love, all comes after caring about someone's wellbeing.

[HolyGuacamole]

I don't believe in settling for 'good enough'. Relationships are not going to be on a high all the time. There will be times of average-ness, arguing and there will be times of great happiness and joy. It's how you deal with the average-ness and arguing, you talk to each other and work you ways to solve it.

I can only speak for myself and say that I had crappy relationships in the past and the person I am married to now is the man for me. I have no doubts, he doesn't feel average, in fact he feels like the best man in the whole wide world to me (yes, I know that's cheesy) and if it was anything less we would never have gotten married.

Who knows what the future holds for anyone, maybe some way down the line one of us will feel differently. I hope that doesn't happen.

Before we made big decisions to be with each other, we talked about how we feel about love, divorce, children, affairs, unhappiness in the relationship, getting old etc etc. We found that we agree on 99% of issues and I hope that will see us through. We still do talk about those things and I think that is important. On top of that, we really love each other and we face things together.

I guess we also realise we don't need to put each other thru hell by staying silent or being emotionally distant. If there is an issue, then no matter how hard it is, you need to talk it through.

I know a couple right now who are getting married 'because it is the next step', they spend 90% of the time nagging and moaning at each other, telling each other what they are and are not 'allowed' to do, what they are and are not 'allowed' to spend money on, it's embarrassing and IMO disgraceful. Neither of them have any breathing space.

That's not for me.

[SpringBlossom]

Gosh, loads to think about. I really liked the way you described your relatinship HolyGuacamole cos I think finally that's what I've found with my chap (getting married in April).

When I met him I didn't feel all hearts and flowers at all, in fact I thought he wasn't the one for me and spent several dates thinking about how I was going to get out of the next one. But, for some reason, this little voice kept telling me, 'He looks good for you somehow." So I stuck with it and six months later I was very much in love.

From him, for the first time in my life I've learnt about the happiness that comes from being a team, the comfort of being loved faults and all and most of all the joys of companionship and kindness. It isn't all excitment and passion but neither does it feel like it's settling for something. For the first time in my life it really feels right.

I don't know Roscuro; when kids are involved there's a lot to be said for going the extra 100 miles in trying to make things work. That said, you don't sound to me like you want to with this partner and I think if you aren't 100% into it then you are just storing up a whole lotta misery for the future. If I were you I might be tempted to try and make the separation as good as it possibly can be... and prepare for the time when you both have new partners.

[Roscuro]

Helpful and interesting responses - thanks.

Those of you who have found what sound like beautiful relationships, do you have children from previous relationships? How have they fared?

Reality, your other thread was compelling and thought-provoking. And not hearts and flowers; I realise you didn't mean that.

As for DP and I (he's DS's dad), we're both really digging our heals in when it comes to fully parting ways. DS is like a glue - we both love him to bits, don't want to hurt him (more), don't want to each see so much less of him (and him of us) and ferry him between us, fear the whole 'new partners' and 'new families' dynamics, etc. Yet we know that, because of what has happened in the last few years, if it weren't for DS, we probably wouldn't still be holding on. DP can be a lovely, gentle, caring sort but he has at times become manic, during which his handling of finances, behaviour with women and general manner have been beyond disrespectful towards me. As lovely as DP can be - and he is seeking help with his highs and lows - I feel very wary, and like I don't really know, or have confidence in, him anymore.

Ah, it's blardy tough - and I have to go. Will be back though!

Thanks again.

[Roscuro]

... digging our heels in, even.

[NotSoRampantRabbit]

This is all horribly relevant to me at the moment.

In fact was going to start a thread, but don't usually like to discuss my relationship here - it feels disloyal and I find it hard to articulate the nuances and dynamics.

DH and I are most definitely not happy at the moment. We are incapable of talking about the smallest thing without bickering/arguing/flouncing. We have no chemistry and no sex life at all. I find his lack of energy, motivation, joie de vivre utterly depressing and frustrating. I don't feel as though we have much of a future.

But is that just me feeling grass is greener? He is a loyal, honest, honorable man. He doesn't shout or swear or drink.

I feel terrible for even thinking about the possibility that there could be more. I know I should put the effort in but I feel as if we are so distant it is hard to see a way forward. I miss sex and giggling and taking some risks and feeling close.

I have to work at it don't I? But for how long? When is it ok to walk away.

Have huge lump in throat writing this down.

Very envious of those who are so happy.

[GoodGrrrlGoneBad]

oh notso i don't think expecting chemistry, a sex life and not arguing is thinking the grass is greener. They are perfectly normal things to have / expect. And no, you don't have to work at it, you BOTH have to try, otherwise there's no point.

[OrmIrian]

We have love, trust, respect in spades. He is and always would be my best and closest friend. But there isn't much of a 'spark' anymore. And although, yes I'd like that sometimes, I feel that we have 'good enough' relationship. And after 20 yrs, that does seem enough.

[NotSoRampantRabbit]

I don't know if DS is depressed. We've had a tough few years. I got severe PND after the birth of DS and it has taken me over 3 years, a lot of therapy and work to get better. When things were bad DH definitely struggled to cope with my sadness/anger. I have worked hard to feel better, but I guess he must be left with some bad feelings and has not pursued counselling or anything for himself.

He has never had a high sex drive. I thought I was ok with that, but actually, I feel unwanted much of the time, and I know that sex is important for bringing us closer together.

God it's all so complicated. And exhausting.

We are going to go away for a couple of nights soon. I would like to use that time to get a plan together for how we make things better.

To make things more difficult, I am six months pg. I need us to be a team when this baby comes. I fear for my mental health if we are like this come June.

I used to be a really happy, fun, content person (still am with my friends/DS) but something has changed in me and DH seems to bring out the worst in me.

Thanks for your thoughts....

[HolyGuacamole]

Well done springblossom

And Roscuro, I don't have kids yet. This is the first relationship where I have truly felt able to have kids and rely on the support of my other half. My ex's would have ran at the 1st sign of trouble.

I do however come from divorced parents. It all happened when I was a teenager and the feelings that surrounded it followed me well into my late 20's.

If I could change one thing, it would be that my mother had left my father when I was little. That way I might not have grown up seeing a version of relationships that to me were normal. It wasn't until I found my DH that I realised that the marriage my parents had was not normal. My father was a serial cheater, wore my mother down to the point here she barely existed and had no self worth. I spent my 20's in relationships where the men were exactly like my father - untruthful, cheaters, lack of respect for me etc etc.

If I'd seen a mother who walked away at that behaviour and who had told me things like "you don't have to accept this behaviour" then I might not have went through the shitty relationships, or at least I would have had the balls to walk away sooner.

By the way I am NOT blaming my mother AT ALL for my choice in men. But there was a huge part of me that thought men were just like that. I know for an absolute fact now, that me are not like that. Some men are but lots aren't.

So, in essence, I wish I had those lessons when I was little, rather then learning on my own in my 20's. When DH and I have children I want them to learn about relationships, to me it is as important as academic learning.

I think as long as you give your children the right lessons and in combination do whatever it is that makes you as a person happy, then you can't go much wrong. Parents can be apart and have emotionally fantastic children.

[SpringBlossom]

My DP has two children that live with us fulltime. His ex left him four years before, in pretty vile circumstances and that really left the children (particularly the older one who knew enough to understand her mother was leaving) in a bit of a mess. DP has fought over the last seven years to make sure stablilty is the watchword for his children and I know he feels guilty at the turmoil and upheaval that accompanied the end of his marriage.

I think eldest SD still has a lot of issues but I think these are less to do with the divorce (which to be honest was the only way he could get any stability - ex was coming and going weekly and monthly) and more to do with having a mad mother who isn't interested in her.

I do agree that marriages go through bad patches and having a strong bedrock that will carry you through the bad times is marvellous. But I also think there comes a point when putting the children first means making a decision, perhaps to split, but then putting the children first in every single decision about the split so that it's as good as it possibly can be for them. I think having fighting exs as parents must be a total nightmare.

Sorry, all a bit random. I don't seem to have the cohesive thought processes of other posters.

[SpringBlossom]

Nb I meant his ex left him four years before he met me and I was his first post-divorce GF.

[FannyWaglour]

Is this the right thread to add that all these families splitting up is contributing to overcrowding and a lack in decent housing?

I read somewhere that families breaking up is one of the biggest challenges in the uk in terms of housing. (not just council) The population is growing, more and more families breaking up and where they before would need ONE home, now they need two, and there is limited housing stock.

[HappyWoman]

I do think it is too easy to just walk away and be able to to 'forget' thier are responsibilities.

As a society we think it is ok to just move on and there is no stigma to that.

Of course there have always been bad relationships but in the past there were not the options and people had to just get on. There was a lot more support around too. Other woman would rally around and give the vital support when times got tough (a bit like MN does actually).

My marriage has had its fair share of problems - i thought very hard about not only what was right for me but what was right for my children. I would hate to think my h only stayed for the children but in some ways it has to be admired too.

I think instead of trying to achive the real highs we should settle a bit more for contented and value what we have now not what we could have.

[brettgirl2]

'Alarmist reporting aside, surely it is unacceptably selfish to end a tired relationship that's lost its sparkle but which is good enough?'

I think that this is a very simplistic statement. With no effort any relationship will become tired, however much 'potential' it may have to be otherwise. Sparkle needs to be kept by having fun together, laughing, having personal jokes. Too many couples start with passionate relationships then a few years down the line are nothing more than housemates. All they talk about are the bills, the house and unsurprisingly they become bored.

However, if the relationship is wrong then I don't think it is a good idea to stay 'for the sake of the kids'. I want to show my children that being in a relationship is a wonderful and that it is reasonable to expect this.

[solidgoldbrass]

Remember that in the 'good old days' couples stayed together because women had few other options; few jobs were available to them and what work they might find was (perfectly legally) paid less than what men would be paid for the same job. A lot of people blame the increase in relationship break ups on feminism having 'gone too far' ie women are realising that they don't have to put men first and service them in return for their keep.
While couplehood clearly suits some people, and good luck to them, it simply doesn't work for everyone, yet the relentless pressure on people to form couples makes for a lot of misery: being single is still supposed to be a mark of 'failure' when actually it's a great way to live.

[wildandfree]

I would just like to add that there is this idea that getting divorced solves all the problems - real or perceived - that existedc while one was married. In reality, many of the issues will continue long after the divorce - issues relating to dealing with relationships/insecurity/immaturity other issues. It is easy to "blame" problems on someone else, rather than facing them oneself.
That is not to say that everyone should stay in a marriage - but I think in general people are too quick to think that divorce is an answer to problems - in reality it is often the beginning of even more problems, UNLESS the couple involved have reached a mature place where they have agreed that they will be happier apart and have agreed amicable arrangments relating to children/money etc.

[newbrooms]

very thought-provoking thread. but when people talk about "working at" a marriage, what sort of 'work' works - is it only talking it through? what's the difference between being tolerant, making allowances, being a doormat?
as wildandfree says, how do we become those grown-ups, and make a contribution to raising our games, men and women alike.

I was just reflecting on this today, looking at the pay gap between men and women, SGB's very right comment about the "good old days"