Some advice needed about my PIL.

[FeelSickWIthWorry]

I have name changed as DH knows my normal posting name.

I will try to keep this short, but I have a lot of Q's and worries etc going around in my head so it may get long.

BACKGROUND
Met DH at college 14 years ago, we were friends for a couple of years before getting together.
When we met he was going through rough time at home with his mum and step dad.
His step dad beat his mum regularly and DH had moved out at the time we met. He talked to me about it and told me what had happened on the particular incident that he left home.

Step dad beating mum, DH in his room can not take any more so goes to break it up. Step dad beats DH, his mum does nothing. DH leaves and goes to stay with a very good friend.

DH tells me how his step dad has always beaten his mum for as long as he can remember.

I am obviously shocked as then I was very naive and honestly had never encountered this kind of family dynamic.

Fast forward 2 years, DH and I get together, I finally meet his mum (step dad was at work) His mum is lovely and we got on and still get on wonderfully.

Meet his step dad a couple of months later and take an instant dislike to him. I fully understand that I would have had a pre- disposition to dislike him after what I have heard from DH. I do however put my feelings aside and am polite to him, with general chit chat.

The things I disliked then and still do about DH's step dad can be listed
He is verbally, mentally, emotionally abusive to people who he feels are lower than him in the 'pecking order'.
MIL just takes it and I HATE that fact with a passion, but it is nothing to do with me so I just keep my distance.

FAST FORWARD 10 YEARS

Dh and I have been married for 5 years we have 15mo DD and an LO on the way.
I don't know if S-FIL is still physically abusive towards MIL but I know he is still verbally, mentally and emotionally abusive towards her, DH and myself.

I am angry that I have let him be so bad towards me for so long and it all came to a head last fathers day. I wont go into details but I no longer have any dealings with him.

I basically gave DH an ultimatum and said that I will no longer tolerate S-FIL and that if DH asks me to for his sake (as he has done numerous times in the past) Then I will be leaving.

Things are lovely now for me, I no longer feel worried and anxious as I don't go to their house and I take myself off when S-FIL comes here.

My problem being, MIL and DH have been dropping hints around me about MIL and S-FIL looking after DD and having her overnight. I just cannot do it. I cannot let DD or this LO when older go there without DH or I to be subjected to that man. MIL is scared of him, she didn't even stop S-FIL beating her own child back and blue, she does as she is told by S-FIL and cannot see that she is in an abusive relationship.

Even id S-FIL isn't being physically abusive anymore (which I doubt big time but cannot prove) he certainly is verbally and I do not want my DC exposed to that without DH being there. DH would remove them and say something to S-FIL, MIL wont.

I am happy for MIL to come here to sit with DD as I know S-FIl probably wont as it is not on his territory IYSWIM. But i am not happy at the thought of DD going to their house on her own, ever if I am quite truthful. DD hasn't even stayed out overnight at my mums yet.

If you were to meet S-FIL you would think he was the nicest bloke, but there is something you would not be able to quite put your finger on.

I just don't know what to do.

DH thinks that S-FIL is not beating MIL anymore and is totally taken in by this fake persona that S-FIL seems to have taken on.

I am afraid I am not willing to put my child/children in S-FILS care without DH or I being present. I don't trust him or MIL.

I truly accept that I am probably being a bit unreasonable but TBH I don't care I would rather be unreasonable and my child/children be safe.

[FeelSickWIthWorry]

Good lord that was longer than I expected it to be, thank you if you manage to read through it all.

[Hassled]

You are not being unreasonable in any way. We're talking about your children here - of course you can't leave there somewhere where you feel there is a risk they will come to harm, or witness anything horrible. Stick to your guns - you are absolutely in the right.

[Buda]

Just say no. Ad infinitum. And then again. Your DH should understand how you feel but even if he doesn't he should accept it.

You are not cutting contact. You are not stopping MIL seeing you or your DCs. You are saying no to a situation you don't feel comfortable about.

[FeelSickWIthWorry]

How do I do it though. I have put general 'feelers' out to DH about what I will allow (for want of a better word), but DH is in complete denial.

He wants DD to spend time with MIL obviously, and so do I but S-FIL will not have that without him 'over seeing' the proceedings. That is how he is.

I am scared as I can see this being the beginning of the end for DH and I. He is so wrapped up in this fake persona of S-FIL that he cannot see past it.

[Katisha]

Don't do it. Stand your ground. Let her come to you.

I know it's difficult to keep this up as I have some experience of a similar situation, but in the end nobody stands up to these people and they get their own way about everything.

Having said that, the SFIL will believe you are totally and utterly wrong because these abusive personalities have their own version of reality and all the normal people somehow end up accomodating them for the sake of a quiet life adn because they can't grasp the mindset of the person and start making allowances for them.

There is a book that people on here recommend about toxic parents and I believe there is one about toxic in-laws. here

[sowhatis]

I wouldnt let him near my children, let alone for any length of time (like an overnight stay). I think you are doing the right thing.

[Buda]

It sounds like your DH needs a reminder of what SFIL can be like.

[FeelSickWIthWorry]

Buda, that is right, I am not stopping contact with MIL or S-FIL, but it is on my terms WRT S-FIL now and he doesn't like that. He hardly ever comes here now and we don't drive so it is very rare that we ever go to their house.

MIL asked me just before Xmas if S-FIL was welcome here as she has noticed that I make myself scarce when he does come. I told her yes he is welcome, but I wont be here when he comes due to the last incident.

[FeelSickWIthWorry]

It has had me in tears this morning, as MIL was here yesterday and was saying about when DD is older that she can go and stay. My whole body was screaming NO, but I just went to put the kettle on and not show my face.

Katisha, that is what MIL and DH do, always say don't tell S-FIl this that or the other as it will upset him. They are anything for a quiet life, as I suppose am I, but not ever when it some to the safety of my DD and this LO.

I am so worried now, how do I broach it with DH? DO I broach it with DH or just keep saying no.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

You've written about them before haven't you?.

Would stand your ground re this matter, your DD is far too important to be left overnight with these people particularly where there has been violence within their relationship. I don't think you are being at all unreasonable. Violence as well does not only have to be physical in nature. Its a great pity that your MIL never found it within herself to leave the brute of her H.

Your DH is in denial because the truth of the situation is far too painful for him to contemplate. He is likely also angry with his Mum for not leaving this man. She has put her second husband, your Step FIL, before her own son. She has ultimately chosen to stay with this man despite being beaten up.

[Stayingsunnygirl]

I think that you are doing exactly the right thing, FeelSickWithWorry. If your step-FIL had really changed, then I think he'd have to acknowledge what he's done to your MIL and your dh, and he'd have apologised.

You've got to put your children's safety first, and your dh should understand this - after all, it's not like you are just going on instinct - you've got jolly good evidence that he's a dangerous man.

I realise that this is a very tough situation for you, both emotionally and practically, and I wish you all the best.

[FeelSickWIthWorry]

Do you know what I feel quite relived to get it out and to have other people understand me and see that I am not being unreasonable.

[Katisha]

Feelsick - do try that book - I have read people on here speak very highly of that author.

[Jux]

No no no no no. Just keep saying it.

[Buda]

If I were you I would just sit down calmly with your DH and tell him exactly how you feel.

Why does your DH now think SFIL is ok even with recent incidents?

[FeelSickWIthWorry]

The situation is hard for me, but I don't care about me I only care about the safety of my DD and this LO. I know DH does also, but like Atilla say's DH is in denial over the fact that his mum basically chose S-FIL over her son.

It wasn't until I became a mum myself that I fully saw the situation/relationship for what it was. I cannot understand how any mother could ever put her husband before her children EVER.

My mum and dad have such a 'normal' relationship and I know that my mum would NEVER tolerate it and my dad would NEVER do it. But DH had such a different upbringing that to him this is kind of normal.

I still feel sick to my stomach.
I just don't know how to broach it with DH or if I should at all until I can get away with saying no any longer.

[Buda]

You have to broach it if it is worrying you so much.

[CarGirl]

Really I'm surprised you let your S-FIL anywhere your children at all. YANBU I would not let my children near him without someone being present that would stick up for them and bring them home if necessary.

Perhaps you should just tell your DH that you will never let your dc be left with S-FIL but you are more than happy for MIL to come and stay with the dc here provied S-FIL is guaranteed not to turn up. You may have a blazing row but that will happen eventually anyway one day (unless S-FIL dies in the near future)

[InSearchOfLostKeys]

God no, FSWW, don't doubt yourself at all. Your instincts are correct so stick to your guns!

[wannaBe]

I wouldn't let him near my children, and they would be staying under the same roof as him over my dead body.

But tbh I wouldn't pussy-foot around the subject with dh either. Maybe mil as it's harder to be quite as open with extended family, but with dh i would be totally blunt:

"remember why you left home? Remember what he used to do to you and your mother? Well if you let our children be alone with him you have no guarantees that he won't do the same to them, and they're only little, not old enough to know or defend themselves. There is no way I am even going to risk subjecting my children to that, so it will not happen, ever."

And given he's your dh's stepdad you can, IMO, be as open as you like, it's not as if this is a blood relative that makes the situation harder.

Tbh I would (but then im a hard cow who is not afraid to speak my mind ) say to mil that, "well you might let him beat you up but I will not let him do that to my children, so while you are with him my childre will never stay alone at your house. but you are welcome to come and stay over here, alone, any time you like."

[FeelSickWIthWorry]

Buda, DH is a very forgiving person. I suppose in a way he has had to be. I on the other hand am not. I will take crap off people for a while then I snap, that is it for me.

With DH it is out of sight out of mind almost.

I came to a lot of my realization with regards to S-FIl when I did a psychology course and things started to 'fit in to place for me' DH has yet to come to that realization.

[sobanoodle]

Why does a 15 mo need to stay overnight away from home anyway ?

Your mil can come to you as others have said, see you and the child/ren, do bath time stories etc., whatever she wants with your agreement, presumably babysit too.

Be firm and be frank; however unpleasant the fallout, it's your call. You are in control here.

[FeelSickWIthWorry]

sobanoodle, that is true, but isn't DH also in control as DD's father?

I honestly don't know what the consensus is when it comes to the parents of a child. Does one parent trump the other, I always thought it was 50/50.

[FeelSickWIthWorry]

DD doesn't need to stay away anywhere, especially not at 15mo, and TBH I am not ready for it yet. Yes I know that is more about me than anything but I am just being truthful.

I think a lot of people on DH's side of the family think I am overprotective of DD, I am protective of her, but do you know what I love being with her and miss her terribly when she is not with me. a lot of DH's side leave their DC with their GP's most of the time. I don't want to do that. My family (cousins etc) have come right out and said to me that I am wrong for not taking my mum up on her constant offers of babysitting. But I love being with DD and really do enjoy the very occasional nights out that DH and I have when mum babysits.

[2rebecca]

I'm generally pro kids seeing grandparents but to me this is a definite no. I would probably have no problem telling the inlaws why I wasn't happy for the kids to stay there. I would probably say something like "oh you want my kids to stay with you so X can beat them the way he used to hit you and my husband? I don't think so". FILs abuse is unreasonable and has never been acknowledged. Domestic violence isn't an issue to pussyfut around and sweep under the table.
Lots of kids don't stay overnight with grandparents alone due to the distances involved. I see no advantage in them staying overnight and possible disadvantages. FIL may have mellowed with age but as the subject isn't discussed you don't know that.