Ladies who are on H&W's thread - can I ask some advice?

[AnnVan]

This is actually really hard for me to type up. So bear with me please.
When I was 16 I became involved with a man a lot older than me. At the time I viewed this as a relationship. I wander if some of you ladies would mind talking through it with me, to see if it actually counts as abuse. Does the fact that I was over the legal age of consent mean that it wasn't? It's something I've carried with me since then, as I feel I was a bit of an idiot to get taken in by this man, and because it caused such strife in my family.
Maybe you could talk me through features of this kind of thing?

[poshwellies]

Hi Ann,

I have been something similar-I was 17 and the man in question was 34,I don't think I was 'sexually' abused,but I was messed up and used to think very little of myself (due to earlier childhood abuse).

But when I look about on it now,it makes me feel quite uneasy about the whole 'relationship'

[goodnightmoon]

i'm sure there are some accepted features of what constitutes abuse that someone will be along to describe. does it matter what you call it though? clearly you are uncomfortable/unhappy about what happened.

or are you trying to assign all the blame to the man?

(just a question, don't mean to sound aggressive.)

[Nabster]

when i was 19 i was with someone who was 34 and it was a regular relationship. untilo he hit me, anyway.

will listen.

[AnnVan]

Well. Not as such (about assigning blame, that is) But I've since become aware that he does have a taste for teenage girls.
Also several people suspect that he may have abused his niece.
He was 50 btw, and a friend of the family. And it was like being brainwashed.
(I was a very naive 16, having been brought up in a VERY religious family by quite controlling parents)It was my first sexual relationship. My first relationship full stop.

[AnnVan]

I think it's what was being said about grooming that got to me. I knew this man from when I was 14. And a lot of how he treated me really sucked me in to believing him, so that when the relationship became sexual, I believed his assurance that we weren't doing anything wrong, and meekly accepted that we had to keep it secret. I can't even remember what his reasons for secrecy were now.

[SnowlightMcKenzie]

AnnVan: I don't know what happened but 16 year olds ARE idiots, - weel not exactly, but young, inexperienced and fairly innocent. It is wrong for someone to exploit that and they are in the wrong if they do so, - not you for being young.

[goodnightmoon]

sorry you went through this. in the kindest light, it is hard to justify a relationship between a 16 year old girl and 50 year old man. maybe in extraordinary circumstances it could be benign, but he certainly does sound like a predator.

[AnnVan]

dittany I feel embarrassed really. I cringe. I try not to think about it really, but this really brought it all back up.
I do think this guy is a predator. I think most of my anger is with my dad, for acting as if I was sleeping around, or doing it to hurt him. We've never talked about it openly. He's always assumed that it went on, and I've never confirmed or denied.

[countingto10]

Similar thing happened to me Annvan. I was 16, he was 20+ years older. Looking back I was definitely groomed. I have tried to bury all memories of it in a black hole in my brain. I don't think about it if I can help it - it did happen 20 years ago.

[saultanpepper]

I realise that a) I'm not a lady and b) I'm persona non grata at the moment and therefore may not be welcome here, so if you want me to feck off, say so; but a few thoughts:

Age difference isn't in and of itself a problem - my Dad, rest his soul, was 18 years older than my Mum; they met when she was 25 and he was 43. No-one batted so much as an eyelid (so I'm told - I came along a couple of years later).

Personally I think it's more a case of the relative ages. Sure, at 16, the age of consent has been reached; but a 16 year old is still technically, at least in the eyes of the law, a child. For someone much older than, say, 20, to be involved with a 16 year old would give me considerable pause. That said, I don't think there's a definitive answer to the age difference issue. The whole age thing in the UK needs sorting - for example the law says that people aged 16 can marry and have sex, which presumably means that society thinks they're ready to bring up children and make decisions for their child's future; but those same 16 year olds aren't deemed to know their own minds sufficiently to be allowed to vote or buy their wedding guests a celebratory glass of Champagne.

Ann, from a purely legal viewpoint (and I'm not a lawyer) I don't think what happened to you could be classed as sexual abuse if a) you were over 16 when the relationship became sexual and b) you consented. From a moral viewpoint, it's a totally different story - if nothing else your trust was abused, as someone three times your age should not have taken advantage of a vulnerable young person for what was presumably his own gratification.

[LoveaDAISYcal]

no experience annvan, but just wanted to send some virtual {{{{{hugs}}}}}. It sounds to me that he had perhaps waited until you were just over the age of consent before making his move so that there wouldn't be any comeback if the "secret" got out.

Would talking things through with a counsellor help you come to terms with it?

[AnnVan]

Dittany my dad still blames me. 8 years after the event, he still threw it in my face. He told his other friends about it, and two of them later went on to make moves on me.(one of whom I've known since I was 5) It's extremely embarrassin to know that such intimate details were told to other people.
I think the same - 'what on earth?' but also 'how could I have been taken in by him?'

[poshwellies]

Infact your father's behaviour makes me feel uneasy ann-why discuss your daughter's intimate relationships with his friends and then happen to make moves on you aswell?

[poshwellies]

they

[AMumInScotland]

AnnVan - I think it would definitely be a good idea for you to talk through what happened, and your father's reaction, with a counsellor. His reaction, and the fact that he had a number of friends who all thought it was fine to make a move on a 16 year old girl, are issues which I think could do with some proper working-through, with someone trained to help you with it.

As others have said, the fact that you were 16 and consented means that legally it wouldn't be "abuse", but that doesn't mean that it was Ok for him to do that.

It also isn't ok for your father to treat you as "dirty" when one of his friends, who he had allowed to spend time with you, had "seduced" you. He should have been angry at the friend, not you. And he certainly shouldn't have mentioned it to his other "friends" in terms which made it sound like you were now "available".

[AnnVan]

poshwellies my dad thinks everything revolves around him. I don't think he ever bothered listening to me (which only made me trust this man even more as he listened to me and it wasn't much work for him to say he loved me more than my dad did) It probably never occurred to him that he shouldn't be telling my business to other pople.

[nkf]

I think grown women can be sexually abused by men but we don't extend the protection of the law to them in quite the same way. That doesn't mean that what happened to you was okay though.

[AnnVan]

I don't think it was abuse either really. But I do think I was taken advantage of. I think daisy is right that he waited till I was legal.

[AnnVan]

One them is a minister in the church too - and yes he is very creepy. I haven't seen him in years.
Got to go off to MIL's.

[solidgoldbullet4myvalentine]

This does sound a bit unhealthy and unpleasant. I think perhaps the key factor is that you say you felt uneasy about it and still do: sometimes a teenager who is technically over the age of consent has a relationship with an older person but thinks of it, even years later, as a positive, pleasurable experience. Though this is usually only the case when the older partner was not in any kind of position of trust or authority over the younger one when they first met.

[AnnVan]

The man was a leadership figure in my church solidgold, so yes In a position of trust.