Throwing in the proverbial

[ReallyMuddled]

It's hard to put this in writing, though I think about it constantly.

I've been with my partner for 10 years (since 18) and he is my first and only love. We were planning to start a family but I miscarried (at 4 weeks) in June, hence my MN membership.

Throughout our relationship I've swung from feeling totally sure to deeply doubtful. Now I'm really at crunch point and I'm asking myself whether I should leave.

In a highly simplified nutshell, here are the two sides, if you like.

On the one hand:
He is very caring and affectionate, most of the time. Physically and emotionally, we have always been loving.
He looks after me and I can rely on him.
We want the same things from life.
We are "in tune" domestically- it doesn't sound very romantic, but if you've been in a long term relationship, you know it's important (we both enjoy creating and maintaining a nice home, never argue about money etc)
He's very supportive of me in terms of my career and believes in me and my talents.
Things are good in the bedroom and he's an attractive man
We have a lovely and comfortable life- a good social life, we do interesting things, love trying new restaurants etc.
He's frequently energetic, excited about life and fun to be around.
Our political/moral ideas and values are largely well-matched- very important to me.
He's trustworthy and faithful, as am I.
He adores me and believes me to be wonderful/sexy etc- more than I really am.
We have supported each other through some horribly tough experiences.
I love him and we know each other completely.

BUT:
He can be bossy and particular about the way things are done, which manifests itself in being critical at times.
He can be negative and sullen when he's in a bad mood(not particularly towards me, but towards the world in general)
Socially he is not at ease like I am- sometimes his sullen behaviour occurs when we are with friends- this includes being a bit scathing with me in public sometimes- which I find mortifying. We share friends, but he can be socially awkward.
I can think of people with whom I "get along" better- not in a romantic way but in terms of sense of humour etc. Is there someone out there with whom I would "just click", "just know" etc? (I'm a cautious over-thinker so have never been able to "get" this- but I gather it just happens...)

I spoke to a (male) friend who said he is just "a man", re the moodiness etc. But I don't see this behaviour in my friend's partners. Everything seems so perfect in their relationships.

I don't feel as though the miscarriage has brought about these strong feelings- though I can't understand how I can have been so sure of our relationship just a few months ago that I was ready to have children with him, and now I'm on the verge- literally on the verge- of ending it, though the thought is terrifying.

I have to confess that the fact that I am 29 is clouding things slightly for me. I definitely want children and I worry that if I ended it, I wouldn't find another man to share this with before it was too late.

The problem is, I don't know what a relationship with anyone else would be like, as I've only known this one. Are doubts part and parcel of a LTR, or should I feel totally sure?

I know I should follow my heart, but my heart does not truly know what it wants. And I don't know what advice I'm looking for. I just can't talk to anyone in real life about this and I'm so confused.

[ditzzy]

Can I ask how he dealt with your m/c? Was he supportive? Did he undertsand (or try to understand) what it meant to you?

Are you actively TTC again now?

Doubts are definitely part and parcel. The fact that you are looking into your relationship so closely before starting a family shows how responsibly you take it all. Its a good thing!

[ReallyMuddled]

Thanks so much Ditzzy- your words are comforting.

He was supportive re the miscarriage throughout, though for the first couple of days he didn't "get it"- the impact of it took a wee while to sink in. we didn't know I was pg until I miscarried (thanks a lot, crazy post-pill body), and at first he was mostly relieved that we could conceive. Then he was sad. Now it doesn't seem like either of us is particularly traumatised by the mc- we're quite philosophical about it really.

I have now called a halt to the TTC process (having been very preoccupied with it until September- even jotting down dates and CM and all that stuff), though I'm not sure he quite gets this. He's still very keen on the idea of being a parent. I just can't make that huge commitment while I feel so unsteady. I don't want my kids to go through a parental break up like I did, and I don't want to spend a pregnancy feeling sick not just with morning sickness but with uncertainty.

I have explained to him that I need some time on the whole baby thing, that I am having doubts about how we would be as parents, and parenting together (eg would he be picky about the way our kids do things? Would they see their dad being critical of their mum? This doesn't happen often but it does happen). He was frustrated, and said that of course we wouldn't always get everything right or agree on everything, but think of the happiness we could give a child, think of their first steps, their birthday parties, etc, rather than the negatives. He asked me what did I want to do about it? Wait for ever? Dump him and look for someone else who would be perfect? Impossible questions.
Then he brushed that conversation under the carpet and it's as if we never had it. And we haven't discussed ttc at all since then- about 3 weeks ago (this is after many months of laughing together as we put in "overtime" during my ovulation period).

I haven't told him I am unsure about him.
The worst thing is, I even took the morning after pill without telling him, during last month's fertile time.

[ReallyMuddled]

Also, it may be worth noting that he thinks I have an idea of perfection, which neither he or our relationship can meet. He thinks I look at him through the prism of what a perfect person/boyfriend should be. I think my expectations are realistic.

So ironically, we both see each other as critical at times. The difference is, I criticise the way he is- his attitude and mood sometimes; he criticises the things I do- the way I lose things/break things/forget to do things etc.

I of course think my criticisms are justified! He knows his aren't and tries not to do it, but doesn't always succeed.

Another example of our Mars/Venus set-up is that we can both be dark and silent. But my dark moods are withdrawn and sad; his are brooding and cross. I shrug and sulk; he snaps and grumbles. I keep what's bothering me inside; he rants. I think his type of darkness is more difficult to cope with and... you guessed it... vice versa.

Do we sound like a nightmare?

[ditzzy]

I should have thought about name changing before answering the first time!!

You are not alone. I joined MN last year when TTC. I didn't have m/c, but was sure I was pg at one point (was late and had loads of symptoms) but tested negative. When DH didn't care in quite the way I wanted him to I threw an immediate halt on TTC. It made me question everything.

We had all the conversations you've listed above about what sort of parents we'd be etc. For me it was a complete shock - I had spent so long waiting so patiently to TTC until it was 'right', I was timing everything and generally obsessing, and then one day something clicked in my head, and I didn't want to TTC at all. It came down to three options: a) I didn't want a baby, b) I didn't want a baby YET, c) I didn't want a baby WITH HIM.

I still don't know the answer! (I should have warned you I wouldn't actually help as such). I was 29 at the time too - now 30, I always wanted kids before hitting 30, but its not sooo important these days, I reckon I can dither for another 5 years if I want, that would even give me time to find a new man if I still chose option c...

[JustKeepSwimming]

Poor you, you do sound muddled

Have these doubts/concerns only come up since the m/c?
Not that it makes them less valid, may even make them more so. Is it trying to picture yourself in a serious (ie with children) relationship rather than the 'fun' one of going out, making a home together that makes you doubt things?

I have never doubted that i should be with my DH but i did worry about having children - would we be good parents, would i cope with most of the childcare/being a sahm, etc.
these are perfectly normal i would say, having a child is a big deal and it does bring huge responsibilities.

Think the speaking to you (esp in public when we are normally on our 'best' behaviour) in such a negative way has to be addressed, it can't continue. And no, my dh isn't moody like you describe so not just a 'man' thing.

I am prob more like him really; bossy, socially awkward with new people/big groups, pessimist, etc.
but i'm not 'nasty' to dh - i hope he agrees with me!

Not sure i'm helping, sorry!
Wishing you all the best sorting it out, taking the MAP without him knowing & him thinking you are ttcing is not great

[ditzzy]

I was too busy typing to spot your latest post! You don't sound like a nightmare - you sound quite well suited!! Trust me, we both shrug and sulk, so nothing ever gets solved.

I have to say as well, from your first post, it sounds ilke you really have a lot going for you as a couple. You say you critise him, but look how much longer your positives ilst is than the negatives

[Blinglovin]

Look at two seperate statements you've just made:

"But I don't see this behaviour in my friend's partners. Everything seems so perfect in their relationships."

"Also, it may be worth noting that he thinks I have an idea of perfection, which neither he or our relationship can meet. He thinks I look at him through the prism of what a perfect person/boyfriend should be. I think my expectations are realistic. "



I think doubts are normal. Doubts about all kinds of things. I look at DP sometimes and think, "is this it? Is he really the one? Shouldn't it be... 'more'?" But the truth is, no, it shouldn't. He makes me happy. I love being with him. We get on well. I am attracted to him. We talk. He's supportive etc.

From what you're saying here, I think your DH might be right that you have expectations that are set too high. Real life isn't a movie or a book and people aren't perfect. I challenge anyone on MN, no matter how good her relationship is, to say that there is nothing that irritates her about her DP or that makes her think sometimes, "why? Why? Why?".

You say that you criticising him about who he is, is better than him criticising what you do? Why? My DP loses things all the time and it drives me insane because I think it shows a lack of care and a lack of attention. But it's not a reason to stop loving him.

I think you should speak to him about how you're feeling nervous and scared. But don't lay all this on him. And try to remember why you love him - the reasons are much longer than the things you don't like. But ask yourself - are you happy? Are you happy to see him when you come home from work?

[ReallyMuddled]

Oh my god Ditzzy- are you me? Because we think the exact same thoughts. What a blessed relief to know I'm not alone.
Ever since I started to m/c in June, right up until the present day, I've felt like a total anomoly/freak in terms of everything I've felt and thought.

Wise words JKS. There are def things we need to address in our relationship, if it is to continue. And the MAP incident is shocking, when I see it written down.
In terms of the "getting serious" thing... well, we have been through some very serious stuff together (I'm talking newsworthy tragedy) so I don't think, in this case, that this is an issue.

In answer to your question, yes, I have had these feelings before, not just since the m/c. If I'm being honest, I feel this way about once a year, to varying degrees. Sometimes for like a week, sometimes for longer. What's that all about?

[ReallyMuddled]

Blinglovin, we x-posted.
Thanks to you too for your excellent input. This is all, truly, a godsend.
I've kept it bottled up for weeks.

[ditzzy]

Do you think the newsworthy tragedies in the past might actually be making it worse? You've been through everything together already, and now you're trying to do something serious and really important but really ordinary. What if you don't live up to expectations? When you're just facing something other people manage all the time? Just a thought....

Not being alone is great isn't it!

It's so hard to talk to all the other people out there though, to explain this really is a complete flip in thought-chain that you'd really never anticipated. Not just a 5 second knee-jerk reaction.

[JustKeepSwimming]

Well, you know you can stick it out through serious things which is good.
You know you have felt this way before and come through it which is good.
How have you felt 'after' feeling like this before?
Did anything happen to 'snap' you out of it?

It might just be one of those things if you wonder every year - is it near your birthday? Maybe just your brain appraising your life, where you are compared to where you thought you would IYKWIM?

30 is a funny age, i had all these plans and thoughts for the kind of person i would be when i turned 30, and so much of that hadn't happened. i felt the same as i felt when i was 21 and making all those plans but 9 years had passed and nothing had really changed. It took some getting used to the idea that i was this 30 year old and my life was ok really, even if not what i had hoped for myself.
(that makes me sound depressed and i'm not, just think my younger self was unrealistic, esp where my 'career' (haha) was concerned).

sometimes it helps just to talk around the subject with non-judgemental types so keep talking on here

[ditzzy]

ReallyMuddled - I hope you don't mind if I steal all the advice on here for me too!

[ReallyMuddled]

JKS- Yes indeed, I think the big 3-0 (can't believe I just used that irritating expression!) is probably an issue. I wonder where my 20s have gone, and why we settled down so very very young. I've only slept with one person, I'm like some kind of Victorian throwback!

After I have had one of my "phases", I usually feel rather loved-up and relieved that I didn't throw it all away. And yes it is always near my birthday.

Ditzzy- you know, I think you may be right. We made it/are still making it through a storm of loss and sadness, and have faced things that would have ended many relationships. And now life has reached a "new normal" and we can cope with the day-to-day, and I suddenly feel like a person who can make choices in her life instead of just getting through it. And this makes me wonder if there is something more wonderful out there.

The ridiculous thing is that people think WE have a "perfect relationship" (I guess it just doesn't exist huh?), and yes, I confess that if we were less than magnificent when it came to the very ordinary task of raising a baby, I'd feel like the world had turned upside down. But despite everything we've been through, I do fear that this ordinary thing might somehow bring out our true, incompatible, colours.

By the way, as you have gathered, our relationship is absolutely not perfect.
Wow, I do use that word a lot don't I? But I feel that other people have imperfections in their relationships that are more trivial than those in mine, somehow.

[ReallyMuddled]

I'd just like to point out that I am not such a spoiled brat as I sound!
And yes, feel free to steal any and all advice given here!

[Blinglovin]

Nah - I think your relationship mostly sounds pretty good! It's always easy to think yours is worse than everyone else's.

[2point4kids]

I read your OP and it strikes me massively that all the points in your 'for' list at the top are big big points and are the kind of things that matter a great deal to most people.
The 'against' list is a lot shorter and is full of things that I would class as a lot more trivial than the previous points.

Based on that alone I'd say that you and your DH were pretty well suited and that you are going through a period of doubt perhaps thrown up by something going on in your life/head that you need to resolve?

Further on you've said that perhaps your expectations could be un-realistic and I think I'd probably agree with that.

It sounds to me like you are very confused here about a lot of things.
Maybe it would help if you could push your thoughts about your DH to one side for a bit and concentrate on what you want out of life. Where do you want to be in a few years time? Do you want children or are you unsure of that now? Are you happy at work? With where you live? Your family? With how you have recovered emotionally from the tragedies you have experienced?
Once you've kind of got an idea about where you want to be and what you want to achieve/work towards, then slot your DH back in the picture and see if he fits in with your ideas and dreams!

[ReallyMuddled]

2point4kids, that is very good advice.
Ditzzy are you paying attention too?

I don't want to make any rash decisions, but equally don't want to continue, unquestioning, down the road we're on.

I think I should at least have a proper chat with him about postponing ttc. This might sound mad, but I almost feel as though the mc was like a "false start" which gave me the chance to think "hang on, is this really right?". After all, if it hadn't happened, I'd be well pregnant by now, and probably very excited and happy. But 29 is relatively young isn't it? We can wait for a little bit while I sort my head out.

But I shouldn't tell him about the morning after pill incident, right? That would seem foolish.

Something needs to happen soon though. He looks broken, he can't work out what is wrong with me. Last night he was so relieved when I snuggled up to him in bed. And it broke my heart.

[TheGreatScootini]

I have these thoughts about my DH often (and we have two lovely dd's already)Sometimes we get on fantastically.Other times we really dont and I wonder if we would both be better off if we were apart.

I have come to the conclusion that these things are cyclical.There are good patches and bad patches in every relationship.Plus areas that are better and worse in every relationship iyswim..

I would never end my marriage (def not now we have the girls, but prob not even before that-not that I think there is anything wrong with divorce or anything, I just dont have it in me)Have just learnt to roll with the punches in the bad times and enjoy the good times.

No relationship is great all the time..I think if you waited for the 'perfect' relationship you might not ever find it and it would be a shame when so much of what you have said about your current relationship sounds so postive.

If him being a wee bit antisocial is an issue, have you thought about going out on your own, nad having more seperate social lives?Sometimes having this outlet helps I find..(we have shared friends plus friends that are only ours)

29 is young (I am 29 next so it ruddy well is and thats the end of it!)and no I wouldnt tell him re the Morning after pill..s'another can of worms that doenst need to be opened..

[TheGreatScootini]

Also I had a MC with our first baby.I suffered with quite bad depression afterwards for almost a year, without even realising it.I started to really dislike my DH as he jsut couldnt understand me and how I felt.
It was a very lonely time for me and it made me question everything really.Could this be whats going on for you?

[ReallyMuddled]

Perhaps the miscarriage has affected me more than I'd like to admit, TheGreatScootini. I think maybe I am depressed (have been depressed before and can feel some familiar things happening).

Why doesn't anyone talk about miscarriage? All people say is "it's so common"- so I believed I could get through it unscathed.

This morning I was tearful. He was desperate to know what was wrong and all I could say was "I'm so tired". He knows me too well to be fobbed off, and the fact that he's so concerned about me is just making it worse.

[TheGreatScootini]

You cant get through it unscathed..You do sound like you are suffering a bit to me..it can last for ages and catch you unawares..I was once in a restaurant with all my family about 3 months after my mc when I thought I was doing fine and it suddenly all became too much and I ended up sobbing in the toilet..I thought I was going mad.But in fact I was still very very depressed over what had happened and wasnt coping very well, I was just burying it all..

DH and I had vicious rows around that time too..really dreadful..Some of it was because I was very affected by what had happened and coudnt think straight.Some of it was because he was, although he didnt recognise how it had affected him in the slightest till way afterwards..he was too busy being stoic at the time and then preferred not to talk about it afterwards.

[confuseddd]

What does your heart say? You have been very analytical in your posts but haven't said much about your feelings. In your heart, have you decided to leave? Playing devil's advocate here, but I recognise the scenario as I nearly sleepwalked into a marriage at age 29. I decided to leave and am now married to a man who I have a real, not perfect relationship with and we've got a ds now. Don't be afraid to leave if that's the right thing to do - it will cause upset but perhaps not as much as you'd think.

[ReallyMuddled]

Good point Confuseddd.

Some of the time (when he is displaying behaviours I find difficult or we are bickering) I feel, in my heart, like I definitely want to end the relationship. The rest of the time I feel like I want to stay.

These past few weeks (since September) I feel that I want to leave for more of the time than I want to stay. I know for a fact that this will pass, but I also know that these feelings will come back periodically, though probably to a lesser extent. I wonder whether I can bring a child into this relationship knowing that this is the case. Can I live with integrity knowing before we have a child that its parents might not always be together? Shouldn't I be in a relationship in which I never feel that I want to leave? Do such relationships exist?

I'm the child of a divorce and I don't want to put my children through that.

I am (as has been noted) a very analytical person. I've thought deeply about everything that I've ever done or felt, ever since I was tiny. My dad calls me an old soul. I call myself an eeyore. So I've never related to the "you just know" line. I've never "just known" about anything in my life- relationships, work, friends... apart from my family, whom I love in a very uncomplicated way. Maybe there's a partner out there who I could love in the same way, with whom I'd "just know"?

[Playingthe9monthwait]

DH and I have also been together 10 years, I was 16 when we got together he was my first boyfriend, so I have never known what it is like to be with someone else nor has DH. I have never regretted not "experiencing" more of the world (i.e having other partners) but even that still doesn't stop me very occassionally wondering what it might be like to be with someone else or if I somehow missed out. I always come to the conclusion that I wouldn't have changed a thing. I am with a lovely man who despite his faults (and believe me I could write a list on them too and I am sure he could do the same on me) is perfect for me, not perfect as a person, but right for me, for how I want to live my life and where I see "us" in the future. However, life changing moments (marriage, children, mc, ill health etc) do make you re-evaluate your life and of course your relationship even if normally you know you are right for each other.

I am currently pg with our first child and we are both delighted, my DH is being wonderful and we are both very excited. That doesnt stop the whole thing being very scary and suddenly seem like a huge burden and responsibilty. I have already "committed to a life sentence" with DH as we are married so in theory children is the next logical step. Yet starting a family does feel even more of a responsibilty, its a huge life changing event and despite being very happy I am still very aware of how life changing this will be for both of us and our relationship.

I suppose what I am trying to say in a very long winded way is 2 basic things. Firstly, if your DP/DH is your first ever partner I think a little part of you will always wonder about the unknown. Secondly, having children in itself changes the very nature of who you think you are and what you want out of a relationship and thats without the heartache of a mc and possible depression in the mix. Questioning your relationship and what you want out of life is a normal part of the process.

I'm not saying you should stay or that this relationship is right for you, only you can make that call, although from your posts it sounds as if for the most part you have a very good relationship. I do think, however, that you need to know that it is ok to be having all these doubts and that possibly you still need time to heal emotionally after your recent mc. Be kind to yourself, give yourself the time and space to heal, talk to your DP about how you are feeling, maybe talk to your gp about your possible depression. Then if you still feel the same you can always end the relationship but don't rush into a decision you may regret.

[HuwEdwards]

Reallymuddled, I've read all this thread and my own opinion is that you will always thing big and deep about stuff, that's how you're made. I don't think you would be any less deep about any relationship, it would be completely against the grain.

I am v.shallow myself but I have a friend like you and much as we love eachother, we drive eachother insane as I take stuff on quite blithely whereas she agonises. Polar opposites but we get on v.well!

She, my friend will never be any different, neither will I and neither I think will you.

You're having doubts, it's natural, as someone else says these things are often cyclical, we all have good and not-so-good times, but again as someone else mentioned your positives for your DH in number and in 'weight' far outweigh the negatives.

good luck