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Relationships

I don't know what to do and would value your comments please

40 replies

anorak · 04/10/2006 10:55

My best friend has always been very opinionated and forceful, but she's also been extremely helpful, generous, kind and loyal. She often takes umbrage at things other people say and do and reacts very extremely. I've known her to engage in very long and vindictive disputes with her neighbours, for example. But I've always turned a blind eye to her domineering ways because she never directed it at me.

Last weekend she and her husband came over and she was very abrasive. We were sitting in the back garden and I warned her in a low voice that my friend and neighbour at the back of me had died and that her funeral had been the day before. I was hoping she wouldn't talk loudly and inappropriately and upset my newly widowed neighbour.

As the evening progressed she said several quite provocative things, suggesting that my widowed neighbour was taking the piss because he had been coming round to me for his dinner a few times (at my request) and insulting my daughters who have recently caused us a lot of heartache.

Things came to a head when I pointed out that DD2 is still a child (she's just 14) and I therefore felt that while she is answerable for some of the things she has done I wanted to be understanding and try and smooth things over with her. BF insisted DD is not a child, and I argued this point, calmly and politely.

She screamed abuse in my face. I asked her to stop shouting, she didn't, so I went up to the loo. She burst in the door and then had a go at me because I went back downstairs when she was 'ready to talk'. She then proceeded to spend the evening shouting venomously in my face. I kept trying to establish what was bothering her and what she wanted me to say or do but all she could come up with was that I had been 'morose' and that she was worried about my mental state as I seemed to be struggling. (Despite recent events with my daughters and losing my friend and neighbour I'd actually been okay until she started on me, then I went slowly downhill as her onslaught continued.)

Yes I am talking Kalms and St John's wort every day, but this is helping me, keeping me calm, rational and functional. I told her I don't feel I am struggling, but I am grieving and that is a different thing. She tried to storm out but I did what I could to make her stay, she had had a couple of glasses of wine and I didn't want her to drive. So she did stay the night in the end. In the morning we were all quite quiet and they left seemingly on okay terms, talking about arranging to have DS for a weekend to give me a break.

I was still annoyed with her, mainly because she had shouted and screamed in my back garden as well as in the house. When I had asked her to respect my neighbour she shouted 'Don't worry about him he's probably gone to bed' to which I replied, that is out of order and I came in, but she continued shouting on her own.

I was annoyed also about her insulting my daughters and making me sound as if I were cracking up because of the pills I am taking. However I was still civil with her and did not do any shouting myself. BF has been under a lot of strain lately and I am willing to let this incident pass however I am not willing to apologise or grovel to make things right. I feel I kept my temper very well, but it just made her crosser because she mistakes calmness for weakness. She always surrounds herself with people who won't argue with her and I think it came as quite a shock to her after 20 years of friendship that I would disagree with her and refuse to accept the treatment she was dishing out.

I then posted them an invitation to my son's birthday party this weekend. I hoped it would serve as a starting point for us to build bridges again. But the postman brought it back to me yesterday, unopened and marked Return to Sender in my BF's handwriting.

I'm perplexed, on the surface we were still in business when they left my house. I'm wondering if she was expecting me to phone and apologise and worked herself up into one of her states when it didn't happen.

I can't decide whether to have another go at talking to her. She is DD2's godmother although she has turned her back on her because of her recent behaviour. Her DH is my son's godmother. It makes me feel sad that we all have to lose one another because she is so proud and opinionated. I know the lost friendship will haunt me. Yet I feel strongly that I have nothing to apologise for and that I just will not allow her to dish out an attitude to me that she wouldn't dream of accepting from me or anyone. I'm very willing to phone her and try and talk but I'm wary that she will see it as me 'grovelling back' or as an apology that I don't feel is warranted. I'm also not willing to have her continuing to go on in the same vein she did when she was here.

I really don't know whether to try any more or not. What is your opinion?

Sorry this is so long.

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anorak · 04/10/2006 10:59

Her dh is my son's godfather of course!!!

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HuwEdwards · 04/10/2006 11:01

Blimey anorak, she does sound a handful. Honestly, I wouldn't expect my BF to scream abuse at me like that ever especially under the circumstances you describe - I mean if she really did think you were struggling how the hell did she expect that to improve things.

I'm struggling to comment further, because quite honestly my uppermost thoughts are that you're well rid of her.

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mancmum · 04/10/2006 11:02

so what do you get out of her friendship that sounds like a night from hell to me would not really expect that from anyone... never mind "best friend" think you need to think about your expectations of a best friend and then look long and hard at this and realise some friendships do not last the distance...

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oliveoil · 04/10/2006 11:03

She sounds very high maintenance and that she has a lot, a lot of anger seething within.

How long have you been friends, seems like a long time. Could you write a letter and hand deliver it (so it can't be returned) explaining your hurt etc.

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throckenholt · 04/10/2006 11:11

you have nothing to apologise for. Her behaviour sounds really out of order.

But if she won't open your letter (even an invite to a child's party) - then maybe best to let it llie for a while.

Or alternatively talk to her DH (he is your Ds's god father after all) - see if he can shed any light on why she acted like that and if he has any advice on how to deal with it. But make clear you were disappointed in her behaviour and are not about to apologise for any supposed misdemeanour on your part.

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mumblechum · 04/10/2006 11:30

I agree with Throckenholt. Go via her husband. She sounds like she needs some therapy!!!

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anorak · 04/10/2006 11:34

Thanks for these replies. Yes she is high maintenance, hard work, all those things. And certainly she has a lot of anger 'seething within' - very good description.

What do I get out of it? Up till this point, she's been a totally loyal friend. Generous and helpful. Example: when I broke my leg she dropped everything and came over here and looked after my family for a week while I was in hospital.

Yes it was the evening from hell. I just don't know what got in to her. She was totally out of order, no doubt. But I'm not the kind of person who drops a 20 year friendship because of one evening. My dilemma is that if I try to talk to her she will take it as a sign that I am apologising. This would be disastrous because then she would continue in the same way, believing herself to be in the right, and that would without doubt be the end of the friendship.

I am stunned that she didn't even open the invitation. Stunned that she could dismiss the last 20 years because of one evening - it's so reactive and I'm not like that myself so I don't get it at all.

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ScareyCaligulaCorday · 04/10/2006 11:35

Does she have an e-mail?

If so I'd e-mail her, entitled "I am shocked and hurt that you haven't opened the invitation you were sent".

And in the main body of the text something along the lines of "Am really disappointed that you can treat me so bloody shabbily after twenty years of friendship. Am here for you when you're ready to talk again."

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anorak · 04/10/2006 11:40

I was thinking about trying to talk to her husband. The problem is that she completely dominates him and he is scared of her. Example: during the argument, when she was not in the room he agreed with me that she was being unreasonable and contradicting herself. 'Repeat her words back to her when she contradicts herself' was his advice to me.

Ten minutes later I did so and she accused me of 'firing back at her' everything she said. This confused me as I couldn't see why it was such a sinful thing to do! Then she asked her DH to back her up. 'she fires it back at me. What does she do, Andy?' And Andy meekly replies 'fires it back at you'. Like The Fast Show when Caroline Aherne says 'What did I say Roy?'

He will just agree with her because he's scared of her. And she will accuse me of going to him behind her back (as if that's a crime too!) She seems to make ordinary things sound wrong somehow.

I can't think of a way to approach her that's non-combative and yet won't seem like an apology of some kind.

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anorak · 04/10/2006 11:42

Hi caligula. She doesn't use email, is a bit computer shy. Her DH has an email, I was thinking of trying to contact him on that. But I have a feeling she might read his emails even though she never sends them.

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searchin · 04/10/2006 11:54

Poor you Anorak, your friend sounds totally out of order. It hurts like crazy when friends hurt you. I think I would talk to her DH and see if there is an underlying problem which she just took out on you. The return of the party invite must have been like a knife through your heart, had she had too much too drink? Pherhaps you have always considered her more of a friend than she has considered you. I would be sad to accept this but people do change over time. I do hope you sort it out though, nobody deserves to be treated so rudely. Good Luck

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throckenholt · 04/10/2006 11:58

maybe her reading his email is the way to go - you can say what you mean - and not be in the wrong because the email was to him not her.

Maybe say you were wondering why she acted the way she did - can he enlighten you as to what is up with her at the moment - because in 20 years that is the first time something like that has happened and you would like to get to the bottom of it. Say you don't see much point in trying to talk to her directly at the moment since she returned your ds's invite.

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maycontainstress · 04/10/2006 12:07

Anorak, you are worthy of more than this so called 'friend'.

My gut instinct (it is ringing in my ears) is this. Steer WELL clear. She will come back to you. It may take a few months but you have done absolutely nothing wrong and in no way deserve to take abuse like that.

Give it time, she will realise that she 'lost it' and the historical friendship means a lot to her.

Stay strong. Whatever you do next to try and smooth things over will be seen by her as you grovelling. You ALREADY did what you thought was best by sending the invitation.

Step away, take a deep breath and let things take their course. Good luck XX

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wartywarthog · 04/10/2006 12:08

in my experience, if you see someone who occasionally acts badly, but never to you it's only a matter of time. i used to have a friend who would sometimes just go off the rails, but she never did it to me so i thought it must be as a result of other people. until for no reason that i could see, she did it to me. unfortunately we never spoke again. i still have no idea what happened!

you could try emailing her dh, but i'm not sure what that would achieve. he won't be able to fight your corner and she may or may not read the mail. you can't know for sure. you could try phoning and asking what all that was about.

it's such a shame as it's not often you find someone so loyal.

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Orlando · 04/10/2006 12:15

Is she a heavy drinker anorak?

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Bugsy2 · 04/10/2006 12:15

oh anorak, as if you haven't got enough crappy stuff to deal with. Big sympathy to you.
This friend sounds a bit emotionally unbalanced. I think if I were you, I would leave her alone for a bit & use Christmas as an opportunity to get in touch. It seems to me that she is adding stress to you life at the moment, rather than being helpful & friend like. You don't need that, so just give the whole relationship a break for a while.

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CheesyFeetcomingtoGETyou · 04/10/2006 12:32

If she's good friend she will come back when she's calmed down and realised that she is wrong. If she doesn't, then the 20 years of friendship hasn't meant as much to her as it should have and she isn't worth you chasing her. It was her that was in the wrong.

I think there are many people (myself included) who have had "good" friends that would only be friends on their terms. As soon as you do something they don't agree with they treat you as badly as they treat everyone else. Have you had disagreements before? How were they resolved in the past?

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MagicGenie · 04/10/2006 12:55

If that happened to me, I would be extremely tempted to cut her off and never speak to her again. That said, I do very much admire you for saying that you don't want to loose 20 years of friendship cos of one evening.

What happened that night is absolutely not about you. You were just the punchbag. The fact that she choose you is a sign, I think, that she's close to breaking point about something.

So I agree with with what maycontainstress says. Give her a wide berth; if she eventually comes round, great - but don't apologise.

If you never hear from her again....she's not worth worrying about.

Sorry x.

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anorak · 04/10/2006 12:58

Thank you very much for all your views. I am feeling very sad because I just don't see this mending. My friend is a very obstinate person and doesn't ever back down from quarrels. She fell out with another of her close friends recently and bitched about it endlessly. She claims this friend has cut her off but I'm suspicious now that BF might have had a go at her like she did me.

I'm afraid BF is under tremendous pressure herself at the moment which is causing her to be so angry and confrontational with everyone. I so want to be understanding about it and focus on her many good points but if she won't even open mail from me I do feel it's probably going to be hopeless. She will alienate everyone who loves her and be a very lonely and bitter woman and I am finding this thought very distressing. Because inside she has such a kind heart - it's just that there's something inside her that refuses to show weakness. She kind of has to pretend to herself that she is right and everyone else is an idiot - it's the only way she knows to deal with problems. I don't say this as an excuse as it's obviously wrong, but I love her and I'm finding this hard to handle. I know I have to be very careful indeed what if anything I decide to do.

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anorak · 04/10/2006 13:01

Oh my goodness I was doing so well with my Kalms etc and was feeling quite calm about it all. But my feelings break through the barrier sometimes and now I am crying.

Do you know I don't think I have ever seen my friend cry in all the 20 years. She just doesn't 'do' displays of weakness. If she saw me now she would cite this as evidence that I am indeed struggling and she was right all along.

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kimi · 04/10/2006 13:05

((((HUGS)))) Im so sorry she is still being so nasty,give her some space and if you dont contact her for a while she will see what a good friend she is about to lose im sure and rethink her behaveiour.
You deserve better then how she has treated you.

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HumphreyPETERCUSHINGCushion · 04/10/2006 13:11

anorak, have read the OP and some of the replies.

It seems to me like the ball is in your BF's court now.

You've tolerated her behaviour and rationalised it as being because due to her having a lot going on in her life.

You've behaved in a very reasonable and mature way - like a true friend.

She's thrown your party invitation back in your face.

I think a 20 year friendship is definitely worth working on, but I think you have done all you can for now.

Leave it up to her - hopefully she'll be able to think through events and come to the realisation that she has treated a very good friend very badly.

I feel any more contact from you at this point would fuel her anger, and that anger seems to come from her misplaced self-righteous indignation. You can't really help her with that IMO - she needs to bring herself round to the realisation of how unreasonable, childish and unfair she is being.

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MsBionic · 04/10/2006 13:13

Dear Anorak

I too had a friendship that spanned 20 odd years and I had to call quits. I'm godmother to her eldest boy and its a real shame that our friendship had to end but sometimes people change - I changed. I got sick of the one sidedness of our friendship (she wasn't as high maintenance as your 'friend' is). I realised that you only get one life and it's too short (especially since having breast cancer - it brings things into perspective!)


They is obviously something happening in her life that she can't handle but having lived with a mother who was a manic depressive you can't force them to face their problems - they have to do that themselves.

I suggest giving her space. Leave her be and if she needs you she was call. Send her a Christmas card and if she doesn't send you one then its probably best to accept defeat and move on.

Please remember its not YOUR fault that your friend is having problems. You can only do so much and you don't want it to drag you down in the process.

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lulunaticmama · 04/10/2006 13:14

anorak - what a sad sad state of affairs - to echo what a previous post said - someone who behaves badly occasionally will eventually turn their anger on you.

People who fail to deal with their anger on a day to day basis, tend to lock it inside and explode periodically. For no apparent reason. You happened to be in the firing line.

All this projection onto you - you are struggling, i'm worried about your mental state etc...she is clearly the one struggling. It's not weak to show your emotions - it's healthy , natural and human!!

You need to decide if you are prepared to be friends - although at the moment , she is clearly showing she is no longer interested in maintaining a relationship - if she does though , she will do this again, might be next week, might be 10 years down the line - can you deal with it again?

Wait and let her come back to you, decide if you want to pick things up. Friends are supportive not abusive!

although - LOL at 'what did i say roy?' - did love the fast show.

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winnie · 04/10/2006 13:14

anorak, I am so sorry you are having to deal with this on top of everything. I will reply properly later as I've not got time now but thinking of you xx

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