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Sharing naked pictures taken and shared without someone's permission in order to bully them

(162 Posts)
Offred Sat 24-Nov-12 08:55:37

Haven't name changed because I don't want to undermine ability to advise.

Also, am not interested in advice which tells me I am wrong to be upset about this or this is a small issue I shouldn't be making it into a big one because it is pointless given I have a different opinion which I am not going to change. What I want is a bit of support/advice with thinking this through in the context of me feeling it is wrong.

Dh's best friend visiting last night. Something weird going on between him and I anyway; on Thursday he texted me (not uncommon) asking what I was up to, I replied I was tired and stressed, the house was a mess and I was avoiding it in the bath and contemplating drinking a half drunk old bottle of wine which might be vinegar by now. Cue a whole night of pestering to send him a picture of me in the bath indirectly. This kind of thing is not uncommon, he's quite like this (Pervy) fairly indiscriminately when he has been drinking.

Last night it was a bit like he was trying extra hard to be a sexist prick, telling me repeatedly i wouldn't be interested in things because i was female and asking dh's opinion about stuff because he was a man. At one point he got out his phone and was laughing that he had a picture of a woman half naked on it to show dh. He does this kind of thing fairly often too - trying to give dh porn (will not have it in the house where we have 4 small children). I am seriously anti-porn; they both know this so I was already hmm

He went on to say the photo had been taken without permission by the woman's ex and when they split distributed round the school she used to work in causing her to leave her job and move away, the kids in her new school got hold of the photo and distributed it, crazily so did the teachers and even though he left the school in July, even he got texted it.

I feel angry and sad for this woman, I told him it was really really inappropriate, his reaction was "so what? She's over 16..."

My dh was joining in with my expression that it was wrong at this point so friend says "so you don't want to see it then?" Dh says "well I didn't say that!" and giggles so then friend holds the phone up and dh looks and friend bangs on about the photo.

At this point I had not had a drink because I had a cold. I have been trying to be kinder to dh recently so have been going to things with his friends (they aren't my friends or people I particularly like but he normally wants me to come when he meets them all), cooking nice food for him, trying not to rant about politics or put things on the TV that he hates etc that day I had been cooking a curry and stuffed parathas and cleaning the whole house from top to bottom/sorting out our bedroom so it would be nice for him (us) when he came home. I also have a stinking cold and by 8.30 when we sat down I was knackered but had lemsip rather than going to bed because friend was coming round. This just felt like a slap in the face from him.

At that point I felt I had a choice between making my feelings known or having a drink so I would be able to continue to be friendly. One of the things that stresses dh out is when I argue moral points like this with his friends so I am trying to bite my lip.

So all night I pretended to be friendly and casual and this morning I am angry at myself for allowing myself to a. Be changed and b. be walked all over like some bastarding doormat when I'm trying really hard to be kind.

OohWhatAPalaver Wed 28-Nov-12 23:04:06

I think you're massively over analysing it.

This guy is chatting with you while you're in the bath and asking for pics.

You refuse.

He then pops up with a naked pick of someone else to make you jealous and encourage your compliance in the future.

I would stop talking to your husbands friends (especially ones you know are a bit 'pervy') while you're in the bath. It's not apologist or whatever to think that someone speaking to you while naked is very comfortable with you wink

As to the woman in the pics- disgusting story, but if you consent to another person taking pics of you naked in this day and age, you consent to them ending up on the web, getting passed around etc.

Sorry if I'm not within the rules of the opinions you want to hear.

Offred Wed 28-Nov-12 15:27:33

I would say it controls me infrequently now but I have had a part in allowing that and it influences me more often. Until my last thread I enabled it by not explaining to him when he had upset me and often not questioning him when he did stupid things. On my last thread I mentioned about sucking it up because I was afraid he would react badly, he did react badly the first time at the start which I now think associated him with my dad and made me decide to suck it up so I didn't end up getting screamed at like my dad would do. His "bad" reaction was extremely minor in comparison and during a period of great stress and a lot of the talking we have done since I decided to challenge him about things has been productive.

What is problematic about things with my parents is they have a lot of expectations of me but I feel refuse to hear or respect me in any way. Challenging my dad results in an extreme explosion of rage and lots of horrible and unfair accusations in such an angry and continuous stream that if you do respond you have to shout and repeat yourself and he still does not take it in. My mum copes by saying one thing to me and a different thing to him which makes it worse.

I think I have changed my part in it by not expecting him to behave like my dad when I challenge him on childish behaviour and he is opening up, listening and making changes of his own accord too.

Charbon Wed 28-Nov-12 14:11:20

No I mean my father uses childishness to abuse and control all of us and my mother is a denier and enabler of this.

Is there any of that going on in your relationship Offred?

Is it possible that because your husband's childishness isn't experienced as problematically as your father's, you're much more likely to deny how much it controls you?

Offred Wed 28-Nov-12 09:12:26

No I mean my father uses childishness to abuse and control all of us and my mother is a denier and enabler of this.

My dh is quite immature in terms of life experience and also self awareness/regulation but not in terms of attitude or responsibility.

The situation with my parents is absolutely ridiculous and it is really unbelievable how they behave a lot of the time. DH is categorically not like my dad and I'm not like my mum but I think I must have chosen someone childlike in some ways because of modelling my parents. I think if he was unwilling to accept things were a problem or he did nothing about making them better he'd irritate me more than he does.

I think there is probably also an element of having been attracted by his closedness because I don't really want him to be like my parents who had all kinds of confusing and difficult emotions all the time when we were children so if he was happy to be reserved I was happy with that set up and the separation it allowed me to have. I'm pissed off to find out he isn't happy with that he just does it because he feels it is expected.

Charbon Wed 28-Nov-12 00:14:36

I am choosing my father and trying not to be my mother aren't I?

Can you explain a bit more about this Offred?

If you mean that your father was weak and seemed to need organising and micro-managing and your mother did this, yes those roles often get replayed in children's adult relationships.

The interesting thing about the parent-child dynamic in adult relationships is that often, it is the child who is the most controlling and powerful one in the relationship. To outsiders and even to the couple itself, it looks just the opposite. However the child usually wields control and power in passive-aggressive ways and the rebellion is shown in many forms. Keeping secrets, 'forgetting' important information or tasks, undertaking tasks incompetently so they have to be re-done, having secret affairs or threatening friendships, engaging in secret habits or addictions, enacting power struggles with sex. The covert nature of these attacks on the relationship means that the maximum disruption is caused to a partner, without the true motive ever being discovered.

Offred Tue 27-Nov-12 19:32:09

He does have lots of good points too! grin honestly grin and his bad points are not earth shattering to me and are things he needs to sort out for his own happiness and sanity anyway.

Offred Tue 27-Nov-12 19:27:18

I think it was largely because I was parenting again blush. Dh doesn't make arrangements properly, he doesn't check with me about things or he has to check absolutely every tiny thing but forgets important things or he arranges things that are a pain in the arse even when I have explained they would be a pain in the arse. I organise our lives blush basically...

Like today he was working from home so he could take the car to be MOT'd which he had arranged and planned all on his own because I have nothing to do with the car, he'd told me in advance what was happening. He took the big ones to school on the way to drop off the car. At lunchtime I asked him when he had to pick up the car (this was around 1.45) and he said later on this afternoon because the mechanic was waiting for some parts so I said "ok, I have to go and pick up my medication because I have run out and get some extra food to make sure there are meals for the weekend so I will get the big ones in my bike but would have to come home via dr's and supermarket so I'm going to be gone for longer than just going to school if that's ok with you to be here while the babies sleep?"

I have to leave for school about 2.55. I was putting my trainers on at 2.38 and the babies were still asleep and he comes in saying he has arranged to pick up the car at 3.30.hmm

So I said "whhhhaaaaat? So you are wanting me to wake the babies up, clean their bottoms and get them into the bike by 2.55 and it is now 2.38 and you are telling me this now?!"

He said "oh were you expecting me to go for the big ones?" I was like "no! I was expecting to be able to leave the babies sleeping while I picked up the big ones in the bike and got my stuff but even the conversation that we had aside if you arrange to pick the car up at 3.30 for no particular reason that means you were intending not to mind the babies or pick the big ones up and you were expecting me to cart all four round everywhere by bike entirely unnecessarily?"

He said "oh... Well I can get the car now if you want, it is done" so I had to say "well will you be back by 2.55 if you want me to get the big ones?" He said "probably not". So I said "well can you not get the big ones and I'll take the babies to get the medicine and the food when they wake up which will probably be while you are gone? "And he said "yes..."

He makes everything so much more difficult and less organised if I leave him to sort it out so I just take it over and sort it out because it really is essential we are organised as a family of 6.

bleedingheart Tue 27-Nov-12 18:59:16

I admire you for staying so long with someone who doesn't express their feelings, that sounds a very lonely place to be.

bleedingheart Tue 27-Nov-12 18:57:42

That's a really thought-provoking link crabby thank you for posting it.
Offred I hope you sort this out, neither of you are expressing how you really feel out of either conditioning or a desire to be something you think the other wants. It's great not to argue if you aren't burning with resentment at the same time. And I agree you should be able to flirt if that is acceptable in your relationship but Bikertwat is not a safe person to do this with. Why is he texting you to make social arrangements? A text can be answered at any time do he could just as easily text your DH and wait. I am not victim blaming but being pragmatic. He is trying to hurt both of you by the sounds of things.

Offred Tue 27-Nov-12 18:29:39

Crabby - I have just read your link. Yes, the friends are apologising and therefore facilitating it however the women are not frightened or upset over him but jealous and competitive. I might let dh read it later.

Offred Tue 27-Nov-12 12:30:36

Dh is working from home today and has been sitting downstairs while twinkles play and pester. He is currently wiping a shitty arse. Normally he runs upstairs to the office and hides because he "can't do anything else when the dc are around". This is a good development. I'm having to cook emergency provisions unexpectedly for my sister when she stays this weekend so it is appreciated.

crabbyoldbat Tue 27-Nov-12 11:51:00

Offred, I've seen your name on here giving sensible advice many times, so I know you're a rational being. What Charbon says makes lots of sense, so I hope you can think of a way that you can use that to move forward (in whatever way you feel best)

On another tack, and I know you've already dismissed pervybloke as part of your underlying problem, but because what you said made me think that his behaviour is being normalised in your friendship group, I thought you might find this an interesting read: captainawkward.com/2012/08/07/322-323-my-friend-group-has-a-case-of-the-creepy-dude-how-do-we-clear-that-up/

Your DH's 'friend' is enjoying this immensely.

He has intentionally tried to stir up trouble between you and your DH.

And he has succeeded.

AnyFuckingDude Tue 27-Nov-12 10:07:11

She's bloody good, that charbon

Offred Tue 27-Nov-12 08:40:28

I am choosing my father and trying not to be my mother aren't I?

Offred Tue 27-Nov-12 07:49:58

That's quite revelatory, I do parent him. The flirty may be down to that yes. I will have to think on that. The big crisis incidentally has been down to me having to parent my parents (again) who were meant to be looking after my big two this weekend but I have had to draft my sister in at short notice because they just are not responsible or trustworthy.

Charbon Mon 26-Nov-12 23:00:35

You know Offred this sounds more like a parent-child relationship than one between adults who are equal. It sounds like you're constantly having to instil a moral compass in him and his friends, which must be exhausting when you've got to do that job with four children, who should all be learning their own morals from both of you. Even the language you use is telling - you say he needs to 'pull his socks up' and although I agree that he does - that's an interesting choice of phrase given what I've observed about the possible parental dynamic in your relationship.

I can imagine that you sometimes want to retreat to a world of other adults where the difference between right and wrong is just a given - and you can relax and not feel you have to right wrongs (or rant as you say) about things that should be obvious.

It really must be exhausting and I wonder when you get the opportunity to laugh, have fun, enjoy conversations and step out of that parental role and just be Offred? Maybe that's where the flirting comes in? When in the parent ego state, people often go straight to the child state to find a balance. Whereas I suspect you'd prefer to have adult-adult relationships with the grown-ups in your life?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 26-Nov-12 21:38:59

Offred it's good you've brought it up with him. That's a start, sorry your day has been shit otherwise.

Offred Mon 26-Nov-12 21:25:46

He needs to do something to pull his socks up. Have not mentioned any rules of social engagement with biker twat but I will be expecting him to raise that issue with me I suppose.

Everything has gone wrong today, unrelated to this, and we are meant to be in london visiting my sister this weekend so I have been more concerned fighting immediate fires today than thinking about this.

I don't feel happy, feel on the edge for a million reasons.

Charbon Mon 26-Nov-12 20:01:53

What do you make of all this then Offred?

Offred Mon 26-Nov-12 19:52:39

A bit.

AnyFucker Mon 26-Nov-12 18:35:24

Head applied to brick wall ?

It looks like it.

Offred Mon 26-Nov-12 17:14:25

Have talked. At him.

<sigh> he said he thinks he just thinks when bikertwat is like this it is so ridiculous that he can't possibly mean it and it must be a joke. He says some of his other friends joke similarly and he does feel uncomfortable but thinks they can't really mean it because it is ridiculous. confused

I said do you think what you really mean is you don't like confrontation and you do that laughing along in order to avoid finding out if they actually mean it or not.

He laughed and said probably.

I asked if he was aware this thing was much more serious than just crudeness and that it was abusive and illegal and that you would have to be totally and utterly bereft of any kind of respect for women or other people to actually genuinely find that photo funny and not absolutely offensive given that it had been used to absolutely ruin this woman's life, which is of a completely different level of significance to a bit of crudeness or perviness.

He did seem embarrassed which means he hadn't thought about it but he can see what I mean.hmm

He said he tried to join in with saying it wasn't on (which was true) but made out he was helpless in the face of it being thrust in his face. So I said no, you can't say that when what you actually said was "he he he, I didn't say that!" And that response gives me the impression that either you are giving me the impression you respect women when you don't to please me or you feel unable to express to your friends when they do something that crosses the line and that both those things make me feel afraid and that in that situation it was fairly pointless me shouting at bikertwat any more because he would have just taken it as "oh he's under offred's thumb I'll wait till she's not around next time"

He said maybe he should have shouted at him.

I said I don't think you are confrontational like that and I doubt you ever will be, I am the shouter. I think you need to find the way for you to assert yourself in a meaningful way rather in defence of me being pissed off.

I said it concerned me that he squashed all his feelings and that he didn't even talk to his friends nevermind his wife about his feelings.

He says he is afraid of letting his feelings out and what happens to them when they are out and he used to write to get them out but he feels like he needs to go off on his own to be able to write because he feels like he can't do anything else when he is looking after the children.

I said well we have four of them and that isn't a realistic possibility and you will have to find ways to be able to do things like writing while the children are around because they aren't going away any time soon. I suggested he try writing poems he said he isn't good at that so I said practice, he could maybe write feelings poems for the children which would also help them understand why he was grumpy when he was etc...

I said I think he has learned to be invisible to cope with his parents but that puts a pressure on me to cater for his needs without him talking about them and I don't want to have to guess.

He said yes he sees that.

Sigh and now I have had the day from absolute hell and actually just want to punch anyone who comes near me but children seem happy for the first time in two weeks at least!

Offred Sat 24-Nov-12 19:18:59

No quite right charbon it doesn't alter it.

Yes he has been an arse fairly regularly. I should stick with my judgement over other people's.

Yes, I think the same thing about him complying and how pointless that would be. It'd just be doing what I said.

Charbon Sat 24-Nov-12 19:10:10

I should have made it clear that the 'difference' was between this situation and the one the previous poster was describing.

The 'banning' comment was picking up on your own assertion that if you banned the friendship, your H would 'comply'.

Offred this man's behaviour towards you has always been arse-like, from what you've posted. I just don't understand why he has been given any agency by either your husband or you since he first behaved like that.

Yes I'm sure his behaviour was designed to show you just how spineless your husband really is, but that doesn't alter the fact that he is spineless, does it?

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