Are the quiet, bright, studious children destined to sit with the disruptive children as a positive influence on them?(174 Posts)
I have a very bright, hard working, but quiet daughter in Y5. She has always been happy at school, despite occasional social blips, mostly due to shyness, but she is well liked so nothing too major. Following a class mix, she's now in a class that has a reputation for being loud, and generally "naughty" (although I hate using that word). For the first time she is now dreading going to school on a daily basis. She hates that she has to sit with children who talk constantly (although from the teacher's point of view, I assume she has been put where she is as the good influence). She feels as though she is suffering for it. She can't concentrate. She doesn't get drawn into conversations during lessons when she shouldn't be talking, but that now means she feels as though she isn't making any friends in the new class. I feel like she's generally unhappy at school for the first time but I'm not sure there's anything much I can do. As the "good girl" is she destined to always be put in a small group with the difficult (although bright) children who need the good influence, even though she is suffering for it?
Is it worth raising with the teacher, or is too early in the year and I'll just be told she needs more time to settle? I'm not one to be constantly contacting the teachers about one thing or another. I don't want to be "that parent", so I'm just looking for some guidance on if it's justified or not in this case.
This happens to my daughter too. She is always paired with the children who misbehave on school trips etc. I understand why the teacher does it but it drives me mad. I would mention it too.
Make a fuss, be difficult.
My DS was used as a good infulence, to the extent that he regularly had his school work ripped up and was attacked with scissors/pens by violent child (obv. very complex SN), he was also used as a reward for said child "if you can behave for the next lesson, you can spend an hour in the corridor with little Ganoush". DS ended up missing classes daily.
When I became difficult about this set-up, they added me to the list of parents who did not want their child the be in this position (there was a list!) and they replaced DS with another child to help this boy.
It taught me a lesson to always voice my concerns. I was taken aback by the class teacher coolly adding him to a list. He had been child number 5 in this role, and they just replaced him.
Teachers can be desperate due to lack of support
I'd raise it. My dad had to sit right at the back with the naughty kids and their behaviour was starting to rub off on her! Now my dd is no angel and when the minute her school performance started to drop in made it clear to her it was not acceptable. And I raised it to the attention of the teacher. Still, I wasn't able to her her moved but I am much more watchful. My dd is effortless at top of table for everything so I guess the teacher didn't see much benefit for her being at front of the class. I just feel sorry for the naughtier kids as they are not just naughty they are also not even in the top or middle cohort. It's not a coincidence in my view and apply lot more should be done to haul the discipline to the attention of their parents IMO.
I would raise it.
When my DC were in elementary school the children who were disruptive would sit out the lesson in a chair at the side of the class so they weren't next to any children at all. The extremely disruptive got moved to the Assistant Principal's office and a call home to their parents.
I had a comment from teacher last year, that my ds was being a good influence on other children. He just seemed to ignore the disruption and get on with work. He played with his friends during breaks, but kind of ignored them during lesson.
But the truth is, he complained to me at home. Luckily, as teacher said, other children started to copy ds, so it was ok in the end.
I did worry that my ds would be seen as a teacher's pet type child by his friends though.(Luckily it didn't happen.)
If she is suffering so much, it sounds totally wrong.Teacher should be managing disruptive children, not with your daughters's sacrifice. I would speak to teacher.
I sit all my more active/vocal pupils together. This means I can get the rest of the class settled/working then go and sit at the 'noisy' table to help them.
Noisier pupils are often like that because they struggle with listening/work, so it makes sense. It also means I'm not constantly getting on to particular pupils and making the (quiet) pupil beside them feel bad.
I'm heavily influenced in my decisions on seating by seeing my (lovely,quiet, academic) daughter being the child who always got put beside the tricky child. She used to be in tears at home, or anxious because she'd had a whole day of the teacher giving them both a row because she didn't (apparently) want to single out the tricky child all the time. She also started hating school. Do let school know it's upsetting your child. They will probably move another pupil there who is a bit more able to cope (not a criticsm btw).
Thanks for the comments. You've reassured me to speak to the teacher. We have had similar situations last year, when my daughter was being offered out to other children who talked too much as a classroom partner, but she was getting more of a say on who she sat with, rather than now where she's in the midst of a fairly large group of disruptive children. It is affecting her. I am going to speak to the teacher. Thanks for your comments
I'm happy to read that you're going to raise it
I was that child, and found it so difficult to cope with. Parents and teachers thought I needed to be "drawn out" more and it would help me be less quiet but it had the opposite effect. It would have helped me so much just to feel like someone was looking at it from my POV and sticking up for me. Even if it doesn't changed the situation, your daughter will benefit from feeling like you are on her side.
Good that you're going to the teacher with concerns. It's difficult getting seating plans right. Sometimes there aren't enough 'good' places to try to separate the tricky pupils. IMO dotting them all over the class beside 'quiet' pupils just leads to them shouting across the class at each other/gravitating towards each other like little magnets. It does make me do face when they complain that 'other noisy child is distracting me' .
If it is upsetting your child then I would raise it. This happens to both of my DD's and gets my goat, but until now they have expressed nothing more than mild annoyance about it. If I felt they were becoming genuinely unhappy about the situation I would raise it with the teacher.
The other problem I find with this is when teachers deal out "group" punishments for poor behaviour from a certain table (for example) and my DD's become guilty by association with the very people they have been sited beside to "neutralise"
Dabisadancemove - that is exactly what is upsetting her. They are all losing house points, when she is clearly not the one causing the problems. She generally takes life very seriously so she does get upset by it, when she hasn't done anything wrong.
I was also that quiet child at school who would get lost among a group of loud, disruptive children, so I can totally empathise with her.
why do you assume they've put her there to be a good influence? Maybe the teacher put her there to try and encourage her to be a little more sociable?
I'm a bit puzzled. Where exactly are they supposed to seat these "disruptive chilldren" if no parents want their children next to them?
Yes, happened to my 'good, quiet' children too. Raise it.
I'd raise it too. I don't mind being 'that parent' when it comes to my children. I'd rather that they felt able to speak to their teacher themselves before I stepped in. But if I'm not able to speak up for my children when they can't, then who will?
I honestly don't know the answer to disruptive children in the class. We kind of got round it by my son moving himself if he felt himself getting distracted by another child.
I am amazed at the behavior that some teachers have to endure though.
My dd's have both been subject to being punished for the misdeeds of badly behaved children they have been seated with. My eldest (Y4) daughter was crying so hard about it when she came out of school I couldn't even get the gist of what had gone on until she calmed down. She takes things like that very hard as she takes huge pride in her own good behaviour. Fortunately, so far it has only happened once to each of them. If it happens again I will raise it at parents evening.
GingerIvy, that really isn't the op's problem. It's up to the class teacher to arrange things so that disruptive behaviour does not impact on the learning of the other children.
I think it's a fair question. Where are these children supposed to be put? What do the parents expect if they don't want their child associated with them?
Maddy Hatter - I do think she's been put there as a good influence. She isn't unsociable. Just quiet. She has friends and is popular and well liked. She just isn't loud! It is possible to be sociable yet quiet! She's just not an "out there" person.
I think it's the good influence thing because similar happened last year, except that time her teacher spoke to us first about it at parents evening and she said she had asked a couple of children which "good influence" child they wanted to sit with, and my daughter was universally chosen. They then asked us which out of the children we thought she'd be happiest sitting with - so at least she didn't feel hard done by because of it!
GingerIvy, I expect the school to have an action plan in place that doesn't include sitting quiet studious children next to those who have difficulties confirming to what's expected in class. A teacher posted above saying she say these children together. That strategy often means those children learn far less but surely it's better than adversely affecting the poor child being used as a buffer.
There are an awful lot of these threads at the moment.
By all means speak to the teacher but be prepared to be told something else. You've said you assume she is a good influence. That might be so, but maybe these other children are more gregarious and the teacher is encouraging that in your dd as well as listening skills in them. It might work well all round.
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