Second property and school catchment: fraudolent?

[thelmafitzgerald]

Please don't flame me, I am just trying to understand how the school catchment system works in the UK as I am from a European country where the system is completely different!

This is the scenario:

Family with small DC owns two properties, a 2 bedroom flat that is where the family currently lives and a one bedroom flat that is technically empty (not rented out).

2 bed flat is in a deprived area with really bad schools, while the one bed flat is in a really nice affluent area with outstanding schools.

Would it be fraudolent or illegal according to the UK system and law if the family moved into the one bed flat for a while before and after the DC started school in order to secure a place in outstanding school in affluent area? Let's say if the family actually lived in the one bed property for 6 months?

So essentially my question is: can a second property lawfully be used in terms of school catchment?

Many thanks!

[BodsAuntieFlo]

I don't know about fraudulent or illegal but it certainly isn't honest is it?

[monkeywithacowface]

Yes it would be fraudulent and if found out you risk you child's offer of a place being withdrawn.

[monkeywithacowface]

Why don't you just sell both the properties and buy one decent one in the area you want your child to go to school?

[llhj]

No it's not fraudulent and I would do it.

[MrsHulk]

You need to check the criteria for your local area - the details will be on your council's website.

In a lot of areas, the council will check to see whether you own more than one property. If you do, they will decide which is your real home.

It will partly depend on how long you've lived in each home, where your mail goes, where you are registered to vote, etc etc. They may also look at plausibility - ie does a family of five really live in this tiny studio flat? Some councils even hire private detectives to check where people are going home to at night.

So it's not a straightforward answer. A lot of people do play the system that way, moving temporarily to the right area, but you have to be careful to make the move for long enough and to genuinely move.

It would certainly be seen as cheating/immoral by a lot of people and may not make you any friends at the school gates.

[LIZS]

You need to check the LA rules for residency when the application is made, the place awarded and when starting school (home visit fir example). You would probably need to demonstrate that the 1 bed is actually your home during this period - council tax, child benefit, electoral roll etc- and not your "other" address. They may ask how long you have lived there. If the school is very popular look out for other prospective parents willing to raise it with LA. Not sure it is worth the hassle, why not just move and sell both.

[llhj]

In reality very few councils do any of the above. They are on their knees financially and could no more afford a private detective than the man in the moon. Some very highly sought after schools may do a bit of sniffing but in reality for primary places, very little is done.

[llhj]

Just move in asap and move all documentation etc. How do all these prospective parents know who's applying and the number of bedrooms etc.

[MrsHulk]

Obviously it varies between councils and schools - I think OP is asking whether it would be fraudulent/illegal to move like this. The point she needs to understand is that lots of people move for school places but councils are wise to this, and she needs to genuinely move (in accordance with local criteria) for it to work.

Councils can and do withdraw places if the child gets in using a fake address, and they do actively look for problems and take reports from other parents who may be suspicious of a family's claimed address.

[monkeywithacowface]

For DS's school we had to send copies of rental or mortgage agreement and length of residency, child benefit letter and council tax. If the school suspect fraud they certainly do investigate round these parts

[Floggingmolly]

llhj, I don't know where you live, or if that genuinely is the case round your way; but it's most certainly not universal and it's terrible advice.
All oversubscribed schools have some checking mechanism in place, and if it's not oversubscribed there's no issue with admissions anyway.
Op, if you're in London don't even dream of doing this. It just won't work.

[Benedikte2]

If the 2 bedroom property was rented out for say a year then you could legitimately say your home was the one bed place -- but could you live there crowded like that?
Schools do get people to check up where there's doubt eg visiting in the evening or following kids home after school. Case in Sothampton they did that -/ looked at utilities bills as well etcI suppose you could split the family and you and DP live in different homes with different DC. If you have more than 2 DC then reasonable to suppose you were both fully occupying a home

[thelmafitzgerald]

flogging I am in London, 2 bed flat is in Newham council and one bed flat is in Westminster council, if that is of any relevance.

[StandoutMop]

I know someone who moved into rented, renting out their family home about 1 mile away, to get into a v over subscribed secondary. They plan to move back once DC starts at the school in the autumn.

This is fine according to our council (not London) as they were really living there when applying and starting at school. Moving subsequently, even back to their own property, is apparently fine as council can't differentiate between moved for "genuine" reasons vs moved for a school place.

So it might work in some places. In London maybe not - and how manageable would school run be once you moved back?

[PotteringAlong]

You need to apply from your main permanent residence. If you can afford to have an empty flat in Westminster you can probably afford to properly move to an area with better schools.

[user789653241]

I am foreign and I don't really understand UK school system fully, but if you are able to read some thread on MN, you should be able to determine this would hold some uncertainty.
Why would you want to risk it with your child's education? One unhappy parent could trigger full investigation, may end up in losing place?

[babajuice]

Depending on how much time you've got before applying for schools, could you maybe move from Newham to an area with a better school?
Then keep the Westminster flat and perhaps rent it out to cover any additional costs that the move might entail?

[meditrina]

The pan-London system automatically checks across all boroughs, and if you have been paying council tax for both properties it is highly likely to flag an investigation.

If you want to be sure of securing a school place from the 1-bed flat you will need to move in to it completely, and sell the other property. If you have not disposed of it, there is every chance it will be counted as the actual family home.

[BoomBoomsCousin]

If you are actually going to live in the one bedroom flat as your main home it isn't fraudulent to apply for a school space from that address. But you need to actually move there and treat it as your main residence - pay council tax on it, register to vote there, etc. It would probably be helpful if you rented out the two bedroom flat to demonstrate that it isn't your home too. The question will be how long you need to live in the Westminster flat in order for this to be considered your actual residence and not just an attempt to gain a school place somewhere you aren't really living. Some councils had been insisting on multi-year leases for people who were renting in an area, but I'm pretty sure that was knocked on the head by the courts. So maybe a year? It's a grey area and you may want to get some proper advise from a solicitor who has dealt with cases before. If you move into the flat for a few months (say from application to start of school year) and then move straight back to the two bedroom flat, then I think that may be considered fraudulent.

[titchy]

Boomboom that is incorrect. Moving for the purpose of gaining a school place when another property is owned is fraudulent. It doesn't matter how long you move in for unless you dispose of the original property.

on a side note if OP can afford a flat in Westminster in addition to her usual home she has plenty of options...

[llhj]

I am extremely experienced in London school admissions and the reality is quite different to the nonsense trumpeted here about councils being rigorous in checking. Most simply aren't. Fact. There are a tiny number of withdrawn offers due to fraud, minuscule. Check out the data, it speaks for itself. They do not have personel for this. If the op is legitimately living in the address, there's no problem. There's nothing to investigate. Having another property that they move into a year or so later will not invalidate the original application. It's not terrible advice, it's all about the level of risk the op is comfortable with.

[SymphonyofShadows]

If they are paying full council tax on both properties and move the main residence to the Westminster flat then I struggle to see what they are doing wrong. Surely that is all any of us contribute?

[llhj]

0.001% of offers withdrawn in 2015.