Very small schools

[Changebagsandgladrags]

We're thinking of moving the DC from a London primary to a very small village school. There are just two smallish classes.

The eldest will go into year 5 and the youngest into year 1. The school seems like it would suit DS2 he's very quiet and doesn't like busy environments. But DS1 is used to it and makes friends easily.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of very small

[CharlesRyder]

In my experience a class that covers a whole key stage is very difficult to teach well. Not impossible, but not every teacher could do it.

People will come and tell you that such small classes are social suicide and they may be right. My DS is in a class of 8 and it's suited him down to the ground this year, he's been blissfully happy. I am hoping his class increases in size as he goes up the school though.

[GoldfishSpy]

Our DCs are in a tiny (fewer than 40) rural school. It is wonderful. In Reception they have both become free readers, made lots of friends of all ages and settled beautifully. The school's outcomes for students are in the top ten for the county (of more than 250 primary schools)

They have a teacher, NQT in training and 2 TAs for a class of 11.

The downside is that small rural schools are vulnerable to closure.

[Changebagsandgladrags]

Class size would be about 10. I don't get the social suicide argument, surely private schools have small classes? But I've never experienced it so I have no idea.

[Essexmum69]

The problem socially can be the gender mix. 10 children doesn't sound that bad, but if it is 2 boys, 8 girls then your DS could have problems making friends. We rejected an indi at secondary for DD because the schools gender mix was heavily boy dominent and we felt she would be short of potential friends.(the small size did not bother us)
The main problem with small schools imo can be extra curricularly as they do not have the numbers to be competative with sports teams, limited musicians for orchestras etc. This tends not to be as much of a problem in KS1 but more limiting higher up the school. Obviously this can be made up for out of school you just have to organise it yourself.

[LibrariesGaveUsPower]

10 children per class spread over 3-4 years in age? That can be very difficult socially -maybe only one or two others your own age who have known each other since babyhood.

[mrz]

I went to a very small primary school. There were only 3 in my tear group. Strangely it was never a problem socially as the school was like a big family (with younger and older siblings) until I moved to grammar school (where there were more people in my class than had been in the whole school). For most of the first term I was lost as I knew no one but once I made new friends it was fine.

[LibrariesGaveUsPower]

mrz- did you grow up in the area and attend from reception? I have heard of those tight knit groups being ever so hard as an incomer?

[MrsNuckyThompson]

I went to a tiny school. There were 11 in my year. We had composite classes with two age groups throughout except primary 7.

It was ok. But for example there were 2 girls and 9 boys in my year and it did mean that me and the other girl were thrown together. If she (or I!) had been a bully it could have been awful!

[mrz]

I attended from reception but we had a girl join in the juniors (to make the total of 3 in my year group).
Any new comers were warmly welcomed by all because it was so small.

[LibrariesGaveUsPower]

That's good. My friend had a tough time - but I think it was quite a cliquey village, her parents struggled too.

[ChunkyPickle]

DS1 is in an infant school with classes that are about 16 - 20 each - there's some shared teaching, the PE teacher comes and visits. It suits him down to the ground as he knows and plays with everyone.

I think for friendly kids it helps, as they can always make friends out of year group - DS has been hanging around at holiday club with a boy 2 years ahead and they're getting on brilliantly.

For shyer kids, it's great because there are no strangers.

The other points raised about the difficulties of teaching across a whole keystage are true, - and I suspect more of an issue as you go up the school - at reception/year 1 they're all so different anyway.

[holmessweetholmes]

My dc's village primary has about 35 kids. It is utterly wonderful - nurturing, family atmosphere, chickens, rabbits, guinea pigs, forest school, great involvement in the local community, loads of trips and extra - curricular stuff. I love the fact that there's so much interaction between children of different age groups. The Head is awesome.

We only moved here in October, and the dc went into yrs 2 and 5 and felt so welcome. I feel so lucky that we picked this village to live in. And I feel the dc are being challenged academically too.

Having said all that, dd started at a very small primary (different part of the country) age 5 and it wasn't very good. High staff turnover, limited facilities, unchallenging for bright kids, few trips etc. It was also always on the verge of closing because of low numbers, which is always a risk with tiny schools, especially if tiny schools aren't the norm for the area (which they are where we live now).

[LibrariesGaveUsPower]

Yes, a school being tiny because it is in a sparsely populated area is at much lower risk of closure than a village school with another a mile away.

[Changebagsandgladrags]

Right will investigate the gender mix first.

[Millymollymama]

I think the problem with small schools can be lack of competitive sports teams, collaborative musical activities, quality drama and possible problems of moving to secondary school which is, inevitably, much larger and busier. The nurturing, family atmosphere suddenly disappaears overnight. If you like animals, then great, but lots of children might prefer to be in a good school football or netball team and play in the school orchestra. You just have to know your child. Not to mention have a wide circle of friends.

[mrz]

Not necessarily my local village school has produced children who have competed at county and national level in sport and music.

[mrz]

They were once accused of cheating when a Y2 won the county school cross country competing against children four years older.

[holmessweetholmes]

Surely at primary age just participating in some sport is enough? Plenty of time to get serious about it from secondary age. And do primaries really have orchestras?! Wow! I've never heard of that. My dc's school offer (free) instrumental lessons and they all do plenty of sport.

They also go and do some sport sessions and occasionally other activities at the local secondary school, which gets them used to the place a bit. And almost all of the kids from the primary go to that secondary, so they'll have people they know there.

[mrz]

No primaries don't generally have orchestras (especially ones with less than 50 pupils) but they do have music lessons and very able musicians are invited to join county youth orchestras

[howtodrainyourflagon]

very nuturing, all the kids know each other and the different year groups mix naturally.

My dc go to a tiny village school. We have had dc from the school in national children's orchestra and representing county at sport. They play football, chess, cross country etc against other small schools in the cluster, so it's fair. I'm very happy with it for my dc

[4kidsandaunicorn]

I went to a very small school, the total teaching staff was 3, I really did not get on with 2 of the teachers and the 3rd (lovely lady) was part time.

I like the idea of more accountability and input, the DCs school is massive in comparison to my old school. I love it. With a head, deputy, and a teacher for each year the DCs see a new teacher each year and it keeps things fresh, to my mind that is also a lot of people coming up with ideas to teach and keep the kids interested.

That said I did have a particularly bad time at primary, the head (who also taught the juniors) had his favorites and the rest of us were pretty much ignored!

[Saracen]

I have little experience myself, but one point is that having the same teacher several years running can be brilliant or terrible. Some of my friends have removed their children from small schools in which the teacher was a particularly bad match for their child. A year of this might be tolerable, but three or more years of it would be unbearable.

But of course if the teacher is great for the child and is able to get to know the child very well (both through small classes and because of being together for several years), then keeping the same teacher is wonderful.

[holmessweetholmes]

I guess small schools can be good or bad, as can big ones of course. I've just never seen such a lovely, happy, productive and positive place as my dc's village school. It almost makes me want to change to teaching primary instead of secondary!

[flashbunny73]

Our DC's school has circa 95 children in 4 classes. So at the most there are 2 'years' in one class.

The school in the next village has 28 children in 2 classes. This means there are 3 or 4 'years' in one class. One class has only 9 children of which there are only 2 girls. One girl is aged about 7 and the other will be 4.

For me, personally, the school of 28 with 2 classes is too small. Yes it is lovely that everyone mixes together etc. However we would like our children to have a choice of friends etc (as they naturally wont get on with everyone and will fall out with chums from time to time) so I think its healthier to have a bigger class.

One thing that we find tricky with the school of 95 is sports provision. All the sports is on one day a week when a sports teacher comes in. So basically they only get one sports lesson a week. The after school sports club, on the same day as the sports lesson, is limited to KS2 as its too chaotic for the teacher to try to have approx 25 children ranging in age from 5 to 11.

[flashbunny73]

Also it does mean you need to take your child to after school activities so they can 'widen their social circle'.