SW London prep schools and moving on to good choice of secondary - can anyone give me their advice/experience as a parent?

[Everhart]

We are currently trying to choose between a few SW London prep schools for our DD.

What isn't that clear to me is just how important it is to go to the 'right' prep in order to heighten your chances of having a great option for secondary.

Naively I assume that if a child is bright enough (or has other outstanding personal qualities, sport or music etc) then at 11 they will get a place at a really great London independent day school regardless. ie that you don't neccessarily need to have been to a recognised 'feeder' school, or even just a prep that sends a few children to a certain secondary each year, in order to stand a chance of a place, if you meet the requirements.

But am I wrong? Do you need to be only really looking at prep schools that 'get children in' to specific 2ndaries? Obviously the children need to pass the entrance etc but does it just 'help' to attend a certain prep school in the first place, due to links/familiarity with certain 2ndaries?

Why I am asking: a prep school that in many ways would suit us well (proximity, affordable fees, nice atmosphere) doesn't have a particularly good track record with 2ndaries. Girls go on to a fairly limited range of quite local single-sex 2ndaries, whereas I think our ideal would be for DD to go on to co-ed and possibly a more wide-ranging location eg Alleyns, Latymer (sp?), Ibstock.

There is another prep school that I also like v much BUT journey is much further and fees considerably higher. However though non-selective also, this one seems to send children to a greater range of 2ndary schools, including several at more like the schools named above.

DD, we think, is really pretty bright (so hard to tell at this v young age, I do know that, so we are operating in the dark a bit!!) so we're not at this stage, anyway, worrying about how to get her through a tough 11+ entrance. Also, if she turns out not to be academically bright I think we'd rather she DIDN'T go through a stressful mill to end up at a school where she'd struggle anyway. But assuming she is bright, should we really be moving heaven and earth now (and it would mean either a nightmare school run at junior age, OR a stressful house move to somewhere much smaller, AND a headache wrt fees) to send her to the more 'well-connected' prep? Or, assuming she is bright etc, is it really immaterial, and she stands a perfectly decent chance of getting into our top choice of 2ndary wherever she goes?

Sorry, this is a rambling post, but it's just so hard to tell what the prevailing ethos is in SW London... SO much competitiveness going on that it can be hard to tell what is really neccessary and what is just hot air!!

Thank you hugely in advance!

[saganoren]

I wouldn't go through a stressful school run or a house move or bankrupt myself for a prep with a better track record in secondary places. Many of the kids at that prep will have been tutored etc, though obviously some preps are pushier "better" than others. Have you noticed anything definably different about the far-away prep? What is its catchment that it produces these results - are the parents different types? Is it selective?

FWIW, my advice always in these situations is to send the child to the local state primary and tutor from year 5. I've seen so many state kids get in to fantastic secondary schools by that route and their parents have saved £££. Also, I've seen kids at top preps not do brilliantly. For that reason, I'm not convinced the prep adds that much to the process, preps with fabulous results are usually selective to begin with.

[mertonmama]

I'd save your money. DD is at a SW London state primary and got 3 offers for indies (2 scholarships) and a grammar offer as well. We had a tutor from year 5 but the credit really needs to go to the school - and DD of course!

Think really carefully about signing up for a school at primary level which is not walking distance from home. When DD was little it was lovely to walk to school and play in the park afterwards. Now she's in Year 6 she can walk home on her own - which is helping her get ready for Secondary school in September.

[meditrina]

How old is DD?

As you can see from the other replies, children can secure places at secondaries from a range of primaries/preps (though you may need to tutor if your school does not prepare for the entrance exams of the schools you are interested in).

Schools can change over time, so if your DD is young, the current destination schools now might not be hugely relevant. Though I can see why you'd be attracted to one with a greater range (suggests greater experience, possibly better advice on which schools might suit).

But the bottom line for me would be finding the school where you think DD would flourish (whichever sector) simply because that is the best grounding for her. Do not underestimate the impact of an awkward school run.

[Everhart]

Thank you everyone!
My DD is only 2 (!) and yet I'm getting the distinct impression that we have already left some of this thinking quite late!! Staggering really. The school we REALLY like (the further away, more expensive, co-ed one) is already incredibly over-subscribed, also non-selective and just lets them in on date of registration. We only registered when she was 18m (thinking that was plenty of time...) but it's probably a long shot by now anyway...
The closer, less expensive school seems SO sweet and friendly which we don't underestimate at all. It's single-sex though and we really like the other one partly because of the co-ed factor.
Our closest state primary isn't at all great and we stand no chance at all with the further away ones as we aren't Catholic or C of E churchgoers (and even then we risk not getting a place, they are INSANELY hard to get into even living on the doorstep.)
Am trying not to underestimate the difficulty of a long school run... the less 'perfect' school would be walkable (just about) though we'd probably still need to drive mostly while she's so little.
Interesting to hear about the tutoring angle... Am so naive I didn't even know about that!!
meditrina, you're absolutely spot on, it's the greater advice, greater experience re the 2ndary schools that attracts me to the co-ed school... I just get the impression that the other school just doesn't have these partic 2ndary schools in its orbit, all the girls just go onto one of three local girls high schools, none of which are particularly attractive to us (academic powerhouses, mostly, but not much in the way of extra-curriculars... also we are just keen to avoid academic hothouse for DD at any level if we can help it)
Thank you so much all!!

[saganoren]

also we are just keen to avoid academic hothouse for DD at any level if we can help it

Then I would go for the local school. Believe me, if the other school has better results it will be for that reason. If you have these schools in your orbit, then you can aim for them, probably most of the other parents don't. REALLY don't underestimate the misery of a long school run, especially with a 4 year old. It will impact her social life as well.

[TeddTess]

go for the local state school, til 7 at least, by then you'll get a feel of how she is doing / her cohort in class will make a big difference. if she is bright in a bright class she will do well at a state primary.

if the school isn't great then you can move her at 7

keep on top of it all yourself. get going with bond books from yr3
get a tutor to prepare her for the independent entrance exams (most of the prep school kids have tutors from what i hear anyway... madness)

(fwiw DD1 just got 2 academic scholarships for selective independents from state school starting this sept.)

the main thing you won't get at most state primaries is the range of sport or music, so be prepared to organise that yourself outside school, not hard to do in SW London! Even the most sporty primaries tend to have a small group of very sporty kids who are in all the teams, def not very inclusive.

[Everhart]

Thank you everyone!

It's SO nice to hear about children's success re entry and scholarships etc from state schools. Well done to all your DCs! :) :)

I feel in such a quandary as we just want to do the best for DD in the end... having said we're not keen on academic hothouses we also do want to make sure it's a great (all-round) education. DH and I were both lucky enough to attend independent schools (me outside London, him here in SW London) that got great academic results but in a non-hothouse atmosphere... I can't tell if this sort of school doesn't really exist anymore, or certainly not in London (?) as the general sense I am getting (hopefully inaccurate!!) seems to be that you either find a school with incredible results at 2ndary level that is a nervous-breakdown-inducing sausage factory, OR you choose a lovely well-rounded school where academics fall by the wayside a bit.

Please tell me I'm wrong about that!?!

I think I'm also panicking unnecssessarily that the decision has to be made RIGHT NOW - we can always move her if the school doesn't turn out to suit her. Do children still settle quite well at new schools at age 7? I guess it's later on, when they're a bit older, that you'd have to worry more about friendship groups being too firmly established etc.

[TeddTess]

have a look at the independent preps, a lot of them get significantly bigger at 7, lots join then.

we have chosen kingston grammar for DD1. i don't think it's an academic hothouse. nor surbiton high our other choice. you're going to have a long 9 years ahead of you if you start worrying now, honestly you don't need to, just keep on top of what your dd is doing/learning at school and relax until yr4/5 then panic like the rest of us including those from the academic preps (they are definitely not more relaxed, leaving it to the school ime).

[MMmomKK]

Proximity to a school, especially in the early elyrars is very important.

You post is a bit confusing to me though. You say the nearby school does not have a good track resort with secondaries. Yet you later say that their girl go to one of three "academic powerhouses" nearby.

How do you define "not so successful" then? Is it only because girls do not go for further away secondaries?

I don't know where you are in SW, but if you are taking about Latymer, Goldophin, St.Pauls - getting into these schools is hard even for the girls from the top preps. And there is a reson why some preps send in certain number of girls every year, and why other preps do not.

I don't know how much of those school's intake comes from the state schools - but they might be able to share that info.

[MMmomKK]

"early years" - of course

[saganoren]

Have you actually looked at your local primary or is "not great" going on hearsay. Primary schools are generally very good, these days.

In a similar position to you years ago, I sent my dc to the "not great" option , then moved them at 7 to the prep of my dreams. It started at 7, no previous entry point. They passed a very competitive 7+, without being tutored, so the school must have done something right and I'm very glad they went there a) because they made good friends locally, b) we saved a lot of money and c) they have at least some experience of life outside their somewhat rarified prep world.

So I would at least check it out. If you have and hated the feel, then I'd still go local.

[Opopanax]

Quite honestly, if prep fees are going to be a struggle, it is madness to be doing this. Secondary fees will be higher (much much higher in some cases) and what if you have another child or children?

[BIWI]

Why not the local state schools? Merton primary schools are generally fantastic - Pelham, Wimbledon Chase and, I think, Dundonald.

Why put yourself through all this torment when you have such fantastic resources on your doorstep?

[Wobblypig]

Though I would say, there are regular migrants from Schools like Pelham etc into the private sector in Merton. Both my children are in separate single sex preps in Merton. Those joining from the state sector do catch up but are behind when they join so switching at 7 is not as straight forward as it sounds. Those that move seem to do so because of bullying or issues with regard to SEN in my experience.
I am not sure I would call Pelham or Wimbledon Chase a fantastic resource but good standard primaries.

[BIWI]

Well Wimbledon Chase is 'outstanding' (level 1) and Pelham is 'good' (level 2) according to Ofsted, so I think that would make them more than 'standard'.

[BIWI]

Sorry, and the last Ofsted report I could find also classified Dundonald as 'outstanding'. That's the three key primary schools locally. I'd say that was pretty good, wouldn't you?

[DarkBlueEyes]

I wouldn't bother doing prep school either. My State School DD got four out of five schools she sat for - with tutoring. We discovered the local preps were all tutoring anyway so what is the point in wasting your money? Our local "good" state school has done just as well as most local preps and significantly better than one local prep. About 50% of our local state school go private. I would check with your local state primaries what percentage of your leavers go private and use that as your guide. All those wanting a private place at our school got one. Save your money. you're going to need it at secondary!

[Everhart]

Thanks again everyone!
BIWI, we're not actually even in the right zone for any of Dundonald, Wimbledon Chase or Pelham... Absolutely not a cat's chance in hell of getting into any of those, irrespective of their OFSTEDs!
DarkBlue thank you and well done to your DD!

[GJHmum1]

I totally agree on the state school/tutoring approach. My DS went to a lovely state primary and just sat 11+ for a few independents. He was offered our 'aspirational' one and we were gobsmacked to be honest. We underestimated the school he is in and the quality of the one hour per week tutoring session he had. He was up against 100s of prep school children so we're very proud but also a good example of what the combination of good state primary, tutoring and a reasonably bright child can achieve. Plus he walked 2 minutes to school for the past 7 years and has had a lovely experience which has been wonderful. I agree you mustn't stress but do stay on top of things and stay close to the school wherever your DC goes. Best of luck.

[GoodArvo]

Wobblypig - about state school children being behind when they move to private school at 7.

A lot of the children I know who have moved to private school during primary moved because they were behind in the state primary school. The movers are often the children who aren't achieving or have problems and who need smaller classes, more attention etc.

[Opopanax]

I moved from a state school to a private school at 11. I was very much behind for about six months. After that I was a long way ahead. It's about ability, not prior teaching, I think.

[helloalll]

Would agree with Goodarvo- almost all the children who leave DCs primary to go private in the first few years leave precisely because they are strugging and are often way behind their peers and would benefit from smaller class sizes etc

[helloalll]

And thinking about it - the ones who tend to join from prep schools ( generally due to financial reasons) are not noticeably further ahead. Sorry if sound a bit chippy but i get a bit fed up of friends at private schools saying how private schools are 'always working 2 years ahead I'd state' when it is blatantly not true and surely must depend on the child?

[Maisyplate]

I've got a friend with experience of doing 11+ transfer from the state sector (one of the so-called outstanding schools) and the private sector and she says there've is no comparison. Prep school child is bright but state child far brighter, yet prep child got more offers than sibling. State child was tutored, prep child wasn't, but prep child was massively better prepared fir the exams nod interviews.
The biggest difference was once they started secondary - state child struggled despite being probably as clever as the others and is still struggling in certain subjects 3 years in, due to poor teaching in primary and not having the foundations, prep child slotted straight in and is doing better despite being "worse" at the same subjects, just that the teaching was way better.
Local preps are taking in kids from the "outstanding" state primaries because parents are unhappy with the education their children are receiving and because they feel they won't get into selective secondaries, not because those children are struggling.

[BIWI]

OP - my point was firstly to ask you about state schools in general in the area. Have you even bothered to explore them? I pointed out the Ofsted results of those particular schools to counter Wobblypig's erroneous assertion that they weren't very good.

The point still stands. Have you looked at the local state schools? Don't just assume that paying money means a better school.