Stop Schools Cheating Please

(453 Posts)
twiggles Sun 20-Jan-13 11:17:02

Whatever your child is like, some primary schools and nurseries are pretending children start off at the low end, so they can pretend to inspectors of private and state schools that the child has developed only because of their teaching. If your child's advanced , some schools in rich areas take it out on the child. They won't bother giving the child attention, because the child's advanced, so they let the child coast downwards. But they give reports in writing about the child that pretend the child has started off at a low point in development and then got much better because of the teaching at the school....when the fact is the child was able to read or write when the child started at the school and as the school is giving the child little attention, the child has coasted downwards. Tha's what many schools do so they can pretend they've developed everything in the child, they want all children to be the same standard, like a photocopier. Poor children. Some teachers admit they're cheating and don't take the reports seriously and write them to impress inspectors. This is happending all over the show and I can't understand why inspectors are allowing them to get away with it. If parents start grading teachers in the school every three months the teachers won't be able to hide what's going on to the inspectors and teachers who are pretending might stop. Teachers that aren't giving inspectors the facts need to be stopped...they're not giving children an honest education.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Mon 21-Jan-13 18:19:24

'Hope'

ShipwreckedAndComatose Mon 21-Jan-13 18:20:22

I think we all agree with you mrz grin

Feenie Mon 21-Jan-13 18:22:58

Apart from maybe snowybrr - fgs, read the thread before you comment, woman!

pointythings Mon 21-Jan-13 18:26:55

Thanks, Shipwrecked

<takes big slurp>
<brings out the cheese>

mrz Mon 21-Jan-13 18:39:03

It's not fair [sulks] I tried really hard and only managed ONE!

pointythings Mon 21-Jan-13 18:43:56

If I reported you, would that be cheating, mrz? grin

mrz Mon 21-Jan-13 18:51:30

of course NOT! grin

ShipwreckedAndComatose Mon 21-Jan-13 18:52:31

Who would ever know wink

mrz Mon 21-Jan-13 18:58:02

only us ...unless someone tells!

mrz Mon 21-Jan-13 18:59:38

it wouldn't really be "cheating"

pointythings Mon 21-Jan-13 19:18:10

But now that we've discussed it, I don't think MN Towers would fall for it... sad

mrz Mon 21-Jan-13 19:27:05

oh!

ShipwreckedAndComatose Mon 21-Jan-13 19:57:00

I for one won't report anything you type Mrz!!!!

maybe that will fool them

mrz Mon 21-Jan-13 20:30:55

wink

SavoirFaire Mon 21-Jan-13 22:45:48

I realise I'm pitching in after the conversation has rolled over here... But anyway, I was shocked on a recent opening morning for an outstanding, massively oversubscribed and sought after primary in my neck of the woods which we have no hope getting in to that the head basically said that he believes other schools do this. I.e. that they mark children down lower down the school, so that they can show large value adds higher up.

As it happens, I think this is bullsh... and is him trying to justify why his outstanding, massively oversubscribed and sought after primary, which also just happens to be smack bang in the middle of a very affluent area, has good overall KS2 results but pretty poor value add score in comparison with the other schools in the area....

ipadquietly Mon 21-Jan-13 23:00:06

It happens savoir.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Arisbottle Mon 21-Jan-13 23:15:43

I started my teaching career in a school that would make most Mumsnetters run for the hills - or at least the nearest naice church school. It has fantastic value added because the primary schools that fed into us were awful, so it was not particularly difficult to add value. The secondary school in question tended to keep quiet about the exact reasons for its outstanding value added score which was often splashed across every proespectus and website page

As a secondary teacher I know that teachers can be hesitant to award a high level for an assessed piece of work or in an official report if they think it will make it difficult to sustain progress either that year or the following year.

Level,ing in many subject can be quite subjective anyway.

Arisbottle Mon 21-Jan-13 23:17:25

Savior I teach in a secondary school in a relativey affluent area that is rated outstanding and our value added score can be lower than other schools because out feeder schools do such a good job. The reverse of my previous ISP really,

richmal Tue 22-Jan-13 08:24:35

I do not agree with more assessment of teachers. I think their job of teaching 30+ children in a class is hard enough. However, their judgement is subjective. If as a parent I assess my child differently from them, there should be some independent test available whereby it can be seen who is right. This should not include the sentence, "We only test them up to this level".

There could be then no consiracy theory of the more able being under assessed.

I've actually had my child start school on a lower grade than her previous school until I pointed out she had actually pssed a SATS test at the higher grade.

twiggles Tue 22-Jan-13 15:51:39

Some teachers admit they start off very low, so it looks as if they're the great and talented responsible for all of a child's progress! Such teachers don't appear to take the regime seriously and will do whatever they can to make themselves and their school shine out in inspections, even if they know that what they say has little basis in reality. The cheating needs to be stopped. If any teacher or school is caught cheating, a fine could be levied on the teacher and the school in question.

JustinMumsnot Tue 22-Jan-13 15:53:44

Twiggles sweetie. Any chance of some of that, you know, evidence stuff to back up your assertions here?

Some teachers prefer to set secure levels, rather than low levels.

What you say is happening may happen, from time to time, but it's certainly not widespread by any means.

richmal Tue 22-Jan-13 16:51:38

If a parent thought their child were being under assessed, rather than assessing the teacher why not assess the child with an independenetly marked test. Until such time as this happens, there is no evidence one way or another as to whether children are being under assessed or not.

Surely both sides would welcome this as it provides the evidence needed.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Tue 22-Jan-13 16:56:16

Twiggles, please could you not just repeat your assertions over and over again.

It would be more helpful to move the discussion along with evidence

Otherwise, what is the point of posting?

pointythings Tue 22-Jan-13 18:18:54

Well, anecdotes aren't evidence, but my DD2 was levelled at 5c in reading and writing at the end of Yr4, and the school most certainly knows that this is setting themselves quite a task if they're to demonstrate continuing progress - but they did it anyway, because they feel that's the level she was.

So I'd really like to see some research evidence to show that this marking down conspiracy actually exists...

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