School wouldn't let DD1 go to the loo....

[Ilythia]

As a bit of background DD1 has had a few urine infections before and is still getting over one after a bad bout of constipation at the moment which means she feels like she needs to wee a lot, like once an hour. I realise this can be a PITA but she is 4.10, she doesn't understand that there isn't anything there.

She was in the school rehearsal today and apparently went to the loo once and then a bit later asked to go again and was told no. She then wet herself a little bit in her knickers.

I only found this out when she was undressing for bed and I saw her knickers and the fact that her bum is red raw. She said they were then wet all afternoon

It wasn't her teacher who said no, and she doesn't know the name of the teacher, so what do I do? Call reception and say she is to be allowed to go when she asks? Is that too PFB?

[Iwasthefourthwiseman]

At 4 she shouldn't be told no to going to the toilet. Not pfb at all!

[EnnisDelMar]

Not PFB at all, you need to speak to her teacher and make VERY sure they tell anyone concerned to allow your daughter to go whenever she asks to, for the time being.

Good luck, keep on at them and give her an extra cuddle - poor lass!

[blueberrysorbet]

I would complain as otherwise she will have to be at home until she is better I guess? can you talk to the teacher who does reheasal and tell her the issue. why is it a PITA? hope your daughter gets better soon..

[booyhoo]

not PFB at all. the child has a urine infection she should be permitted to go to the loo as many times as she feels she needs to, regardless of her age. does teh school know she has been ill?

[PanicMode]

I've had exactly this problem with my DD who has been diagnosed with "irritable bladder" - ie I don't think the GP knows exactly, but it does mean that she thinks she has to go a lot, even if she doesn't produce anything much. She too has come home red raw a couple of times - but I went to speak to the teacher and she has dispensation to go to the loo whenever she needs to, without asking. Definitely go and speak to the teacher.

[Ilythia]

Oh thanks guys. Her teacher knows that she needs to go a lot. I think it is from her being constipated and sitting on the loo straining for so long but she has had uti's in the past and her normal teacher is fine with it.
I can't get in to speak to the teacher (work in a school 15 miles the other way) so woudl it be better to call the office (they know me as I was on the PTA), send in a note or both?

Am furious tbh, she is red raw and was weeping at bedtime as she thought I would be cross for her asking as the teacher was cross, and she was so embarrassed she couldn't tell anyone

[Ilythia]

hah. Dh has just got home. I have told him and he is going to take her in in the morning and 'have words'

[gingernutlover]

i would bet money on the fact that the teacher involved does not normally spend time around reception aged children

YANBU to be fuming but a quiet word with the class teacher, explaining how upset your daughter was and how much pain she was in should fix the problem.

[Ilythia]

Have coached DH on the best approach. Fatherly concern tinged with disappointment at how upset/embarrassed she was shoudl do it....

The thing is, her class teacher is lovely, and would probably be mortified to know she had been in damp knickers all afternoon, it is whoever is doing the show...and if it is who I think then I think she is in the junior side rather than the infants so you could be right ginger.

[mummyosaurus]

Mention it for sure, she must be allowed to go to the loo. Hope she is not too uncomfortable. Could you put some spare knickers in her book bag, just in case?

[Ilythia]

I will put some spares in, but the problem is she is very shy about things like that, so wouldn't ask to be able to change, and won't change without permission She doesn't help herelf really!

[littleducks]

I put spare knickers in with pe kit which stays on peg might be worth considering but she should def be allowed the toilet

[BeenBeta]

"Fatherly concern tinged with disappointment at how upset/embarrassed she was shoudl do it...."

I think I would be a bit more..

"Fatherly concern tinged with molten anger barely contained by I won't go there if you dont push me...."

[Ilythia]

Beenbeta, you haven't seen my DH. He can't not do intimidating just by his build. Plus he wears his armoured bike jacket in the cold so that bulks him up a bit

good idea littleducks, will sned her in with 2 tomorrow to stash in pe bag.

[Ilythia]

I would probably swear though, Not good!

[mumto2andnomore]

Her normal teacher should really have made all staff aware that she needs to go to the loo often but probably forgot-we are only human. I dont think you need to make a huge issue about it,just remind her.

[BeenBeta]

Ilythia - oh to be a fly on the wall at that meeting. Tell him to remember to take his helmet off.

[ivykaty44]

I had this with junior school, any chidl was given a black mark on the board for being naughty and this included going to the loo. dd2 got a UTI and consequently had to be put on antibiotics. I had a meeting with the deputy head and class room teacher and asked if they realised that this was dangerous, I spent the time and wrote a letter to the governers letting them know that I wasnt happy and would take further steps if this made my dc ill again - they stopped the naughty marks for going ot the loo straight away. One of mum had already moved her dc to another school due to this practice but I hadn't been aware of this until afterwards.

there is plenty of information on the internet on UTI and hanging on and not going to the loo and getting a UTI

yes I can understand the teachers not wanting lots of chidlren in the loo's at class time - but I don't want to keep my dc off school due to illness brought on by her being told she is naughty for going to the loo and then making herself ill.

[Nettlerash]

Well it can be difficult. I use to teach little ones and their escape from the classroom was to go to the loo! so often one child will say `can I go to the loo' then the next and the next and before long you have a little gathering in the loo of little chatterboxes!
Did her teacher know she had an infection? If so she should have been aware of the need to go more often, if not I can kind of understand why she might have said no if she had been quite recently, although she should have checked she was feeling ok too.

[Panzee]

Sometimes they do just fancy a chat/break but if you send them one at a time it's not too much of a problem. And you can see the desperation on their face if they're asked to wait and it's more than a desire to stretch their legs! To be honest I don't see what the problem is with letting them have a quick break, even if they don't really need the toilet. But that's just me!
On my first day of teaching practice the head said to me "never not let them go to the toilet" and that has stayed with me.

Just remind the teacher she should have let the other adults know, she probably forgot.

[treedelivery]

We have similar issues to you Ilythia. I send regular essays notes when she is going through a bad time. I detail her treatment, how it is going, what the paed has said, what the dietician has said. I thank the school for their support in enabling dd1 to get the the loo regulary, by their encouraging her to drink hourly, and by their efforts to help her maintan her dignity thorough helping her keep her troubles low key in the class room [dd1 is 6, and big into dignity at the mo].

Hence I thank them, remind them, and show how serious I am about this. I've found leaving a paper trail is the only way. Other wise it's too vauge, open to interpretation, and in amongst the other 29 requests for looking out for x's hat, y's violin, z's homework book.....I have no idea how the teachers even remember their own names let alone their pupils!

If you send a fairly detailed note outlining her medical situation, the advice you have been given by her medics, and the plans you think she needs putting in place I think it's easier for all.

really hope she's feeling better, it's the pits.

[Ilythia]

Thanks. I agree that the teacher probably forgot to mention she might need to go, it's not the sort of thing you would need to remember too much in reception I woudl have thought, so not something that needed 'handing over', so I hold no malice.
I do think that any teacher who tells a 4 yr old they can't go to the loo needs a quiet word though.

I do agree you don't want children running off to the loo all the time, god knows I have stopped secondary school children from going to the loo in my class, which is why I said it was a PITA, but secondary vs infant = very different imo (especially as the ones that ask me normally stink of fag smoke)

[WriterofDreams]

I'm a teacher and I think it's wrong not to allow kids to go to the toilet. In a lot of schools children are pretty much banned from going to the toilet at any time other than breaktimen and lunchtime on the premise that if one goes they'll all go. The thing is, this does happen but only in schools where going to toilet is a novelty, ie schools that have the ban.

As a supply teacher I noticed that in schools where the toilet was allowed at any time (with the provision that not more than one child goes at a time) there was really no problem with it, children went a reasonable amount of times and were responsible about it. However, if I went to a school where there was a toilet ban and I let one child go there would then be an avalanche of requests because the toilet had a novelty factor, which is silly when you think about it.

There are some children who can't be trusted to go to the toilet because they will act up or even leave the school but IMO the ban should apply to them not to the other children. I really worry about the little ones in the younger classes who find it hard to hold it in and for the older girls I worry that they might be struggling with periods (which can start as young as 8) and that stopping them from going might cause them horrible embarrassment.

If I were you I'd make sure it was known in the school that your daughter is not to be stopped from going to the toilet. Her teacher obviously knows this and is good about it but she needs to make sure that other teachers and supply teachers are aware of that as well. Some teachers leave a list of important details about children (SENs, allergies, behaviour etc) with any teacher who looks after them and this helps to stop situations like this.