Dilemma - should I report nursery?

[Fionn]

I've just fallen out with a friend over something which may seem relatively trivial but which has made me very angry (unnecessarily so in the opinion of my friend).
Two weeks ago it was said friend's turn to host our weekly NCT meeting. When I arrived she said she thought her youngest might have conjunctivitis but wasn't sure and was taking him to the doctor later that afternoon. The other mother (also a good friend) there stayed with her children, as did I. My friend took her child to the doctor and when she came back I said "is it conjunctivitis?" She said "well, the doctor was vague, we've got drops anyway" or something like that. I didn't question further, and assumed that meant the anser to my question was "no". My friend then asked if I could pick up her children from nursery in 3 days time as she was away all day at a wedding. I agreed.
I spoke to my friend 2 days later and she said her child was a bit poorly and had been sent home from nursery and she'd let me know whether she was still going to the wedding. The next morning I spoke to her and she said child was fine, "just a bad cold" and was going to nursery. When I picked her child up from nursery at 5pm he had very crusty eyes and obviously had conjunctivitis. I'd agreed to take her child back to my house until someone else picked him up an hour later.
To cut a long story short, my friend told me a few days later that it was conjunctivitis. I was amazed and said I would never have agreed to look after her child if I'd known, particularly as dp was due to have laser eye surgery a few days later. She said she'd made it clear at the time, I said I felt she hadn't. Anyway, I said I thought she was selfish and irresponsible, believing that she had deliberately misled me. She was very upset at this accusation and we've fallen out. Apart from that problem, I feel very angry at the nursery for accepting a child (and this child wasn't the only one) with such an infectious complaint. I am tempted to report it to the council, without naming my friend's child, as I feel the nursery has acted very irresponsibly. To make matters worse my 4-year-old has come out with the infection. I'm annoyed about that, upset at falling out with a friend but still feel I'm in the right. Am I over-reacting?

[WideWebWitch]

Ok, the short answer to your question Fionn, is yes, IMO you are over reacting. Don't take offence! But! The woman was being irresponsible sending her child to nursery if she knew damn well it was conjuntivitis, and it sounds as if she might have done. Maybe she said the same to the nursery as she said to you, i.e was deliberately vague about a cold or something and didn't admit that it was conjunctivitis (what a PITA it is to type, that word!). So I wouldn't say it's the nursery's fault necessarily, who knows what she said to them? It sounds to me as if she really wanted to go to the wedding and wasn't going to let conjunctivitis get in the way. So, yes I suppose she was being selfish and irresponsible. Although it's not as if it was measles for instance, it was potentially bad news for your dh if he was about to have laser treatment. OK, so I've talked myself out of my first response! Second response, NO you're not over reacting and she's a cow!!

[Fionn]

WWW - no offence taken! I appreciate honest and unbiased views on this, which is why I posted here. My friend has admitted that the nursery did know what it was, as several other children also had it at the same time but she said the manager there is laid-back.

[WideWebWitch]

In that case, ring the manager, ask to see his policy on infectious illness, ask why he didn't apply it in this case and threaten to report him. I'm so reasonable, me! Hope you did see my second response too?!

[janh]

I'm a bit confused about conjunctivitis. My DS1 has recently twice had eye infections, apparently linked to ear infections; the first time we were on holiday and travelling about and getting him to a doctor became incredibly difficult, he saw the nurse at the First Aid post at Legoland in Denmark and she bathed his eye and gave him an antihistamine which settled it down so we ended up postponing it till after we got home. When we then saw a GP he was given Amoxil which just about cleared it up within the 7 days. Conjunctivitis wasn't mentioned.

Two or three weeks later it flared up again, only in the other eye, but the same ear hurt as before. This time we saw our own GP, who prescribed a different antibiotic for the ear and some drops for the eye, but when I said "it's not conjunctivitis then?" he said yes it was. ?????

Another 2 or 3 weeks later and the first eye has flared up again. No ear pain this time but the eye is very red and he has a sore throat. I always thought conjunctivitis (it is a bugger to spell!) was a distinct and separate eye infection, not just any eye inflammation connected to ear/throat things - like what your nursery said, several children have had it together.

Sorry, Fionn, this isn't at all helpful to your situation but maybe conjunctivitis as such wasn't mentioned by the doctor (and your friend didn't ask because it would have been inconvenient!) Anyway I can understand you being so cross and I hope it hasn't affected your dp and his laser surgery (wish him good luck if he hasn't had it yet!)

[Fionn]

janh - thanks for that. Dp had the second eye done on Friday and it's still sore but healing well. His vision in the first one, which he had done 6 weeks ago, is near perfect and still changing. I remember reading the thread on this months ago - have you had it done? Was it the dishy Mr O'Brart?!!

[Faith]

I'm confused too! As a child I often had conjunctivitis, which the GP said was simply inflammation that could be triggered by many things. In my case I think it was cat hair. I still get it occasionally. No GP has ever mentioned to me the possibility that it might be infectious, and noone else in my family, or to whom I've been close ( partners, housemates etc) has ever had it.

[pupuce]

I have to say I agree... what is the big deal with conjunctivitis... it is rampant and common with kids... (yes if your DP was having eye surgery... maybe it would have been nice to be clear but how common is it with adults ?) anyway it isn't a deadly or very serious disease... well that's what I think, but maybe someone will tell me how dangerous c is... I know it is inconvenient but so is a bad cough or cold !

[Fionn]

I've always thought, and this has been borne out by what I've read, that c is one of the most infectious complaints there is. It always spreads like wildfire around nurseries or schools, although it does seem common for siblings not to catch it, which is strange. Is it a catch-all word for a variety of eye complaints?

[lou33]

Now I'm confused! I always thought conjunctivitis was contagious and that is why children are not allowed at school with it. DD2 was not allowed to attend school when she had it. I caught it from her and the gp prescribed me drops, said if it got worse i had to go to casualty (!) because it can cause serious problems and is very contagious. I'm off to trawl google about it now I think.

[threeangels]

I worked in a daycare where they actually had to shut down a couple of rooms which held 12-22 kids because the conjuctivitus was out of control. This went on for months before that. They had to disenfect everything from toys to walls. One of the teachers there came down with it over and over it for months. I do beleive its at all harmful but just highly contagious. The problem with it is its not just person to person its also whatever is touched by the infected person is also contaminated. Which is the reason daycares and schools are so easily to spread it. To me its the most annoying thing to control. Fortunatley only 2 of my kids have had it once. My youngest caught it a couple months ago at the church nursery.

[threeangels]

I take that back about it not being dangerous. I just read that if left un treated the infection can spread to the respiratory tract or other areas of the body. Which I was not aware of before. It also said if left untreated it can cause eye vision loss (partial or completley). I think I was so used to seeing it and dealing with it I just dealt with it as not a major thing. See how much I know.

[SofiaAmes]

I'm sure a doctor could explain this better, but I believe conjuctivitis means an Infection of the Conjuctive. It is very contagious amongst kids (you need physical contact to the infection to spread it), and can be painful, but not terribly dangerous unless left untreated for long periods. My son got several times (each time he got an ear infection) what I thought was conjuctivitis, but the doctor called something else (i don't remember the name) as it wasn't the conjuctive, but another part of the eye that was infected. I was not told not to send him to the childminder, and she didn't seem to mind taking him.
I don't think you overreacted. Your friend lied to you and took away your right to make a choice. Going to the wedding and sending her child to nursery was her choice to make (whether right or wrong), but whether you looked after a sick child wasn't her choice to make for you.

[Marina]

Bacterial conjunctivitis is the contagious, rampant one. Our nursery's policy is to exclude any child taking any form of antibiotic medicine for 48 hours after commencement of medication in case of side-effects. That would include prescribed eye-drops. The policy is also to formally note any infectious complaint or symptoms thereof and if necessary exclude the child if the parent/guardian brings them back the next day untreated.
BUT lots of children apparently develop conjunctivitis-type inflammation with colds and other viruses, maybe that thought was at the root of the nursery manager's policy. AND apparently even bacterial cj will clear up reasonably fast with scrupulous bathing of the eye etc. Personally I'd always get it seen by a doctor to rule out other eye disorders.
Fionn, I have to say I would be crosser with the friend and less cross with the nursery. I think what she did to you was definitely not mums' cricket and I am not surprised you fell out with her.

[Fionn]

This is very informative! Maybe it should go under Health. I know people view infectious stuff in different ways. My children are fortunately rarely ill and I'm cross on this occasion because I felt I wasn't given all the facts. I would not have picked up my friend's child had I known what it was. Ds caught it at his old nursery a few months ago and it was awful putting the drops in, he hated it. As well as the hassle of keeping children off school, not being able to play with friends, worrying that it's been passed on to others. I would not have taken the risk. My friend is obviously more laid back. Also, the nursery concerned on this occasion was attended by a child who died of meningitis last year. I'm not suggesting the nursery was in any way to blame but you might suppose that would have made them extra cautious on health issues. At the moment though I am more upset about falling out with my friend than whether I should report the nursery. Please keep your views coming...

[Fionn]

Posted last message before I read Marina's and Sofiaames' posts. I feel a bit more justified now!

[pupuce]

Maybe I am too laid-back about this BUT DS had conjunctivitis last year (very sticky and mucky eyes)... nursery excluded him (there were several cases at teh time).... and asked me to go to the GP... I didn't because I felt he wasn't ill but I did call the HV to discuss what is conjunctivitis (symptoms, treatment,...)... and DS cleared it up in 5 days with no drop or anything. Nursery was surpised I had done nothing (as everyone else does it seems) and couldn't believe when he came back so quickly with dry eyes. Spoke to the GP afterwards who said... "yeah... we give drops but really unless it's really bad... it clears up on its own".
So who knows !

[Willow2]

marina - love the image that mum's cricket conjures up. Maybe it should be mum's rounders?

[mears]

As a student nurse I got conjunctivitis (after a patient vomited in my face, but that is another story) and got a corneal abbrasion. I was not allowed to be at work whilst being treated. This is still the case for hospital employees as conjunctivitis is contagious. Just thought I would add my penny's worth.

[jasper]

ooh dear.I am here to put my cat among your pigeons and side with WWWs initial response!
Fionn, I have to say your friend's vagueness about the doctor's naming of the condition sounds EXACTLY like me.I cannot for the life of me imagine a friend deliberately misleading another over a child's illness but I fully relate to your friends vagueness.
As well as being vague (And I know this can be very annoying for my non vague friends!)I know I am very laid back about my childrens health compared with most mums I know and am always surprised if someone suggests not visiting because their child has a cold or whatever.Not saying I am right and they are wrong, just pointing out I can see where your friend is coming from, being like that myself and I would be really mortified if my vagueness was interpreted as anything unkind.
The bit in your post which worries me most is you saying you thought she was being selfish, irresponsible, and deliberately misleading. That is an incredibly hurtful bunch of accusations and I am not surprised she was very upset.
Why do you have to be in the right? Seems to me noone is in the right . She was I think, a little thoughtless at worst but hardly selfish, irresponsible and deliberately misleading, surely?
I do hope you can make it up with your frind and that all the kids are better now

[Fionn]

jasper - you're right about different people's attitudes. But I am laid-back about coughs and colds, I just think cj is a horrible thing for a child to have in my experience and having it makes you so limited in what you can do - ie the child not being able to mix with anyone for the best part of a week.
I would never dream of asking a friend to look after a child who was on eye-drops for something so infectious (unless it was an emergency)nor would I dream of taking that child to nursery while on the drops. So maybe you're right in using the word thoughtless rather than selfish and irresponsible, but that's how I felt.

[SofiaAmes]

jasper, I think the point is that Fionn's friend didn't ask. Just because she may be laid back about colds, doesn't mean that Fionn necessarily is. I think it is a matter of respect of others to at least ask and make sure that it isn't an issue. (for example in Fionn's case it was particularly an issue because of her dh's surgery). Imo it's no different than lighting up a cigarette next to a baby. The smoker may wish to give themselves cancer, but it's not reasonable for them to assume that everyone else is as laid back about smoke inhalation as they are.

p.s. pupuce, I too am normally not one to run off to the doctor everytime my child sneezes. However, one of the times my son got this eye infection that I described in an earlier post, I just figured it would clear up on its own. But it didn't and got very bad, very quickly (within hours) and when I did bring him into hospital they freaked out and told me off for leaving it so long as it could have caused permanent eye damage.

[SoupDragon]

DS1s nursery accept children with conjunctivitis provided they have been using the medication for 24 hours (I think, may be 48hrs). You need to check with your nursery what their policy actually is and why they believe this is sufficient. I assumed that once the medication have been used for the 24 (or 48!) hour period the infectious nature drops considerably although I have no medical reason for thinking this, it's just what I assumed having been told my nursery's policy.

I think you're over reacting a bit. Personally I would have assumed that the answer was "probably" from your friend's first answer to your question and the fact that the doctor had given them drops to use. I would, however, have been v annoyed at your friend's deliberate lie in saying it was "just a bad cold" when she obviously knew what it was. So, I'm sitting onthe fence with a "yes and no" response!

As an aside, I got it when bf and was told I couldn't use the antibiotic drops but to use 1tsp of bicarbonate of soda diluted in 1 pint of boiled water (left to cool ) and use this with an eye bath a few times a day. Cleared up fine.

[CAM]

i think conjunctivitis can be caused by things other than an infection such as sand getting into the eye, etc. Once an infection is established however it must be contagious, presumably? I have to say that Fionn's friend is not unusual in her attitude, after all most kids get something or other and while it would be nice to protect evryone else, you can't stop living! However,I wouldn't necessarily choose to look after someone else's child with conjunctivitis and I definitely wouldn't want to if my own child was about to have surgery (of any description). So Fionn I think I am on your side with regard to your choices!!

[Lil]

Fionn I wouldn't blame the nursery. As a mum who sends her children to one, let me tell you I have s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d the truth before when it comes to putting a sick child in nursery. BUT when I say sick I am not talking a temperature or a rash etc but things like conjunctivitis are not a big deal, and all kids get it and get over it.
There's a limit to the amount of time any mum can take off for a 'not so' sick child. And it is infuriating to have to pay out exorbitant nursery fees and STILL have to take your child back home!!

I guess that's where a nanny comes into her own, she would look after your child sick or not. But I digress! Really Fionn, leave it... one day in the future that 'not quite truthful' mum might have to be you.

[Bozza]

I have to admit to being like Lil. It is so frustrating to have a happy/well child with some ailment sat at home while you are paying £25 to not have said child cared for and taking a day's holiday at no notice. So I too have stretched the truth re nursery. However its a bit much for a friend who is doing you a favour and also especially regarding your DH's eye surgery.