How do you teach social conscience? Or don't you? All views welcome!

[WideWebWitch]

My ds is nearly 5 and a couple of days ago made what sounded to me like an ungrateful and spoiled remark. I proceeded to do something I swore I wouldn?t: I turned into my mother.

I said something along the lines of: ?some children don?t have enough food to eat or water or nice clothes and you do need to realise how lucky you are. We have a nice house, you have lots of people who love you, you go to a lovely school and I don?t want to hear you moaning about xyz Thank You?. Poor boy, blimey!

I regretted it instantly but I'd said it and he asked me more about these poor children. I explained, gently, that it is true, that some other children and people in the world aren?t as happy and lucky as we are. He now wants to give some of his old toys and clothes to these children which is sweet. But the whole episode made me think about how and when (if?) you teach children about social conscience/awareness of other people etc? I?m aware that it is probably ridiculous and pointless to say these kinds of things to a 5 yo but without saying them how do I get across some of the ideas behind my outburst? A nearby school sent Christmas boxes to Africa last year and were told that these were for children who have no presents, so neighbouring schools are telling children about disadvantage and asking them to help make a difference. But ours hasn?t yet. But I?d be grateful for some advice. How do I:

• Get across that we (in the West, and we generally) are lucky and that we should think of other people who aren?t so lucky? And
  
  
• Where can we send these things that he now, very sweetly, wants to donate? (I do have a view that charity is not a good thing in some cases where it is filling gaps in government responsibility but I don't think that's for this thread!) Ideally I?d like to send some stuff to Afghan refugees detained here. There was an article in The Guardian on Saturday about the women and children in various UK detention centres. Any idea how I do this? Any other bright ideas? Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice.

[anais]

It sounds to me like you're heading in the right direction.

Maybe a look in the library for some books about how people in other countries live.

Charity shops such as Oxfam or save the children will be pleased to take your sons generous donation. Or maybe the local hospital?

As for the Christmas boxes, we did some last year through a company called Samaritan's Purse. You could try doing a web search.

I'm sure others will be able to give you some better advice!

[anais]

Ooooh, I meant to say, I don't think that 5 is too young to teach your child about this. As long as it's done in a gentle, non-frightening way then I don't think you can start young enough

[prufrock]

Action Aid (and other charities" do an "adopt a child" scheme. My Mum worked for them when we were kids and we sent money each month (doesn't have to be a huge amount). AA is a very responsible charity doing sustainable development and this particular scheme concentrates on education for the next generation. The money raised is used to set up schools, buy books and sport equipment etc. Ok so these are things that governments should be doing - but they don't. The benifit for you is that you and your ds will receive regular letters from "your" child, and can write back. My brother, sister and I each had a penfriend in Etheopia, and I seem to remember that they produced some educational materials which your ds's school could use.

[anais]

Oooh, great idea Prufrock

[Bobbins]

I think if your child sees you watching the news and reacting to it, its enough.

[Bobbins]

......and reading the papeof course. I always wante to know what they were so interested in.

[Bobbins]

......and reading the paper. I always wanted to know what they were so interested in.

[Bobbins]

durr..sorry!

[Tinker]

www - don't think what you said was out of order really. I've said similar things to my 5 year old daughter even though I know I sounded like a cliche. But it had the desired effect of making her think a little. She does like to give toys to other children and she does have (as much as she is capable of) an awareness that not everyone has as much as we do. Eventually she will grasp more but I think the drip drip effect is ok.

The only problem is at Christmas, which I use as a bribe for being good. The kids have to take a gift into school for less well-off kids and trying to explain that, 'no, it's not because they haven't been good', is getting confusing!

[ScummyMummy]

I think social conscience is a bit like jesuit Catholicism. It's "give me a child at the age of six and she's mine for life" type stuff. I've always had one- as far back as I remember, anyway-and am not sure that it's a wholly good thing... At any rate it can easily spill over into a social guilt complex akin to a Catholic guilt complex, which is a bit uncool and angst inducing, especially in the teenage years.
Anyway, I personally wouldn't worry about instilling a social conscience in him too much, WWW. He sounds like a sweetie and I'm sure he'll just catch it from you...

[Bobbins]

exactly, don't try and instill it. I remember my Mum and Dad taking me on CND marches and giving me the "Peace Book " and the "Wind in the Willows" to read. I remenber being so traumatised at an early age, by a documentary about Hiroshima. Bloody hippies. They were great but I'm sure they didn't realise that the thought did cross my mind, if I made a real protest, ran in front of a car, it might make a difference! You are so idealistic when you are young. I think just encouraging them to have a gradual, healthy interest in world affairs is fine.

If you're not good you won't get no presents is pressure enough I think.

[Bobbins]

Fungus the Bogeyman was better

[Bobbins]

I meant "When the Wind Blows" not "The Wind in the Willows". I blame the pint of prawns

[Bobbins]

ps; I feel the same about charities, cynical re; absolving government of responsibililty. I have been enlightened by the vying for my custom(!?) that we have had to endure from various charities in the recent months.

The last thing I want at a time like this is competition over where our small donations go.

[Ghosty]

I think a social conscience is important. I taught in a private school for a long time and it always worried me that the children that went there had no idea how lucky they were to live in nice houses and have 'label' clothes and go on nice holidays twice or three times a year. In one story time (the children were 9 years old) I was reading about the adventures of a child whose dad happened to be on the dole. As most of them didn't know what that meant I tried really hard to explain it to them very carefully. Most of the children were sensitive enough to see how hard it must be for families on the dole but one little so and so came out with, 'Aren't they lucky, getting money for not doing anything? My daddy has to work really hard to get money'.

[Rhiannon]

To make instant donations that you know will help speak to your HV and ask where your nearest Women's Refuge is. Ours is just up the road and they are grateful for donations of womens and childrens clothes and toys. A lot of women arrive with the children and only the clothes they are wearing.

You could get a book published by DK called something like Children of the World Just Like Me. It explains different cultures and countries but obviously not poverty but will show him who else is 'out there'.

[anais]

Ghosty, those kids sound like my cousins! They look down on us because we don't dree head to toe in designer labels etc, but anyway...

Just wanted to pick up on Bobbins' comment about watching the news. I think 5 is too young to be watching the news. I find it traumatic and upsetting at 22 and with at least some understanding of the issues behind it. I thik it's wrong to expose young kids to the horror of life before they can really understand it. At that stage it's just violence with no real reason (though I guess that's what most of it is anyway..).

My point is you can get a very distorted idea of the world just from watching the news. It's all bad news, and that just isn't true to life. Ok there are lots of bad, horrible things going on in the world, but news never shows all the good things. I think its frightening and inappropriate for young children.

[bluestar]

A colleague's little girl, then aged 6, had a doll that she broke on purpose. She said it doesn't matter, you'll get me another one mummy won't you. They do have money, big house etc. but the kids are not spoilt in anyway. My colleague then took her daughter to one of the poor parts of town and walked along the streets, trying to get her to understand that not everyone is as lucky as her and that she should respect the things she has and other people. Maybe a bit extreme but it was a simple way of highlighting privilege at this young age.

[tigermoth]

I took my son to Margate for the day a year ro two ago. I'm sure there are lovely bits of Margate, (Please margate people don't take offence - I hardly know your town)but the part we happened to see on the sea front was full of hotels offering emergency housing. The atmosphere was nothing like the usual seaside towns we had visited - Brighton, Broadstairs. A lot of these people weren't on holiday. Looking at many of them, you could sense sadness and confusion. My son picked up on this immediatley and I tried to talk to him about asylum seekers and others who might have ended up in those hotels. Just being there left a big impression on him. That christmas, when he prepared a church christmas box for another less fortunate child, he talked about what he had seen in Margate.

I think that talking alone does not create social awareness, though I've had countless 'what a lucky boy you are' conversations with mine, and will continue to do so. Can't stop being my mother, just like you www.

Even what my son sees on TV has little impact on him. So many images pass before his eyes. One minute Buffy is slaying a vampire, next minute it's the news and he sees a woman who's given birth up a tree in a flood.

The things that most stick in my son's mind are things he's seen for himself, which then lead on to a conversation about what was happening.

[susanmt]

I think the only way to teach your children these values is by your own example. I am not sure how to do this - but I am sure it is the right way. We talk to our dd about other parts of the world (she is fascinated by my globe at the moment) even though she doesn't yet understand what we are going on about. I want her to be aware that there is a big world out there and she is a part of it. We (dh and I) have together and seperately travelled in the developing world and have things and photos from our travels in the house, so they also form the basis of conversations with her. She loves looking at photos so sometimes we look through the photo albums and talk about the places we have been.
We also give to a few charities, and we tell her about that. If you decide to give either money or things, you may well get thankyou letters and/or magazines about the work they do, which you can use to tell ds about the things that money goes to. I would second the comment about the womens refuge - they were very grateful for the extra baby clothes etc and toys we gave them. Toys are very useful to them in the run up to Christmas as the children staying in refuges often have left everything behind and there si not much money available.
I dont think this is very coherent (out of my head on painkillers for kidney apin again) but hope it helps.

[susanmt]

thats kidney pain, not apin. See what I mean?

[SueDonim]

My dd's see the less palatable side of life at first hand every day on our way to school. They haven't been traumatised by it, but I don't know whether that's because they have taken it in their stride or are heartless. We regularly pass elderly beggars and other sad folk. This week there has been an old man roaming around near a bridge. He seems to have dementia or something similar but he's just on his own, dressed in rags and peering into car windows.

When we go to the supermarket there are almost always hoardes of street kids asking for money. And then there are the child beggars and 3,000 homeless who live under one of the flyovers. Last week we saw the unedifying results of a police eviction of street traders, their stalls smashed up and now with no means of making a living. The poverty is overwhelming and so massive you just can't imagine anything can make a difference. But there are charities at work here and even if it improves just a few people's lives then I guess it's worth contributing, either in cash or kind or in time.

[SimonHoward]

SueDonim

Where in the world are you seeing all this?

[Rhiannon]

Indonesia if I remember rightly or was it Dover? R

[WideWebWitch]

Thanks for your comments everyone, it's really interesting to see what people think. Anais, he doesn't watch the news! Just children's programmes and I agree, the news is inappropriate at his age. Bobbins, I remember When the Wind Blows which was given to me by a friend at school. Can remember being vaguely worried about nuclear war as a result. My Dad took us to Greenham Common on various peace marches but my mum (they were divorced) was (is) very different and didn't really tell us anything about her politics, or not that I can remember. Oooh, memories! So no, I won't force my views on my ds but I guess I will continue to tell him what they are as he asks and hope that he forms his own social conscience as he grows and understands more of the world. Tigermoth, interesting story - ds has been to India and has seen poverty first hand a bit there but I don't think he noticed it really, or if he did, he didn't mention it. Maybe like your children SueDonim - they just accept it and don't think about it too much sometimes.

I think re the donations I will go with that suggestion of finding the nearest women's refuge for the immediate box of toys. Maybe for the future, now I am working, we can afford Action Aid or something as a monthly thing. Thanks everyone!